Anyone grow any feelings?

[DrSketchpad]

So, recently (over the past few months) I've experienced a genesis of sorts of feelings, in general after thinking long and hard after carrying the naive notion that emotions had no place in a squeaky clean rational mind of mine. This was because I thought that emotions clouded my perception and that it would lead me to start basing judgement on my personal feelings.

... Then I had an epiphany ... At a very fundamental level I realized that I have emotions, (duh) however, I thought If I have emotions that are the base reason I have a sense of significance to any of the things I can think about at all, shouldn't I put them at a higher priority? Also, at a fundamental level I realized if I feel good when I'm happy wouldn't it be cool if I made a point to make giving any positive feelings to others? Of course I wasn't a sociopath before hand; I had the emotions that other people did, I just didn't ever allow them to be a part of my life, y'know? I realized I could let emotions be apart of my consciousness and still come to sound conclusions.

Needless to say, I still feel uneasy with things that are obviously trying to alter my emotional state. I seriously can only listen to a handful of music without feeling like I'm being fed a bunch of bullroar. Same with a lot of people.

So my questions are should you wish to share your thoughts(Especially other INTPs):

Is this just my Fe developing all the sudden?

Has anyone else had any experience comparable?

Was I just an asshat before?

Gush your insight plz

EDIT: missing word

 

[Jennywocky]

Feelings actually are a source of information -- they tell you how you are responding to whatever you're engaging at the time. (Love, loathing, like, dislike, desire, indifference, peace, pain, etc.)

They can also provide "warning messages" to let you know when your boundaries are being violated, just as your body provides warning messages to let you know when you have been injured in some way.

Emotions can also tell you the state of your body. Are you tired? Hungry? Sick? Strong?

I think intellect is a little more cut-and-dried, the problem with feelings is that they tend to be so damnably fuzzy and stemming from multiple sources, so you can't necessarily unravel them completely. There's also the penchant for detachment for making decisions, for INTPs... which works great for impersonal topics and studies... but notice how we have a hell of a lot of trouble determining our own desires, wants, goals, life plans, life contentment, etc. Why?

Because emotions actually are USEFUL when it comes to us determining what makes us HAPPY.

So basically, emotions can be your friend as long as you learn when to listen to them and how much. They can help us actually enjoy life and be motivated to accomplish things of value to us, who to befriend and who to avoid, who to marry, what jobs excite us, etc. I think a lot of the INTP existential angst can arise when we squish our emotions down so they no longer have ANY voice in our heads. We need some degree of them in order to guide our personal (rather than impersonal) decisions.

 

[DrSketchpad]

I think intellect is a little more cut-and-dried, the problem with feelings is that they tend to be so damnably fuzzy and stemming from multiple sources, so you can't necessarily unravel them completely. There's also the penchant for detachment for making decisions, for INTPs... which works great for impersonal topics and studies... but notice how we have a hell of a lot of trouble determining our own desires, wants, goals, life plans, life contentment, etc. Why?

....

I think a lot of the INTP existential angst can arise when we squish our emotions down so they no longer have ANY voice in our heads. We need some degree of them in order to guide our personal (rather than impersonal) decisions.

Totally agree with you, I just wish I'd realized it sooner so I'd have has more time to think about it.

It was a weird feeling of relief (?) I had after the epiphany. It's great how this has affected my anger, as well. Before I was irritated by everything and anything. Afterwards though, I feel I've come out a much more mellow person who has an entirety of emotions through which to think and reciprocate. I'm glad I've gotten rid of the angst haha.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Being an intp is great, but we don't have emotions and
sometimes that makes me very sad.

 

[Mordecai]

Being an intp is great, but we don't have emotions and
sometimes that makes me very sad.

Wait a second...

 

[Brontosaurie]

Being an intp is great, but we don't have emotions and
sometimes that makes me very sad.

i do not follow

 

[ddspada]

I had a similar thing happening at the beginning of 2014, around the time I first learned about MBTI.

Maybe it's not Fe being developed but rather Ti not stomping on it anymore. Don't try to bottle up your feelings but don't attempt to force them either. If they manifest, welcome them. If not, don't rush them. Crying a little with emotive movies, books or memories is normal and I dare say nigh-necessary.

Realize that emotions are more-or-less independent from feelings. INTPs have a tendency to downplay Feeling so as to potentiate Thinking; your emotions do not have to suffer. Enthusiasm for ideas, disappointment when in adverse circumstances, enjoyment of food/drink/vices, satisfaction from accomplishments and a slight warm happiness when you see friends/family are emotions that do not necessarily have a solely Feeling base. Learn to properly weigh those emotions, learn whether or not the Feeling content in each makes you uncomfortable. Learn from your emotions, period; they are an often ignored source of valuable information.

I recommend that you read this.

http://www.intpexperience.com/emotions.php

 

[k9b4]

Emotion = motivation.

Motivation is important for success in any area.

Developing your emotion is developing your motivation.

 

[Yellow]

We all have emotions. But they are hard to use productively if they are going unrecognized.

I don't think your epiphany is too uncommon an INTP. I assume that we reject emotion in reaction to the irrational behaviors we see in others. Then, we start to lose our rigidity and reintegrate our emotions as an important source of data.

At least that was my experience. (I'm still missing Anger, but I don't claim to be perfect)

 

[Cherry Cola]

I thought out a great reply to this, but then I remembered I can't think, I'm a feeler after all, so I don't have any thoughts on this or any other matter, I think, or would've if I was a thinker. Alas, at least I feel there's something really awry about the starting point of this thread.

 

[cyanical]

I've been growing feelings too. It started after a big life transition--when I moved out of my mother's household to live and study at college.

Up until then, I always felt detached from everyone, including myself. It always disappointed me because I would know, on a purely intellectual level, that I could be happier if I could open up.

Anyway, it happened. I was thrown into the fire and it hurt. I met new people in a new environment and got slapped in the face by my fears and limitations. I was depressed for the first time in my life and had no idea what to do. It was a problem I couldn't think my way out of.

Even now, almost 2 years later, it seems like I learn something about myself every day. I don't expect that process to end, nor do I want it to. I feel awake.

I wish you the best. Also, if you're like me and don't have a safe social support network (aka friend/s), you should consider speaking to a counselor/psychotherapist. Being able to feel safe while airing out your thoughts to someone in person is priceless--something I could have used much earlier in life. I got over the stigma real quick.

 

[nanook]

This culture is still raising everyone to become a robot. Many can wear their cyborg enhancement with apparent grace and stay half way human in their spare time, or any context that allows for it, but we had too much of a need for conceptual coherence, too much sensitivity to tolerate the stressful contradictions and we have tried to become fully robotic and push the human sentiments into the depth of fantasy island, to be nourished on nothing but entertainment, even though nobody asked us to go that far. Driven by the fear of not making it in this cold world, we wanted to do our very best. Also the pain and the humilation of not being allowed to have a fully human life was too strong and becoming a robot seemed like a way to shut down the pain. We have pushed the limits of implementing self-control-circuits until we felt that there might be no return, because the few remaining humans would not accept us as one of them anymore, only to notice that now we had nothing to live for at all. But there was still love for us, on the odd occasion. We were not always fully abandoned and damned. And one day we dared to move into the opposite direction and tear down the circuits once and for all. And cover up the scars with the finest organic skin replica available. But sometimes you can still hear some remaining circuits rattling underneath it.

I painted these self-portraits in the last year of school/college.

Spoiler

[bimgx=400]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G_Z9lBzbiHs/SPgdw1MhrxI/AAAAAAABRFE/9YcEXvPHpjI/w673-h871-no/self%2Btetsuo.jpg[/bimgx]
[bimgx=400]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LRwyrVoIRKs/SPgdyG-j_XI/AAAAAAABRFE/Sl00McXD6d8/w637-h871-no/self%2Baqua.jpg[/bimgx]
[bimgx=400]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VbYGwUthem4/SPgdvdwvWXI/AAAAAAABRFE/6WD5UtaEnpE/w610-h871-no/madonna%2Bcam.jpg[/bimgx]

 

[k9b4]

Spoiler

[bimgx=400]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G_Z9lBzbiHs/SPgdw1MhrxI/AAAAAAABRFE/9YcEXvPHpjI/w673-h871-no/self%2Btetsuo.jpg[/bimgx]
[bimgx=400]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LRwyrVoIRKs/SPgdyG-j_XI/AAAAAAABRFE/Sl00McXD6d8/w637-h871-no/self%2Baqua.jpg[/bimgx]
[bimgx=400]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VbYGwUthem4/SPgdvdwvWXI/AAAAAAABRFE/6WD5UtaEnpE/w610-h871-no/madonna%2Bcam.jpg[/bimgx]

I like your paintings.

The third one - is that a girl?

 

[Reality is Optional]

Getting more in touch with you emotions, in my opinion, is a way of maturing for an INTP. You are developing a side of yourself that has always been weak and in the process you are becoming a more well-rounded person. Emotions are a good thing as long as you don't let them run your life.

It was never that us INTPs don't have emotions, rather than we just aren't emotional people in general, and we so frequently detach ourselves from what things we do feel. I'm not saying this goes for everyone, I'm simply saying it's not uncommon.

I've actually had a similar experience like yours. In fact, it was only just recently that I actually got in touch with my emotions. There wasn't a specific circumstance which led me to change, I just sort of noticed it one day when I failed in something, and instead of feeling an explosive ball of anger in the pit of my stomach (which was my default emotional reaction to anything I reacted emotionally to), I felt hollowed out. I was extremely perturbed by this for a while before I thought, "This feeling...is this what sadness is?" While that was probably not the first time I was ever sad before, it was the first time that I, unconsciously, let myself experience the emotion rather than getting immensely irritated and angry. Now whenever I feel sad and I don't want to, I know how to control in and turn it into anger, and visa versa. I also know how to shut myself down from feeling anything when I don't want to bother with emotions. It's actually a very useful skill.

ANYWAY, my point is is that you shouldn't worry about it because it means you are maturing which so many INTPs never seem to do.

 

[cyanical]

This culture is still raising everyone to become a robot. Many can wear their cyborg enhancement with apparent grace and stay half way human in their spare time, or any context that allows for it, but we had too much of a need for conceptual coherence, too much sensitivity to tolerate the stressful contradictions and we have tried to become fully robotic and push the human sentiments into the depth of fantasy island, to be nourished on nothing but entertainment, even though nobody asked us to go that far. Driven by the fear of not making it in this cold world, we wanted to do our very best. Also the pain and the humilation of not being allowed to have a fully human life was too strong and becoming a robot seemed like a way to shut down the pain. We have pushed the limits of implementing self-control-circuits until we felt that there might be no return, because the few remaining humans would not accept us as one of them anymore, only to notice that now we had nothing to live for at all. But there was still love for us, on the odd occasion. We were not always fully abandoned and damned. And one day we dared to move into the opposite direction and tear down the circuits once and for all. And cover up the scars with the finest organic skin replica available. But sometimes you can still hear some remaining circuits rattling underneath it.

I painted these self-portraits in the last year of school/college.

(paintings)

It's cool how accurate this is at describing my life (figuratively). I'm glad I found this forum. Beautiful imagery and beautiful art.

 

[nanook]

You become a robot without noticing, because you think it's the human in you, who puts all that life-hacking technology to use.

The moment you admit that you have gone too far and that your spirit became too obsessed by the parameters of your artificial creation is the moment you transcend the act of obsession and attain the transcendent perspective to witness what you have done.

This is why in my paintings you see a human face (persona) that reveals the driving force of technology, as if technology was the true self underneath a human mask.

It's paradox and confusing. You have obviously become a robot and yet you are still human for being able to see that. The person in the picture is looking at himself in a mirror. In a way, that mirror represents the human spirit, that is incorruptible. I drew it, looking into the mirror, literally.

That other image is supposed to be my anima (a jungian concept, the female counterpart within the masculine psyche).


Honestly, i've tried to become human again for the last 15 years, but i can't pull it off, too much parts are missing and it's only getting worse, since what little was remaining is beginning to decay, while it's not being used. The other humans won't allow me to use it. They don't want to bear the sorry sight of it. At least my remaining circuits keep evolving.

Spoiler

"don't worry, i'm alright"

(that is Tetsuo from Otomo's Akira)

 

[Reality is Optional]

You become a robot without noticing, because you think it's the human in you, who puts all that life-hacking technology to use.

The moment you admit that you have gone too far and that your spirit became too obsessed by the parameters of your artificial creation is the moment you transcend the act of obsession and attain the transcendent perspective to witness what you have done.

This is why in my paintings you see a human face (persona) that reveals the driving force of technology, as if technology was the true self underneath a human mask.

It's paradox and confusing. You have obviously become a robot and yet you are still human for being able to see that. The person in the picture is looking at himself in a mirror. In a way, that mirror represents the human spirit, that is incorruptible. I drew it, looking into the mirror, literally.

That other image is supposed to be my anima (a jungian concept, the female counterpart within the masculine psyche).


Honestly, i've tried to become human again for the last 15 years, but i can't pull it off, too much parts are missing and it's only getting worse, since what little was remaining is beginning to decay, while it's not being used. The other humans won't allow me to use it. They don't want to bear the sorry sight of it. At least my remaining circuits keep evolving.

Spoiler

"don't worry, i'm alright"

(that is Tetsuo from Otomo's Akira)

I suppose you identify with the INTP here?

Do you believe that all people are these "robots" (for lack of better term)? If not, what kind of people aren't? What exactly is it in society that you believe is forcing people to evolve this way, and what do you think their motive is?

 

[nanook]

today i like the replicants of blade runner the most.

in my school time i used to have anger repressing idols like mr spock.
i would also like a monk like sean connery in the name of the rose.
but after my break tetsuo became my anti-hero.


the rational stage of cognition is the peak of robotic ideals.

the 60ies were perhaps the peak of modernity.
think of people with horn glasses who work as engineers and who feel that it's okay if their kids call them mister.

google images for AQAL to get a glimpse on stages.


1) impulsive 2) conformist 3) rational 4) pluralist 5) integral
(simplified model for sake of argument)

before rationality people are a bit more like puppets, often not fully human, since they are obsessed with superficially moral roles, pretending. think of sunday church people.

even before that, people can be very physical (tough), crash test dummies, warriors or hard working slaves, but in either of those earlier stages they are not yet as self-controlled as they are on the rational stages.

in all cases the primary purpose of all self-control appears to be the efficient handling of external challenges. no self control is lost on later stages, but from then on the primary purpose of control is creating a world of behavior that is subjectively pleasant. instead of merely creating artifacts, that are pleasant. that self control is not accidentally restrictive, it's the opposite, it takes care of human nature consciously.

so after rationality, people became human again, this time by choice.

learned how to party, how to be individuals, how to be sensitive and open about stuff.

hippies, yuppies and diplomats. today even putin knows his soft side.

everyone has to go through all stages.

the school system is still biased towards rationality. you are expected to be able to be at least a useful robot for society but if you can also become a socially fluent robot that would be pleasing to the new world of post-robotic culturally creatives (people who work in advertising and shit).

they want to teach you the skills of self control of all stages (be good, be independent in your performance, be reliable as a team-worker), but not the benefits of self-knowledge of all stages (have an independent sense of what is good, be independent in your life choices and choose your own team). you just have to function.


so everyone has a bit of a robot phase to move through.

during that phase

-some are too insensitive to realize that they are robotic zombies.

-some are sensitive enough to notice that their state doesn't feel right in their souls but they can't help it. (my kind)

-some are even more sensitive and notice that it's not truly them, but just something they do to themselves. they are at home in their soul and are not terribly bothered by how robotic their actions are. (i'm not talking metaphysics, soul is just a metaphor for feeling your subject deeply)

so these differences are just about individual capacities, it's neither related to typology, nor to development.

once we develop past the robotic stage, we all became aware of the shortcomings of the previous stage, through the lense of the next stage.

 

[nanook]

the movie revolutionary road is very much about breaking up with the rational stage. and coming into contact with whatever was repressed during the rational stage.

the movie space station 76 is also a nice character study.

marisa coughlan plays a borderliner, she is between the impulsive and the conformist stage, she really overdoes the conformist stage, in order to hide her impulsive nature.

Patrick Wilson plays a rational neurotic, who desires to function on a pluralist stage but doesn't know how to be himself, since he lies about his feelings, which is a conformist attachment of his. he can't admit that he is gay. he has a bit of a transformation in the movie, turning from a broken rational into a healthy rational, which should enable him, to let go of rational and explore pluralism.

liv tylor is a typical rather healthy pluralist who doesn't understand why everybody around her is so limited and she blames herself.

the characters of the movie are as simple (or easy to understand) as the physical interiors of this space ship. it's brillant symbolism. it's a clean study on purpose. critics miss the point of this movie.

 

[ABdrew]

Being an intp is great, but we don't have emotions and
sometimes that makes me very sad.

sometimes, being emotionless is freaking awesome. like, who the hell cares about someone anyway

 

[doncarlzone]

sometimes, being emotionless is freaking awesome. like, who the hell cares about someone anyway

You mean it feels awesome to be emotionless? Or it just is awesome? If the latter, how can that be determined without any preconceived values based on human emotions?

I do recognize the feeling of detachment though.

 

[Desired Username]

Under a graveyard with faint whispers I find to be comforting. Walking the streets on the outside line of thought, no connections, just endless floating.

Once tried to obtain an emotion.... it went poorly.