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  1. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    Scorpion - in response to my statement about being at greatest odds with those with the same dominant function but opposite attitudinal (E vs I) preference...I resubmit the claim - with the caveat that - as Brontosaurus observes - everything is a matter of semantics...so the caveat is I'm a fan...
  2. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    Nope - not at all - I take it for granted I'm among some smart (like me :) ) company...so if I'm sincere (and I am) then I'll hold to my original intent (and self-interest)... I'm looking for strategies...really...because (like you just described) sometimes I feel like Michael Douglas (I forgot...
  3. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    We agree to disagree - fair enough. Everything is semantics...yup can't argue with that. (final) Re-direct - just because we've come down this road...can you elaborate (read describe) what your experience of "the core issue is excess male hostility" has been? Thanks for making the effort...
  4. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    My bad - I summarized "the core issue is excess male hostility in an increasingly connected world." with the term "gender bias". So kudos to you for mentioning testosterone - an empirical truth to be sure. Just to be clear we are still 'arguing' about semantics...language used and not the...
  5. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    Brontosaurie, Jung states (in "Types" I believe) about his purpose in developing psychological types: "To provide a critical psychology which will make a methodical investigation and presentation of the empirical material possible. First, and foremost, it is a critical tool for the research...
  6. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    I appreciate what Brontosaurie say's here...and it's (perhaps) the most immediate...blatant(?) criticism to be made. Couching the subject of a shadow en masse in typlogical terms wouldn't even get the time of day outside of say...a forum concerned with typology...which is why I bothered to...
  7. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    Thanks for the article scorpio...I was hoping someone would chime in with some kind of significant contribution otherwise my initial posts end up being a rant - and that wasn't the point (from my end). As I think you can testify to - the discomfort (feeling at odds) with...what?...it's still...
  8. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    Quite right Brontosaurie - let's call it the modern world's shadow ESTJ - good? Still haven't heard anything from you relative to how you relate to said shadow? Do you agree/think it exists? If so - how do you relate? Are you not one of the 'intellectuals' taking part in this...
  9. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    But what if you're identified as a 'glue remover'...it's neurotic but I can't help but feel that by becoming more in 'tune' with my type I also 'appear'...'come off' as being unsympathetic...'out of tune' with the (en masse) ESTJ Shadow's fear of the future...desire for security at all...
  10. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    Any thoughts? :)
  11. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    The first couple of pages of the book “Compass of the Soul Archetypal Guides to a Fuller Life” by John Giannini. A hidden agenda is at the heart of this book on typology and its soulful, archetypal way. Given Jung’s assumption that typology applies to culture as well as to the psyche and...
  12. NaturalOrder

    America's Shadow (en masse: ESTJ)

    Sorry for the length…please throw in your 2 cents - any insight would be appreciated What follows is a transcription of the first couple of pages of the last chapter (11) of the book “Compass of the Soul Archetypal Guides to a Fuller Life” by John Giannini. (Aside: I've left a review for the...
  13. NaturalOrder

    Turnarounds

    Funny - I was considering this part of the INTP profile on Personality Junkie about an hour ago...your inclination to write sounds reminiscent of the Dr's desire to appeal to a public audience (as opposed to academic)...I'm considering much the same things relative to my life (course) at...
  14. NaturalOrder

    As INTP - we all know we're J's and not P's right?

    Wow - that's an apt description of what my experience is like when 'in the grip'...thanks for that Dialectic...and I will probably (eventually) plagiarize it...but perfect description (for me at least) :)
  15. NaturalOrder

    "When it comes to leadership and influence iNtuitive people have an edge over Sensing people."

    Fellow brother (INTP)...fellow NT Tribesman...it's your thread...so if you want to submit as a final argument that your mother...you own 'Heart'...She who gave you - oh I don't know - only Life itself...should stand as proxy for all Sensors in the world...effectively Archetypal proxy for...
  16. NaturalOrder

    "When it comes to leadership and influence iNtuitive people have an edge over Sensing people."

    I get that we (as Intuitives) are (most) often not appreciated for our 'gifts' differing...I just don't think we do a good job convincing anyone about them when our argument (constructive argument) isn't very well crafted...I think (the article) is kinda of a lazy job... On the premise of...
  17. NaturalOrder

    "When it comes to leadership and influence iNtuitive people have an edge over Sensing people."

    (Quotes from article)"I'm not saying S's are bad. I'm saying they're not smart." "I would think that people who are influential are probably smarter than other people." As soon as someone starts throwing around the word 'smart' so liberally - well it makes me think he is 'really' kind of a...
  18. NaturalOrder

    As INTP - we all know we're J's and not P's right?

    Yes - that's my understanding - we are only J's inside our minds...but it being the dominant place we pivot from - and (in that) our dominant preference 'colors'...informs all the other preferences in our functional stack... That's a significant detail - no?
  19. NaturalOrder

    As INTP - we all know we're J's and not P's right?

    Yeah - looks like I have some catching up to do... Thanks again
  20. NaturalOrder

    As INTP - we all know we're J's and not P's right?

    Damn that was quick - and I thought I was being clever...sad thing about my life I come to realizations like these long (too long) sometimes...after the fact... Thanks for the welcome...and since you linked to the site of this next (for me somewhat revelatory) insight (Personality Junkie -...
  21. NaturalOrder

    As INTP - we all know we're J's and not P's right?

    OK - so I'm new here (glad to be here btw - nice to hang with others of the Tribe NT) and so am not trying to purposefully incur any flaming BUT.... This was one of the first distinctions about being an INTP (more correctly understanding the MBTI) that really surprised me, but then when I...
  22. NaturalOrder

    What type was Carl Jung?

    I just finished the book "Compass of the Soul" by John Giannini (Amazing!) and he types Jung as INTJ. If you look at his life (the 'Red Book' period)...I mean - what is he doing all the while? ...while having his nervous break down?...thinking - iT (dominant for INTP) or intuiting -...
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