Do you get treated like an idiot?

[Budthestud]

Often, when I say something, I will be heavily criticized or corrected. However, most of the time I feel as if my attacker is missing the point slightly (also possible that the attack is some political move).

Now, rarely would I ever actually change my argument because usually I think them out quite thoroughly (usually), but I often times question myself. Like, if I come to the same conclusion twice it is possible that I just don't understand the situation.

Too many times when I am introduced to a social theatre I am branded an idiot. I don't think that I am an idiot, but it happens so often that I can't help but ask "Is it true?". Anyone else feel this way?


EDIT: btw I am asking this to prove to myself that I am not lol.

 

[Hadoblado]

How socially competent are you?

 

[Budthestud]

How socially competent are you?

Not very, but I make an effort . I agree that this would play a part, but there is no way that there isn't more to it. I don't think that I am that socially incompetent that, as soon as I open my mouth, I alienate everyone around me

 

[StevenM]

Yes.

Everything is always perfect in my head. At my own pace, and by myself, I can come up with smart solutions. Doing these things as a team however, I feel pressured and stressed. Usually what I vocalize during the effort, sounds 'off' and dumb to the other people.

I just like doing things on my own. At my own pace and leisure, I can be a good problem solver.

 

[Pyropyro]

Packaging is part of sending your idea. I think you should shape your ideas for your target group's consumption so that your objectives would be met.

 

[Helvete]

I'v been labelled as a 'retarded genius' and been ridiculed but respected at the same time. People are weird.

 

[redbaron]

Judging from your signature, user title and the fact that you use one of your own memes as your avatar - you're probably more socially incompetent than you realize.

If people's standard response to you speaking is to criticize or correct you, what sort of things are you saying and how do you say them? While some people are overly touchy about many things, I think it's fair to say the majority of people don't go out of their way to criticize or correct people.

 

[Hadoblado]

manyedits rb x many

 

[Budthestud]

Judging from your signature you probably are an idiot.

If you are serious about this then I think you are proving my point I agree that I broke the rules of grammar, however, my intention was for it to be of a trolly/fun/epic nature.

 

[Brontosaurie]

If you are serious about this then I think you are proving my point I agree that I broke the rules of grammar, however, my intention was for it to be of a trolly/fun/epic nature.

this is cute

give up trying to get intellectual respect. that's for the INTJ's. go for cute.

 

[Budthestud]

It's a god damn conspiracy!

 

[redbaron]

If you are serious about this then I think you are proving my point I agree that I broke the rules of grammar, however, my intention was for it to be of a trolly/fun/epic nature.

I'm aware of the intention. I just don't think you realize that it's really not trolly/fun/epic to anyone outside of the particular subculture and even then it's not even funny.

Here on the forum you label yourself as a, "bad ass motherfucker" and openly display your attempts at creating trolly/fun/epic (your words) memes for us to see. You even display one of them as your avatar.

The point being not that I think you're stupid, but I can see how you probably come across that way in real life.

 

[Hadoblado]

I wouldn't have said it half the ways RB did, but your memes are bad and you should feel bad I fail to appreciate your no doubt sophisticated humour.

How old are you?

What SES are you?

What's the popularity of your friends?

Do you subscribe to an unpopular belief system?

Are you open about your beliefs (no matter what they are)?

Are you judgemental?

Do you think people around you are inferior in any way to yourself?

 

[peoplesuck]

Not to be a dick but, if you're intelligence is constantly questioned you may not be to bright.( <--may not apply if you are in a position of power) I also have that clear image in my mind that i cant really get across with words.
and to answer the OP no i dont really get treated in any way.

 

[Base groove]

Here's an observation:

When a person makes a thread about how they measure up other people, intelligence-wise, they are immediately and rigorously tested by whomever responds, and there is a bias that develops, which gains momentum as people add more energy to it.

Unless you're prepared to respond to the rigorous testing with swift, potent, virile responses, you'd better not even imply anything about how smart u r.

That being said, I would personally refer back to TMills27 and Helvete, as their responses more effectively illustrate my own previous experiences.

 

[Duxwing]

Whether Bud's environment or nature causes this phenomenon can be decided empirically by controlling for the former: when he next feels the urge to debate here, he should note how he is received relative to comparable posters. If his nature is not the cause, then he would receive response like theirs because the forum accepts such eccentric intellectuals as he and they would be; whereas if he is worse received, then his nature is.

-Duxwing

 

[Base groove]

Whether Bud's environment or nature causes this phenomenon can be decided empirically by controlling for the former: when he next feels the urge to debate here, he should note how he is received relative to comparable posters. If his nature is not the cause, then he would receive response like theirs because the forum accepts such eccentric intellectuals as he and they would be; whereas if he is worse received, then his nature is.

How does posting on INTPforum control the environment to make such an empirical determination?

Now would be a good time to reflect upon your Wikipedian Problem and see if you can make some connections, particularly: is your analysis of Bud's situation broadly applicable?

 

[Absurdity]

Nope never had that problem. Was introduced by my friend at a party last night as the "smartest motherfucker" he knows.

Maybe you just need dumber friends.

The difficulty of obtaining them, however, will depend on which tail of the bell curve you sit on.

 

[Pyropyro]

Hmmm... How about something to work with?

Post an argument that you used IRL which caused your audience to treat you as an idiot.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Hm nah I never get treated like an idiot. I think some people find me an idiot because they don't like my detached humor and unserious behavior, and think me an annoying childish prick. Still I am verbal and somewhat sharp too as well as hard to label, so I think that the people who think I'm an idiot do not dare tell it to my face.

 

[Base groove]

Hm nah I never get treated like an idiot. I think some people find me an idiot because they don't like my detached humor and unserious behavior, and think me an annoying childish prick. Still I am verbal and somewhat sharp too as well as hard to label, so I think that the people who think I'm an idiot do not dare tell it to my face.

Yeah I don't think he said people tell him this to his face.

He said he infers that he is being treated this way and he believes the reason why is because he is inarticulate (or, grossly over-articulate).

Simply, people don't follow along with INTPs very well. "Economy of words" may be a trait, yes, but so is explaining things to the very core of explanation, because any statement which is even slightly ambiguous NEEDS clarification and explanation, hence, further explanation, and on and on, until they totally don't get what the fuck he's talking about, (which is ironically the exact opposite of what he wanted).

At least, that's what I got from it.

Also, like Absurdity pointed out, I have also been introduced as the "smartest motherfucker ...." so really it just goes to show that the assessment of another's intelligence is basically subjective and totally dependent on the intelligence of the subject.

But yes, redbaron has called me an idiot 5-6x or more, so occasionally I do get treated like an idiot on INTPforum. According to Duxwing's imperial logic, this probably means I am objectively an idiot.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Well I don't get treated like an idiot either, the people who think I'm one don't show it, or at least they don't mean to, it's just sometimes you can tell -when someones being neutral in their facial expression and/or quiets down- that they are hiding disapproval. The point is, don't care about the plebs and just do your thing anyway and while you're doing it work on communication. Don't work on communication by not doing your thing. You won't learn anything truly useful.

 

[Base groove]

Well I don't get treated like an idiot either, the people who think I'm one don't show it, or at least they don't mean to, it's just sometimes you can tell -when someones being neutral in their facial expression and/or quiets down- that they are hiding disapproval. The point is, don't care about the plebs and just do your thing anyway and while you're doing it work on communication. Don't work on communication by not doing your thing. You won't learn anything truly useful.

Fine, but I don't see how this really applies to the needs of the OP. It doesn't directly address the situation, it's just a stock answer for how one can respond after the fact. I think he's trying to get a picture of the problem not the solution.

 

[Riiscup]

No. I don't get treated like an idiot. And if anyone attempted to, I wouldn't tolerate it and I'd flip that switch pretty quickly.

But, I think I kind of know what you mean. For me, it seems some people just don't get me. I do tend to give too much information when I speak because I try to be thorough in all of my explanations. I have probably anticipated any questions anyone would have before I say something and I try to word my comments in a way that answers any potential question. Sometimes this is just too much for some people. I end up covering stuff they never would have thought about and its like overload for them and they don't know how to respond. (at least that's how it appears to me) Sometimes, when I am in the midst of people who I know won't get me or what I am talking about, or if I know my response may offend someone, I may not respond at all or give a vague response and that may come off as if I am an idiot to some, but I feel like its better for them and me that I don't respond even if they may think I'm simple for it.

I also feel the need to mention my son who I suspect is an INTP. He gets on everyones nerves and my older son calls him an idiot all the time. But when he calls him idiot, I think he really should just be calling him an asshole because its not so much what the younger brother has said, but how he said it. He speaks in a way that makes people feel dumb. He talks as if he knows everything and everyone else is so stupid for not seeing things his way which, of course, is the only way that makes sense. I think, he is absolutely like me in my younger years so I get him, but most don't.

 

[doncarlzone]

It doesn't necessarily take an idiot to come off as an idiot. Sometimes it only takes a humble ego.

 

[Duxwing]

How does posting on INTPforum control the environment to make such an empirical determination?

I already explained why posting on INTPforum controls the environment: "the forum accepts such eccentric intellectuals as he," whereas his peers may perceive eccentricity as idiocy. Hence my conclusion that if even we think him stupid, then his likely eccentricity is almost certainly not to blame.

Now would be a good time to reflect upon your Wikipedian Problem and see if you can make some connections, particularly: is your analysis of Bud's situation broadly applicable?

If you have an accusation to make, then have the courage to make it openly.

-Duxwing

 

[Variform]

I'm aware of the intention. I just don't think you realize that it's really not trolly/fun/epic to anyone outside of the particular subculture and even then it's not even funny.

Here on the forum you label yourself as a, "bad ass motherfucker" and openly display your attempts at creating trolly/fun/epic (your words) memes for us to see. You even display one of them as your avatar.

The point being not that I think you're stupid, but I can see how you probably come across that way in real life.

How shallow.

 

[Variform]

Not to be a dick but, if you're intelligence is constantly questioned you may not be to bright.( <--may not apply if you are in a position of power) I also have that clear image in my mind that i cant really get across with words.
and to answer the OP no i dont really get treated in any way.

How naive to think that people are honest. Likelier he is intelligent and people won't accept him for it. Now that does sounds more logical to me. Never heard of social groups all happily agreeing with each other. For his social group to be 'honest' about his intelligence seems far fetched.

 

[Variform]

I also feel the need to mention my son who I suspect is an INTP. He gets on everyones nerves and my older son calls him an idiot all the time. But when he calls him idiot, I think he really should just be calling him an asshole because its not so much what the younger brother has said, but how he said it. He speaks in a way that makes people feel dumb. He talks as if he knows everything and everyone else is so stupid for not seeing things his way which, of course, is the only way that makes sense. I think, he is absolutely like me in my younger years so I get him, but most don't.

And so you tell the older one to respect his brother I hope? And you teach the younger new ways to communicate?

 

[Base groove]

I already explained why posting on INTPforum controls the environment: "the forum accepts such eccentric intellectuals as he," whereas his peers may perceive eccentricity as idiocy. Hence my conclusion that if even we think him stupid, then his likely eccentricity is almost certainly not to blame.

And my point is that the forum is not qualified to sufficiently fill the role as an objective or empirical determinant of one's intelligence, given that the population here is not overwhelmingly representative of any particular traits you'd wish to isolate or control in order to effectively manipulate the environment to make a sound empirical determination.

The idea that a forum of voluntary membership is an objective standard that can be used to weigh the intelligence of its membership in a rigorous empirical fashion is totally laughable because it's just self-serving. There are nigh 5000 members here and less than 10% of that is 'active', less than 10% of that is active, and who among us is worthy of such credibility?

If you have an accusation to make, then have the courage to make it openly.

Um,... ok... too soon have you forgotten your own recent experience with 'the forum' exhibiting the bias against its own membership, which I've attempted to elucidate in this thread. I accuse you of being too loose with giving the forum's membership the credibility it needs to make such objective determinations as to whether a person is an idiot or an eccentric.

 

[Jennywocky]

who among us is worthy of such credibility?

welllll... it's a sucky job, but I'm willing to take one for the team if need be.

(also not sure if idiot and eccentric are mutually exclusive)

 

[Grayman]

I think your attempts at proving yourself "Not and Idiot" by seeking evidence to a higher intelligence are making people uncomfortable. In many cases, by trying to prove that you are not an idiot, you may be making them feel as if you are trying to say they are dumb.

Likely they will try to confront you and bring you back down to their level.

for example: I could tell everyone that I am an INTP and that means I am a smart mother fucker who can think outside the box.
I am basically saying that most people who are not INTP are dumb asses who are stuck inside the box.

 

[Riiscup]

Thanks Jenny, someone had to do it!!

Yes Variform, I don't tolerate name calling between them at all and I try my best to help my younger son with his delivery. Most times, I agree with whatever his observation is and have had to learn to chuckle inwardly for the sake of the older son so I don't appear to condone the perceived assholish delivery. I truly believe that he is simply saying what he's thinking and not intentionally trying to make anyone feel any sort of way. My younger son never just allows himself to be called any name either, they usually get into an argument and I have to mediate when they go too far. Typical love-hate sibling rivalry stuff.

 

[Riiscup]

I don't know if that is true Grayman.

That would be assuming that most people believe there is only one type of smart. You can be a smart motherfucking INTP and someone else can be a smart motherfucking other type. Just because one exists doesn't automatically mean the other does not and I don't believe most people see things in the way you've exampled it.

I think the part that would get people is the need to constantly announce that you are a smart motherfucker. That's like someone who is pretty running around saying "I'm pretty" all the time. It may be true, but its annoying to hear them proclaim it especially if it's constant and you start to think, hmmmm, this is an idiot!

BTW, I realize we are not talking about you specifically, I am just carrying along your example.

 

[Grayman]

I don't know if that is true Grayman.

That would be assuming that most people believe there is only one type of smart. You can be a smart motherfucking INTP and someone else can be a smart motherfucking other type. Just because one exists doesn't automatically mean the other does not and I don't believe most people see things in the way you've exampled it.

The argument is not about most people but instead who he spends most of his time with. I am assuming he is seeking intellectual validation from individuals closer to his mental maturity and age.

Adults are likely to consist of two groups. One being the one you stated and the other who does not put that much thought into it and simple deems it as socially inappropriate.

There are any number of possibilities of what people think... it is situational and dependent on culture, age group, and the person.

I think the part that would get people is the need to constantly announce that you are a smart motherfucker. That's like someone who is pretty running around saying "I'm pretty" all the time. It may be true, but its annoying to hear them proclaim it especially if it's constant and you start to think, hmmmm, this is an idiot!

Yeah....I personally would not think they are an idiot. I would likely determine they directly link their confidence with looks/intelligence. I would determine they are looking for validation. An arrogant person is more likely to just tell everyone they are wrong and to stop being so stupid. A person who feels their confidence is constantly threatened needs to constantly seek validation. They will state why they think they are so smart and hope someone shows some form of agreement or some other form of validation. People are not likely to respond in the way that the individual wants. These people likely don't understand what the individual is doing or why or they would tell the individual that looks/intelligence are but a part of what makes them a unique and important individual and they are not the most important thing they have to offer.

BTW, I realize we are not talking about you specifically, I am just carrying along your example.

I normally don't try to validate my intelligence, even to myself, I 'know' I am a smart motherfucker and to question it means I don't know that. I don't want to belie my arrogance by committing to an obsessive need to point out my abundant intelligence to myself and others.

... I hope I said that right...

 

[Budthestud]

Good talks guys I definitely feel better and appreciate all comments both good, bad, edited or yet to be posted.

 

[Duxwing]

And my point is that the forum is not qualified to sufficiently fill the role as an objective or empirical determinant of one's intelligence, given that the population here is not overwhelmingly representative of any particular traits you'd wish to isolate or control in order to effectively manipulate the environment to make a sound empirical determination.

The idea that a forum of voluntary membership is an objective standard that can be used to weigh the intelligence of its membership in a rigorous empirical fashion is totally laughable because it's just self-serving. There are nigh 5000 members here and less than 10% of that is 'active', less than 10% of that is active, and who among us is worthy of such credibility?

I seek not to prove whether Bud is intelligent or not but rather to disprove that he is perceived idiotic in all environments: this forum would be a good test environment because it, unlike his meatspace environment, would not misperceive his likely eccentricity as stupidity.

Um,... ok... too soon have you forgotten your own recent experience with 'the forum' exhibiting the bias against its own membership, which I've attempted to elucidate in this thread. I accuse you of being too loose with giving the forum's membership the credibility it needs to make such objective determinations as to whether a person is an idiot or an eccentric.

Thanks. Fortunately, I seek not that determination.

-Duxwing

 

[EditorOne]

Show the work:
Sometimes we are misunderstood because we don't connect the dots that lead to our conclusion. And sometimes we do that because we haven't even articulated the dots in our own heads. It's one aspect or facet of the "intuitive" part of our nature, the step-by-step takes place without our notice.
It's often quite hard to go back and reconstruct the steps in order to lead people to your conclusion. Quite frustrating, too.
The only way I got reasonably good at it was writing editorials for a newspaper; with every word scrutinized by colleagues and editors, all of them sensors, I got pretty good at what I call "showing the work" like it was an algebra equation in school and the teacher wouldn't accept just the answer.

 

[Pyropyro]

Show the work:
Sometimes we are misunderstood because we don't connect the dots that lead to our conclusion. And sometimes we do that because we haven't even articulated the dots in our own heads. It's one aspect or facet of the "intuitive" part of our nature, the step-by-step takes place without our notice.
It's often quite hard to go back and reconstruct the steps in order to lead people to your conclusion. Quite frustrating, too.
The only way I got reasonably good at it was writing editorials for a newspaper; with every word scrutinized by colleagues and editors, all of them sensors, I got pretty good at what I call "showing the work" like it was an algebra equation in school and the teacher wouldn't accept just the answer.

I agree. In my field I add references from academic articles to my presentations instead.

 

[Duxwing]

I agree. In my field I add references from academic articles to my presentations instead.

I suspect that reviewers of Works Cited pages have instead of learning quick verification of sources learned quick estimation of paper mass. Perhaps I should therefore write Principia Essayica with the First Law of Essays being, "cum auctoritas, cum veritas," or "as sources, so truth."

-Duxwing

 

[Riiscup]

The argument is not about most people but instead who he spends most of his time with. I am assuming he is seeking intellectual validation from individuals closer to his mental maturity and age.

Yeah, I don't have much information on who he spends his time with specifically or what his mental maturity and age is so I just kept in general, as in, what the general population I have encountered tends to do. When you start adding more specific variables like culture, age group, and the person then yes, circumstances and outcomes change.

Adults are likely to consist of two groups. One being the one you stated and the other who does not put that much thought into it and simple deems it as socially inappropriate.

I am referring to the ones who don't give it much thought when I say that they will just think he's and idiot instead of contemplating why he is doing what he is doing.

There are any number of possibilities of what people think... it is situational and dependent on culture, age group, and the person.

Yes, there are any number of possiblities, but in my opinion, the greatest percentage of people will just think, this guy is an idiot.

Yeah....I personally would not think they are an idiot. I would likely determine they directly link their confidence with looks/intelligence. I would determine they are looking for validation. An arrogant person is more likely to just tell everyone they are wrong and to stop being so stupid. A person who feels their confidence is constantly threatened needs to constantly seek validation. They will state why they think they are so smart and hope someone shows some form of agreement or some other form of validation. People are not likely to respond in the way that the individual wants. These people likely don't understand what the individual is doing or why or they would tell the individual that looks/intelligence are but a part of what makes them a unique and important individual and they are not the most important thing they have to offer.

Uhm, yeah. I wouldn't personally think they are an idiot either, in fact, I might even offer up some validation for them and then try to carry it further by trying to look for what else they have to offer. I might say, "that's a great observation so smart guy, let's exchange ideas about that" or I'm not really into that topic, what do you think about this". Or, "yeah you are really pretty, where did you go to school, what do you do for a living?" That's just me though. I would want to get a better picture of where the person's head is.

I normally don't try to validate my intelligence, even to myself, I 'know' I am a smart motherfucker and to question it means I don't know that. I don't want to belie my arrogance by committing to an obsessive need to point out my abundant intelligence to myself and others.

... I hope I said that right...

Totally get what you're saying. You said it right if what you said was what you were trying to say!

 

[Rook]

@Bud:
I approached the problem in an alternative way by viewing your previous posts.
I have come to a few conclusions:
-You seem to not be an idiot.
-You have an above average intelligence, not genial though.
-You seem to be heavily influenced by the people you interact with IRL,
trying hard to base your social interactions and parts of your personality on the ways they act.
-You play chess, as do I.

This is just my perception based on your posts.
I may be wrong, I may be right.
Do with it as you wish.

 

[Budthestud]

@Bud:

-You play chess, as do I.

you rated?
me = 2082 uscf

 

[onewithinhimself]

I used to feel that way with people, later I figured out that an awful lot of people are imbecile.