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Old 4th-October-2013, 03:51 AM   #1
sixohs
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Default INTP as Sales Person

Hello fellow INTP's.
I am brand new to this forum, I have come across it a few times during the last month when I found out I was an INTP. Like a lot of people, everything clicked after taking the MTBI personality test. I hate long posts so Ill try to keep this short, and I do apologize if there is another thread in this forum covering the topic.
Most of my life I have realized I was the odd one out, not necessarily in a negative way
but I always felt out of place. I was bullied briefly, but after about 15 never dealt with it again. I joined the Army at 18, and that did not last long, I chaptered out 6 months in.
My parents are strong Christians, so growing up was quite a battle, as I was constantly in and out of my house, staying with friends, and living from place to place.
At this point, my post has no connection with the title but I want to know if any other INTP shares these similar experiences.
The true problem that has been consuming my head is the "connecting" with people part that seems to be hardest.
Im 23, I worked for Clear Internet as a sales rep and although I was never a top performer I was able to get by as an average sales person. The thing that really ticked me,
was the fact it took so much effort on my part just to get by.
People who I knew were not the brightest, would bring home pay checks 3 times the amount of mine.
Now I just started a job working for Carnival Cruise Lines as a sales representative, and I noticed this as well. Thats when I realized something was not adding up, if being outgoing was all I had to do, why were people (whom I considered dull) doing it so much better than I was?
Then it made sense, I concluded I am not able to make the kinds of connections with strangers that other people were. Not as fast, not as strong, and definitely not as smooth.
First, I thought it was IQ.
I took an IQ test (a real one), Im at 115.
So although Im no genius, Im more than capable enough to do anything I want.
Then I took a personality test, read the description, and my entire life made sense.
Is there any INTP here who is a successful sales representative that could shoot me some advice? I don't want to quit, because I want to sharpen my skills with people in general. But I feel like I have hit a brick wall, I try everything I can think of but I can only be mediocre at best. I guess the real question here is, as an INTP is it possible to master the art of persuasion, rapport and connecting?

Thanks.
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Old 4th-October-2013, 04:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

Dude, in general, sales is probably in the top 3 worst possible roles for the typical INTP.

Just saying...

...and 115? That is not something to not be proud of.

You want ideas on careers to try and plug yourself into?
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Old 4th-October-2013, 05:44 AM   #3
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

Find your inner Fe. Breath deeply and let it speak.
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Old 4th-October-2013, 06:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

i was in telemarketing once

they played indoor odd-one-out football during 5 minute breaks every hour

those people are fucking screwed

it's not about being able to connect with strangers per se; it's more about being a bland standard non-person whose aural presence couldn't possibly produce discomfort
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Old 4th-October-2013, 07:03 AM   #5
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixohs View Post
I guess the real question here is, as an INTP is it possible to master the art of persuasion, rapport and connecting?
Generally speaking, you can only accomplish what you are motivated to accomplish. Persuasion takes practice, and rapport/connecting work best when you stop thinking and let your intuition and emotions take over.
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Originally Posted by sixohs View Post
I took an IQ test (a real one), Im at 115.
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Originally Posted by DrGregoryHouse View Post
...and 115? That is not something to not be proud of.
I don't understand the obsession with IQ.
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Old 27th-October-2013, 06:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

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Originally Posted by sixohs View Post
I guess the real question here is, as an INTP is it possible to master the art of persuasion, rapport and connecting?
Yes. I've done it for the last three years and have experienced much success. Much success. Of course, you have to approach it in a systematic fashion and be analytical about it - it comes with the NT territory. Eventually, I had visitors to our winery tell me I had a beautiful soul, on one occasion, and that kind of thing really opens the wallets.

Of course, I also had a huge meltdown in which I ran away from some customers, sobbing "I just can't do it anymore" over and over while holding my face in my hands and crying. I found this to be an unhappy position for a man about to turn 33 and trying to support a family.

Depending on how strongly you prefer introversion, you may wish to run from sales as if pursued by legions of demons.

Now, consulting is a different ball of wax. If you can advise people based on your impressive level of expertise in a given field, well that's right in the INTP wheelhouse.
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Old 27th-October-2013, 08:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

First, welcome sixohs.

Quote:
Thats when I realized something was not adding up, if being outgoing was all I had to do, why were people (whom I considered dull) doing it so much better than I was?
There are other factors to consider aside from being intelligent and/or outgoing such as having good professional networks.

Quote:
I guess the real question here is, as an INTP is it possible to master the art of persuasion, rapport and connecting?
Yeah I think any average personality type could try to be adept on those skills provided they work hard enough.
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Old 13th-December-2016, 11:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixohs View Post
Hello fellow INTP's.
I am brand new to this forum, I have come across it a few times during the last month when I found out I was an INTP. Like a lot of people, everything clicked after taking the MTBI personality test. I hate long posts so Ill try to keep this short, and I do apologize if there is another thread in this forum covering the topic.
Most of my life I have realized I was the odd one out, not necessarily in a negative way
but I always felt out of place. I was bullied briefly, but after about 15 never dealt with it again. I joined the Army at 18, and that did not last long, I chaptered out 6 months in.
My parents are strong Christians, so growing up was quite a battle, as I was constantly in and out of my house, staying with friends, and living from place to place.
At this point, my post has no connection with the title but I want to know if any other INTP shares these similar experiences.
The true problem that has been consuming my head is the "connecting" with people part that seems to be hardest.
Im 23, I worked for Clear Internet as a sales rep and although I was never a top performer I was able to get by as an average sales person. The thing that really ticked me,
was the fact it took so much effort on my part just to get by.
People who I knew were not the brightest, would bring home pay checks 3 times the amount of mine.
Now I just started a job working for Carnival Cruise Lines as a sales representative, and I noticed this as well. Thats when I realized something was not adding up, if being outgoing was all I had to do, why were people (whom I considered dull) doing it so much better than I was?
Then it made sense, I concluded I am not able to make the kinds of connections with strangers that other people were. Not as fast, not as strong, and definitely not as smooth.
First, I thought it was IQ.
I took an IQ test (a real one), Im at 115.
So although Im no genius, Im more than capable enough to do anything I want.
Then I took a personality test, read the description, and my entire life made sense.
Is there any INTP here who is a successful sales representative that could shoot me some advice? I don't want to quit, because I want to sharpen my skills with people in general. But I feel like I have hit a brick wall, I try everything I can think of but I can only be mediocre at best. I guess the real question here is, as an INTP is it possible to master the art of persuasion, rapport and connecting?

Thanks.
Old post I know, but figured if I gave my experience it would be helpful to anyone doing a google search and stumbled upon this post.

Similar experiences you asked about earlier: I was heavily bullied, no army, and did move around a lot within my family.

To answer your last question, yes it's possible to master the art of persuasion, rapport and connecting.

I was a programmer for 7 years, decided I was done with it, spent several years pushing myself outside my comfort zone, started a career in sales, at first made zero sales, then became a top performer. I close almost every sale and love building real relationships with people, that strong emotional connection, caring about them, being highly ethical and putting them in a better place. I find it somewhat hilarious that I'm currently scoring as a ENFJ.

How? I did it by learning to use cognitive functions I was previously blind too. It feels like taking a leap of faith, you just experience it, if you try to figure it out, well you're using your mind like you always have instead of just being something you've never been before. I do remember analyzing the hell out of each function until it would happen though.

Another helpful tip from my ENTJ trainer, just do this when on an appointment:
step 1: Warm up. Ask them questions about (H)ome, (E)mployment, (L)oved ones, (P)olicy / (P)roduct, in that order.
step 2: Fact Finder. Ask them questions to figure out how you can best help them.
step 3: Presentation. Do the same consistent presentation that has been proven to work by top agents.
step 4: Paperwork.
step 5: Warm down. The same as step 1, don't dart for the door.

It really really helps if you can choose to genuinely want to help someone, can put them way ahead of yourself, your desires, your needs. And absolutely don't be a know it all. Just ask questions, or do small talk and actually pay attention and really genuinely care about their emotions or situation.
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Old 13th-December-2016, 11:50 AM   #9
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I'm an excellent salesperson, just lie your ass off to the person who is about to give you their payment info and act genuine.
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Old 13th-December-2016, 12:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGregoryHouse View Post
Dude, in general, sales is probably in the top 3 worst possible roles for the typical INTP.

Just saying...

...and 115? That is not something to not be proud of.

You want ideas on careers to try and plug yourself into?
Very true..

You can't even get an education with an IQ of 115 unless you want to be a doctor or something stupid like that.
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Old 13th-December-2016, 06:33 PM   #11
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I'm an excellent salesperson, just lie your ass off to the person who is about to give you their payment info and act genuine.
What keeps you going? Why wake up the next day and do it all over again? I use to do this, but I became pretty depressed and I couldn't figure out why. I blamed existence instead of myself. It about killed me.

Life got a lot better, worth experiencing and being, after I started taking a higher road.
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Old 13th-December-2016, 10:29 PM   #12
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What keeps you going?
I got tiger's blood son

Quote:
Why wake up the next day and do it all over again?
Cuz when you're winning like I am every moment is worth it.

Quote:
I use to do this, but I became pretty depressed and I couldn't figure out why.
Seeing Ben Franklin's face multiple times throughout the day can quickly cure depression.
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Old 13th-December-2016, 11:44 PM   #13
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My job is very heavily linked to sales. In that I work out and negotiate the prices, which these days is becoming the bigger role, really. Early on I found it very hard to build report with customers and frequently got pulled up on telephone manner and such. I found, though, I could use my ease of understanding the technical stuff to speak to them. And when I do that, they seem to feel confident in my abilities and in me telling them what they needed. I can even impress them with some nicely laid out spreadsheets and fancy equations and sell shit at higher prices because it impresses them.
Remember - you may be dealing with feelers and extroverts who can out socialise you. But you can't out technical and INTP. Use that. It's our biggest strength. Plus I use my lack of emotions to my advantage - you can shout and scream at me all you want. Give me all the sob stories or mind games you want. I won't react because I don't particularly care.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 12:02 AM   #14
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My job is very heavily linked to sales. In that I work out and negotiate the prices, which these days is becoming the bigger role, really. Early on I found it very hard to build report with customers and frequently got pulled up on telephone manner and such. I found, though, I could use my ease of understanding the technical stuff to speak to them. And when I do that, they seem to feel confident in my abilities and in me telling them what they needed. I can even impress them with some nicely laid out spreadsheets and fancy equations and sell shit at higher prices because it impresses them.
Remember - you may be dealing with feelers and extroverts who can out socialise you. But you can't out technical and INTP. Use that. It's our biggest strength. Plus I use my lack of emotions to my advantage - you can shout and scream at me all you want. Give me all the sob stories or mind games you want. I won't react because I don't particularly care.
Now I know you are INTP.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 12:05 AM   #15
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Now I know you are INTP.
I play to my strengths.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 12:08 AM   #16
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I play to my strengths.
You use complex language that is hidden by ambiguity as well.

I caught on to the fact that you were much more sly than meets the eye a few days after you joined. Its prolly old news though.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 07:01 AM   #17
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I caught on to the fact that you were much more sly than meets the eye a few days after you joined.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 08:10 AM   #18
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I'm certain I don't know what you both mean.




<= Is very innocent.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 05:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

There's also another side of the coin. When we have to deal with sales people. This is what happened when I went to buy a new car a few months ago.

I pull up in my reliable old Ignis. She's so reliable she'll probably outlast the Sphynx, but I need something bigger. And a bit smarter, TBH. My mother is tagging along because she's looking at getting a new one in a couple of months too and is going to leave me to it while she looks around.
It's a weekday and I have the day off. It's quiet and I can't see another customer, but there's a whole pack of saleswolves ready to jump. The lucky who's turn it appears to be stands up. He's not sure which one of us wants to buy something. I answer his greeting, and look a little mumbley. These dull extroverts always think that means weakness, especially as I have my mother with me. I look like easy prey.
He asks what I'm looking for. I straighten up and tell him what I need. Then real off what deposit I have and how much in finance I can afford (or want to pay, I should say), plus the part ex. I was too clear for someone who looks shy, so he's taken off balance. He didn't expect that. It doesn't fit the script or how he's already sized me up. (You might say you shouldn't have laid your cards out like that. But I sell shit, I have a better plan than basic haggling.) The part ex he offers me is a joke, so I'm gonna need to make up for that.
He takes me over to the cars that fit my description and points one out, meanwhile my mother wanders off to drool over some Audi's. It's OK. It's what I asked for but I don't like the colour. And it's a rather basic model with a mere 1.6 petrol engine. But, I do like the one next to it. It's got a bigger TDI engine, parking sensors, bluetooth and a few other toys the car he's offering me does not. I'm sold on this lovely black one, but this dull looking grey thing he's trying to sell is just pants.
Now just a little manipulation...
I look longingly at the other car. Then go and sit in the car he's offering me. Look at me. Look how disappointed this face is. I look a little defeated. You did this. Now your sale is not happy. Start giving him, "ah, I don't know." And glance at the other car. I might have to slump my shoulders and start walking if he doesn't get it soon.
Thankfully, I don't have to go that far. This guy's desperate. It clicks. He's got the idea. Well done you. "What I'm gonna do, then," he says, mustering up as much confidence as he can, "is I'm gonna give you this car for the price of this one." I brighten up. That's what I wanted to hear.
I drive away with exact model I wanted at the price I told him I was gonna pay when I walked in. (Obviously after checking it over and test driving etc).

You might say he planned that, too. Maybe he did. Who cares. I got what I wanted and it went exactly the way I wanted it to. (And yes, I had already checked the listings of the cars and their values before I went in there and planned that out.)
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Old 14th-December-2016, 06:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

If you're wondering how they worked so well. Why did I throw him off early on, only to let him though he'd taken the lead and not argue with him?

Two reasons I started with that:
1 - Dangling a carrot. I'm a serious buyer of you can sell.
2 - He is now in doubt about whether I am easy or not and would be uncertain about whether I'd walk away or not. This would help in the forthcoming making him sweat phase.
I hadn't worked out the monthly payments in advance, as I didn't know how much he'd part ex my car for. So I had to work that out on the spot, and told him that was maximum I could afford. As it happens, I was about 7 off on a quick rough guess.
I'm not gonna argue because people tend to fight back when for hit them with aggression. But they react better to bring allowed to sweat. And react he did. He followed the script quite well, actually.
(It's worth noting I was very mentally prepared for the encounter. Could have all gone wrong if I hadn't planned it out or expected the whole thing.)
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Old 12th-July-2017, 11:10 AM   #21
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

I was a cashier for a gas station for 4 months, and it was ABSOLUTE HELL.My comfortzone was basically a whole world away. I realized how much common sense and social skills I lacked. The job also made me realize I had some deep anxiety issues. I made some major mistakes that are big no-no's in customer service. I didn't make eye contact a lot, I felt lost and didn't know what I was doing, sometimes I stuttered or mumbled, and worst of all whenever a customer had a problem, its like I malfunction as a human being and have to rely on my coworkers or my manager to save me. Sometimes we even had to "persuade" customers to take up offers or deals, and I didn't even try cuz I knew I would suck at it.
And yes, I am well aware that I suck as a cashier. I suffered many bouts of depression and anxiety attacks because I felt stupid and out of place in a job that requires customer service, which I clearly did not have the patience or specific mindset for.

However,

AN INTP IN A GOOD MOOD IS A CHARMING INTP INDEED, and when an INTP tries their best to stay in a good mood, that INTP will definitely succeed with customer service. That's what took me many failures and anxiety attacks to realize. I didn't enjoy my job, cuz I thought I sucked, so I sucked even more cuz I was in a bad mood.
But when I chose to just enjoy my job, to get to know my coworkers (INTPs are naturally curious anyway), when I made myself excited to help people, I started to do a better job. I'm not saying you have to be an extrovert. But if you have a good vibe, that vibe will spread, same goes if you have a bad vibe. You don't have to be Ms. Sunshine or an extrovert to make it in customer service. You just have to remain calm and not let the tough times get you down. Most customers just want you to ring up their purchases and get out quick. It definitely takes practice, and I would like to say I improved, but it's an ongoing learning process.

And at customer service, whenever a customer has a problem, always try to offer a solution or an alternative, rather than stating you don't have what they need. It's crucial to actually listen and understand what exactly they are having trouble with or what they need.
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Old 12th-July-2017, 06:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

In general, I think INTPs as informative types are great at assessing a customer's needs and providing them with a range of solutions that would fit the need. If you can snag a sales job like that, where you don't have to pressure to buy and can just provide info, while doing a soft-sell, that might be for the best.

Hard-sell scenarios, where you HAVE to make a hard sales quota and all that matters is making the sale, well... probably pretty dismal. I don't think we can compete with the schmoozers and glowbugs and arm-twisters because frankly I think our skills are better suited for analysis... we make great buyers/advisors... rather than forcing an outcome, which is more about selling.

Or we'd probably do even better in tech support.
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Old 14th-July-2017, 10:09 PM   #23
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I did both car sales and inside sales. In car sales I did pretty well because the customers appreciated my honesty and the fact that I didn't push them or lie to them. I sucked at inside sales and absolutely hated it. I was the worst sales person on the best team. So depressing going to work. And it's so mindlessly stupid pitching people the same thing over and over again. I'm not an extrovert. I don't have the urge to share stuff with people. If somebody wants something they can come to me and we can talk.

The way I think about sales is: if you want to buy something from me go ahead talk to me. If you seem like an okay person and you're willing to cooperate I'll give you good service. Otherwise you don't deserve my time. And this is why I suck at sales

Now I'm in IT and it's so much better.
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Old 15th-July-2017, 04:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

IQ: Just an aside on IQ. A high IQ isn't necessarily "all advantage." A high IQ coupled with INTP may mean it is almost impossible for you to communicate with people of average or low IQ. Your statements - quite possibly born of rapid processing of information with even you not aware of the intermediate steps in your thinking - will seem like one nonsequitor after another. And you may have no clue how frustrating that is, since we are not always at the top of our game in processing other people's emotions, let along our own.

As for INTPs selling, I think soft selling works, where you provide information and make it clear people can make their own decision. It's what I do in my post-retirement occupation as a public insurance adjuster. However, those most successful in my company are all about hard sell. If I got paid a salary rather than strictly a commission, I'd be fired after six months. Your mileage may vary, just speaking as a profoundly INTP personality.
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Old 15th-July-2017, 05:09 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by EditorOne View Post
IQ: Just an aside on IQ. A high IQ isn't necessarily "all advantage." A high IQ coupled with INTP may mean it is almost impossible for you to communicate with people of average or low IQ. Your statements - quite possibly born of rapid processing of information with even you not aware of the intermediate steps in your thinking - will seem like one nonsequitor after another. And you may have no clue how frustrating that is, since we are not always at the top of our game in processing other people's emotions, let along our own.

As for INTPs selling, I think soft selling works, where you provide information and make it clear people can make their own decision. It's what I do in my post-retirement occupation as a public insurance adjuster. However, those most successful in my company are all about hard sell. If I got paid a salary rather than strictly a commission, I'd be fired after six months. Your mileage may vary, just speaking as a profoundly INTP personality.
I hate to ask this, but what is considered "high IQ"?

I relate to some of what you are saying, but tbh, I more often than not chalk it up to having a completely different kind of thought process than the norm (or just because I am too stupid to know how to relate to people) due to the cause stemming from having a mental illness. Not that the mental illness precedes the thought process, but I digress.
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Old 17th-July-2017, 11:57 PM   #26
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

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Originally Posted by QuickTwist View Post
I hate to ask this, but what is considered "high IQ"?

I relate to some of what you are saying, but tbh, I more often than not chalk it up to having a completely different kind of thought process than the norm (or just because I am too stupid to know how to relate to people) due to the cause stemming from having a mental illness. Not that the mental illness precedes the thought process, but I digress.
So far as I know, two-thirds of the population have IQs between 85 and 115, so we can call that "average" and anything above it "high." But there's a big range of "high," and at a basic level a high IQ just means you can learn things faster and quicker.

I have no idea what my own IQ is, just that it's probably above average because I consistently test in the top percentile of the population. It hasn't resulted in more money or more happiness, however, and I keep myself from snarky smugness by reminding myself that the top one percent means that in this country alone there are three million people at least that smart, with a good number of them undoubtedly breathtakingly smarter than me. :-) I just had the thought of INTP being an impairment to some stuff after reading the thread. Top of my head, shooting from the hip, take it with a grain of salt.
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Old 18th-July-2017, 12:18 AM   #27
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Default Re: INTP as Sales Person

The opposite of success isn't failure – it's talking about one's IQ.
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