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Your thoughts on my interpretation of how Cognitive Functions work?

QuickTwist

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Ex-User (13503)

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What do all of these words and phrases mean?

If someone has Ti or Te in slot 3/4, how could 3/4 be considered unconscious when thinking is definitely a conscious thing?

The position of all 8 functions is determined by the first two. Why is a "greater personality" needed to develop the shadow? Why not just a different one, or life experience?

How can you connect loops between 1&3 and 2&4 to libido?

Why do the orange and yellow arrows look essentially the same, yet have different descriptions?


#TeamBeebe
 

QuickTwist

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What do all of these words and phrases mean?
I illustrated it as a diagram because describing what is going on here is pretty complex and it's probably easier to understand the concepts from a diagram such as this rather than me explaining everything, which would be quite lengthy.

If someone has Ti or Te in slot 3/4, how could 3/4 be considered unconscious when thinking is definitely a conscious thing?
The Unconscious Cognitive Functions manifest themselves through behavior as an act of Unconscious will. There is (almost) always the opposite Cognitive Function in the Unconscious than what we see in the Conscious. So if the subject has Dominant Ti, then one of the Unconscious Functions will be Fe. The reasons I left I/E dichotomies out of this illustration is because I am not convinced that the Judging Function that is paired with the Perceiving Function in the Conscious mind needs to be opposite in dichotomy to the I/E for the Conscious mind.

The position of all 8 functions is determined by the first two. Why is a "greater personality" needed to develop the shadow? Why not just a different one, or life experience?
The Greater Personality is what happens when one finds a way to combat their Shadow, not the other way around. Sorry if that was not clear.


How can you connect loops between 1&3 and 2&4 to libido?
In some regards, with 1&3 and 2&4 connecting it's really the same process going on. You could group 1&2 together and 3&4 together and say 1&2 connects 3&4. It's not so much of a loop, but more of an oscillation of changing the flow of energy from the libido to determine what process is represented in the behavior.

Why do the orange and yellow arrows look essentially the same, yet have different descriptions?
The difference is in the process to which the Unconscious Functions manifest themselves in behavior. In the healthy individual, the Unconscious Function is filtered through its corresponding Conscious Function because the corresponding Conscious and Unconscious Functions are less imbalanced. In a healthy individual, the Conscious Function gets its energy from the corresponding Unconscious Function and they combined in the shadow and then manifest themselves as both Conscious and Unconscious Functions as an exercise of will in the behavior. In an Unhealthy individual, The Dominant and Secondary Conscious Functions have been overused so the Unconscious Functions manifest themselves overaccentuated in a sort of hysterical way (if the subject is Extroverted) or neurotic way (if the subject is Introverted).

#TeamBeebe
I have no idea what that means.

This is just one model and it is a static representation and not a dynamic one. I could do one for explicitly Introvert and Extrovert in another model or something more in line with what Jung had in mind with a single Dominant Conscious Function and the other three as Unconscious Functions.
 

Hadoblado

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Well, I guess we should acknowledge I think it's wrong because I don't believe in that sorta thing, yeah. So how would I go about evaluating it?

- I don't understand how the orange arrows differ from the yellow outside of being wobbly.
- I don't understand why UF3 and UF4 don't get their own colourse like F1 and F2.
- I don't know anything about libido, so that part of the diagram eludes me.
- It's not clear to me what you mean by 'contact with the greater personality'.
- Green is "only possibly with contact with the greater personality", but then between shadow and unconscious, you have two black arrows possibly meaning alternative ways thaat the shadow can interact with the unconscious. So is contact with greater personality required or not?
- Are the shadows baked into libido? is that what the purple boxes mean?

- I like your horizontal axis moving from shadow to unconscious to conscious to behaviours.
- I love colour coding, such an efficient means of communicating a lot.
- It looks like you've captured a lot of the cognitive model.

Holistic criticism:
It's not clear to me (as someone who's pretty naive) how your model differs from other models, or how those differences are justified. While the diagram above conveys a lot of information, there's stuff that you are familiar with that your reader won't be. To fix this, you want to describe what's in the diagram in words as supplementary material. When you read a science text book, diagrams will always have an explanation of what you're looking at to orient the reader.
 

redbaron

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what is the green line meant to represent?
 

QuickTwist

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what is the green line meant to represent?
For me, this means the subject was able to overcome living by a binary reality and have found the way to live by both binary systems simultaneously. The subject has evolved.

 

QuickTwist

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redbaron

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what's meant by binary reality and living by both systems simultaneously?

can you give an example of a person living in a binary reality, and an example of someone living by both systems?
 

QuickTwist

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what's meant by binary reality and living by both systems simultaneously?

can you give an example of a person living in a binary reality, and an example of someone living by both systems?
An Introvert or Extrovert lives by the binary systems of their opposite. For Introvert, Extroversion, for Extrovert, Introversion.

How someone is able to live in both worlds simultaneously looks different for each person. Examples of people who have been able to do this are people like Jesus or the Buddha.
 

onesteptwostep

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I'm pretty stressed right now because of stuffs so don't feel like analyzing atm, but kudos to you on still doing MBTI thinking stuffs in 2018. Keeping the dream alive!
 

QuickTwist

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I'm pretty stressed right now because of stuffs so don't feel like analyzing atm, but kudos to you on still doing MBTI thinking stuffs in 2018. Keeping the dream alive!
It has very little to do with MBTI.
 

Pizzabeak

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So the 3rd and 4th functions are healthy, assertive. In types where they're 1st and 2nd that would be considered a positive goal to base your archetype off of, even though it's not technically that, according to this. There's no proof or source but experiential. Chart seems wrong, I'd graph it different or make it so where the auxiliary and inferior are sequential. Just get a more rigorous software and use more visual aid to improve the design.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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As I mentioned earlier, I'm quite sure that the first four functions are conscious (to varying degrees) whereas the latter 4 are unconscious. (this is assuming a "pure" type, i.e. only applies with respect to a specific cognitive configuration, and does not take into account the effect of non-default cognitive configurations on the psyche)

From what I understand, the Persona (or is it Ego?) is what one identifies as being true of themself, whereas the Shadow are those aspects potentially existing within a person that the person identifies as not being true of them. So, there is a correlation with the cognitive functions, but it is not one to one.

I think the idea that healthy cognition has the second pair of functions filtered through the first pair has some level of truth to it. The ideas related to the shadow functions would need to be altered to be in line with the non-one-to-one correspondance with functions, or else the shadow label be changed to something else.

The thing about libido is new to me, I had never used that term when thinking about type. Could you give a discussion regarding libido and its relation to the functions?
 

washti

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the libidinal aspect of this theory is quite visible:
QT_and_his_libido.png
 
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