• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

An INTP’s Career Journey & Reflections

Architect

Professional INTP
Local time
Yesterday 10:58 PM
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,691
-->
I helped Andrew at PJ with an I.T. issue, and getting to know each other a bit he wanted to interview me for his career section. Those who know me here will have heard most of this story but here is another version.

An INTP’s Career Journey & Reflections
 

TimeAsylums

Prolific Member
Local time
Yesterday 10:58 PM
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
3,127
-->
I have been expecting this for awhile.

The article seems a bit... flat.

Perhaps it's because I've read most/all of it through you (here) before, but it feels empty. Maybe too short. (though I understand not very many people would read something "long," and might even consider this article long.

Also, it doesn't seem to have an ending (well, no shit - your life/career isn't over) but I mean a summary or bullet point list - or maybe you couldn't think of one

<shrug> I imagine people may find it helpful (interests/purpose/ just a gist / general thing)

Cheers


humongous multidimensional space that is coexisting with us. People have*no idea*about the ‘second universe’ the world is perched on. At any rate the software engineer is the creator and keeper of this world, and there’s nothing but green fields with opportunities for creativity

Nice
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Local time
Yesterday 10:58 PM
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,691
-->
The email exchange was much longer. It ended up with a three mail 'treatise' followup on the personal philosophy mentioned at the end - yeah that's probably the ending you're missing. AJ shortened it down considerably for the website (with some minor editing) to make it more palatable I guess, which is fine with me. Most people don't want too much depth.
 

manishboy

Member
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
88
-->
Location
Northern California
Thanks for sharing. Maybe you should change your name to the Architype!

I can relate to wild career swings, of needing a purpose and yet being unequipped to find it, and the constant return to the computer.
 

Inquisitor

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 12:58 AM
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
840
-->
I thought the article lacked punch. Somehow when you write on this forum, it's like you're hitting a nail on its head. Everything is direct, forceful, and clear. The article didn't capture that. I was already familiar with your story, but I like it better when you say it.

BTW, what's your take on what reckful posted regarding the functional stack being a "category mistake?" He's basically saying we should abandon 'type dynamics' and just stick to dichotomies.
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Local time
Yesterday 10:58 PM
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,691
-->
I thought the article lacked punch.

Yeah, that's AJ's touch. Like I said he needed to make it more widely readable (though I doubt anybody other than an INTP would be interested in reading it).

Somehow when you write on this forum, it's like you're hitting a nail on its head. Everything is direct, forceful, and clear. The article didn't capture that. I was already familiar with your story, but I like it better when you say it.

Maybe I'll post the full exchange.

BTW, what's your take on what reckful posted regarding the functional stack being a "category mistake?" He's basically saying we should abandon 'type dynamics' and just stick to dichotomies.

Haven't noticed, if you could summarize that would help.

Took a quick look. Probably not really understanding it, but I have trouble seeing how personally I'm not primarily a see-saw between Ti-Ne, with Si support and occasional Fe outbursts. Years earlier this would have resonated probably, but I've seen myself in too many circumstances for that kind of self deception now. Likewise for other people, do all the ISTJ's I'm surrounded with at work do much other than Si-Te? Not that I can see, that's where they live.
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Local time
Yesterday 10:58 PM
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,691
-->

Inquisitor

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 12:58 AM
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
840
-->
Yeah, that's AJ's touch. Like I said he needed to make it more widely readable (though I doubt anybody other than an INTP would be interested in reading it).



Maybe I'll post the full exchange.



Haven't noticed, if you could summarize that would help.

Took a quick look. Probably not really understanding it, but I have trouble seeing how personally I'm not primarily a see-saw between Ti-Ne, with Si support and occasional Fe outbursts. Years earlier this would have resonated probably, but I've seen myself in too many circumstances for that kind of self deception now. Likewise for other people, do all the ISTJ's I'm surrounded with at work do much other than Si-Te? Not that I can see, that's where they live.

Basically, if I understand it correctly, reckful is saying that since there is no empirical support for type dynamics ie Ti, Ne etc. but apparently loads of data backing up the MBTI dichotomies, we should basically stop talking about dichotomies as if they were the same as type dynamics. IOW, the functional stack has nothing to back it up data-wise. Obviously he said all of this in a much more nuanced way, but I think that's the gist of it.

I have noticed based on purely personal experience though that INTJs are much more data-focused than INTPs. I think this is why they probably make excellent professional scientists. Their devotion to the numbers helps them be rigorous in their research. INTPs seem to be much more comfortable with a lack of data. Whether this is because they have Ne as their objective/extraverted aux and INTJs have Te or simply due to other factors, I have no idea. In any case, it was an interesting set of posts he wrote, and I have to do some more research on this to see if type dynamics really is baloney or just suffers from a lack of empirical data/badly designed studies.
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Local time
Yesterday 10:58 PM
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,691
-->
Basically, if I understand it correctly, reckful is saying that since there is no empirical support for type dynamics ie Ti, Ne etc. but apparently loads of data backing up the MBTI dichotomies, we should basically stop talking about dichotomies as if they were the same as type dynamics. IOW, the functional stack has nothing to back it up data-wise. Obviously he said all of this in a much more nuanced way, but I think that's the gist of it.

Got it. Taking a cue from your next comment, yes I thought that this idea seemed like it was coming from the INTJ camp, and certainly reckful lists as INTJ. INTJ's will frequently try to destroy a theory on such a basis, without taking the larger view of how to save it.

I have noticed based on purely personal experience though that INTJs are much more data-focused than INTPs. I think this is why they probably make excellent professional scientists.

Bingo! In my physics career I knew two INTP's, both my advisers (note at the time I thought I was an INTJ, mistaking my Ti dominant as meaning I was a judger (I knew nothing about the functions at this time)) I was just attracted to their looser, larger outlooks compared to the rest of the facility, which was INTJ + ISTJ. Working in a department with some 40 INTJ's (and a handful of ISTJ's) is an interesting experience. Sort of a flat alternate reality. God those people were uptight.

Their devotion to the numbers helps them be rigorous in their research. INTPs seem to be much more comfortable with a lack of data. Whether this is because they have Ne as their objective/extraverted aux and INTJs have Te or simply due to other factors, I have no idea. In any case, it was an interesting set of posts he wrote, and I have to do some more research on this to see if type dynamics really is baloney or just suffers from a lack of empirical data/badly designed studies.

INTJ's are the true/hard scientists, INTP's live in the space between the humanities and STEM. Its due to Ne, you see the same thing with the ENTP's.
 

Idunno

Member
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
88
-->
I just got an email of this post not too long ago, didn't expect it to be an INTPforumer, funny.
Two things that made me laugh because I see it all the time in my school campus
1. Many INTP's are computer programmers, more so in software development. Such a stereotypical intp job imo. Ive noticed many intps go into creation and production of intangible objects(freelance artist for companies, software development) dont know why.
2. Many, many graduate students of Physics and Chemistry are INTJ's. I think its because they want to physically see their knowledge being applied, Ni-Te. As an INTJ I can immediately notice simply by their ways of wording and teaching how to spot an INTJ. INTPs not so much, they are the hidden chameleons.
Most science professors are either INTJ or INTP. The snarky ones are usually INTP, the ones that dont give a shit are INTJ. All do research.
 

Rualani

You Silly Willy
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
145
-->
Location
Somewhere in Indiana
Just completely geeked out. I have actually been following A.J.s blog for awhile. Even ended up buying the INTP book he had (still regretted it.)

In the interview on the issue of purpose and hyperfocus would you have any advice and staying consistently focused on task. I jumped into Computer Science following recommendations from this forum, and I have some difficulties getting into the material. I keep telling myself, that I gotta plow through the basics to the point where I can play with what I've learned, but... Blegh.
 

Inquisitor

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 12:58 AM
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
840
-->
Just completely geeked out. I have actually been following A.J.s blog for awhile. Even ended up buying the INTP book he had (still regretted it.)

In the interview on the issue of purpose and hyperfocus would you have any advice and staying consistently focused on task. I jumped into Computer Science following recommendations from this forum, and I have some difficulties getting into the material. I keep telling myself, that I gotta plow through the basics to the point where I can play with what I've learned, but... Blegh.

Oh man. I know what you mean. I'm studying CS right now after shifting into it from teaching. Don't ever expect to feel passionately about CS the same way you might when contemplating major social issues, helping people, or art/music ie anything even remotely associated with ENFJs. You're not supposed to.

Don't you see, if you really are an INTP, the only things that will ever make you feel alive inside are associated with your inferior Fe? Computers really don't offer that at all. But what they do offer is plenty of opportunity to exercise the neural pathways associated with your upper functions, and those are highly efficient.

In the end, what it all boils down to is job satisfaction. And that is tied (probably 80-90% I would venture) to what you do on a daily basis. I love studying and learning about various social problems, but how to make a living off of this? I guess I could become an economist, psychologist, or other social scientist. In fact, I still toy with the idea. But if you take out the Fe component and just analyze the activities that a computer programmer and economist engage in on a daily basis, I have to ask myself what I would prefer. Also, I think about what a computer programmer and social scientist produce. Seen in this light, and not paying any attention to how you feel about either of them, which is more appealing? We could start a thread about it to discuss the suitability of the social sciences/art/humanitarian careers vs. programming...might be an interesting topic.

It's tricky. I still haven't resolved the issue. But what I do know is that when I really push myself to engage in programming, I kind of enter this state of deep calm. It's boring in a sense b/c I don't get the emotional kick that I enjoy from Fe-related stuff, but it's long-term sustainable in a way that the humanistic stuff is not.
 

Rualani

You Silly Willy
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
145
-->
Location
Somewhere in Indiana
I enter that calm pretty easily when I can 'get started' with math problems. Absorbing the principles can be a bit of a pain, but once I'm solving problems... it just goes. In fact, I think I'd rather look up the principles to learn them while doing the problems.


If I were to compare that 'calm' to other jobs I've worked, I would easily say yeah, sure, just throw math problems at me if I get payed. Screw retail x.x

Noob mistakes in programming x.x
I haven't had many programming exercises yet, since the first CS course is pretty broad, and not as programming intensive. I had a week where I lost my mind over a mistake in C++ and managing class variables... I somehow came to the conclusion that if you have a value in the parameter of a constructor, then it becomes this 'innate' value of the object created... If that doesn't make sense, it shouldn't. It was ...fun... learning that it was completely bunk, and trying to figure out what horrible mental contortions I had been doing in my head. All I had to do was create a variable within the class and create functions that manipulated that variable... THAT'S ALL I HAD TO DO.
 

WALKYRIA

Active Member
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
492
-->
Seen in this light, and not paying any attention to how you feel about either of them, which is more appealing? We could start a thread about it to discuss the suitability of the social sciences/art/humanitarian careers vs. programming...might be an interesting topic.

MMh, sure programming is a cool,quiet and comfortable job for an INTP I heard. And I can see that. But, how do you ever stand out from other INTPs? Maybe I'm arrogant or narcistic, but I don't want to be another INTP "programmer"... Sure, being in an INTP friendly environment is good for a living but I think it's ultimately too easy. But why not.
I think the thing with INTP is finding a job with both Fe solicitation and Ti solicitation.
Philosophy is the first thing taht comes to mind. Intellectual jobs in general: journalism, investigator, politics( more for Te or Se people though), social scientist, psychology,....etc
 
Top Bottom