Are Ti-doms (IxTPs) likely to give unsolicited advice?

[clockwork]

Are Ti-doms (IxTPs) likely to give unsolicited advice?

I think that Ti-s tend to give people a lot of "warnings" (about logical flaws they are making for example) and that other people view this as unsolicited advice, what do you guys think?

 

[QuickTwist]

You make a good point. The difference is that ISTPs in comparison to INTPs are more engaged in the outside world so they are not as apt to point out discrepancies-at least vocally.

[Edit] Just a theory that complements yours.

 

[Anktark]

I would say yes, since INTPs usually spot inconsistencies and irrationalities easier than other types (INTJs might disagree though). However, noticing the flaw is the easy part, there are a lot of variables used to determine whether INTP will choose to give the advice:

Do I give a damn?
Wouldn't it be better if this person were to see it (her/him)self?
Won't it be awkward?
Could s/he potentially become angry/violent at me? Would that be fun?
Am I really sure it's a flaw and not part of a complicated process that looks irrational if taken out of context? Maybe I ought to observe further?
Won't I be interfering with evolution/laws of nature by doing this?
Is it possible that I give a damn about this/him/her/it?
What if this turns out to be very funny?
Should I bother? What if the advice will be disregarded?

 

[Base groove]

Probably not as it is much more closely related to extraverted thinking so I think the ESTJ is most likely to give unsolicited advice of all types.

 

[Jennywocky]

The introversion usually leads to not much being said unless it's an activity that matters to the Ti person or they are directly asked their opinion.

It would be more typical for the Ti to just leave the group and do their own thing if they didn't agree with the rationale of what the group was trying to do, unless they were asked or expected to speak.

Ti's are Informative by nature in terms of style. So information will be provided if requested.

 

[Microtonalist]

I think it depends on the sort of unsolicited advice in question. Lifestyle or relationship advice? Probably not. I would think that that Es would be more likely to dispense that, since most INTxs wouldn't really care how other people live their lives. But inconsistencies in logic? Yes, I would think that INTxs would be more likely to correct such things.

 

[Hawkeye]

I give advice I've never taken as I've usually invented it on the spot.

In hindsight, I don't think it's ever been bad advice though. Sometimes I even impress myself. ^^

 

[clockwork]

Someone mentioned ESTJ, so Te-doms, as giving unsolicited advice. But I think Te-doms give "unsolicited commands", not advice. They will just say "sit here" for example, which is not an advice, its a command. The Ti style of that would be more like "could you sit here, because ....[insert logical advice that warns them of logical flaws if they dont sit there]....". The unsolicited advice of a Ti, is like an "unsolicited warning", never a command like the Te-style.

There is however the unsolicited advice of Fe-doms (ExFJs), they say what you "should" do, according to their moral herd-logic (known as emotion/feeling, which is totally not logical of course). It is also more command-like, but the command is more hidden than Te because its a herd-command, not a simple selfish command like Te. Fe-herd-commands can give the impression that there is some Ti-logic behind it, like you "you should sit here, because thats what we do" (giving the impression that there is probably very good Ti-logic running behind that, otherwise nobody would do it, and the statistics of everybody doing it gives high probability of good logic).

So actually Fe-s and Ti-s both do it, but the Ti-intent would be just to make sure people dont skip logic (warning the herd), and the Fe-intent would be to make sure people do what they should do (helping the herd) to be a "good herd" without actually checking the logic.

I guess Ti-advice can look like Fe-advice, and maybe some people are expecting "Fe's over-helpfulness" if you give Ti-advice and then get pissed if they find out if its not Fe but just your own logic? ("I thought you were just helping me, but its just your own logic you are trying to push!")

What is your own experience in this matter? As a Ti-dom?

 

[Base groove]

While I concur that Fe-dominants are probably equally likely to offer unsolicited advice in a momentary instance,

I would maintain that over the long-term, Te-dominants still have a higher output.

Te doesn't necessarily entail only giving commands; you should not blur the two together, since any form of {Je} is oriented towards directing and controlling others.

If anything you're arguing intent vs interpretation which probably means you just aren't interpreting things (like advice) they way they were intended.

I agree that Te-dominants are probably the best suited and most comfortable with giving commands, however, they can be motivated to help others as well and it just comes out a little grainy, because (intent vs. interpretation) feeling is inferior.

At any rate, I can't believe that Ti-doms are inclined to offer unsolicited advice because they are probably more inclined to take rather than give. There is an imaginary barrier between the mind of a Ti-dominant and the world around him, which filters everything. People are not privy to it and seldom learn how to breach its walls.

Te doesn't experience the same barrier as it is oriented toward the explicit.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I think they do, but almost only to friends or family, perhaps also receptive co-workers. The volatile character of the INTPs Fe does urge her or him to help, but the introverted nature of the dominant function requires the help to be honest and geuine. In the case of the INTP this means that it must be strictly logical, and so it is that unsolicited advice must be given with care for when the conclusions of Ti are put forth into the extraverted sphere they too just like their extraverted counterpart may upset the recipient by their nature.

Perhaps even moreso than Te advice, for dominant Ti pertains to express what is true with maximum precision, thus form and content are inseperable in its output; furthermore, Ti also lacks an anchoring in the objective sphere of extraverted judging, so it is that when unsolicited Ti advice upsets the adviced, the INTP must take the whole blame. Hence the INTP must be careful, for while hers or his Fe urges the INTP to help, its inferior nature means that such help may easily be mistaken for an insult or personal attack. And, if that happens the shaky nature inferior Fe may cause the INTP -who unconsciously strives for collective harmony of a tranquil nature- to feel both alienated and sorry.

Unless of course the person who got upset was a total dickhead idiot cunt, in which case the INTP will just pwn her or him totally with their unsolicited advice, making for total destruction and major fun.

 

[Jennywocky]

What is your own experience in this matter? As a Ti-dom?

People come to me and ask advice because they know I am understanding but honest and will tell them what they need (versus want) to hear while putting no pressure on them to do any of what I've suggeted. But they also know they probably need to ask because I just won't tell them, and they also don't expect me to get all gooey and supportive that way.

While I concur that Fe-dominants are probably equally likely to offer unsolicited advice in a momentary instance,

I would maintain that over the long-term, Te-dominants still have a higher output.

Te doesn't necessarily entail only giving commands; you should not blur the two together, since any form of {Je} is oriented towards directing and controlling others.

If anything you're arguing intent vs interpretation which probably means you just aren't interpreting things (like advice) they way they were intended.

I agree that Te-dominants are probably the best suited and most comfortable with giving commands, however, they can be motivated to help others as well and it just comes out a little grainy, because (intent vs. interpretation) feeling is inferior.

At any rate, I can't believe that Ti-doms are inclined to offer unsolicited advice because they are probably more inclined to take rather than give. There is an imaginary barrier between the mind of a Ti-dominant and the world around him, which filters everything. People are not privy to it and seldom learn how to breach its walls.

Te doesn't experience the same barrier as it is oriented toward the explicit.

In general, all that. And yes, I think we have to be care of confusing presentation with motivation in all types. Just because Ti's sound indifferent doesn't mean we don't care, necessarily. And just because Te's sound rather dominating at times doesn't mean they aren't authentically helpful/caring. They are oriented differently and present differently.

 

[Cherry Cola]

The indifferent purpose lacking sound of Ti can be just as upsetting as Te imo, it tramples on the egos of those for whom an attack on their belief system is an attack on their person. On the contrary Te is pragmatic, Te users can be douches and bossy, but they don't touch the core of other people because they are not concerned with it.

Fi doms do something similar when they judge the morphology of a persons feeling, some are simply wicked.

Ji judgements are universal and categorical, their extraverted counterparts are not. Hence, whatever social discrepancy arises following extraverted judging - the judgement itself is always circumstancial.

 

[clockwork]

I would maintain that over the long-term, Te-dominants still have a higher output.

ehmm how much % of that higher output is commands? (=99% in case of an extreme Te, haha)
a command can still be helpful, like "RUN!" if there is a truck almost hitting you.
so yes, you are right that Te-s can still be helpful!
but Te commands are usually not "explaining why". But Ti-s always explain why (and repeat it like 100x).

the explanation part is actually the helpful part , and in most people's eyes: even more helpful than those super-helpful Te commands like "Run!".

maybe i should have called it "unsolicited advice with explanation why (repeated until infinity)". Then we keep only the Ti variant of it.

Te-s just say "how", but Te-s pathologically never say why, as it diminishes the commanding force of their words (plus their scarcity-minded Si/Ni second function sees only loss in telling.)


P.S. I am a second function Ti (ENTP), and even I repeat explanations sometimes

 

[Base groove]

yeah I don't really agree with your reality.

Aside from that, why did you deliberately choose to invent fictional examples of extremely neurotic character-types in order to reiterate a point? Just wondering.

~ P.S so you're winking because you think you've just had to repeat an explanation...and I think you're reiterating/repeating yourself without correcting any of the errors in your reasoning.

 

[Cherry Cola]

How are Te-Commands selfish? :S

If you are going to call Fe commands herdy then the same should go for Te?

And why/how is it that Te commands rather than explains in contrast to Ti when it comes to giving unsolicited advice?

There might be some truth to that, but the way I see it that would be because Ti's dont give nearly as much advice as do Te's,so that when they actually do they can afford to give it in detail. Ti being an introverted function with its basis in the subject also needs more explaining by that fact alone.

Its not like Te-types can't or wont explain stuff, afaik they quite like explaining their models of effiency.

 

[Base groove]

In the context of giving commands:
​

~ Ti/Fe types might be more inclined to explain themselves when asked, however they might not be pleasant about it.
~ Te/Fi types might be less willing to explain 'why' and expect you to 'just do it.'
~ Alternatively, a Te type might be the one to explain why without being asked.
~ When a Te type does explain why, it probably is meant to be short and to-the-point and may overlook something or at least appear to do so. At this stage though one might reasonably expect to carry on a conversation regarding the logic of their commands.
~ Either type should be willing to entertain a small amount of insubordination as it is usually a catalyst for change, risk assessment notwithstanding.
~ Perception functions play a major role in all this.
~ The opposite might be more true in all cases.

When it comes to advice...
​

Te probably is more likely to deliver blunt and/or harsh advice and if the person isn't careful it can also carry overtones of sarcasm and condescension.

This is still different from giving commands in that you're not actually expected to follow it, however a TJ might think you're kind of dumb or silly if you don't follow their advice without a good reason.

A word about Te in general:
​

From time to time on this board when the topic of Te arises I have noticed a pattern that some posters seem to think TJ types won't listen to reason after they have their mind made up. This is only a little bit true some of the time. One only has to be persuasive and conclusive in their logic and be willing to share it in a linear fashion (this->this->this). Be prepared for it to get rejected if there are obvious shortcomings (therefore, not listening to reason ... your reason, that is)....

[Example]:
​

Clockwork, you betray yourself with words like 'always' and '99%' because you're wrong before you finish your sentence. You should practice evaluating your own posts more for logical errors.

You dispute the idea that Te-types deliver the most unsolicited advice by saying, oh, no that's not advice, those are commands. Advice is what Ti people do. Fallacy!

^That was unsolicited advice that might have come across as condescending. [/Example].

 

[Cherry Cola]

Te operates according to context, I think that thus when Te advice is given it is expected of the receiver to understand that the advice in question is meant to promote achievement of the goal relevant to the context, thus half of the explanation is already there to begin with.

I think that that the reason people think Te types wont listen is due to two things.

1. Te types don't have the same natural sugarcoating around their judgements as do Fe types. The two are just as controlling and just as stubborn when viewed from a detached external perspective.

2. Peoples view of Te is limited. Extraverted judging operates well, and is most noticeable, in the here and now, where it is heuristic and pragmatical. A Te type may appear stubborn and unable to listen when in a situation where action is being taken simultaenously. Imagine a Te type leading a team of co-workers to complete a project, he or she will seem rigid but that's because unless the external input can fit into his or her model of efficiency then it will slow things down and ultimately cause more harm than good. The very same input which is rejected when given in an ongoing process may be appreciated, considered, and implemented when it is given before or after.

I think I might be getting a bit vague here. So another example:

Imagine an xxTJ leading a team in an online multiplayer game. In an ongoing match the xxTJ may shoot down tactical suggestions from other players. Though not because the suggestions are bad. But because the team needs to functions as a whole and can only adapt so much in one game. Even if some player should come up with a brilliant tactic it might still be a bad idea to attempt implementation and usage of it in an ongoing game, because the inferior tactic already in use will still be more effective simply because it can be executed perfectly. While discussing tactics prior to or after a game; however, the case may be very different, the same xxTJ who appeared so stubborn and refused to listen will be much more likely to do so then.
I think this allegory can be applied to school work and many situations.

In conclusion, when people call Te types ignorant its because they only consider the behavior of the Te type in the middle of the game.

 

[clockwork]

Clockwork, you betray yourself with words like 'always' and '99%' because you're wrong before you finish your sentence. You should practice evaluating your own posts more for logical errors.

the 99% had a "haha" behind it, so i guess i dont have to explain that.

But OK I agree, I didnt really write the rest in the best way:
- I said "But Ti-s always explain why (and repeat it like 100x)", that was also my kind of stereotypical joke. (It is of course not always, but i meant: "it tends to happen a lot".)

I have some Ti-doms as friends/family who "tend to" explain/correct-me/repeat. (They dont do this to strangers though).


P.S.!!!! Maybe my weak 2nd function Ti also triggers this in a stong 1st function individual. So its not the Ti-dom, but it's me vs a Ti-dom. As I see the dynamic happening right now between you&me (assuming you are INTP now). I put out things very rough/general/abstract (too much Ne) and then the Ti-specialist comes and tells me that my Ti sucks in its detail.

 

[Cherry Cola]

the 99% had a "haha" behind it, so i guess i dont have to explain that.

But OK I agree, I didnt really write the rest in the best way:
- I said "But Ti-s always explain why (and repeat it like 100x)", that was also my kind of stereotypical joke. (It is of course not always, but i meant: "it tends to happen a lot".)

I have some Ti-doms as friends/family who "tend to" explain/correct-me/repeat. (They dont do this to strangers though).


P.S.!!!! Maybe my weak 2nd function Ti also triggers this in a stong 1st function individual. So its not the Ti-dom, but it's me vs a Ti-dom. As I see the dynamic happening right now between you&me (assuming you are INTP now). I put out things very rough/general/abstract (too much Ne) and then the Ti-specialist comes and tells me that my Ti sucks in its detail.

My experiences run contrary to yours, Ti's are less concerned with making small corrections, what they want to do; however, is pit their conclusions against others in long discussion so that flaws in their logic may be given a chance to surface.

 

[clockwork]

~ When a Te type does explain why, it probably is meant to be short and to-the-point and may overlook something or at least appear to do so.

Might it not be better, if you would simply call it "explaining HOW". (not "explaining WHY").

because HOW = to-the-point. (WHY is not).

I like this:
Ti=Why (not)
Te=How

 

[Cherry Cola]

Both use both. Yeah Te is more about how than Ti but you gotta careful not to polarize too much less you end up with a simplified, black and white understanding of the two and their relationship with one another.

 

[clockwork]

My experiences run contrary to yours, Ti's are less concerned with making small corrections, what they want to do; however, is pit their conclusions against others in long discussion so that flaws in their logic may be given a chance to surface.

You paint a picture as if they are out to find flaws in their own logic when they discuss with you (almost as if they are not out to defend their own logic?), and although that could happen as a side effect, I dont think that is their original intent

There is no preference for finding flaws in their own logic above finding flaws in the logic of others.
Ti's dont care whether its a flaw in their own logic or in the logic of the other, they will correct all flaws, of both, in equal priority. The intent is simply to correct logical flaws, regardless where they are carried. There is no preference for "mine" or "theirs". (Although the logical processor containing the "logical truth" is themselves of course (the Ti in themselves) and not the other )

 

[clockwork]

Both use both. Yeah Te is more about how than Ti but you gotta careful not to polarize too much less you end up with a simplified, black and white understanding of the two and their relationship with one another.

Why be careful?
All functions are polarized / opposites, that's how the model was designed by Jung.

I am talking about the functions (no humans where harmed during this process)

 

[Cherry Cola]

You paint a picture as if they are out to find flaws in their own logic when they discuss with you (almost as if they are not out to defend their own logic?), and although that could happen as a side effect, I dont think that is their original intent

There is no preference for finding flaws in their own logic above finding flaws in the logic of others.
Ti's dont care whether its a flaw in their own logic or in the logic of the other, they will correct all flaws, of both, in equal priority. The intent is simply to correct logical flaws, regardless where they are carried. There is no preference for "mine" or "theirs". (Although the logical processor containing the "logical truth" is themselves of course (the Ti in themselves) and not the other )

See here is the issue with your always they do both. With you even say yourself in this post; you argue against what I've written while you simulaltaenously adopt my view to a certain degree. This is what happens when you polarize too much.

No person functions by their cognitive functions alone, each has a personality and a range of experiences from which they draw on. The functions may be polarized in their abstract conceptual form in order to facilitate understanding of them as such. But if you're gonna analyze actual behavior you need to understand how they play out. Actual behavior and thinking is a lot more nuanced than the descriptions of cognitive functions are.

(http://intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=417683&postcount=2626)

 

[clockwork]

See here is the issue with your always they do both. With you even say yourself in this post; you argue against what I've written while you simulaltaenously adopt my view to a certain degree. This is what happens when you polarize too much.

No person functions by their cognitive functions alone, each has a personality and a range of experiences from which they draw on. The functions may be polarized in their abstract conceptual form in order to facilitate understanding of them as such. But if you're gonna analyze actual behavior you need to understand how they play out. Actual behavior and thinking is a lot more nuanced than the descriptions of cognitive functions are.

(http://intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=417683&postcount=2626)

I am not talking about actual behavior. I am talking about the map, the model, the hypothetical types, the "pure/extreme types". (I know the map is not the territory)

I am a systems thinker, but you seem to be personally offended by my emotional tactlessness. Also in the other thread you come accross to me as INFP since you clearly demonstrate Fi.

 

[Base groove]

(http://intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=417683&postcount=2626)

^I find this theory to be far too vague and uninformed to be used as a citation, (a mistake by you, CC)

This dude is not an expert source of information just because his ego is the size of a blimp. Pfft he won't even argue if he sees this post.

Proof

Arch. specifically claims the type is expressed in the "cortex" and personality is expressed in the "neocortex".

These are (for all intents and purposes) the exact same brain regions, as our 'neocortex' is collectively known as 'cerebral cortex' and is the grey matter around your entire brain.

According to the linked article, the cortical regions that are not structurally 'neocortex' are known as the allocortex and they are specifically the olfactory cortex and hippocampus; neither region could possibly be the center of type. Thus, any claims that type resides in the "lower cortex" is ... what was the terminology, oh yeah "vague and uninformed".

While I do not dispute that 'personality' is expressed in the neocortex, I completely dispute that type is expressed in the 'lower cortices'.

His idea is that it must be the neocortex where personality is expressed because lower animals lacking in neocortex don't express a personality. As I just wrote, I don't dispute this, however, all brains have a thalamus.

I have always favored the idea that "type" (as Arch. describes in that post), is expressed through the thalamus, which is the central processor for all consciousness. This region has (more or less) direct control over (almost) all stimulus perception/sensation and makes most critical decision as to which sections of the neocortex (or ... cortex) will be activated, in a sense, it is the brain inside of the brain. It only makes sense (to me) that it would be the thalamus that is the mediator of type.

Although "judgement/discernment" are known to be functions of the frontal lobe, it is the thalamus that mediates electrical activity in these regions. If personality is the expression of cognitive functions, the code for these functions is written in the thalamus.

~{< More reading >}~

 

[Cherry Cola]

It's vague yes and Architect is not perfect by any means. But I think it kinda gets the point across here. Plus Clockwork has already decided that I'm an INFP who's just protesting against logic with my Fi so it might be good for me to provide him with input from someone else.

Thanks for your informative post though!

 

[Base groove]

It's vague yes and Architect is not perfect by any means. But I think it kinda gets the point across here. Plus Clockwork has already decided that I'm an INFP who's just protesting against logic with my Fi so it might be good for me to provide him with input from someone else.

Thanks for your informative post though!

Clockwork , is a tricky one.

One one hand, he has demonstrated in other threads that he has advanced knowledge of the structure of the MBTI system.

On the other hand, he argues very poorly and doesn't exhibit any signs of checking for accuracy or clarity/consistency.

It's vague yes and Architect is not perfect by any means.

(...dude, this is Fe of course, clockwork has mistyped you) SO MAYBE you should not have posted it. It might come across to the general audience that you think it is a quality piece of theory that should be spread around.

But I think it kinda gets the point across here.

yeah, and "kinda" isn't good enough.

But

NO buts.

 

[Cherry Cola]

But, yes. The point is that cognitive functions aren't all there is. None of them play out the way they are described only. No person is just an MBTI type.

Furthermore, the descriptions of functions are packed with none-distinctive criteria, abilities which all people possess. Take Si, everyone is aware of the bodily functions to a certain degree, everyone has a storage of facts to draw from, it's all a matter of preference and degree.

 

[Base groove]

Indeed, however, these are the more modern/popular descriptions of the cognitive functions that have been simplified for mass-consumption.

Si is a peculiar example to use because of all the functions it is the one that the MBTI has bastardized the most.

 

[Cherry Cola]

You say peculiar I say illustrative : P

But yeah no buts anyway regarding that link.. must resist will to be stubborn and claim it was a good idea to post that link anyway.

 

[BigApplePi]

They will just say "sit here" for example, which is not an advice, its a command. The Ti style of that would be more like "could you sit here, because ....[insert logical advice that warns them of logical flaws if they dont sit there]

Yeah. Yeah. If you know what's good for you you will sit over there. If you don't I will kill you. Is that enough motive? If you sit over there it will be better for you and you will be better off. What? I should sit in your place? What for? Why do I have to sit there when I could sit here or here or here? I don't want to sit there.

There is a thumb tack on the seat. If I sit there won't you be annoyed by my scream? Hey baby. Here is a seat here right on my lap. Come try it out. Face me. One leg east; one west. I will make you scream. Fun. Fun. Fun.

Move your seat and you can win a prize under the seat next to you. 'Give me that f'n* seat you don't need it anyway you f'tard! There are so many seats here one can sit anywhere except some are better than others.

I see no sense in not sitting there unless everyone tries everyone out. Confirm with musical chairs.

As for me I may stand and then again I may not. What is your advice?


*Abbreviation for functioning.

 

[DIALECTIC]

How do you guys react / behave when you spot contradictions in your loved ones life / health and let them know (with compassionate / carefully selected words because of Fe !) what could happen if they keep up the way they do ? Do you get angry when they don't take notice because they are in self denial ?

And is there a (nasty) part of you deep down that just can't wait for what you predicted to happen indeed (because you know it is logically going to happen for sure), #1 to be proven right again, #2 for them to realize you were right and they were not and they just messed their life up and the people around them indirectly also, and all they had to do is listen and act accordingly for once in their life ? I must confess i have that (nasty) part in me... Do others do too ?


ALSO: have you ever noticed than people giving YOU unsolicited advices are people whose life is a lot more messed up than yours right now and the reason your own life is slightly messed up in the first place is directly (or indirectly) because theirs is totally fucked up !

So in fact the advices they are giving you now are advices they should have given themselves many years ago when their life then could still have been bettered and yours wouldn't have gone they way it did ! All in all you are still much better off than them which makes you realize they live in their denial...

 

[QuickTwist]

How do you guys react / behave when you spot contradictions in your loved ones life / health and let them know (with compassionate / carefully selected words because of Fe !) what could happen if they keep up the way they do ? Do you get angry when they don't take notice because they are in self denial ?

And is there a (nasty) part of you deep down that just can't wait for what you predicted to happen indeed (because you know it is logically going to happen for sure), #1 to be proven right again, #2 for them to realize you were right and they were not and they just messed their life up and the people around them indirectly also, and all they had to do is listen and act accordingly for once in their life ? I must confess i have that (nasty) part in me... Do others do too ?


ALSO: have you ever noticed than people giving YOU unsolicited advices are people whose life is a lot more messed up than yours right now and the reason your own life is slightly messed up in the first place is directly (or indirectly) because theirs is totally fucked up !

So in fact the advices they are giving you now are advices they should have given themselves many years ago when their life then could still have been bettered and yours wouldn't have gone they way it did ! All in all you are still much better off than them which makes you realize they live in their denial...

All I see are contradictions with people. I generally just try to use my Ti to articulate but Fe is also a possibility. I have no clout over my "loved ones" so I really only bring something up if they have done the same to me. My natural reaction is to think "fuck you I am not going to do whatever you tell me," but then again I am sorta trapped living with them (its more complicated than just moving). I do get angry when they don't listen but don't blame their not wanting to change on just denial.

I mostly feel apathy when they don't "do as I say." Fighting to be proven right is a losing battle.

People who frequently give advice when it isn't asked for usually have some sort of power trip or ego problems.

I don't however throw a pity party and say "Why me?" Its unproductive and really serves no purpose. No doubt if they were a little more concerned with things that actually mattered when they were younger it would've made my life a whole lot easier. For example, if my parents would have put away some money for me to go to college when I got older and made education a priority in the family while not being overly commanding in their approach for me to value education perhaps I would be, or would have already gone to a traditional university. My family is very dysfunctional regardless of what their faith is (which in a lot of way I view as a coverup). While I'm ranting I might as well just get it out. My dad was a bastard son who never really learned how to teach his children what was truly important and my mom is a freaking-no-consistency-at-all-lunatic. They claim they have found God but their behavior is not even close to what I would associate with being Christian.

 

[clockwork]

Yeah. Yeah. If you know what's good for you you will sit over there. If you don't I will kill you. Is that enough motive? If you sit over there it will be better for you and you will be better off.

=Te style, commanding

What? I should sit in your place? What for? Why do I have to sit there when I could sit here or here or here? I don't want to sit there.

=FiNe (INFP) style, opposing(Fi) & seeing possibilities of here&here&here (Ne) and those possibilities are secondary to the primary objective of opposing (so FiNe/INFP and not NeFi/ENFP) (unless the ENFP would just be trolling around for fun).

There is a thumb tack on the seat. If I sit there won't you be annoyed by my scream?

= Fe, because its about not annoying (thus helping) the other

Hey baby. Here is a seat here right on my lap. Come try it out. Face me. One leg east; one west. I will make you scream. Fun. Fun. Fun.

=Se style, fun fun fun joy joy joy

Move your seat and you can win a prize under the seat next to you.

=Ti Style, because its conditional (reasoning), maybe Ne&Ti-combo style since its about a possibility and also thinking optimistic that the listener will be this optimistic as well.

'Give me that f'n* seat you don't need it anyway you f'tard!

=FiSe Style. Fi because its opposing, and self-destructive (not-T) because its not good for your self-image to use bad words, its emotional drama of taking the self down in the battle. And secondary its Se and not Ne, because its about taking something small/local/tangible/in-the-moment serious (Ne would space-out beyond it).

There are so many seats here one can sit anywhere except some are better than others.

= unknown, maybe Ni style because its instant abstract perception without step-wise reasoning.

I see no sense in not sitting there unless everyone tries everyone out. Confirm with musical chairs.

=Ne style, keep options open until last minute, last minute = confirm by perception/real_life


P.S. So which ones fall into the definition of unsolicited advice?
(I say: Ti and Fe only)

 

[clockwork]

Clockwork , is a tricky one.

One one hand, he has demonstrated in other threads that he has advanced knowledge of the structure of the MBTI system.

On the other hand, he argues very poorly and doesn't exhibit any signs of checking for accuracy or clarity/consistency.

I think you are detecting my weakness in Ti. I am only 2nd function Ti (I am NeTi / ENTP). It's probably my Ne-language, which is only abstractly/globally right, but of course wrong in detail, as I am blind to detail. Especially when posting here quickly, I am prone to show such. (The ENTP is always in a hurry and will fix that later, but "not now").

INTPs are much more meticulous in their logical reasoning rants. INTPs take careful steps of logic, ENTPs skip steps and take leaps (=take logically-insane risks to speed things up ).

 

[QuickTwist]

Yo' Ne is out of control yo. Think, reflect, act.