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Old 21st-April-2017, 04:51 AM   #51
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Default Re: Google images paedophilic results

@Higs
For some reason I don't find teen porn that shocking, but some asshole dared me to watch animal porn once and it fucked me up badly. I posted here looking for help, same as you: http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=22647
And now I'm fine. And you'll be fine too. It just takes some time to get it off your system. Just avoid looking up that kind of stuff in the future.
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Old 21st-April-2017, 05:54 AM   #52
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Default Re: Google images paedophilic results

I don't want to sound like a psychopath but surely you can like disconnect from it? I've seen a video of people de-gloving someones face with a machete while he was still alive (looked kinda like this SFW
Spoiler:
but obviously more bloody and realistic) and I'm pretty sure if idk a horse was there as well it wouldn't bother me too much.

I'm curious as to why it's shocking, what structure did you have of the world before that caused that? Do you people simply have no imagination? I don't get it. I mean I'm not saying it's not bad on an intellectual and social level but what causes the visceral emotional reaction?
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Old 21st-April-2017, 06:48 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gopher View Post
I don't want to sound like a psychopath but surely you can like disconnect from it? I've seen a video of people de-gloving someones face with a machete while he was still alive (looked kinda like this SFW
Spoiler:
but obviously more bloody and realistic) and I'm pretty sure if idk a horse was there as well it wouldn't bother me too much.

I'm curious as to why it's shocking, what structure did you have of the world before that caused that? Do you people simply have no imagination? I don't get it. I mean I'm not saying it's not bad on an intellectual and social level but what causes the visceral emotional reaction?
Are you that surprised people can get fucked over by this type of exposure?

I'm fine with pictures, but if it were film I think I'd throw some sort of tantrum. People are affected by things differently. I could not watch the machete thing without freaking out. I can talk about these things all day, I can imagine it no problem, but actually seeing it is different. That's when it's no longer a mental exercise.

Funny experience kinda relevant:
The other day I took a first aid course. Everyone there was from the childcare industry except for the instructor (who reminded me a bit of RB IRL). He kept using the child mannequins, and treating them roughly, like tossing them by the head in a pile etc. (intentionally, as a provocative kind of humour). This drove half the people there nuts. My boss rang up and complained afterwords, several people left muttering. Educators who work with babies have a constant vigilance for children, and when they see this mistreatment it affects them regardless of whether they know it's a toy. It reminded me a lot of phobic hypervigilance. While I was affected similarly, I found it more interesting than anything else, that a poor representation of a real child could bring about such a consistent and powerful physiological response in so many people at once. While the act made me uncomfortable, I think I found his demeanor more engaging than I would have most other teachers.

Empathic processes are very automated responses. They are separate from higher order thinking because if they had to stop and consult logic they would sacrifice the efficiency of response they are 'designed' to produce. People are able to compartmentalise to different degrees, apparently you can to a very high degree.
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Old 21st-April-2017, 07:12 AM   #54
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Default Re: Google images paedophilic results

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadoblado View Post
Are you that surprised people can get fucked over by this type of exposure?

...

Empathic processes are very automated responses. They are separate from higher order thinking because if they had to stop and consult logic they would sacrifice the efficiency of response they are 'designed' to produce. People are able to compartmentalise to different degrees, apparently you can to a very high degree.
Well... no... but I was more wondering why people did. I guess that makes sense. I also have a fairly high level of protectionism when it comes to children so I'll just transpose that reaction to this.

Thanks that makes sense.

Edit: Apparently protectionism is a term related to importing... You get the idea though.
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Old 21st-April-2017, 07:25 AM   #55
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Default Re: Google images paedophilic results

I still have pain from watching the movie Silent Hill in 2011.

My brain felt like it was burning and being ground up in a grinder.

It's hard for me to be around little kids now because I don't want them to be hurt by anyone.

I think of what happened to the little girl in the movie.

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Old 21st-April-2017, 08:36 AM   #56
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Default Re: Google images paedophilic results

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadoblado View Post
Are you that surprised people can get fucked over by this type of exposure?

I'm fine with pictures, but if it were film I think I'd throw some sort of tantrum. People are affected by things differently. I could not watch the machete thing without freaking out. I can talk about these things all day, I can imagine it no problem, but actually seeing it is different. That's when it's no longer a mental exercise.

Funny experience kinda relevant:
The other day I took a first aid course. Everyone there was from the childcare industry except for the instructor (who reminded me a bit of RB IRL). He kept using the child mannequins, and treating them roughly, like tossing them by the head in a pile etc. (intentionally, as a provocative kind of humour). This drove half the people there nuts. My boss rang up and complained afterwords, several people left muttering. Educators who work with babies have a constant vigilance for children, and when they see this mistreatment it affects them regardless of whether they know it's a toy. It reminded me a lot of phobic hypervigilance. While I was affected similarly, I found it more interesting than anything else, that a poor representation of a real child could bring about such a consistent and powerful physiological response in so many people at once. While the act made me uncomfortable, I think I found his demeanor more engaging than I would have most other teachers.

Empathic processes are very automated responses. They are separate from higher order thinking because if they had to stop and consult logic they would sacrifice the efficiency of response they are 'designed' to produce. People are able to compartmentalise to different degrees, apparently you can to a very high degree.
LOL

I think it's probably because he did it deliberately, that's just being a dick. If he was just doing it for efficiency's sake it'd be fine, I think?
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Old 21st-April-2017, 01:30 PM   #57
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Default Re: Google images paedophilic results

^I think I would find that funny.

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Originally Posted by The Gopher View Post

I'm curious as to why it's shocking, what structure did you have of the world before that caused that? Do you people simply have no imagination? I don't get it. I mean I'm not saying it's not bad on an intellectual and social level but what causes the visceral emotional reaction?

Maybe he was empathizing with the person who's life ended up putting them in the situation of being filmed doing "zoophilic" (not really because it's highly unlikely the chick is doing it because that's actually what she gets off on) acts for the pleasure of some viewer, what kind of situation leads u to do that? To be filmed prostitutuing yourself with an animal? Can you imagine what would lead you to do that ? You stop being unaffected by something when you imagine yourself in that person's place, when you swap your subjectivities in imagination.


Anyway, everyone stop saying I'm bothered by the category of teen porn, I'm not bothered by 20 or even 18 year old prostitutes, well not shocked at least., I am however bothered with the paedophilic tendencies within that category, which are thankfully not the majority. I am actually fine, I've seen bad stuff before and was fine psychologically. The actual problem is that this is fucking google FIRST PAGE RESULTS churning out apparent 12 13 year old girls (I'm good at telling ages) being groped by adult men for the most researched category of pornography (which is generally meant to contain 18-25).

This also brought back personal unpleasant memories.

Actually I fucking hate porn mostly. I'm not disturbed by it, but I don't like it. Some of its alright; my own mind is far more interesting and exciting than some random people I know nothing about "fucking" for money.
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Old 21st-April-2017, 01:48 PM   #58
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Maybe he was empathizing with the person who's life ended up putting them in the situation of being filmed doing "zoophilic" (not really because it's highly unlikely the chick is doing it because that's actually what she gets off on) acts for the pleasure of some viewer, what kind of situation leads u to do that? To be filmed prostitutuing yourself with an animal? Can you imagine what would lead you to do that ?

Actually I fucking hate porn mostly. I'm not disturbed by it, but I don't like it. Some of its alright; my own mind is far more interesting and exciting than some random people I know nothing about "fucking" for money.
Oh that's odd, the visual image I always have of zoophilic activities is generally male. Probably because of the "shock" videos people were sending around in the early days of the internet. Sure I can imagine it. I imagine some hate it and some like it. I mean just look at the rise in furry stuff of late, cross reference it with exhibitionism and... Sure it's a 80/20 male/female split but still. Just because you and I have no desire for this kinda thing doesn't mean everyone hates it. Although in most cases people who are exhibitionists that are into bestiality may have had a messed up life to get to liking that in the first place so...

I guess the point is I realize the worst situations but choose to hope for the best or simply don't have the emotional capacity to care about everything.

Also I don't exactly know what happened before it's like I temporally forgot how empathy and emotional reactions work.

Yeah I don't find it particularly gripping either but it's not really designed for me.
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Old 21st-April-2017, 02:54 PM   #59
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Well...I mean I don't know what most people say, but for me it's a combination of things ranging from

*having to dress and act like a man - it's unnatural and I don't like having to dress masculine; it feels bad, like I'm lying to people and have to play the role, which I don't even want to. And even somethibg like getting a compliment is depressing, because it reminds you how you aren't being yourself.

*Physical attraction - a straight girl or gay guy doesn't want to hear that you have disphoria; it's like lying to them and it's shitty feeling not being able to present your actual self. Makes being intimate with someone anxiety-filled

*Sex - it's frustrating to subconsciously see myself as the other gender. Like imagine a guy always having gotten off on the thought of being penetrated, yet you have the equipment for penetration, if that makes sense. And it's something that was always there, since puberty (well actually before that too...)

*Emotions - a guy expects other guys to have a common masculine relatedness. Could be anything from having a certain callousness of emotions to a ridicule or indifference of emotional sensitivity and nuance. It's a kind of bonding thing to have something in common like this. Cept I had to learn those things. Part of the reason why I considered I might be Aspergers, but I pretty much doubt that now in light of realizing I'm trans.

*relating with women - basically I pretty much only relate emotionally with women and never with men. A lot of the stereotypes for men never fit, yet the feminine ones did. Bit of a mindfuck. At one point I considered calling myself a "male lesbian" in seriousness, not the joking way that guys say they are lesbian.

I don't know. It's just all very anxiety-filled, like you have to live a life that isn't natural to you.
So do you think that if gender roles and prejudice didn't exist you would still feel this anxiety ?
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Old 21st-April-2017, 03:04 PM   #60
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Default Re: Google images paedophilic results

i think those who are so affected by these kind of images are feelers
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Old 21st-April-2017, 03:06 PM   #61
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So do you think that if gender roles and prejudice didn't exist you would still feel this anxiety ?
Yeah I had to double check I wasn't trans for a moment. But seriously it's interesting thanks for sharing. I'm wondering where the difference lies between gender roles, sexuality and transgender.

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i think those who are so affected by these kind of images are feelers
Well technically it's more likely for people with feeling low in the stack to have emotional problems.
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Old 21st-April-2017, 03:10 PM   #62
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Default Re: Google images paedophilic results

Fe empathy is the ultimate fuck up with this stuff, that and openeness, so I would think SFJ Would be most easily traumatized or shocked maybe
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Old 21st-April-2017, 05:54 PM   #63
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Well technically it's more likely for people with feeling low in the stack to have emotional problems.
can u imagine immanuel kant, einstein, donnie darko, having enough patience to discuss dramma investing their logical side, i KANT
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Old 21st-April-2017, 06:03 PM   #64
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can u imagine immanuel kant, einstein, donnie darko, having enough patience to discuss dramma investing their logical side, i KANT
Not to get too off track but that is a straw man. You can't cherry pick data particularly intelligent healthy people and apply it to yourself/other T's in general. I don't think it's particularly related to type maybe more exposure and culture.
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Old 21st-April-2017, 08:37 PM   #65
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So do you think that if gender roles and prejudice didn't exist you would still feel this anxiety ?
Not sure what you mean. I don't think gender roles are bad or inherently prejudice, if you're implying that. I think they reinforce each gender's instincts or gender in general and that's why they exist and will probably never go away completely. But they get a bad rep for putting social pressure on people to fulfill certain roles.

Like I get it that people don't want to be limited by their gender in what they can do. Seems pretty fair. But having someone fill a gender role that is unnatural to them isn't the same as someone that just doesn't want to be limited or defined by them. Both don't want their gender role, but the motivations are different.

So to answer your question, yes. There is still a feeling of instincts and desires in line with the feminine. It doesn't just go away because gender roles are taken away.

On the other hand, if you mean anyone can choose their gender role, then a lot of anxiety would go away, but there's still the body/equipment incongruence or just the simple fact that ever since puberty I've hated the masculine features I have. I actually reasoned to myself as a teenager that since I liked women, it must mean I wouldn't like my body because it's masculine. But that's not how someone that isn't trans feels when they look in the mirror. I would get jealous of attractive women because they got to be pretty. A normal guy thinks women are attractive; they don't think "man I really wish I could be beautiful too". It's just instincts.
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Old 21st-April-2017, 11:31 PM   #66
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can u imagine immanuel kant, einstein, donnie darko, having enough patience to discuss dramma investing their logical side, i KANT
Actually I think Einstein or Kant would have been pretty perturbed by it.
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Old 22nd-April-2017, 02:59 AM   #67
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...

So to answer your question, yes. There is still a feeling of instincts and desires in line with the feminine. It doesn't just go away because gender roles are taken away.
...

A normal guy thinks women are attractive; they don't think "man I really wish I could be beautiful too". It's just instincts.
Right so some people would say gender roles are entirely "socially constructed" where as you would say partly but also partly instinctual.

I must have a similar dysphoria but without some of the inbuilt instincts or something.
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Old 22nd-April-2017, 03:47 AM   #68
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Why you always gotta trolley.

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Old 22nd-April-2017, 08:36 AM   #69
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Why you always gotta trolley.
I don't remember what I said but I do truly relate to pretty much everything you said. Although I've started to imagine myself as female less. I probably just peppered it with an attempt at humor to deflect in case someone attacked me over it.

Edit: Like, when I was younger if I knew it was possible I would probably have given transitioning serious thought.
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Old 22nd-April-2017, 12:15 PM   #70
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Actually I think Einstein or Kant would have been pretty perturbed by it.
Kant would have been fucking revolted

Thanks for answering reluctantly that's really interesting, it means we innately identify with some sex for some reason, probably when we're kids? By eliminating gender roles I meant simply being able to act however without judgement in the way they want to act, not "force everyone to be as neutral as possible" or whatever the other option is

I have to say it is odd to me when you say you are "instinctively in line with the feminine", I'm not saying it's not true or whatever, just that I don't understand what it is and you are identifying something I don't see, because I'm not trans and perfectly fine with my body but I've never felt at all comfortable with many of the typical female things like dolls or certain attitudes or whatever, and this is ever since I was a child...I distinctly remember not wanting to look like a boy (short hair, trousers) one time but that's about it. Oh and I remember my mum asking me if I wanted to be a boy and me saying no :...See I feel like I am how I am because of the body I'm in, but maybe that's because I correspond to my sex so I don't notice any dissonance. I wonder what this "feminine" that you are referring to is that isn't that culturally assigned role...it's weird it seems almost to be just some kind of instinct.
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Old 23rd-April-2017, 12:17 AM   #71
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I'd say that generally speaking women have preferences in terms of sexuality/expression that align with other women and vice-versa for men.

If your preferences don't align with majority of the others of your sex, so for example if a girl wants to dress in trousers, have short hair etc. Or a man wants to wear dresses then there'll be conflict. Higs you seem to want to be feminine, just not in the extreme. So your level of conflict is relatively low.

Further than physical representation, maybe someone innately desires sex in a way that falls outside the norm e.g. a guy wants to be the one being fucked, on top of dressing girly or w/e. I actually think these things are not necessarily 'trans'. I think Reluctantly said they're attracted to women still though, so I dunno, maybe he just needs to find more women who have a more 'male' personality and then he'd be more at ease in intimate relations.
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Old 23rd-April-2017, 12:36 AM   #72
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Default Re: Google images paedophilic results

Kuu says I am a girl and that is how I feel, motherly and submissive. I want my wife to be strong and gentle.
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Old 23rd-April-2017, 06:34 AM   #73
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I have to say it is odd to me when you say you are "instinctively in line with the feminine", I'm not saying it's not true or whatever, just that I don't understand what it is and you are identifying something I don't see, because I'm not trans and perfectly fine with my body but I've never felt at all comfortable with many of the typical female things like dolls or certain attitudes or whatever, and this is ever since I was a child...I distinctly remember not wanting to look like a boy (short hair, trousers) one time but that's about it. Oh and I remember my mum asking me if I wanted to be a boy and me saying no :...See I feel like I am how I am because of the body I'm in, but maybe that's because I correspond to my sex so I don't notice any dissonance. I wonder what this "feminine" that you are referring to is that isn't that culturally assigned role...it's weird it seems almost to be just some kind of instinct.
From wikipedia
"Traits traditionally cited as feminine include gentleness, empathy, and sensitivity."

My dad would sometimes take me fishing. The first time we did it, I felt awful seeing the fish get hooked and bleed and they would squirm. Then you have to hold them and pull the hook out, while they freak out because you're hurting them. Sometimes the hook got lost in the fishes mouth or it was too far in to get out or it would go through the eye. I just didn't fucking like it, we didn't even eat the fish, just tortured it for fun (not fun for me, I was happy when we were done). But I'd try and do it because I thought that's what I was supposed to like because other people liked it or something. Or maybe I was just a kid and thought parents knew best like most kids do.

I used to hug girls because I wanted the affection in like, I don't know, 1st or 2nd or 3rd grade. i just did it because it felt right. But I got sent to the principals office couple times for it. I used to have girls as friends too. It was nice. I feel like puberty and thinking about sex and hormones amplifying your gender fucks all that up. I never related with the guy's around me. Come to think of it, the three guy friends I had back then were weird in certain ways, like me. One of them had parents that were illegals and he was a little crazy, the other one was really introverted (but women usually thought he was hot, which is kind of funny), and the other might actually be a little autistic. Other than the autistic guy being a straight-up oblivious or too direct-and-honest asshole sometimes, I feel like we got along because we accepted or appreciated how different we were. I still remember the one time I was distraught (don't remember why) and I just wanted to be around the introverted one. I spent the night sleeping in his room and he didn't seem to mind. It was just nice to be around someone I liked (not romantically of course). I think that's why I like cats because they are so sweet, they just seem to appreciate the closeness and affection.

But I remember watching "Oh my Goddess!" and feeling relieved. I'd watch the female characters and sort of live through them I guess. Used to do the same with cheesy romance movies. Never Been Kissed comes to mind (as cheesy as that sounds). Even when my life got really bad, I saw myself reflected through women in fiction - Lisbeth Salander and Alma Wade come to mind most. The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo actually gave me a lot of anxiety because I felt like I was seeing my own dark emotions/feelings on a screen. I had a strange trance with the original fear game; I'm not really an obsessive person, but I had a period of time where I just absorbed it, like seeing Alma throughout the game as a reflection of my soul's pain. Honestly, I'm surprised I never did kill myself. Oh yeah, I did try once. I tried not drinking water and took a lot of sleeping pills, but I got found and just slept for like 48 hours straight or something. Almost forgot about that; it was a long time ago I guess. Mental hospitals fucking suck; they take emotionally damaged people, imprison them, and ignore how they feel in favor of a "prescribed" recourse. It's like taking a crazy person, making them crazy, and not letting them do anything about it.

anyway, I don't think I'm going to talk about this here any more. I don't really feel like I have to justify it to anyone and that isn't why I even responded to you to begin with. Most people don't understand and think it doesn't really exist or think I'm crazy or both. So be it then.

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I'd say that generally speaking women have preferences in terms of sexuality/expression that align with other women and vice-versa for men.

If your preferences don't align with majority of the others of your sex, so for example if a girl wants to dress in trousers, have short hair etc. Or a man wants to wear dresses then there'll be conflict. Higs you seem to want to be feminine, just not in the extreme. So your level of conflict is relatively low.

Further than physical representation, maybe someone innately desires sex in a way that falls outside the norm e.g. a guy wants to be the one being fucked, on top of dressing girly or w/e. I actually think these things are not necessarily 'trans'. I think Reluctantly said they're attracted to women still though, so I dunno, maybe he just needs to find more women who have a more 'male' personality and then he'd be more at ease in intimate relations.
I had a relationship with a tomboy, if that's the same thing. Didn't work out; she used to tell me I had emotions like a girl. And I don't think she minded that, but once I was open about all the stuff that was weird - how I wanted to look sexy in her clothes and stuff or when I was "penetrating" her, I'd have to imagine I was being penetrated to get off, she got really bothered by it. I really believe that's what fucked it all up and I think you guys just try to make it seem like everything about gender is subjective, like there's nothing deeper about it. If your a feminine guy, just find a masculine girl. Yeah okay, but a feminine guy still has a level of masculinity that he just has and is probably instinctively desired by most straight women.
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Old 23rd-April-2017, 07:41 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reluctantly
I had a relationship with a tomboy, if that's the same thing. Didn't work out; she used to tell me I had emotions like a girl. And I don't think she minded that, but once I was open about all the stuff that was weird - how I wanted to look sexy in her clothes and stuff or when I was "penetrating" her, I'd have to imagine I was being penetrated to get off, she got really bothered by it. I really believe that's what fucked it all up and I think you guys just try to make it seem like everything about gender is subjective, like there's nothing deeper about it. If your a feminine guy, just find a masculine girl. Yeah okay, but a feminine guy still has a level of masculinity that he just has and is probably instinctively desired by most straight women.
that's not exactly an example of what I meant, and I did say the opposite about gender (that I think it's not all subjective). There's women out there who're into the same kind of things and I don't know that it's all that unusual for people to have to use their imagination to get off during sex.

I think that an individual's gender is typically a deeply rooted thing and if you feel dysphoria when you're even referred to as a 'male' then I'd agree you're trans - and I wouldn't suggest that you could change or affect that. I just responded because a lot of what you're saying occurs to me to be as much a matter of finding the right person - but if you actually feel like you have no masculinity at all, that's a different ballgame.

I mean, what if your previous girlfriend actually loved to fuck you and enjoyed playing dress-ups in sexy clothes?

Anyway, didn't intend to turn this into a thread about your sex life. Feel free to ignore :^)
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Old 23rd-April-2017, 07:48 AM   #75
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Yeah I'm not saying it's all subjective (although I did mention that SOME people think that) I'm trying to find the line or scenario where it isn't. Because for me I guess I would be right near the edge (assuming there is one) but lacking the key components I guess. I'm just looking for the line or factor of difference between us and you've mentioned it I just wanted it clarified for my own sake and again thank you so much for talking about it it's really helpful.

Edit: just saw RB's post, yeah it's really off topic but at the same time the old topic kinda died.
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Old 23rd-April-2017, 11:28 AM   #76
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I think gender alignement is to some extent genetically determined too. Reluctantly I wasn't trying to get you to justify yourself or be a certain way, so sorry if it made you feel as such. I'm just genuinely interested and I think it shows us something about whether gender is innate or not, and it's interesting to try and isolate what exactly is and isn't, I definitely don't think you're crazy (well no more than anyone else :-) ) I spent quite a lot of time reading trans accounts of how they feel and how it manifests, so being able to talk about it directly and make it an exchange was cool. I have met one MTF once but weren't close enough to ask questions and don't want to be intrusive (on an anonymous Internet forum it's easier to ignore me or not care). Actually it was rather surprising because I walked into the party and got introduced to everyone, including a rather pretty girl called Marion and then later on in the evening as I was talking to her realized that I had met her before at another party where she had not yet transitioned and was going by a male name and dressed in typically male clothing, later my friends told me that she had announced to them she would be transitioning, so I guess I could say she was successful at it, she looked happy. I apologize for being intrusive, and I wish you well with resolving any of the issues causing you anxiety.
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Old 23rd-April-2017, 12:13 PM   #77
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I noticed something about you Reluctantly ever since you posted that pic in my thread with Severus Snape. It told me you knew something. I am grateful that it did. The dog of wisdom is so cute, I love it. (Interesting Videos thread). A passive awareness. Like my eyes. But by the enneagram I am between 4 and 5, you are between 1 and 2.

I want to be with a girl who is between 2 and 3.
You may want to be with someone between 3 and 4.

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Old 24th-April-2017, 02:49 PM   #78
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Default Re: Google images paedophilic results

@Reluctantly - just out of curiosity, what stage are you at? I mean, if the transition isn't complete, which do you pass as? And would you rather I refer to you as "she" (just so I know in future)?
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