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Old 19th-December-2016, 05:38 AM   #1
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Default The death of cinema?

Was it common in the past to claim cinema is dead, every few years? Do today's films embrace the ubiquity of the internet, hi-tech gadgets, and cellphones, or even the popularity of nonsensical memes? Films aren't always current or accurate, but should the ones that are at least try to acknowledge what modern society is actually like? Or are memes, modern technology, and social media incompatible with the classic idea of a film? Is cinema dead?

I haven't seen many movies that were produced in the last few years but I can recall Inferno(2016), and Gamer(2009) that have these elements. The X-Files as a somewhat serious and dramatic tv show also utilized the sillyness of cellphones in one of the reboot episodes. Other than that, the rest seem to be irrelevant escapism.
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Old 19th-December-2016, 05:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

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Other than that, the rest seem to be irrelevant escapism.
Either that or grossly obvious political propaganda that is way out of touch with reality.
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Old 19th-December-2016, 06:32 AM   #3
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

Superhero movies are alright, the Deadpool movie and the recent Dr Strange for instance, it's also really interesting how they're making these movies as part of an expanded universe. So much better than yet another Batman movie with the obligatory origins scene which pissed me off to no end or the continuously rebooted Spiderman franchise.

Otherwise it depends what you're looking for and how willing you are to go looking.

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Do today's films embrace the ubiquity of the internet, hi-tech gadgets, and cellphones, or even the popularity of nonsensical memes? Films aren't always current or accurate, but should the ones that are at least try to acknowledge what modern society is actually like? Or are memes, modern technology, and social media incompatible with the classic idea of a film? Is cinema dead?
It sneaks in but you've got to understand that a director can't include a reference to say Gmail for instance without the written permission of Google and if that scene involves that Gmail account getting hacked they're not likely to give it.
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Old 19th-December-2016, 08:35 AM   #4
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

In "lights out" the dude scares this monster, that can only exist in the dark, with his cellphone, but then it goes into standby and he is attacked. Kids in the future: Mom, can i keep my cell on over night? There is something under my bed.

Shows are getting so much better. We have esoteric subjects like Westworld (selfawarness of material brains = AI) or The OA (near death + reincarnation) instead of good guys judging bad guys. There is a connection with the current cyberspace, because the internet made us aware of such subjects (creating avatars/accounts is a form of reincarnation and meta-self-awareness). I wonder if movies pick up on new subjects only after they have worked in show episodes.

Lame movies about identity theft/stalking come to mind and cell phone recorded fake documentaries/horror/action ... i could do without those. The cellphone life is so profane and movies are supposed to be escapism from profanity. Its not movies that are dead, but real life.
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Old 19th-December-2016, 03:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

Oh, Nanook . I've only seen the first episode of The OA. Now I understand what the Russian thing means and what it's all about. I didn't expect spoilers here. Although she keeps saying things about dimensions, so I'm hoping there's a bit of QMU in there too.

I was watching some of the older classic action films from the past recently. Some of the differences in technology struck me that they'd have to change. In Commando, there's a chase to get to a pay phone to warn that he's escaped. In The Matrix, they are using payphones to escape and talking on old style phone. In Terminator, the TX can access the internet, Sklynet eventually exists over the internet and that's why it can't be destroyed and of course you've got Genysys, which basically involves Sirri turning evil.

Film do evolve with technology. You may not even notice them because the items are simply things that exist all around you. It would be a boring film, though, if everyone were just sitting there playing on their phones like they do in RL.

If you want to see something that's basically an exploration of modern technology if it goes too far (near future stuff), try watching Black Mirror on Netflix. If you binge watch the whole thing, I guarantee that what happens to the pig will happen to your head.
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Old 19th-December-2016, 05:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

Black Mirror is overall pretty great. Highly recommended. It deals with the impact of technology on human lives and how it can be disruptive / monstrous despite its benefits, and its best episodes are haunting. (My favorite episodes are probably "The Entire History of You," "White Bear," the Christmas episode, and "San Junipero.")

Tech has really created some issues in story writing, though.

I mean, imagine the detective story. Before you had the possibility of making circumstantial cases through intuitive and deductive means, and cases could be tricky.

Nowadays, they just do a forensic search of the premises and if you've left your DNA at the scene and you're already in the database, case generally solved. It's moved to a different type of detective work, and it's more about collecting the right physical evidence if you can. A globalist also can't compete with the sheer professional skill of a specialist in their area, and the world now has specialists in many different categories.

The whole cell phone thing, too -- people can be tracked, people don't need experts or books because they can Google stuff, they can be reached immediately, and so on. Sometimes it's easier to go back in time in terms of setting up stories because you can ignore all of the available tech and get back to a basic story versus having it disrupted by tech devices.
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Old 19th-December-2016, 05:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

shinji iawi's A Bride for Rip Van Winkle
hmm a lot of japanese and korean films feature social media as an integral part of the characters' lives i guess?

most films centered around social media seem to tell cautionary tales...i can see why i guess. resonance, empathy and enthrallment are things that make a film good, its difficult to retain these qualities if characters are communicating behind screens or frequently recycle popular internet culture symbols instead of express themselves
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Old 19th-December-2016, 05:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

The Christmas Episode was probably my favourite. I loved the way they used The Block to show not only a metaphor for needlessly blocking people electronically instead of resolving a problem; but as a basic show of how many problems can be solved with a little simple communication. The whole 5 years could have been avoided just by telling the guy - and no one thought to.

Again, the Entire History Of You was also great. Probably poignant particularly for us INTP's who turn stuff over in our heads over and over and drive ourselves insane. Though not as insane as him.

San Junipero was the only feel good episode they ever did. That was an excellent love story.

My other favourite was Nosedive. I liked the ending.
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Old 19th-December-2016, 07:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

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My other favourite was Nosedive. I liked the ending.
I really liked the concept (and it starred Alice Eve, Bryce Dallas Howard, and Cherry Jones -- more great plusses), but it felt a little overworked. The very end was kind of amusing.

The thing is, we are not far from there already. Social approval is not tied to our financial credit rating right now, but a lot of the dynamics already exist as-is on social networks (which is what made it felt relevant). It was kind of unnerving to watch unfold.

Yeah, San Junipero was probably one of the happiest endings in the whole series. That was a nice change; what I really liked about it was the raw honesty, BOTH of them were right at different times in the narrative, and very raw and upfront about their life experiences towards the end. Yorkie had one valid life experience; Kelly had another. And they both needed to hash that out if they were to proceed. Kelly also showed a remarkable amount of courage in working through her various losses and making decisions about her future. It was so damned real.

Plus, I'm a long-time MMO'er / virtual platform person. I've had some virtual friendships before and have had to navigate waters like that. It's always fascinating how you can be whoever and whatever you want online, even if your real life identity might be very different; but that doesn't make the connection any less real in some ways... it's just that people don't necessarily know "all of you" even if they know you in the system and at some point there can be an expansion/conversion into a RL relationship of some kind.

[Plus... nostalgia. my teen years were spent in the 80's. Heh.]



.... so thematically storylines can be opened up for movies and shows based on ongoing tech, even as other avenues are kind of shut down. Plus you have this constant battle between corporate and artistic interests since the production companies and distributors control the movie release and want to recoup their investments... somehow you have to tailor the artistry to make money or you find opportunities with your connections to bankroll projects that are covered by more financially successful ventures.
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Old 19th-December-2016, 07:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

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I really liked the concept (and it starred Alice Eve, Bryce Dallas Howard, and Cherry Jones -- more great plusses), but it felt a little overworked. The very end was kind of amusing.

The thing is, we are not far from there already. Social approval is not tied to our financial credit rating right now, but a lot of the dynamics already exist as-is on social networks (which is what made it felt relevant). It was kind of unnerving to watch unfold.

Yeah, San Junipero was probably one of the happiest endings in the whole series. That was a nice change; what I really liked about it was the raw honesty, BOTH of them were right at different times in the narrative, and very raw and upfront about their life experiences towards the end. Yorkie had one valid life experience; Kelly had another. And they both needed to hash that out if they were to proceed. Kelly also showed a remarkable amount of courage in working through her various losses and making decisions about her future. It was so damned real.

Plus, I'm a long-time MMO'er / virtual platform person. I've had some virtual friendships before and have had to navigate waters like that. It's always fascinating how you can be whoever and whatever you want online, even if your real life identity might be very different; but that doesn't make the connection any less real in some ways... it's just that people don't necessarily know "all of you" even if they know you in the system and at some point there can be an expansion/conversion into a RL relationship of some kind.

[Plus... nostalgia. my teen years were spent in the 80's. Heh.]



.... so thematically storylines can be opened up for movies and shows based on ongoing tech, even as other avenues are kind of shut down. Plus you have this constant battle between corporate and artistic interests since the production companies and distributors control the movie release and want to recoup their investments... somehow you have to tailor the artistry to make money or you find opportunities with your connections to bankroll projects that are covered by more financially successful ventures.
Well, that's what makes the series interesting. It all seems to relevant when compare it to how we use modern technology. It's the social media obsession - how many friends and how many likes and shares seems important. But you can chose to just not care, and that's the point of that. You'll be happier when you don't care about that sort of thing; because it's not important. It's not life or death and it's not your job (unless you have to use Linkedin, but thank God I don't have to).
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Old 19th-December-2016, 09:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

I'd draw a line between entertainment and "cinematography". I consider the former to entail pretty much anything that doesn't at least try to show some truths or thoughts on our condition or have us reflect on the nature of provided scenes or ideas.

These days, film directors have researched their demographic and they know what kind of entertainment is going to sell. So there's a constant production of very similar works and adaptations featuring the same paradigms and archetypes that appeal to the mass imagination. Hence the constant output of mediocre, albeit abundant and well-earning films every month.

Certainly there are many creators of both kinds of films and the finer distinction and preference for either kind is up to the viewer's taste.

In higher-budget animation, video games or fiction literature I see very much the same rehashing going on. It's effective and it's good enough to sell, so there's no deterrent to making them. Given the volume, they certainly tend to outshine and cover up the gems of their respective industries.
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The thing is, we are not far from there already. Social approval is not tied to our financial credit rating right now, but a lot of the dynamics already exist as-is on social networks (which is what made it felt relevant). It was kind of unnerving to watch unfold.
Meanwhile they're prototyping social media credit/status ratings in continental China.
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Old 19th-December-2016, 10:13 PM   #12
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Meanwhile they're prototyping social media credit/status ratings in continental China.


sorry. Must have been something I ate, err, read.
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Old 19th-December-2016, 10:39 PM   #13
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Black mirror seems like an interesting series, I'll look into it.
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Old 23rd-December-2016, 03:23 AM   #14
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Default Re: The death of cinema?


Recently found out about this movie, didn't believe it at first but it's definitely real.


fwiw I at least respect the acknowledgement of modern culture.
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Old 23rd-December-2016, 03:30 AM   #15
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Recently found out about this movie, didn't believe it at first but it's definitely real.


fwiw I at least respect the acknowledgement of modern culture.
The eyebrows are charming, yeah?
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Old 23rd-December-2016, 05:00 AM   #16
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

is that a hershey's kiss?
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Old 10th-June-2017, 05:12 AM   #17
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Dystopian perhaps, though Black Mirror was what I was searching for, thanks.

I guess where I was going with the thread was that I think we're in the middle of a transition with all the technology we have and I find the absence of a critical reflection of our technosociety in the media a little disturbing.
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Old 10th-June-2017, 06:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

You have the mirror by tarkosvki and in the other hand interstellar or Unfriended. Art dies as it gets swallowed by codes and numbers. Same happens for music. You have Opeth and then you have Animals as leaders. For me mathematics are not art. Sorry.
Technology is not art. Sorry. Technology can be entertaining tho. And serve art to a certain degree.
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Old 22nd-July-2017, 01:24 AM   #19
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

cinema today is more interested in trends and shit memes
most movies don't have the element of a good story , all the producers focus on is only a hot girl and a fit chad , no story
it takes year or two ، and even more to see a "good movie" again
the last movie i watched that had a true script was whiplash , and it was 2014
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Old 22nd-July-2017, 01:46 AM   #20
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

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is that a hershey's kiss?
It's a poop.
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Old 22nd-July-2017, 02:50 AM   #21
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Default Re: The death of cinema?

A lot of the tv series just seem a lot more interesting than cinema now. A movie has around two hours to fit some kind of story, which usually means character development gets sandwiched or removed or the story follows some kind of cliche progression (like Baby Driver had the love interest intertwined with the criminal aspect of what he was doing, but it felt cheesy and cliche and forced, to me anyway).

But television can take all the time it needs and go on for seasons and seasons. I think television is better for telling intricate stories, while cinema is good for fast-paced plots. So I'm not sure it is dead, but television just seems a lot more fun to watch and follow over going to see a movie.
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Old 23rd-July-2017, 09:24 PM   #22
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Commercialism corrupts and destroys creative output, what else is new?

Cinema is not dead, but you have to look past the torrent of comercial stuff to find it. The problem is two-fold: production expenses are high, and distribution is equally hard, the old big theater big screen system has high barriers of entry., so capitalists aren't interesting in taking too many risks when same old tropes work fine for their ROI. Directors and screenwriters that want to do different stuff usually struggle for years making minimalist, low budget stuff and barely making it back, hoping to win some prize and get noticed, hoping to get decent budgets and not too many compromises. Unless they're rich or something.

The advent of digital filming and digital distribution like Netflix has actually been a boon to small "independent" film-makers, not unlike the advent of Steam has done to videogame developers. Not that all of them are good, but at least the good ones have a chance.
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