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JansenDowel
19th-October-2014, 02:08 AM
Us INTP's are perfectionists of thought. We are constantly in pursuit of "better" strategies; finding ways to make "thinking and learning" faster and more efficient. One way we achieve this is through the creation of very abstract mental categories.

My question is: will learning either of these help with my pursuit of abstract perfectionism?

Teax
19th-October-2014, 02:44 AM
in other words: learning logic. (EDIT: sry I personally call all that just logic)

IMHO it's essential for a clear understanding of what you think you understand. This is the tool if you want to elevate your Ti thinking to a conscious level, so you know wth is happening when you think certain things. and maybe even more importantly: so you know your limits. logic is the function of the brain like filtering blood is the function of the liver, so it makes sence to learn logic, like a manual to your brain. (thank you for purchasing our new product, the neuronmaster-5000, this tutorial will make you accustomed with the basic functions ;) ) conciousness and self awareness alone is not enough if you want to build complex models of what you perceive as reality. you will be forced to constantly reworking them with your Ti untill finally reinventing a subset of model theory anyway, heh, so why not do it in the first place, right? and spare yourself a lot of time

for example, the very reason I believe people that are good programmers and fast learners in abstract fields are so because of personally and tediously reinventing model theory (reinventing the wheel so to speak), or having it forced upon them in college or wherever and understood its implications on our minds. I however do not believe the mathematic notations are always intuitive. You need to build your own intuitive/personal/deep/clear understanding of the concepts. which means: I'm not necessarily proposing to learn model theory's notation and terminology. It's the concepts behind all that that are essential (well that should be obvious)

JansenDowel
19th-October-2014, 02:53 AM
you will be forced to constantly reworking them with your Ti untill finally reinventing a subset of model theory anyway, heh, so why not do it in the first place, right? and spare yourself a lot of time


Wonderful! Can we be friends?

Do you know where one might learn to "reinvent" the wheel quickly?

Teax
19th-October-2014, 02:57 AM
Wonderful! Can we be friends?

if you define 'friend' I might be capable to answer that question :^^:'

Do you know where one might learn to "reinvent" the wheel quickly?

I'd say more than enough time in school... reinventing the wheel is not quickly by definition. I mean what's faster, reading about how a lightbulb works, or inventing one yourself?

JansenDowel
19th-October-2014, 03:11 AM
I mean what's faster, reading about how a lightbulb works, or inventing one yourself?

Oh yes. Agreed. I was referring to intuition.

Teax
19th-October-2014, 06:16 AM
what is intuitive understanding? its the subconscious. it's the obvious.

how to gain it? a concrete example should make it clear:

why A -> B is the same as ČB -> ČA ? launch your Ne, imagine some examples like
A=All people are crazy -> B=I am crazy
A=it's raining everyday -> B=it's raining now
ČB=it's not raining now -> ČA=it's not raining everyday
now use all your mental arsenal, visualize, Ti over it again and again, take it apart and try to disprove it, do whatever it takes untill you are sure that it cannot be any other way, it becomes obvious <-- that's the subconscious giving you feedback.
you might realize you knew/suspected it all along, just never this explicitely. With some concepts you might even think 'oh great I didnt actually learn anything new'. but none of it is new anyway...

JansenDowel
20th-October-2014, 07:23 AM
what is intuitive understanding? its the subconscious. it's the obvious.

how to gain it? a concrete example should make it clear:

why A -> B is the same as ČB -> ČA ? launch your Ne, imagine some examples like
A=All people are crazy -> B=I am crazy
A=it's raining everyday -> B=it's raining now
ČB=it's not raining now -> ČA=it's not raining everyday
now use all your mental arsenal, visualize, Ti over it again and again, take it apart and try to disprove it, do whatever it takes untill you are sure that it cannot be any other way, it becomes obvious <-- that's the subconscious giving you feedback.
you might realize you knew/suspected it all along, just never this explicitely. With some concepts you might even think 'oh great I didnt actually learn anything new'. but none of it is new anyway...

Ah yes; that makes sense. This should be fun! :D Thanks heaps for replying!