And here I thought I was just being INTP. Not sure what you mean by trollish (okay, I admit, I can be... ) - I posted as many times as I did because the field wasn't big enough for everything I had to say. Sorry about that. Just to clarify one point, though. The commoners _didn't_ believe the Ptolemaic universe. The _academics_ did. The academics found out about the heliocentric universe from the commoners. But in any case, I get your underlying point - they were brothers in the quest for the truth, even if they had different interpretations. If Ptolemy had lived in Copernicus' time, he might have seen things differently. I just think Ptolemy catches way too much flack from modern society for reasons that had nothing to do with him or his model. He just happened to have a model that fit with others' religious convictions resulting in the later oppression of others with opposing views. Sorry, but that's yet another hole the Catholic Church dug for itself all by itself.