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Architect
19th-April-2014, 05:29 PM
The "New Girl" thread, by "Wrestler Girl" no less (or some variation) prompted this. I've wondered for a long time why women feel compelled to identify themselves as female on the internet. It dates back to the early days even, back then you'd see "techguurl" and such nonsense. You rarely see "techguy" or variations.

redbaron
19th-April-2014, 05:31 PM
Everyone automatically assumes people on the internet are male, unless otherwise indicated.

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 05:33 PM
Probably because they are used to being identified as women when they communicate and everyone assume people on the internet are male.

Of course it can be done to get special treatment as well.

redbaron
19th-April-2014, 05:34 PM
It's also to annoy Architect specifically.

Wrestler Girl 97
19th-April-2014, 05:37 PM
Why shouldn't we identify ourselves as male or female?

I just don't like knowing whether or not someone is a male or female. If you know them as male or female, then it makes it easier to know whether you should say he, she, his, her, all those words.

Hawkeye
19th-April-2014, 05:43 PM
There is a member browsing the forum right now called TheManBeyond. :rolleyes:

The Void
19th-April-2014, 06:30 PM
They are actually males identifying as females to troll everyone...

Analyzer
19th-April-2014, 06:53 PM
Feminism(and its influence direct or indirect) in general has been huge in the last 50+ years or so. Men are irreplaceable, prone to violence while woman are special and need to be considered so. Look at recent Hollywood movies for evidence.

Jennywocky
19th-April-2014, 07:13 PM
It's also to annoy Architect specifically.

It's true. I wouldn't call myself Jimmywocky if my name were James... but I enjoy the deep shade of crimson that rolls over Architect's avatar when he becomes perplexed.

There is a member browsing the forum right now called TheManBeyond. :rolleyes:

... which maybe means the question is why men don't notice when men specify their gender in their userid but they are very quick to notice when a woman does it?


As an aside, I get more annoyed when someone puts their MBTI type in their userid.

Architect
19th-April-2014, 07:20 PM
It's also to annoy Architect specifically.

It's grist for the mill ... It's not annoyance actually but a long standing observation I'm building on.

Why shouldn't we identify ourselves as male or female?

That wasn't the question. Women do it more than men, why?

They are actually males identifying as females to troll everyone...

This is quite common, especially on Google+ on non-U.S. accounts.

Architect's point shouldn't be missed, that more often, women identify themselves as women on the web, why do they feel the need to do this?

Precisely. The series of posts I've made about women is to point out that they're their own worst enemy.

TimeAsylums
19th-April-2014, 07:21 PM
Which women get the most tips($)?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_705-Iz874wo/TA_kWM72WTI/AAAAAAAAAoA/USIy837G0zQ/s1600/31482-hi-HootersGirls_Cake.jpg


Can I get an order of wings, yes, female privilege and feminism flavored plz? ok thnx


:cat:

Architect's point shouldn't be missed, that more often, women identify themselves as women on the web, why do they feel the need to do this?

as opposed to anonymity like everyone else.



...they don't want equality...they want to identify their superiority :phear: how much they can dominate the male mind simply by identifying as female.

Jennywocky
19th-April-2014, 07:23 PM
oh, stop trolling.

(and making excuses to show breasts. :p)

TimeAsylums
19th-April-2014, 07:25 PM
why women feel compelled to identify themselves as female on the internet [as opposed to anonymity]



making excuses to show breasts. :p

This^ is why they identify as female!!!!!!!

kaelum
19th-April-2014, 07:29 PM
Architect's point shouldn't be missed, that more often, women identify themselves as women on the web, why do they feel the need to do this?

as opposed to anonymity like everyone else.


...they don't want equality...they want to identify their superiority :phear: how much they can dominate the male mind simply by identifying as female.

Uh, I'll try to take this seriously----what female superiority? I'm of the opinion I'd have an easier life as a male. I don't mind sharing that I'm female because I'm used to the social rules that women operate in and I'm not comfortable pretending to leer at half-naked people in order to fit in.

TimeAsylums
19th-April-2014, 07:31 PM
Uh, I'll try to take this seriously----what female superiority?

People $ u2Sex

I don't mind sharing that I'm female because I'm used to the social rules that women operate in

That's the point, this is a different social atmosphere that you don't HAVE to operate in those rules, you COULD have (gender)anonymity.


They demand we know they are female :phear:

Jennywocky
19th-April-2014, 07:35 PM
Figured I'd give a little bit of data from the actual userlist here. Here's the tally for various strings in the usernames:

Girl = 28
Guy = 30

man = 44
woman = 2

male = 3
female = 1

Not sure what the gender balance on the forum that is.

(For "man," I got about 150 hits, so I read each one and only counted the ones where the string seems to purposefully designate gender and isn't some nod to a popular character. Give it a +-5 spread there.)

"Girl" seems abnormally high for percentage of women.
"Man" seems abnormally high for males.

But really, how many of the steady and known women posters on this forum have a girl or woman in their name? Polaris, cavallier, loveofreason, etc.

This^ is why they identify as female!!!!!!!

Why, so you can beg for T&A shots? Wowzers.

RadicalDreamer31
19th-April-2014, 07:36 PM
http://i.imgur.com/3TY3Aya.png

...Maybe. But probably they just have no reason to hide who they are. I doubt anyone considers the advantages or disadvantages of identifying their gender. It's besides the point in their own mind.

kaelum
19th-April-2014, 07:37 PM
People $ u2Sex


That's the point, this is a different social atmosphere that you don't HAVE to operate in those rules, you COULD have (gender)anonymity.


They demand we know they are female :phear:

I don't want anonymity. True equality comes from being able to not hide who you are and still get equal treatment. See the repercussions of the "don't ask, don't tell" the U.S. military went through over a decade ago.

TimeAsylums
19th-April-2014, 07:40 PM
http://i.imgur.com/3TY3Aya.png

+1

The Gopher
19th-April-2014, 07:46 PM
I predict 6 seasons and a movie for this thread.

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 07:47 PM
It's grist for the mill ... It's not annoyance actually but a long standing observation I'm building on.



That wasn't the question. Women do it more than men, why?



This is quite common, especially on Google+ on non-U.S. accounts.



Precisely. The series of posts I've made about women is to point out that they're their own worst enemy.

What is so difficult to understand about it?

-Men are the norm on most places online. So if you don't want people to assume you're a man you've gotta be up front about it. Women just like men are used to socializing with their sexes known up front, nothing particularly strange there.

-There are pros and cons to being a woman online. Depending on what you are out for stating that you are a woman can make get you to where you want easier.

And how do you know that more women than men are up front about their sex when being anonymous=being a man? I think it is the case as well, but how do you know the ratio? How would you know an anonymous female to be female?

And what do you mean by "own worst enemy"?

paradoxparadigm7
19th-April-2014, 07:50 PM
http://i.imgur.com/3TY3Aya.png

To allow your dick to rule you...This is and should be degrading to you. An admission that you'll do anything for pussy. Get the fuck out.

kaelum
19th-April-2014, 07:53 PM
*shrugs*

TimeAsylums, you're really of the opinion that men have harder lives than women in general? If having T and A were enough of an advantage, then how is it that most of the richest people in the world are men? (and why is gynecomastia such an insult)

RadicalDreamer31
19th-April-2014, 07:53 PM
An admission that you'll do anything for pussy
This implies that it is the pussy that rules

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 07:53 PM
Ya'll gotta start by imagining how it would be like if people assumed ya'll were female.

RadicalDreamer31
19th-April-2014, 07:55 PM
Ya'll gotta start by imagining how it would be like if people assumed ya'll were female.

I like free stuff.

paradoxparadigm7
19th-April-2014, 07:57 PM
The "New Girl" thread, by "Wrestler Girl" no less (or some variation) prompted this. I've wondered for a long time why women feel compelled to identify themselves as female on the internet. It dates back to the early days even, back then you'd see "techguurl" and such nonsense. You rarely see "techguy" or variations.

I've not seen any evidence of women identifying themselves as female in the Internet and even if this is the case, is it statistically significant? Even if it is, the conclusions reached here is only one explanation. Were is the Ne?

paradoxparadigm7
19th-April-2014, 07:59 PM
This implies that it is the pussy that rules

No, a penis is always attached to a guy...

RadicalDreamer31
19th-April-2014, 08:00 PM
Where is the Ne? This argument is so old, so ridiculous, so unresolvable...

Let's throw more wood on the fire shall we.
http://i.imgur.com/qIJG2Gj.png

TimeAsylums
19th-April-2014, 08:05 PM
To allow your dick to rule you...This is and should be degrading to you. An admission that you'll do anything for pussy. Get the fuck out.

To allow testosterone and our biological proclivities, oh no.

paradoxparadigm7
19th-April-2014, 08:10 PM
To allow testosterone and our biological proclivities, oh no.

Missing my point. Females have biological proclivities too. The difference is what do you allow to rule over you? Are you a man or a boy/a girl or a women? I'm talking about maturity and self mastery. (hint* that doesn't mean denying your maleness/femaleness).

Adaire
19th-April-2014, 08:12 PM
It is often relevant to discussion or experience. Men identify themselves just as frequently, but 'male' is normal and expected so no one notices. You quite frequently identify yourself, Architect. Pretty much every post you've ever made, quite forcefully, identifies you as a heterosexual male. Very few posters, male or female, don't betray their gender at some point. Your perspective/attention is where the difference lies.

I don't understand why women are expected to deny their own existence. We exist. The internet is not a boy's club. It is not reasonable to expect them to lie or to habitually conceal their natures; because being female is somehow abnormal.

You might notice that english doesn't really lend itself for precluding gender from normal conversation. In fact you can identify many females by the lengths they go avoid revealing their sex in normal conversation; men typically won't feel the need to do so. I am open about my gender, when relevant, because I recognize the need to normalize being female on the internet and I am distinctly interested in conversing with females with similar natures to mine. It's some imaginary, petty demand on the males that is 'observed.'

Base groove
19th-April-2014, 08:14 PM
I just don't like knowing whether or not someone is a male or female.

This does not make sense in the context of your post, at all.


Are you a man or a boy/a girl or a women?

Neither does this.


Pretty much every post you've ever made, quite forcefully, identifies you as a heterosexual male.

This is bull.


I've not seen any evidence of women identifying themselves as female in the Internet

You must not have read the post you were replying to...

Jennywocky
19th-April-2014, 08:16 PM
I predict 6 seasons and a movie for this thread.

Don't forget the action figures and collectible card game.

TimeAsylums
19th-April-2014, 08:16 PM
I don't understand why women are expected to deny their own existence.

No one is expected to. nor identify neither.

This does not make sense in the context of your post, at all.



Neither does this.


@BG IS IN THIS SHIT!!!!

TimeAsylums
19th-April-2014, 08:18 PM
I predict 6 seasons and a movie for this thread.

Don't forget the action figures and collectible card game.

Forum right now:

http://www.troll.me/images/blood-for-the-blood-god/blood-for-the-blood-god-let-the-universe-drown-in-it.jpg^

paradoxparadigm7
19th-April-2014, 08:19 PM
This does not make sense in the context of your post, at all.



Neither does this.

I was responding to TA's post "To allow testosterone and our biological proclivities, oh no." What doesn't make sense?

paradoxparadigm7
19th-April-2014, 08:22 PM
You must not have read the post you were replying to...

Archetict didn't provide evidence. It was his observation. I was commenting on this

Base groove
19th-April-2014, 08:26 PM
I was responding to TA's post "To allow testosterone and our biological proclivities, oh no." What doesn't make sense?

Well I will be honest ... "women" is plural. "A women" is not a noun.

Archetict didn't provide evidence. It was his observation. I was commenting on this

Observations are evidence. He did provide evidence. Do you know what evidence is?

Jennywocky
19th-April-2014, 08:26 PM
...even if this is the case, is it statistically significant? Even if it is, the conclusions reached here is only one explanation?

Archetict didn't provide evidence. It was his observation. I was commenting on this

Well, I actually bothered to provide some hard figures suggesting maybe his observation about usernames wasn't quite right, which everyone immediately ignored... which I find amusing.

Looks like people are just itching for an arena fight, accuracy of thesis be damned.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/popcorn.gif

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 08:30 PM
No one is expected to. nor identify neither.


Right but as Adaire said sex is coded into language. And we express our own sex more than we are aware that we do. Architect expresses the fact that he is a heterosexual male frequently, does that mean he feels the need to express that he is a heterosexual male?

And what then is the thread really about anyway? Names that express gender? Aren't they quite trivial seeing as sex tends to surface anyway?

paradoxparadigm7
19th-April-2014, 08:32 PM
Well, I actually bothered to provide some hard figures suggesting maybe his observation about usernames wasn't quite right, which everyone immediately ignored... which I find amusing.

Looks like people are just itching for an arena fight, accuracy of thesis be damned.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/popcorn.gif

Thank you for drawing my attention to your count!

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 08:32 PM
Well, I actually bothered to provide some hard figures suggesting maybe his observation about usernames wasn't quite right, which everyone immediately ignored... which I find amusing.

Looks like people are just itching for an arena fight, accuracy of thesis be damned.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/popcorn.gif

If you apply a little sociolinguistic analysis to usernames the amount of names indicating male are like 10x those that imply female.

Base groove
19th-April-2014, 08:34 PM
Well, I actually bothered to provide some hard figures suggesting maybe his observation about usernames wasn't quite right, which everyone immediately ignored... which I find amusing.

Looks like people are just itching for an arena fight, accuracy of thesis be damned.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/popcorn.gif

Pish posh. It wasn't ignored. It wasn't representative of the internet in general either.

Your 'hard figures' suggested very little except that people of both sexes readily identify their genders.

Note how I am not saying he's right.

Brash speculation based on personal observation is about as scientific as he's gonna get.....

Anyway, yes ... arena battle... I want it.

paradoxparadigm7
19th-April-2014, 08:34 PM
Observations are evidence. He did provide evidence. Do you know what evidence is?

Thanks for clarifying. I'm officially schooled by the term 'evidence'.:king-twitter:

BigApplePi
19th-April-2014, 08:38 PM
Everyone automatically assumes people on the internet are male, unless otherwise indicated.
I right away assumed you were female. Did I get it rong? ... Oh. baron, not baroness. I guess I did get it wrong.:D

Jennywocky
19th-April-2014, 08:44 PM
I right away assumed you were female. Did I get it rong? ... Oh. baron, not baroness. I guess I did get it wrong.:D

I guess the bloomers could be confusing.

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 08:45 PM
In this thread...

Indicating male sex:

Architect
Redbaron
Base Groove
TimeAsylums
Analyzer
The Void
Hawkeye
Paradoxparadigm7
Kaelum
Radicaldreamer

Gender neutral:

Gopher
Cherry Cola

Indicating female:

Jennywocky
Wrestler_Girl_97
Adaire

Gender and sex are not only expressed in absolutes or in whether we call one another he or she and the like. Statistically it also decide what type of language we use at large, our mannerisms, how we try to impress others, how we try to appear to others and by what means. Overt and covert prestige usage among other things.

TimeAsylums
19th-April-2014, 08:47 PM
In this thread...

Indicating male sex:

Redbaron [as opposed to baroness]
Kaelum [more common male name]


Gender neutral:

Gopher [animal]
Cherry Cola [soda]
Architect [profession/job]
Base Groove [?]
TimeAsylums [adj-noun]
Analyzer [verb-object]
The Void [noun/pronoun]
Hawkeye [noun/pronoun]
Paradoxparadigm7 [noun/adj-adj/noun]
Radicaldreamer [adj-noun/adj]

Indicating female:

Jennywocky [more common female name]
Wrestler_Girl_97 [girl]
Adaire [more common female name]


much better

Base groove
19th-April-2014, 08:51 PM
[?] love it.

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 08:53 PM
Nope now its all in 3 shades which is totally worse. There's more to expressing ones gender by name than what your list indicates. Seems you can't handle reality, reality has more than 3 shades.

It seems you should study some sociolinguistics.

TimeAsylums
19th-April-2014, 08:57 PM
Nope now its all in 3 shades which is totally worse. There's more to expressing ones gender by name than what your list indicates. Seems you can't handle reality, reality has more than 3 shades.

It seems you should study some sociolinguistics.

it actually matters why?

BigApplePi
19th-April-2014, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by Wrestler Girl 97 http://intpforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?p=433515#post433515)
Why shouldn't we identify ourselves as male or female?
That wasn't the question. Women do it more than men, why?
I don't know who identifies themselves more, but how about this?

A woman identifying herself will be treated more courteously by men. Men who identify themselves as male ... so what? Posters who don't identify their sex are more subject to random flaming <-- don't know if this is true.

Base groove
19th-April-2014, 09:00 PM
it actually matters why?

Oh plz ... the go-to argument of anybody who's too cool for school.

I thought your revision was fair and accurate.

A woman identifying herself will be treated more courteously by men. Men who identify themselves as male ... so what? Posters who don't identify their sex are more subject to random flaming <-- don't know if this is true.

It's funny how you can get this far into a thread and then suddenly catch up with everybody who was on Page1.

Jennywocky
19th-April-2014, 09:01 PM
much better

I don't include actual names stuck inside a username, because it isn't necessarily to indicate gender. You can't equate the two. (For me in particular, my name was meant to create a pun about the Jabberwocky, not to indicate my gender or real name whatsoever as a primary focus; that was incidental.)

You need to test your assumptions when collecting data.

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 09:01 PM
TA: One reason it matters is because the names I listed as indicative of a male user are more blatantly garnering social prestige than the others.
Another is that they pertain to male-dominated subjects.

You can read about gender and prestige in language on wikipedia. And it's pretty easy to google.

Kuu
19th-April-2014, 09:02 PM
Jenny is totally pwning this thread.

There was no evidence provided by those that claim that men are the norm on most places online. This is but an old conception that might have been true 20 years ago, but unlikely to be so anymore. With internet anonymity, anyone can claim to be whatever they want to, and extremely hard to verify. To assert with certainty that men dominate the internet is simply unsustained.

Secondly, Jenny's point that Architect's question is founded on observation bias remains largely unadressed. Do people really explicitly claim to be female more often than male, or is it just that men only notice it when a female does it? Has anyone actually seriously gathered the data?

Another cause of the sad, kneejerk, base arguments that have been posted is partly Architect's fault for expressing his observation in such a broad manner: not some women, but women as a whole. That might not have been his intention, but either due to sloppiness or underlying gender bias, it certainly is easy to read it as a black and white matter.

Now, why do some women (like some men) seem compelled to identify their gender in their usernames?

I gather:
1) Some people just don't care about anonymity or hiding their gender, and they just happened to like the sound of it in the name.
2) Some people might strongly identify with their gender and feel it's such an important part of them that they consciously or subconsciously find ways to reveal it.
3) Some people might think that they could gain certain advantages / avoid disadvantages in claiming to be a certain gender, and thus deliberately do so.

Latte
19th-April-2014, 09:06 PM
The "New Girl" thread, by "Wrestler Girl" no less (or some variation) prompted this. I've wondered for a long time why women feel compelled to identify themselves as female on the internet. It dates back to the early days even, back then you'd see "techguurl" and such nonsense. You rarely see "techguy" or variations.

Actually, I see such quite a lot. Including ___bro and the like. I don't think most men are very aware of this.

Your question implies a singular motivation too. For women. In general. Or a single set of motivations. This should not be assumed.

http://i.imgur.com/3TY3Aya.png

...Maybe. But probably they just have no reason to hide who they are. I doubt anyone considers the advantages or disadvantages of identifying their gender. It's besides the point in their own mind.

This illustrates very well why there is so much hostility and assumption in regards to women who do not keep their gender secret, but not in the way the creator of this assumes.

As has previously been uttered in this thread, anonymous isn't the default, male is the default. I see people who out themselves as males constantly on 4chan, but there's no backlash in the least.

This is because of a generalized perception of intent on the part of females. A perception that females who reveal that they are female, be it by implication of talking about something that requires this information to be presented, or be it an explicit act.

What is assumed is that the way many males might react to knowing someone is a female (trying to woo the person in some way) is pretty much always the intent. The female is blamed for this behavior on the part of some males, a kind of behavior that often gets in the way of good or proper discourse. She is blamed (alone mostly. because boys are just gonna be boys right?) because she is percieved as having the power to cause this avalanche of shit by revealing herself, and it is assumed that this is what she wants, and thus she gets painted as an egocentric shithead who only wants to be worshipped.

Firstly, it takes two to tango. Secondly, it may not be her intent. In some cases, there is such intent. In such cases, by all means, people can tell the person to sod off and contribute rather than being merely an egocentric attention leech on a community.

But it's gotten way out of hand, and the attitude justifying tits or gtfo has morphed into something of an ugly overgeneralizing assumptive self-righteous persecution movement.

The Gopher
19th-April-2014, 09:06 PM
Just with the whole name thing I've had a lot of people assume I'm female. I think it might be more my writing style than name but it is curious that at least to some extent I break the assumed male thing... I wonder why.

Decaf
19th-April-2014, 09:07 PM
In some cases (like video game servers) I think self-identifying as female has a selfish intent that relates somewhat to how the sexes are treated in real life (not that that makes the action somehow wrong). However, here? In a forum ostensibly dedicated to helping each other understand themselves? I don't think we should give a little slack. Many of us have exposed much more personal things here than the state of our dingleberries and hoo-has. Context is important.

As for why men don't explicitly self-identify? This may be where some of the vitriol comes from. MOST men don't have a problem with women fighting for respect and equality. Where things tend to jump the rails is that not everyone fighting does it respectfully. In the eyes of many who feel disrespected, it is fair game to disrespect others, and so you have accusations being thrown at men "in general". A man who self-identifies on the internet goes from a nebulous "it" to a "he", with all those accusations attached (yes, we typically use "he", but only because "it" would seem odd in English).

Base groove
19th-April-2014, 09:08 PM
Just with the whole name thing I've had a lot of people assume I'm female. I think it might be more my writing style than name but it is curious that at least to some extent I break the assumed male thing... I wonder why.

Gopher,

IT'S THE PURPLE!

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 09:10 PM
Just with the whole name thing I've had a lot of people assume I'm female. I think it might be more my writing style than name but it is curious that at least to some extent I break the assumed male thing... I wonder why.

It is, if you use emotional language, avoid profanity and write in an expressive manner be it through simply prose or with the help of smileys then people are much more likely to assume you're female.

digitalbum
19th-April-2014, 09:11 PM
Well I will be honest ... "women" is plural. "A women" is not a noun.


Man you're annoying.

The "New Girl" thread, by "Wrestler Girl" no less (or some variation) prompted this. I've wondered for a long time why women feel compelled to identify themselves as female on the internet. It dates back to the early days even, back then you'd see "techguurl" and such nonsense. You rarely see "techguy" or variations.

this leads me to my own question, which- has already asked:


Why shouldn't we identify ourselves as male or female?


@architect "That wasn't the question. Women do it more than men, why?"

I think it should be fukin' required.

And I know not everyone does it, but why advertise your type? There's stereotypes about gender and types that happen to be true. And it's interesting to know before hand (if you want to argue with me about this. BRING IT).

The Gopher
19th-April-2014, 09:12 PM
Gopher,

IT'S THE PURPLE!


DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THAT!

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 09:13 PM
It's also funny how the thread has been birthed because Wrestler_Girl_97 named herself as such. Guess at what age gender identification matters most to people? Let's use that as a basis.

Base groove
19th-April-2014, 09:16 PM
Man you're annoying.

Shut up. What's annoying is people who fail at English and don't care. Language is one of mankind's biggest achievements of all time and it is disrespectful to humanity at large to have an attitude of indifference about linguistic expression.

EyeSeeCold
19th-April-2014, 09:17 PM
Jenny is totally pwning this thread.

There was no evidence provided by those that claim that men are the norm on most places online. This is but an old conception that might have been true 20 years ago, but unlikely to be so anymore. With internet anonymity, anyone can claim to be whatever they want to, and extremely hard to verify. To assert with certainty that men dominate the internet is simply unsustained.It really doesn't matter whether males dominate 100% or 48% everywhere or that the domination is greater in some places(e.g. forums) and less than others(e.g. Facebook).

The fact is that the dominant perspective of the internet has a huge male bias(much like Eurocentrism) that is both subconscious and intentional. Reasons why females may declare or hint at their gender and sex has already been given, but I want to include 'feeling at odds with that male bias'.

This argument is so old, so ridiculous, so unresolvable...

Let's throw more wood on the fire shall we.
http://i.imgur.com/qIJG2Gj.png
There are many sides to this that are worth acknowledging but not worth it if people are just going to use it as a tool of persuasion and not truth-finding.

TimeAsylums
19th-April-2014, 09:22 PM
Jenny's point that Architect's question is founded on observation bias remains largely unadressed.

Because

if the answer is simply: Architect's observation is faulty = /thread

IF he is accurate in his observation, then = thread,


the yes premise permits conversation and discussion, the no just ends it.

EyeSeeCold
19th-April-2014, 09:35 PM
For those looking for statistics, we had a poll (http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=10202).

And insights from the last time (http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=13653) we had this discussion.

digitalbum
19th-April-2014, 09:37 PM
Shut up. What's annoying is people who fail at English and don't care. Language is one of mankind's biggest achievements of all time and it is disrespectful to humanity at large to have an attitude of indifference about linguistic expression.

My B, you're right.

I keep forgetting we're not in a forum and are actually writing Medical Journals and college theses.

Base groove
19th-April-2014, 09:42 PM
My B, you're right.

I keep forgetting we're not in a forum and are actually writing Medical Journals and college theses.

You argue like a bitch. Get lost. Don't start shit.

digitalbum
19th-April-2014, 09:43 PM
You argue like a bitch. Get lost. Don't start shit.


Nah. Don't think so vajra being.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cherry Cola
19th-April-2014, 09:47 PM
Lol stop replying to him then Digitalbum. Besides he is right, you can write sloppishly and a uh not a bother 2 much with dem grammatix, but you should still get some stuff right for the sake of making yourself understood. Plural and Singular are some stuff.

ENTP lurker
19th-April-2014, 10:34 PM
When something goes against stereotypical norm. Just like when James Randi came out of the closet. In this case INTP and girl (altough ISTP is the masculine one) . ESFP/J Pillow fighter Girl/Bitch? :confused:

digitalbum
19th-April-2014, 10:41 PM
Lol stop replying to him then Digitalbum. Besides he is right, you can write sloppishly and a uh not a bother 2 much with dem grammatix, but you should still get some stuff right for the sake of making yourself understood. Plural and Singular are some stuff.

Ha, hey don't put this all on me man. And have you ever NOT understood me due to grammar? I doubt it. Find me an example, or it's not true.

Heeheee:schweinegrippe:

Cavallier
19th-April-2014, 10:57 PM
I like to switch it up. People treat me differently based on my avatar. I started out genderless then found an avatar I liked and happened to be femanine. Later on many members thought I was male. I had Tom Waits or Bob Dylan as my avatar and my writing style is apparently genderless enough that when prompted with a masculine avatar people who don't know me assume I'm male.

Right now my avatar is very feminine. People think I'm female.

If I changed my avatar to a male again and gave it six months most of the newbs would think I'm male again.

I generally don't oust myself unless I feel it relates to the discussion.

I know of several admin here who are consistently misidentified as male or female. I thought one of them was female for years and only recently discovered he is male. *shrug*

The Gopher
19th-April-2014, 11:03 PM
Puffy? :D

Lot
19th-April-2014, 11:10 PM
Just with the whole name thing I've had a lot of people assume I'm female. I think it might be more my writing style than name but it is curious that at least to some extent I break the assumed male thing... I wonder why.

I just assumed you were sexy ;). Gotta get me some gopher


This thread is so cringe worthy. Mensrights lol

digitalbum
19th-April-2014, 11:24 PM
I just think it's weird. I'd like to be able to say, "Right on sister!" or "Dude, I know."

Like why the gender anonymity? Please, help me understand?

Cavallier
19th-April-2014, 11:31 PM
Puffy? :D

No. Puffy is actually genderless. Duh. :angel01:

But I won't say who I was actually confused about because it is not for me to say.

EyeSeeCold
19th-April-2014, 11:48 PM
No. Puffy is actually genderless. Duh. :angel01:

But I won't say who I was actually confused about because it is not for me to say.

Kuu? There's not really many to choose from...

The Gopher
19th-April-2014, 11:50 PM
It's puffy she is just saving face.;)

Base groove
19th-April-2014, 11:50 PM
Honestly I thought Puffy was bang-on.

His writing comes across as effeminate. No offense.....

Fukyo
19th-April-2014, 11:57 PM
Moderator rating by manliness

1. Fukyo
2. Cavallier
3. Puffy
4. Polaris
5. Kuu
6. Absurdity

EyeSeeCold
20th-April-2014, 12:01 AM
^ Is that from most manliest to least? Or vice versa?

Fukyo
20th-April-2014, 12:07 AM
From most to least, of course.

BigApplePi
20th-April-2014, 12:19 AM
-Men are the norm on most places online. So if you don't want people to assume you're a man you've gotta be up front about it.
Go with what CC said. When the subject matter is sex irrelevant there is no need for sexual identification. If the subject matter is carrying some male characteristic with male bias (real or imagined), a female might become self-conscious of her own bias and either hide or reveal that fact so as to expose the bias.

If the subject matter is carrying some female characteristic with female bias (real or imagined), a male might become self-conscious of his own bias and either hide or reveal that fact so as to expose the bias. How many times have you come upon a group of people all of which are of the opposite sex in real life? What do you do?

Kuu
20th-April-2014, 12:36 AM
The fact is that the dominant perspective of the internet has a huge male bias(much like Eurocentrism) that is both subconscious and intentional.

I can agree with this. However, it had not been expressed like so by the ones making the claims...

Because

if the answer is simply: Architect's observation is faulty = /thread

IF he is accurate in his observation, then = thread,

the yes premise permits conversation and discussion, the no just ends it.

If you are narrow-minded, that might be so. The faultiness of the original observation does not preclude a conversation to develop based on it, on the contrary the conversation is expanded into a broader debate, bringing more questions forth.


As an aside addendum, I actually changed my username, way back, into a deliberately gender-neutral one (though I don't actively attempt to hide it).

Absurdity
20th-April-2014, 12:38 AM
I thought one of them was female for years and only recently discovered he is male. *shrug*

Was it me? D:

Grayman
20th-April-2014, 12:49 AM
Am I welcome to post here? I don't want to ruin Architect's assumption simply by existing.;)

Puffy
20th-April-2014, 01:03 AM
The gender ambiguity associated with my presence here continues to make me smile.

Carry on, peasants! :kinggrin:

Just with the whole name thing I've had a lot of people assume I'm female. I think it might be more my writing style than name but it is curious that at least to some extent I break the assumed male thing... I wonder why.

Further evidence that we are in fact the same person. :cat:

Lot
20th-April-2014, 01:16 AM
The gender ambiguity associated with my presence here continues to make me smile.



I don't get that. You've posted pictures before.

Fukyo
20th-April-2014, 01:19 AM
I don't get that. You've posted pictures before.

Not everyone creeps as much as some of us do.

Lot
20th-April-2014, 01:26 AM
Not everyone creeps as much as some of us do.

Creepy is my middle name

Adaire
20th-April-2014, 01:42 AM
@cherrycola

Adaire is a male name. It means wealthy spear.
I'm pretty sure there is a dick joke in there somewhere.
:confused:

Pyropyro
20th-April-2014, 01:48 AM
The "New Girl" thread, by "Wrestler Girl" no less (or some variation) prompted this. I've wondered for a long time why women feel compelled to identify themselves as female on the internet. It dates back to the early days even, back then you'd see "techguurl" and such nonsense. You rarely see "techguy" or variations.

I can think of a few:

1. Because they like their gender and want to add it to their username.

2. To avoid confusion. Male is usually the default means of addressing people. I believe the English language doesn't use gender neutral third singular pronouns ("it" would be rude).

However, I find it handy to use plural pronouns to address users that has not expressed their gender yet.

3. They're law enforcement officers/ NGO members who are conducting entrapment operations against sex offenders. Pretending to be a minor and a girl tends to attract the nasty denizens of the Internet.

4. People are more courteous to girls. There are immature males that may disrespect them but it is best for them not to go to where these people lurk anyways. Heck, even having a female avatar on MMORPG's makes others want to help you more.

Cherry Cola
20th-April-2014, 01:51 AM
@cherrycola

Adaire is a male name. It means wealthy spear.
I'm pretty sure there is a dick joke in there somewhere.
:confused:

Bah I put that as gender neutral first, then I googled it and the first result said female. Now I googled it again and the first result was from a shit site which obv couldn't be trusted and the second result said male.

Simply phallacious. I am sorry.

Affinity
20th-April-2014, 01:58 AM
Prob cause woman love attention.

Latte
20th-April-2014, 02:02 AM
Heck, even having a female avatar on MMORPG's makes others want to help you more.

shiit. total tangent, but, back in my world of warcraft days there was this guy who fell in love (or was at least strongly infatuated with) with a person he thought was a girl after a long time of knowing each other and interacting. as far as I understand it, the person with the female avatar didn't actually identify as female IRL and saw the whole deal as roleplaying of sorts.

Long story short, guy was devastated upon the realization that this love interest he had gotten so much hope and invested so much in emotionally turned out to be a heterosexual guy roleplaying a persona... and upon witnessing his devastation, this roleplaying guy was devastated as well and felt immensely guilty for not making sure the other guy was aware that it was a highly developed role sooner.

All the people on the server who got mail from the drama llama were hit very strongly in the feels. It felt so tragic, this love story that just wasn't completely so, but sort of was, in a way. In the feels. While it lasted.

EyeSeeCold
20th-April-2014, 02:04 AM
Adaire is a male name. It means wealthy spear.
I'm pretty sure there is a dick joke in there somewhere.
:confused:

I would point it out but it might be too hard for you to grasp. ;)

Cavallier
20th-April-2014, 02:15 AM
Damnit! I gotta work harder at being dick or I'll never beat out Fukyo for most manly admin.

Was it me? D:

:o

Pyropyro
20th-April-2014, 02:20 AM
shiit. total tangent, but, back in my world of warcraft days there was this guy who fell in love (or was at least strongly infatuated with) with a person he thought was a girl after a long time of knowing each other and interacting. as far as I understand it, the person with the female avatar didn't actually identify as female IRL and saw the whole deal as roleplaying of sorts.

Long story short, guy was devastated upon the realization that this love interest he had gotten so much hope and invested so much in emotionally turned out to be a heterosexual guy roleplaying a persona... and upon witnessing his devastation, this roleplaying guy was devastated as well and felt immensely guilty for not making sure the other guy was aware that it was a highly developed role sooner.

All the people on the server who got mail from the drama llama were hit very strongly in the feels. It felt so tragic, this love story that just wasn't completely so, but sort of was, in a way. In the feels. While it lasted.

:( That could have been a good relationship but it does sound like a good melancholic romance story material.

Anyways, this just shows that the advantages of identifying oneself as female may have unintended consequences.

redbaron
20th-April-2014, 03:00 AM
Beat me to the punch.

Figured I'd give a little bit of data from the actual userlist here. Here's the tally for various strings in the usernames:

Girl = 28
Guy = 30

man = 44
woman = 2

male = 3
female = 1

Not sure what the gender balance on the forum that is.

digitalbum
20th-April-2014, 03:22 AM
It's yet another step away from actual human interaction.

Jennywocky
20th-April-2014, 03:46 AM
Just with the whole name thing I've had a lot of people assume I'm female. I think it might be more my writing style than name but it is curious that at least to some extent I break the assumed male thing... I wonder why.

Well, you're an INFP guy, so....

http://personalitycafe.com/infp-forum-idealists/14645-infp-feminine-males.html
http://personalitycafe.com/infp-forum-idealists/143603-infp-men-accusation-being-feminine.html
http://learning-curve.blogspot.com/2013/02/infp-is-not-alpha.html

(I've heard INFP guys gripe about this before and/or the discussion occurring.)

Simply phallacious. I am sorry.

Dick jokes?
Different strokes, I guess. :D

(Bad monkey! *spank*)

The Gopher
20th-April-2014, 04:01 AM
I actually enjoy it. However it's interesting that it comes across in writing. I don't generally get offended (probably a product of too much Ne) and don't seem that feminist in the real world. I like having the ability to fake being female online though!

Jennywocky
20th-April-2014, 04:09 AM
I actually enjoy it. However it's interesting that it comes across in writing. I don't generally get offended (probably a product of too much Ne)

Are you an Enneagram Nine? I've seen that with many IFP guys.

and don't seem that feminist in the real world. I like having the ability to fake being female online though!

Probably the openness, lack of ego in the posts, the warmer/gentler friendly interaction style, etc. it mirrors some of the traits that females are taught in many cultures.

shiit. total tangent, but, back in my world of warcraft days there was this guy who fell in love (or was at least strongly infatuated with) with a person he thought was a girl after a long time of knowing each other and interacting. as far as I understand it, the person with the female avatar didn't actually identify as female IRL and saw the whole deal as roleplaying of sorts.

Long story short, guy was devastated upon the realization that this love interest he had gotten so much hope and invested so much in emotionally turned out to be a heterosexual guy roleplaying a persona... and upon witnessing his devastation, this roleplaying guy was devastated as well and felt immensely guilty for not making sure the other guy was aware that it was a highly developed role sooner.

All the people on the server who got mail from the drama llama were hit very strongly in the feels. It felt so tragic, this love story that just wasn't completely so, but sort of was, in a way. In the feels. While it lasted.

Ouch. Ironically, I'm watching Tootsie right this moment. Talk about synchronicity.

I mean, stuff happens; and it's too bad that that happened, since it sounds like it just wasn't on people's radar and then there was a lot of heartache involved.

There are males who play females and they can still come across online as male. But I did actually met someone online once, with a female avatar, and we became somewhat close, one of the few people I could actually talk to in game about some personal things, and finally one night she says to me, "I need to tell you something, and I hope you are not mad at me..." and I immediately guessed it: She was a he. And she was. An ENFJ who just felt more comfortable in-game as a woman, despite still identifying as male, being married, etc. We remained friends after, of course, that wasn't a problem for me; but it was just funny. Sometimes people can scan cross-gender without having cross-gender identities.

as far as "women being helped" in online games more, well, it might depend on the type of woman. I've been ignored online, playing a female character, before; and on occasion I have been given a few cheap things or helped out. But typically not -- and I tend to play more of as a loner and don't really do the "warm engaging female" thing. I think women who flirt and play up their femininity into the cliche are more prone to getting attention, items, money, etc.

The Gopher
20th-April-2014, 04:31 AM
9w1 for the win! Yeah that's probably it. The video game thing is interesting. I haven't met anyone pretending to be female yet. Then again I almost always use voice chat (yes yes extrovert blah blah) now days.

kaelum
23rd-April-2014, 02:33 AM
In this thread...

Indicating male sex:

Architect
Redbaron
Base Groove
TimeAsylums
Analyzer
The Void
Hawkeye
Paradoxparadigm7
Kaelum
Radicaldreamer

Gender neutral:

Gopher
Cherry Cola

Indicating female:

Jennywocky
Wrestler_Girl_97
Adaire

Gender and sex are not only expressed in absolutes or in whether we call one another he or she and the like. Statistically it also decide what type of language we use at large, our mannerisms, how we try to impress others, how we try to appear to others and by what means. Overt and covert prestige usage among other things.

Thanks for the research. My name is more about reflecting the irony of how religious my real name is and how little I care for religion. So I took a word for "heaven" and changed the "c" to a "k".

hmm, the following is not really related to the thread but here it is:

"Urology was the only specialty to report higher-paid women than men, although the difference was very small (1%)." (Medscape news based on a 2014 study)

Hawkeye
23rd-April-2014, 02:44 AM
"Urology was the only specialty to report higher-paid women than men, although the difference was very small (1%)." (Medscape news based on a 2014 study)

There is an old saying: "a woman's work is never done", which is probably why they get paid less. ^^

Jennywocky
23rd-April-2014, 03:21 AM
Moderator rating by manliness

1. Fukyo
2. Cavallier
3. Puffy
4. Polaris
5. Kuu
6. Absurdity

It's more fun to attach Game of Thrones characters to them in terms of manliness:

Fukyo
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/3/28/1364487091430/Game-of-Thrones-008.jpg

Cavallier
http://www.oneman.gr/keimena/diaskedash/watchlist/game-of-thrones/article1804877.ece/BINARY/w540/Brienne-2-final.jpg

Puffy
http://www.nerdpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/game-of-throne-trone-de-fer-284x200-1381990422.jpg

Polaris
http://cs407228.vk.me/v407228937/5e0a/O7CfinaqcHU.jpg

Kuu
http://cs309227.vk.me/v309227302/971e/HZRLHRD5qqc.jpg


Absurdity
http://i2.pinger.pl/pgr17/a02c75d10029e23e4f58d417

Absurdity
23rd-April-2014, 04:14 AM
<---- Doesn't watch Game of Thrones

Will someone please clue me in on how my masculinity is being slighted?

Aside from the fact that the guy (?) in the picture looks like a cross-dressing Little Red Riding Hood.

PS: Fukyo is ugly.

Jennywocky
23rd-April-2014, 04:46 AM
<---- Doesn't watch Game of Thrones

Will someone please clue me in on how my masculinity is being slighted?

Aside from the fact that the guy (?) in the picture looks like a cross-dressing Little Red Riding Hood.

Well, to be honest, aside from looking like a fop... that guy was schtupping the Queen. Repeatedly. Boy toy of choice.

So... YMMV.

PS: Fukyo is ugly.

:D

digitalbum
23rd-April-2014, 04:59 AM
It's more fun to attach Game of Thrones characters to them in terms of manliness:


Where am I? I'm insulted.

Fukyo
23rd-April-2014, 05:01 AM
Well, to be honest, aside from looking like a fop... that guy was schtupping the Queen. Repeatedly. Boy toy of choice.

So... YMMV.

I think he's also a relative. :D

Pyropyro
23rd-April-2014, 05:02 AM
Where am I? I'm insulted.

Does it matter? Your avatar is Judge Dredd. He's quite high in the manliness scale.

Jennywocky
23rd-April-2014, 05:02 AM
I think he's also a relative. :D

Shhh.... no one needs to know she's got a kink for that kind of thing.

Where am I? I'm insulted.

You weren't a mod. But hell...

... what about him?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aAIK1ec8WlU/Tnd3L1yt8NI/AAAAAAAAAJE/oZuyJ8fgLdg/s1600/Game-of-Thrones-Theon-Greyjoy-1.jpeg
What a dashing young lad.

digitalbum
23rd-April-2014, 05:03 AM
Does it matter? Your avatar is Judge Dredd. He's quite high in the manliness scale.


Yeeeesss, but it doesn't count if I picked it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Grayman
23rd-April-2014, 05:13 AM
Yeeeesss, but it doesn't count if I picked it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you want someone to judge you I can do it. You might like the results. I am feeling a little biased toward humor.

digitalbum
23rd-April-2014, 05:35 AM
If you want someone to judge you I can do it. You might like the results. I am feeling a little biased toward humor.


Go for it, it's only fair.

digitalbum
23rd-April-2014, 05:35 AM
Shhh.... no one needs to know she's got a kink for that kind of thing.



You weren't a mod. But hell...

... what about him?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aAIK1ec8WlU/Tnd3L1yt8NI/AAAAAAAAAJE/oZuyJ8fgLdg/s1600/Game-of-Thrones-Theon-Greyjoy-1.jpeg
What a dashing young lad.

The guy that gets his dick cut off and is a slave to pussy. Thanks!

Lot
23rd-April-2014, 06:16 AM
The guy that gets his dick cut off and is a slave to pussy. Thanks!

If the boot fits

Jennywocky
23rd-April-2014, 06:19 AM
The guy that gets his dick cut off and is a slave to pussy. Thanks!

I really hope you didn't start tossing spoilers around, I'm only on episode 21. (Then again, I suppose I tossed a few lesser ones out myself.)

digitalbum
23rd-April-2014, 06:23 AM
I really hope you didn't start tossing spoilers around, I'm only on episode 21. (Then again, I suppose I tossed a few lesser ones out myself.)

No def not, Theon Greyjoy turns out, um, very well.

The Gopher
23rd-April-2014, 06:24 AM
I fear to ask who I would be :P

Adaire
23rd-April-2014, 08:06 AM
I fear to ask who I would be :P

Hmm, Syrio perhaps.

http://i.imgur.com/bdkI2Hl.jpg?1

EyeSeeCold
23rd-April-2014, 08:17 AM
^ Totally did a double take

Lot
23rd-April-2014, 09:11 AM
I fear to ask who I would be :P

Samwell

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/c/ca/Samwell_Tarly.jpg/800px-Samwell_Tarly.jpg

The Gopher
23rd-April-2014, 09:33 AM
Samwell

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/c/ca/Samwell_Tarly.jpg/800px-Samwell_Tarly.jpg

PSSSSSSSHHH as if.

Perfectly Normal Beast
23rd-April-2014, 09:37 AM
the game of clones thread hurts my brain

:storks:

Cherry Cola
23rd-April-2014, 10:46 AM
Absurdity is actually Littlefinger, beware.

Base groove
23rd-April-2014, 03:21 PM
Absurdity is obviously Bran Stark (http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Bran_Stark) as he is Ni-dominant, dignified, poised, intelligent, and crippled.

digitalbum
25th-April-2014, 06:15 AM
The guy that gets his dick cut off and is a slave to pussy. Thanks!
If the boot fits

Just checked, weiner intact, and the latter is a silly prospect. Maybe being a Eunuch would help me focus.

Cavallier
25th-April-2014, 06:37 AM
Brienne? Rofl!

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m54dsimkJg1qzgc80o1_500.png

Animekitty
25th-April-2014, 08:38 AM
I am Animekitty
I identify as... ?
:)

TheHabitatDoctor
25th-April-2014, 08:56 AM
I totally thought Puffy was female and Cav & Polaris were dudes for like a year... :phear:
Moderator rating by manliness

1. Fukyo
2. Cavallier
3. Puffy
4. Polaris
5. Kuu
6. Absurdity
5. Absurdity
6. Kuu

*Fixed, based on this (http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=5102) and the assumption that Absurdity could grow a better beard. :D

Base groove
25th-April-2014, 02:02 PM
Poor Decaf. :(