Extraverted Feeling and Agreeableness

I noticed I am very agreeable. I was wondering if this has anything to do with Fe. That is the impression I get from Auburn and Nanook.

Animekitty said:

I noticed I am very agreeable. I was wondering if this has anything to do with Fe. That is the impression I get from Auburn and Nanook.

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That seems very possible. Though, honestly, I don't know much about Fe in itself. I do, however, understand more how I seem to operate via Fi:

I find that I am agreeable when I need to be. When I speak to people I feel my "different" ideas won't offend them, I tend to speak my mind, which can also be considered keeping me to the definition of agreeable.

For a "woman", however, I am probably not considered agreeable.

I filter information kind of like a spam filter, so sometimes if someone says something I thought belonged in "spam" I will get either aloof, tense, or have to try and pause my filtering to care and see if I can redirect the conversation where what the person says to me no longer goes into "spam".

I've found this habit of pausing to care (it took probably years to realize that this was helpful) has been the most mutually beneficial in interpersonal communication. Perhaps this is something that people with Fe do naturally. I, however, do put a lot of mental energy into getting this to work out.

And... This is why I find myself unable to have too many random people interactions in one day. I need to be prepared or I'll just be drained due to my agreeableness.

If I turn down my agreeableness, people who are not used to seeing a woman actually have an opinion or state truths or state facts get defensive. I hope one day I'll be able to speak without prejudice or at least in a way that overrides prejudice.

Animekitty said:

I noticed I am very agreeable. I was wondering if this has anything to do with Fe. That is the impression I get from Auburn and Nanook.

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Idk, I'm agreeable as well and understanding other people's emotional states and what these mean is very easy for me... second nature tbh I just can't express Fe to influence other ppl... and I prefer to run away than talk about my feelings. Very often I'm out of touch with how I feel and get blindsided / negatively surprised by my feelings which seem to come out of nowhere every once in a blue moon and are uncontrollable. Sometimes crying for no fucking reason or fury... the hulk smash kind of fury. e_e I wish happiness would blindside me...

In my case, my emotional literacy may be attributed to growing up in a household where there was a constant emotional minefield. If you failed to navigate it properly my mother and grandmother would explode in what I call "never-ending super drama combat". I quickly learned to be strongly aware of other people's emotional states and the general atmosphere. My sanity very much depended on it.

Animekitty said:

I noticed I am very agreeable. I was wondering if this has anything to do with Fe. That is the impression I get from Auburn and Nanook.

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I thought you were an ENFP, i.e. a Fi-user.

I can see emotional differences between TPs who have Fe and TJs who have Fi.

TPs tend to phone me when they want to. They don't when they don't. They don't want to hang out with me, if I don't, and vice versa. If they want company and I don't want to hang out with them, they go out and find someone else to hang out with.

TJs tend to say things like "You didn't phone me last night. I didn't know if you were coming over, because I'd have to clear up."

I don't want you to clear up just for me, unless I specifically ask you to. But TJs seem to have their own rules over how they want to accept visitors, and I need to fit in with those rules, even if that makes life harder for them, and is NOT what I wanted.

Also, ALL Ts are supposed to be disagreeable, whether they have Fi or Fe.

So I don't think being agreeable or not really expresses the difference between Fi and Fe.

Tenacity said:

That seems very possible. Though, honestly, I don't know much about Fe in itself. I do, however, understand more how I seem to operate via Fi:

I find that I am agreeable when I need to be. When I speak to people I feel my "different" ideas won't offend them, I tend to speak my mind, which can also be considered keeping me to the definition of agreeable.

I filter information kind of like a spam filter, so sometimes if someone says something I thought belonged in "spam" I will get either aloof, tense, or have to try and pause my filtering to care and see if I can redirect the conversation where what the person says to me no longer goes into "spam".

I've found this habit of pausing to care (it took probably years to realize that this was helpful) has been the most mutually beneficial in interpersonal communication. Perhaps this is something that people with Fe do naturally. I, however, do put a lot of mental energy into getting this to work out.

And... This is why I find myself unable to have too many random people interactions in one day. I need to be prepared or I'll just be drained due to my agreeableness

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IME, ISTPs and INTPs seem to understand and do things they way you do.

I tend to find that INTJs and ENTJs don't care too much if their ideas will offend others.

So what you are saying sounds more like Ti.

Tenacity said:

For a "woman", however, I am probably not considered agreeable.

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IME, people seem to only mention female INTPs, when they are asking "How can I meet one?" So they seem to be extremely desired as companions, both sexual and intellectual.

They also seem to have a reputation as being competent and thoughtful, unlike young male INTPs.

I find that female INTJs are only offensive, when they say things that would offend people even more if they were coming from a man.

Tenacity said:

If I turn down my agreeableness, people who are not used to seeing a woman actually have an opinion or state truths or state facts get defensive. I hope one day I'll be able to speak without prejudice or at least in a way that overrides prejudice.

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When male TPs turn down their agreeableness, they tend to get punched in the face.

You'll know when men are fine with a woman actually have an opinion or state truths or state facts, because when you do that, at work, you'll get treated like dirt, and socially, you'll get a punch in the face.

Now, you can argue why men are like that.

When men are in a situation where they feel comfortable to be vulnerable, they often are extremely open and supportive. So men aren't disagreeable by choice.

But consider if you're in a troop that is defending against an army like the Germans in WW2, and your CO is unwittingly leading you into an ambush, because he hasn't seen the ambushers and you have. Sometimes, you tell him, he notices them too and you avoid the ambush. Sometimes, , you tell him, he looks around and still sees nothing and continues on ahead. What are you going to do? Walk off by yourself? How long will you survive by yourself, surrounded by enemy soldiers, without other soldiers to back you up? So you HAVE to get him to stop, and he probably won't do that unless you are prepared to say and do whatever it takes to get him to stop, including insulting his wife and punching him in the face. Even if he beats you up and sends you to the brig, that's got to be better than you and your buddies being shot to pieces.

So you have to understand that men evolved to be disagreeable for a reason. Being too agreeable as a man tends to mean that you're the type of guy who, when he KNOWS people are about to do something dangerous and harmful, won't speak up and say anything.

Now, you can argue why women are traditionally not disagreeable.

Traditionally, men chose dangerous jobs like going to war, because women are much more valuable. If most of your army gets killed, but they're all men, then you can easily repopulate in a generation, because one man can impregnate thousands of women. But because of the way pregnancy works, if even one woman gets killed, then other women aren't going to be able to get pregnant more often just to make up the numbers from the loss of her future offspring. So any job that risked lives, would be much more damaging to your family, your tribe and your society, if it was a woman that did that job but not a man.

So largely, when it came to the jobs where not being willing to be disagreeable would cause deaths, women tended to be dissuaded from taking those jobs, because they were too valuable for the long-term survival of the species, and men tended to be forced to take those jobs, because someone had to do them and you couldn't afford to leave them undone long enough that women would get fed up and do them.

Women simply don't HAVE to be disagreeable, and being disagreeable is generally considered rude.

You can see this in Jewish culture. Jews in general, generally do not consider arguing to be a sign of disagreement, but a matter of clarification. This is especially true for religious Jews, as many of the males have spent years in Yeshiva, arguing over points of Jewish law at the top of their lungs for 10 hours a day, 5 days a week. In lots of Jewish families and Jewish communities, it's perfectly accepted and even expected that the woman argues with the man. If a woman doesn't argue vociferously with men, it's considered abnormal.

You can also see this more in working-class families, where the women insult and hit their husbands as hard as their husbands insult and hit them.

So, in Jewish culture and in working-class culture, men and women being disagreeable is just being normal, while in Western middle-class culture, men and women being disagreeable is seen as a personal attack. Men have to regularly exercise their skill at being disagreeble, for when lives will depend on it. So men often offend people and pay a high price for it. But they have to avoid the trap of losing their ability to be disagreeable in a way that makes people take notice to what they are saying, or they'd be unsuitable for the jobs where lives are depending on it.

Women used to never have that problem, and so the most sensible thing was to be agreeable where possible.

As a result, women evolved to develop complicated social structures around being communicatively agreeable, and men evolved to develop complicated social structures around being frequently disagreeable, and where not disagreeable, being silent and uncommunicative.

scorpiomover said:

Also, ALL Ts are supposed to be disagreeable, whether they have Fi or Fe.

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Are we talking dark triad big5 disagreeableness (narcissism, psychopathy, machiavellianism) or just voicing disagreement when someone is about to do something dumb?

Dark triad traits are not good if one wants to function in a group. You need enough agreeableness to eventually accept your role in the hierarchy and work together with others to attain a goal. Ppl with dark triad traits tend to be detrimental to the well functioning of a group and in a normal male group, these ppl get thrown out, a hierarchy evolves and ppl know their place.

Things also get complicated when women are involved. T or F, it doesn't matter. Being disagreeable towards women in my experience leads to drama and endless arguing over nothing. There are no logical arguments to be made or point to be won in such a case. I have found this to be the case especially with ESTJ women who seem hellbent on disagreeing just for the sake of seeming like they are in charge, even if they are wrong and when the fucku finally happens, it was always someone else's fault, not theirs. They seem excessively territorial and refer to the office or work a "their home". I have always had better luck explaining something to an ISFJ woman, they seem more receptive to Ti. It just takes more tact and awareness of the social atmosphere. So much easier with a little effort on my part to be accommodating.

From seeing how my colleague raises her daughter it has become clear to me that girls are raised differently, socialized differently and develop expectations for interaction that are unlike that of men. <== imo this is the crux of the problem as to why a lot of T women have these issues as well. They aren't prepared for the kind of disagreeableness men are accommodated to and don't know how to handle it. Its a very rare specimen (and I have met one) who is competent, direct and knows how to deal with the guys.

Tho STJ men seem stubborn and dumb for no reason as well. It gets really bad when they have authority over an NT. I just can't get along with these ppl. Their incessant reliance on an external structure over actually achieving results is dumb as fuck. Muh rules, muh buerochracy, follow the plan, do not improvise, do as i say even if I'm retarded.

Example the neighbor's grandfather. They get into these yelling matches over how to mix and pour concrete. The old stubborn fool wins by sheer endurance, instructs everyone around him to do as he says by sheer willpower and e_e when the concrete dries it turns into dust and starts breaking off, cus he is a stupid motherfucker and mixed it wrong. These ppl often need to be stopped with a good punch top the fucking noggin.

Being excessively stubborn and sure of oneself tends to go hand in hand with stupidity. Ppl like that don't seem to have the necessary self-awareness or computing power in their brains to realize when they are making mistakes. Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Animekitty said:

I noticed I am very agreeable. I was wondering if this has anything to do with Fe. That is the impression I get from Auburn and Nanook.

Click to expand...

I'm generally agreeable in real life, it depends on the environment. If I'm with someone who will allow me to speak my opinion I'll go for it, but in work environments like mc donalds I'll just say yes to everything because there's no point of me making anything more complicated than necessary. I think agreeing with people a lot of times is simply less work.

I think some people will think "You're compromising on your beliefs, liar!!" but I don't need my opinion to be known in every possible situation, I am content with my own opinion I don't need external validation on everything. Solace in solitude.