INTP Forum  

Go Back   INTP Forum > Within > School & Work

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11th-April-2017, 01:37 PM   #1
Rixus
I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
 
Rixus's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: United Kingdon
Posts: 1,143
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default "Communication" & Work

I've been in the same job for about 10 years. Just a moment ago, I had my annual appraisal and it's always the same. You know the job inside out and are brainy AF, but there's always, "I'd like you to improve on communication/telephone manner."

Apparently, my boss occasionally gets complaints from my customer's (and some times co-workers) who say that while they are on the phone to me, I noted down everything they wanted and did what they needed perfectly. But, they just didn't feel like I was enthusiastic enough. Firstly, what whiny SOB in their right mind would make such a stupidly ridiculous complaint? Why? What is the point? And is there a way to prevent this?

I've been practising switching to what I sort of call ENTP-mode; emulating ENTP behaviour for short periods of time. I've always been able to do this for speeches or meetings and such, but I need a little mental preparation. And apparently, this year my new sales person said, "when he's good, he's very, very good. Then some days he doesn't seem to have any enthusiasm and I'd rather not talk to him." Basically, it seems that switching to "ENTP-mode" and learning to do so quickly works. But I can't keep this up 24/7 (Or even 8/5).

How does one fain "enthusiasm" and make people feel like I want to do their work, rather than just doing it.

The problem is, I'm being asked to do something I fear is impossible - be more likeable. How am I supposed to do that? I'm not likeable. But I can do my job and I can solve any problem anyone in the building has (and everyone knows that and comes to me when they can't figure out how to solve the problem). How do I simply be more likeable to these people for whom competence is not the most important attribute?
__________________
Post a post post posting of this post.
Rixus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th-April-2017, 11:07 AM   #2
Cognisant
Condescending Bastard
 
Cognisant's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,158
windows_98_nt_2000firefox
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

Call it harassment, tell them you're an INTP and they should respect your personality.

They sound like the sort of gormless shits that would lap that up.
__________________
Deadlier, Sillier and more Perverted.
Cognisant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th-April-2017, 12:16 PM   #3
Minuend
people >:(
 
Minuend's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,472
windows_98_nt_2000firefox
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

Maybe what they feel they lack is the sense of connecting with you those few seconds you talk to them. People tend to want to be seen and heard, so if you don't even acknowledge they exist (in their eyes, by using the traditional body language, eye contact, words that people use etc), then they might feel you are indifferent or worst case annoyed by them (which you probably are at times).

If the problem is something like this, then it's not enthusiasm that's lacking, it's their need to feel seen and having connected with you. I can imagine people being clumsy when trying to address this issue and use the term "enthusiasm" instead. They might not even understand entirely themselves what they feel they don't get from you.

Though, I might be wrong, I don't know what's common in your work. But I do know it's possible to give the impression you really "see" a person as a human being without being enthusiastic. Sometimes it even weighs more and feels more "special" to feel seen by someone who's a bit more standoffish and serious.

You might not be a person who has a need to connect with everyone you see, but for some people this is important when addressing someone.

Anyways, how aware are you of what impression you give others? How you treat them, look at them, your body language etc? This problem might be solved if you change your approach slightly. If you want to solve it by doing that.

I guess it's kinda difficult to put in to words how you can do it. Different people might benefit from slightly different approaches. I can tell you what I tend to do when talking to people:
When people address you, stop what you are doing and give them all your attention. Be patient and listen to everything they say, even if you know what they are going to say or are in a rush. When they've finished, answer in longer sentences than yes/ no if appropriate. "Yeah, I can do that for you" gives a person more attention and recognizes him more than just saying "yes". (This probably sound hella weird, but it's more the sum of all the small things than one detail by itself). If there's an opportunity to give a slight smile, consider taking those more. Even when fake, people often can't tell. Try having an open body language, don't fold your arms, try to feel relaxed in your body. You don't have to be constantly happy or smiling, the occasional acknowledgment is fine.

Since I don't know how you behave normally, I can't give any specific tips.

I think if you generally try to understand people and be in their mind, you will more automatically behave in ways that appeal to them, because you know what they want or expect from you.

Basically, people will like you more if they feel you understand them, see them and listen to them. And often people pick up on whether you do by smaller, more subtle signs. By the same token, they pick up on whether you dislike them or are irritated by equal small signs. All these can be easily misinterpreted, so someone might think you are annoyed when you are neutral. The trick is to to use your personality and amplify the small signs that tells people you respect them. You need to approach it from your personality, if you try to behave entirely in contradiction to it, there's a good chance it wont work.
Minuend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th-April-2017, 01:47 PM   #4
Rixus
I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
 
Rixus's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: United Kingdon
Posts: 1,143
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognisant View Post
Call it harassment, tell them you're an INTP and they should respect your personality.

They sound like the sort of gormless shits that would lap that up.
If only it were that simple. "I'm INTP, so I can't be expected to be on time every day, have a tidy desk or to socialise with humans." But I don't think the working world accepts such things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuend View Post
Maybe what they feel they lack is the sense of connecting with you those few seconds you talk to them. People tend to want to be seen and heard, so if you don't even acknowledge they exist (in their eyes, by using the traditional body language, eye contact, words that people use etc), then they might feel you are indifferent or worst case annoyed by them (which you probably are at times).

If the problem is something like this, then it's not enthusiasm that's lacking, it's their need to feel seen and having connected with you. I can imagine people being clumsy when trying to address this issue and use the term "enthusiasm" instead. They might not even understand entirely themselves what they feel they don't get from you.

Though, I might be wrong, I don't know what's common in your work. But I do know it's possible to give the impression you really "see" a person as a human being without being enthusiastic. Sometimes it even weighs more and feels more "special" to feel seen by someone who's a bit more standoffish and serious.

You might not be a person who has a need to connect with everyone you see, but for some people this is important when addressing someone.

Anyways, how aware are you of what impression you give others? How you treat them, look at them, your body language etc? This problem might be solved if you change your approach slightly. If you want to solve it by doing that.

I guess it's kinda difficult to put in to words how you can do it. Different people might benefit from slightly different approaches. I can tell you what I tend to do when talking to people:
When people address you, stop what you are doing and give them all your attention. Be patient and listen to everything they say, even if you know what they are going to say or are in a rush. When they've finished, answer in longer sentences than yes/ no if appropriate. "Yeah, I can do that for you" gives a person more attention and recognizes him more than just saying "yes". (This probably sound hella weird, but it's more the sum of all the small things than one detail by itself). If there's an opportunity to give a slight smile, consider taking those more. Even when fake, people often can't tell. Try having an open body language, don't fold your arms, try to feel relaxed in your body. You don't have to be constantly happy or smiling, the occasional acknowledgment is fine.

Since I don't know how you behave normally, I can't give any specific tips.

I think if you generally try to understand people and be in their mind, you will more automatically behave in ways that appeal to them, because you know what they want or expect from you.

Basically, people will like you more if they feel you understand them, see them and listen to them. And often people pick up on whether you do by smaller, more subtle signs. By the same token, they pick up on whether you dislike them or are irritated by equal small signs. All these can be easily misinterpreted, so someone might think you are annoyed when you are neutral. The trick is to to use your personality and amplify the small signs that tells people you respect them. You need to approach it from your personality, if you try to behave entirely in contradiction to it, there's a good chance it wont work.
I think you're definitely on the right track. I'm not a very stiff or uptight person IRL, I'm quite relaxed actually. Maybe too much. That combined with the fact that I don't naturally show emotion much makes me seem disengaged and uninterested. I think this is the main problem.

I have had complaints before now when someone came in to speak to me from the other office and said I didn't seem to be listening as I was also typing. Fact is, I was typing down what he said as a note to myself to do it. But they don't like the fact that I can multitask - there's a guy opposite me who says it freaks him out when I can look at him and be talking, and typing on my keyboard at the same time about something completely unrelated. He's come over before now to check I'm not just hitting random buttons to be weird and confirmed I'm actually typing intelligibly. I try not to do it now.

I don't really get annoyed by people very much. It takes a lot of repeated actions to really urk me. Although, I do get utterly flabbergasted by the amazing stupidity some people display.

I usually get on better with more casual customers - and I have taken to responses like, "yeah, no problem. I'll sort that out for you," rather than just, "yeah." "Oh." I can't figure out the ones who like the professional demeanour, though. How can I be both friendly and warm as well professional to the degree they want? I had one who refuses to use first names and just like to be called Miss X and referred to me as Mr XX, then wanted to discuss the weather. It makes no sense to me.

What's enormously frustrating to me is that I listen to the other workers on the phone and watch them with customers. My boss has said I should for examples. But to me, the two he says are the best at it always sound peeved off and annoyed. And they sound as uncomfortable as I do, to my ears.

And also - my boss (an ISTJ, I think), has this horrendous way of calling you. He'll call over to me, "can you pop in for a second," in this stiff, irritated and cold hearted voice that sends a chill down my spine. And then it turned out to just be, "can you figure out what I'm doing wrong wit this equation?" It scares the crap into me every time he does it. So how he can tell me about manner, I don't know.
__________________
Post a post post posting of this post.
Rixus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th-April-2017, 03:42 PM   #5
Rixus
I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
 
Rixus's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: United Kingdon
Posts: 1,143
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

He was just talking to me about this again.

Apparently, the issue is that while I'm normally very good, sometimes I just don't have it. He says it's like I'm just not with it that day. But the issue is that I sound nervous and lacking in confidence. This is something people have been saying to me my whole. I know - it someone doesn't sound confident, why not do our best to make them self conscious about it at all times? Bound to help.

It's very frustrating for me, as I know (as does my boss and almost everyone here), that I'm the smartest person in the building. I have a plethora of skills that are not being utilised (although at least the software manager wants to use my programming knowledge to fix the issues with system), but that aside this issue is really holding me back. I've ended up missing out on a promotion because of it.

I did have issues with punctuality in the past, but that was years ago. And I have been known to overlook details and make mistakes - but this hasn't happened in quite a while as I've learned to slow down and not let my Ne do all the work.
__________________
Post a post post posting of this post.
Rixus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th-April-2017, 05:44 PM   #6
Minuend
people >:(
 
Minuend's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,472
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

I see. I don't know what to do about the formal people, I haven't experience with those types of people and are unsure how to imagine them. I hope by being enthusiastic, they don't mean basically kiss their ass because they're prideful people and want people to treat them 'proper' while they still behave like normal human beings because that's the only way they know how to social even when they require differently from other people

Do you only sound like you lack confidence, or do you also lack confidence?
Minuend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th-April-2017, 06:58 PM   #7
Rixus
I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
 
Rixus's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: United Kingdon
Posts: 1,143
linuxsafari
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuend View Post
I see. I don't know what to do about the formal people, I haven't experience with those types of people and are unsure how to imagine them. I hope by being enthusiastic, they don't mean basically kiss their ass because they're prideful people and want people to treat them 'proper' while they still behave like normal human beings because that's the only way they know how to social even when they require differently from other people

Do you only sound like you lack confidence, or do you also lack confidence?
Yeah, I believe they basically want their ass kissed.

Basically, as far as confidence goes, if there is a technical problem no one else can solve, I will willingly take it and make it and solve it. I know I'm very intelligent and am confident about this.

However, as far other humans go, I believe myself to be an pathetic wretched swine unworthy of human affection or any sort of normal relationship, with barely the right to speak to others. Any confidence I have in this area is pretty much completely faked. I can pretend for a while because I've had no choice but to learn to, but it's quite exhausting and I go home a remember that I will die alone and unwanted. That's the inner me that I try to hide from the world.

The thing is that outside, much of the time I can go on stage and act the part. But there will always be days when I just don't have the energy. And reviews like this don't help the matter.

It's not that I don't consider or treat other people like real people. It's kind of the opposite. They're the lucky ones who are normal. They can smile and laugh genuinely. They can understand each other and they don't have to feel like an alien walking around. I don't resent then for it - but I have to learn to keep up the act for longer. Without crashing eventually.
__________________
Post a post post posting of this post.
Rixus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th-April-2017, 07:19 PM   #8
Turnevies
Member
 
Turnevies's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 222
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

Say that you do want to become better in communication (which should be true as INTP, NT-personalities are mainly competence-driven and you even complain the others won't care enough about competence in the job). But if it was just so simple to find out on your own how it works, you would have already done it. Now, EQ is not a real thing, handling people is also just a skill to be trained.

So, I recommend you to agree with your boss, saying he is totally right and thank him for pointing these issues out. Then proceed by offering a possible solution: you suggest him to sent you to some communication training course (I had a short one in my doctoral training and it is really useful). It will be an investment of some money to him, but it will allow you to return more success and money to him on the longer term.

Meanwhile, there are many books written on how to manage people. Probably some of them will be crap, but some Dale Carnegie (How to Win Friends and Influence People) won't hurt.
If you feel in the need of some assertivity, Robert Glover (No more mr. nice guy: A Proven Plan for Getting What You Want in Love, Sex, and Life) is a good read.
Turnevies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th-April-2017, 07:24 PM   #9
Minuend
people >:(
 
Minuend's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,472
windows_98_nt_2000firefox
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

Yeah, I understand. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, all my writing is based on people wanting a certain type of behavior from other people, and how to meet that. It doesn't mean I think it's necessarily always ideal to try to meet people on their terms, or that they are always being reasonable. A lot of people just don't know how to interpret behavior that differs, so I see it more as an inevitable result of that, from which we can choose to accommodate people a bit or not, depending on the situation. There are also different degrees to how much you accommodate someone.

I actually have shit self esteem, so I can relate. But I also have this weird thing where if I notice someone judging me without knowing me or judging me based on false impressions, I will not take it to heart and rather look down on them because they are high on themselves or judge shallowly. My low self esteem comes largely from not being able to live up to own expectations and being very aware of own flaws and limitations.

Anyways. I tend to go into a conversation with the mind state where I expect people to treat me normally/ respect me or whatever word you'd use. Not in a "I demand you treat me nice", it's more of a "there's no reason people should treat me badly" kind of thing. This is one the of things difficult to explain. I'm aware of my flaws and such, but people tend to treat other people okay even when they are faulty. Like, if I meet someone I think is being an idiot, I wont treat that person badly unless he treats someone badly. If I meet someone weird, I wont treat him bad unless he's being an ass. And I go into conversations with an expectation that people wont treat me wrongly unless I do something rude first. I expect people to treat me civilly when I do so to them. If they treat me badly when I behave normally, I can internalize this as them being unreasonable. I guess what I'm saying is if someone treats a person like shit without reason, he is the one being shitty

I guess the clue is to remember other people's thinking can be faulty as well, so you needn't always worry about what they think. Some people are never satisfied or have unreasonable expectations. If you can find some sort of inner confidence despite your self esteem, then maybe you can make it work
Minuend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th-April-2017, 08:30 PM   #10
Grayman
Me^1
 
Grayman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: US of A
Posts: 3,949
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

It is about trust. Perhaps you are more wrapped up in finding answers or being right than in the needs of the person you are helping. They might be appreciative of your knowledge but be wary of your motives.
__________________
My body is just a battery for robots.
Grayman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th-April-2017, 10:10 PM   #11
Haim
Member
 
Haim's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Israel
Posts: 577
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

Fuck them, you sell them your time, but that doesn't mean you need to be emotion whore.Your mental health is more important.
Haim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th-April-2017, 07:26 PM   #12
Rixus
I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
 
Rixus's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: United Kingdon
Posts: 1,143
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: "Communication" & Work

Some interesting replies. Thanks all.

Turnevies - I may try one of those books. My instinct is to dismiss it, but I do remember a while ago I read a book about stress called Don't Sweat the Small Stuff; all about how the way you look at the little things being the key to stress management. And it was quite useful.

Grayman - Yeah, in some cases I think it may be that. I'll work on making it look like I'm trying to be on their side if you will and help them out. Thinking about it, before now I've sold work to customers before I've even given them prices with similar approaches.

And there is definitely an element of ass kissing which I'm not very good at. For example, the INFP I work with who is in good favour is expert at it. He has this way of saying, "hey Boss," when he speaks to him in an almost flirtatious manner. It's cringing. Never mind ass kissing, he sounds like he wants to perform oral sex.

Also, I'm feeling a lot better today. I optionally took on an impossible task that my manager gave up on a few years ago when we last tried it because it was too complicated. Involving extracting price lists from a massive database driven program (that doesn't work properly and even the programmers don't know how it works because it's been written and re-written so many times in various different languages [both linguistic and scripting/programming languages]) with over a hundred tables into an easy to use and accurate spreadsheet for some customers to use. Since I solved it using some obsurd maths and multi-tab sheets I'm feeling a bit more alive. A good problem to solve always helps .
__________________
Post a post post posting of this post.
Rixus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Explaining of the "Childish" and "Mature" in socionics theory darude11 MBTI & Typology Archive 5 30th-June-2011 10:06 PM
What is "up" with this recently frequent "post to be approved by moderator" delay? Words Suggestions, Questions & Feedback 6 19th-August-2010 08:00 PM
Reactions to "duty", "virtue", "citizenship", etc... Sapphire Harp The Lounge Archive 25 16th-August-2009 03:06 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:32 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Template-Modifications by TMS

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.7.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
no new posts