You are better off not matching up to an MBTI type description...

[Adymus]

I have been perusing the INFJ forum recently, and I have noticed a pattern that is all too common.

They will accuse me of being wrong, and then challenge me by making a claim.

I disagree with their claim, and counter their argument with my own.

They realize I have actually thought my argument through, shit their pants, then their poorly developed Ti squeals in fear, and then they flee.

So I thought to myself "Wow, they are so scared to death of their own Ti, that they are not even going to attempt to use it. Instead they just say "I don't want to argue with you, we'll never see eye to eye!" and storm off, even though they are the ones that started the argument in the first place."

That is actually pathetic for an INFJ, to have only strong use of your Ni and Fe, and nothing else. I got the thinking "So is this what people think of when they hear INFJ? Wow, no wonder everyone's perception of personality types is so screwed up."

That is when it hit me.

It is the test, as well as the descriptions. The test is technically only checking proficiency in your top two functions, and the descriptions are only describing a person that has proficient use of their top two function. That means that a person who has developed more than their Top two functions will more than likely test as something else, and they will contradict and not relate to the description.
So the people that take the test and have accurate results are most likely not a well developed model of their personality type, unless of course they know themselves very well. And the types that are actually well developed are being mistyped as something else. Which is why the INFJs that get mistyped as INTP are all strong Ti users, and are who I personally consider the "True" INFJs, as opposed to their weaker counter parts that you find on INFJf.

What this means, is that MBTI has created perceptions and understandings of personality types that is based solely on the most bottom of the barrel, undeveloped versions of these types. And I when I say "bottom of the barrel" I really mean it, having only proficient use of your two near side functions is terrible.

No really, think about this for a second, your only real understand of personality type is based only on a description of the most poorly developed personalities, and we are ascribing all personalities, including the well developed ones to these descriptions. Do you see now how terribly incompetent this system is?

I am not surprised that the MBTI is only applicable to 60% to 75%, because the rest do fit into the 16 types, because they have developed themselves farther than the test can predict, and the descriptions can describe. It is no wonder everyone thinks the INFP are all mopey emo kids, they are only looking at the worst models.

And I am not just hating on the INFJ either, because you INTPs are no different. The idea of an INTP that has proficient use of Si or Fe is almost alien to you guys. Which is why most of you are so quick to jump on the "That guy is a J!" train as soon as you see the first sign of directiveness in an INTP. It is almost as if being well developed is discouraged in MBTI, and that really pisses me off.

This attitude of discouraging the use of all but our two top functions is completely asinine and just plain destructive. There is nothing good about having only proficient use of half of your abilities, the personality model that has a proficiency in all of their functions will always be stronger than the one that does not.

Edit: Yes, I do realized that being mistyped does not automagically mean you are well developed. It could mean a number of things, ranging from not knowing yourself, to Having an unusual development pattern such as Dominant and Tertiary well developed, and Auxiliary and Inferior underdeveloped. But the statement I made is still relevant regardless of the other possibilities.

 

[Moocow]

Now everyone can start arguing about how well developed and rounded they are.

I agree to some extent, but I've met people that had trouble typing themselves and seemed to fall into 50% on all sides. However, a few of them seem very undeveloped in fundamental ways. It doesn't seem evident to me that getting a vague rating by MBTI suggests being well developed.
It could also mean that they just really REALLY don't know anything about themselves, not even the glaringly obvious traits.

 

[Adymus]

Now everyone can start arguing about how well developed and rounded they are.

I agree to some extent, but I've met people that had trouble typing themselves and seemed to fall into 50% on all sides. However, a few of them seem very undeveloped in fundamental ways. It doesn't seem evident to me that getting a vague rating by MBTI suggests being well developed.
It could also mean that they just really REALLY don't know anything about themselves, not even the glaringly obvious traits.

Damn it, I knew someone was going to say that if I didn't make the clarification.

Okay I'll clarify and then add it into the OP.

No, being mistyped does not automatically mean you are well developed. It could mean a number of things, ranging from not knowing yourself, to Having an unusual development pattern such as Dominant and Tertiary well developed, and Auxiliary and Inferior underdeveloped. There.

 

[Anthile]

So, how can I be sure to be a specific type in case I am more developed?

 

[Adymus]

So, how can I be sure to be a specific type in case I am more developed?

All that matters is stimulation, all you have to do is figure out what functions you are using, and then which ones you are drawn to using (ie: stimulated by).

 

[ashitaria]

Heh, I think that explains my bluntness (Si) and social skills (Fe).

 

[Mary]

I think this has convinced me I'm an INFJ who just loves playing around with Ti.
I don't particularly like feelings and I'm not a person obsessed with that sort of thing.
But those INFJ profiles seemed fairly similar to me (although the INTP profile fits me well too)
Meh.
I'm not convinced after all.
Oh well~

 

[Adymus]

Heh, I think that explains my bluntness (Si) and social skills (Fe).

Bluntness is a Ti thing homie.

 

[ashitaria]

Ah, I see. Thanks for correcting my mistake.

Then what does (Si) do, does it ensure self-confidence and directiveness?

 

[Adymus]

Ah, I see. Thanks for correcting my mistake.

Then what does (Si) do, does it ensure self-confidence and directiveness?

Yes it does.


Have you ever made a claim and where confident that you were right? That is because you had Si to back you up.

 

[ashitaria]

Yes it does.


Have you ever made a claim and where confident that you were right? That is because you had Si to back you up.

Does Si also directly affect your debating skills as much as Ti does? What kind of cognitive functions directly affect debating skills, and how? (Forgive me, I'm a very curious person).

 

[Anthile]

Yes it does.


Have you ever made a claim and where confident that you were right? That is because you had Si to back you up.

But where is the difference to Ni?

 

[ashitaria]

But where is the difference to Ni?

You could say it is more "open to possibilities". Unlike Si, which shuts down possibilities, Ni leaves room for perspective to be changed, and that change is usually a result of information gathering. But I'm not qualified for this, Adymus?

I'm know I'm going to be wrong, just know it. :/

 

[Adymus]

Does Si also directly affect your debating skills as much as Ti does? What kind of cognitive functions directly affect debating skills, and how? (Forgive me, I'm a very curious person).

They actually both do.

Ti being used to weigh what is logically agreeable or disagreeable and why, and Si being used to pull out facts and information to back you up.

Speaking of Debating: Nobleheart (The local MBTI guru of INFJ forum) is getting his ass handed to him. It is really disappointing, I thought he might prove a challenge, but he flinches at the first sign of having to use his Ti.

 

[ashitaria]

They actually both do.

Ti being used to weigh what is logically agreeable or disagreeable and why, and Si being used to pull out facts and information to back you up.

Speaking of Debating: Nobleheart (The local MBTI guru of INFJ forum) is getting his ass handed to him. It is really disappointing, I thought he might prove a challenge, but he flinches at the first sign of having to use his Ti.

Heh, well, I have seen debates at the INFJ forum ( I was quite amused to see NeverAmI there) and they. won't. stop. illogical. comments.

But the INFJs that I meet outside of that forum (in other forums and chats) are just plain amazing: highly intelligent, open-minded yet able to remain emotionally connected at the same time (absolutely no hard feelings) and often give great insight to arts, stories, philosophy and people. Too bad I have yet to meet such an INFJ in real life though. I'm telling you, a person like that could break me out of my asexual boundary.

 

[Adymus]

Heh, well, I have seen debates at the INFJ forum ( I was quite amused to see NeverAmI there) and they. won't. stop. illogical. comments.

But the INFJs that I meet outside of that forum (in other forums and chats) are just plain amazing: highly intelligent, open-minded yet able to remain emotionally connected at the same time (absolutely no hard feelings) and often give great insight to arts, stories, philosophy and people. Too bad I have yet to meet such an INFJ in real life though. I'm telling you, a person like that could break me out of my asexual boundary.

Oh no doubt.

The NF friends I have in real life would never whine about having to use too much Ti or Te. I have good INFJ friend who would Ti the shit out of these other INFJs, and then probably get accused of being an ENTP lol.

 

[Mello]

Maybe we are all INFJs?

 

[ashitaria]

Oh no doubt.

The NF friends I have in real life would never whine about having to use too much Ti or Te. I have good INFJ friend who would Ti the shit out of these other INFJs, and then probably get accused of being an ENTP lol.

You have fucking awesome friends. -_-

The only friend I got that I can connect to ( at least in some level) is another INTP. He's intelligent, but not as Ti-developed as you guys.

 

[Adymus]

Maybe we are all INFJs?

I'd be lying if I said I have not already considered that


But we're not

 

[Fukyo]

Speaking of Debating: Nobleheart (The local MBTI guru of INFJ forum) is getting his ass handed to him. It is really disappointing, I thought he might prove a challenge, but he flinches at the first sign of having to use his Ti.

Amusing argument, although vocal xNTPs tend to see the banhammer there quicky.

 

[Dormouse]

Maybe we are all INFJs?

Yes, everyone's a closet INFJ! Don't listen to Adymus, he's in denial.

 

[BigApplePi]

I have been perusing the INFJ forum recently, and I have noticed a pattern that is all too common.

They will accuse me of being wrong, and then challenge me by making a claim.

I disagree with their claim, and counter their argument with my own.

They realize I have actually thought my argument through, shit their pants, then their poorly developed Ti squeals in fear, and then they flee.

So I thought to myself "Wow, they are so scared to death of their own Ti, that they are not even going to attempt to use it. Instead they just say "I don't want to argue with you, we'll never see eye to eye!" and storm off, even though they are the ones that started the argument in the first place."

That is actually pathetic for an INFJ, to have only strong use of your Ni and Fe, and nothing else. I got the thinking "So is this what people think of when they hear INFJ? Wow, no wonder everyone's perception of personality types is so screwed up."

That is when it hit me.

It is the test, as well as the descriptions. The test is technically only checking proficiency in your top two functions, and the descriptions are only describing a person that has proficient use of their top two function. That means that a person who has developed more than their Top two functions will more than likely test as something else, and they will contradict and not relate to the description.
So the people that take the test and have accurate results are most likely not a well developed model of their personality type, unless of course they know themselves very well. And the types that are actually well developed are being mistyped as something else. Which is why the INFJs that get mistyped as INTP are all strong Ti users, and are who I personally consider the "True" INFJs, as opposed to their weaker counter parts that you find on INFJf.

What this means, is that MBTI has created perceptions and understandings of personality types that is based solely on the most bottom of the barrel, undeveloped versions of these types. And I when I say "bottom of the barrel" I really mean it, having only proficient use of your two near side functions is terrible.

No really, think about this for a second, your only real understand of personality type is based only on a description of the most poorly developed personalities, and we are ascribing all personalities, including the well developed ones to these descriptions. Do you see now how terribly incompetent this system is?

I am not surprised that the MBTI is only applicable to 60% to 75%, because the rest do fit into the 16 types, because they have developed themselves farther than the test can predict, and the descriptions can describe. It is no wonder everyone thinks the INFP are all mopey emo kids, they are only looking at the worst models.

And I am not just hating on the INFJ either, because you INTPs are no different. The idea of an INTP that has proficient use of Si or Fe is almost alien to you guys. Which is why most of you are so quick to jump on the "That guy is a J!" train as soon as you see the first sign of directiveness in an INTP. It is almost as if being well developed is discouraged in MBTI, and that really pisses me off.

This attitude of discouraging the use of all but our two top functions is completely asinine and just plain destructive. There is nothing good about having only proficient use of half of your abilities, the personality model that has a proficiency in all of their functions will always be stronger than the one that does not.

Edit: Yes, I do realized that being mistyped does not automagically mean you are well developed. It could mean a number of things, ranging from not knowing yourself, to Having an unusual development pattern such as Dominant and Tertiary well developed, and Auxiliary and Inferior underdeveloped. But the statement I made is still relevant regardless of the other possibilities.

Adymus I can sympathize with what you are saying. (At this point I am so tired I haven't read beyond the OP, but will comment anyway.)

Theory: this involves more than reason. On an INFJ board (I have not read it = poor Si on my part) I can imagine emotions flying around all over the place. Reason (your reasoning) is not going to override wish fulfilling. Some people will fix on a test result, like it and if so try to justify it, not wanting to change what they now value.

So I'm not surprised they call you wrong (whether you are or not). Good luck with that board. Shall I drop over?

 

[Adymus]

Amusing argument, although vocal xNTPs tend to see the banhammer there quicky.

Pathetic.

 

[BornUpsideDown]

Don't forget to consider the difference between the kind of person who might be interested in taking a personality type and the kind who wouldn't. Not to mention the kind of person who can sit back and take it with a grain of salt and the kind who can't.

I don't think I would be alone if I were to admit that when I first figured out I was INTP, I sort of ran with it. I even justified some of my actions with it, granted, they were justified only as responses to observing my own nature at work (all third party style). Just the same, simply by having taken the test, I changed a little bit, and modeled myself (mentally) according to the type for a little while, coming to my senses eventually.

I think you see this in action with even a handle like (not picking at) Nobleheart. Luckily, he seems to embrace the Guru-facet of the INFJ. My wife does, too, particularly after she took the test.

As a human (all humans, I think), identifying with some greater group of individuals makes us feel dandy, even if for just a little bit. The definition of the greater group, though, can be dangerous, if not taken within context.

I see a lot of this so far, here at INTPforums. We consider thinking and knowledge to to be of utmost importance, and that feeling and action are all so necessarily trivial. Then we use that as justification to ramp ourselves up, at the expense of other generalized types.

I feel shameless to use argument again, but, here's our forum dedicated to thinking and free will and all that. There's their forum dedicated to emotional leadership or whatever they pride themselves on. Everybody's nice and divided, perfect for a little package with a barcode and discount sticker. If my name were O'Brien, I'd eat this shit up.

So in response to the thread title: true. Thinking of the Phantom Toll Booth, it seems like we are not only moving a pile of sand one grain at a time, but properly categorizing each grain first.

Since it's too late, now, though, let the speculation continue!

(incidentally, I am sure that some posters on the thread concerned with how crazy ESFJs are will take this reply to be my second use of the same arguments. I assure you that this is the case indeed, you are correct. However, that branch of the discussion really belonged on this thread to begin with, so neh. )

 

[Words]

@OP

Yet when we're talking about stimulation, we go into strength tendencies....If Fe was more stimulating, then Fe will more likely be developed. Unless, the level of stimulation is not a big enough factor in the entire equation.

Is it possible to measure these factors?

 

[intuitivet]

No, being mistyped does not automatically mean you are well developed. It could mean a number of things, ranging from not knowing yourself, to Having an unusual development pattern such as Dominant and Tertiary well developed, and Auxiliary and Inferior underdeveloped. There.

Also, it could mean you're all over the place and most likely a teenager! (Heard somewhere to wait until you're 21 to type yourself or something, but who says we'll be developed by then?)
Isn't the whole point of mbti to identify your strengths and weaknesses and work on strengthening the weak points of your personality?

 

[BornUpsideDown]

Also, it could mean you're all over the place and most likely a teenager! (Heard somewhere to wait until you're 21 to type yourself or something, but who says we'll be developed by then?)
Isn't the whole point of mbti to identify your strengths and weaknesses and work on strengthening the weak points of your personality?

Nope, its for labeling purposes.

 

[intuitivet]

Nope, its for labeling purposes.

Oh I see! Thanks for clearing that up

 

[CoryJames]

I feel that in any "test" used for labeling or grouping purposes, MBTI or other, people are going to be mistyped and that the test is going to often put people into the wrong groups. This is simply because no written test can cover enough data to accurately put a person into a cut and dry mold. Everyone is different (and I don't mean this in a 'you are your own little snowflake' kind of way) and will have developed differences that separate themselves, at least a little, from the decided parameters of that group. I do not believe that these mistypes have anything to do with overdeveloped or underdeveloped personalities. I blame a lack of proper testing ability and a too-small number of categories to fall into.

Also, it is simply human nature to want to associate oneself with a larger group, and to unconsciously up-play characteristics to prove that one belongs within the group.

 

[BigApplePi]

How would you, as a reader here, define temperament?

It would be difficult to deny there are differences in temperament. That makes it important to identify so we may adjust either our own behavior or our own reactions to as to relate to people the way we wish.

 

[Words]

How would you, as a reader here, define temperament?

Natural personality?

 

[CoryJames]

Temperament, and I am just using my understanding here so if I am wrong I apologize, is your general outlook on things. Let me explain. It is the way you approach and handle things. Words' definition is pretty accurate. Natural personality. The color glasses through which you see the world, and thus how you respond to it.

 

[Polaris]

Very interesting. So: Is there such a thing as the quintessential INTP (or any other type, for that matter)? If so, do you have any examples? I have been searching for other INTPs in my circle of friends and people I surround myself with, but cannot seem to detect any obvious ones. Or perhaps I'm just terrible at typing.......

 

[BigApplePi]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigApplePi
How would you, as a reader here, define temperament?

Natural personality?

I like the word "natural." One thing about definitions. It helps to break down a concept into more elementary terms. The word "personality" invites asking, "What is personality?"

 

[BigApplePi]

It is the way you approach and handle things. Words' definition is pretty accurate. Natural personality. The color glasses through which you see the world, and thus how you respond to it.

Someone has chosen the breakdowns of those. Introvert/Extrovert is the first one. I think those were identified as subjective/objective views. Then there are the other categories.

It's hard to say how we are to characterize these things. Most of the time? With the most intensity but part of the time? What energizes (natural) us or strains us? These things are difficult to measure. One has to get some kind of overall impression and then generalize: "I am energized by this."

Then there is who is to decide? Me or you? Me if I have a modest maturity; you if I'm a child. A test if we have no idea what is being judged.

The test is a start. It has limits though because we assume four cognitive Jungian functions, all of which are qualified by introversion/extroversion (This is a popular working breakdown. There is no reason not to have others.) The 1st two CF's are the most prominent while the last two may be swamped by the crudeness of the test. Furthermore we may be testing our mood and bias at the time of the test. One would have to take ten tests each time forgetting the other nine to get more representative of the person as a whole.

 

[Words]

The word "personality" invites asking, "What is personality?"

Great question. Mental and Physical behavioral patterns?

 

[CoryJames]

Great question. Mental and Physical behavioral patterns?

That is a splendid question. I do not believe pattern is a good way to describe it, or maybe I just don't want to believe I am a series of patterns.

I think that personality is something acquired over time based on life experience. You start as a baby with no personality. You begin to develop one as a child, when you recognize that you have the ability to influence what goes on around you. Your personality can change, moreso as a small child when you have fewer life experiences and therefore more room for change. It is your acquired defense mechanisms to negative stimuli and your learned mechanisms of getting positive stimuli. As an adult your personality is not likely to undergo much change, especially not radical change, because you are so ingrained in your habits at that point.


I am sorry if that was not very clear, I was thinking as I wrote. I shall try to concentrate my thoughts into a more understandable form if you guys wish.

 

[walfin]

And I am not just hating on the INFJ either, because you INTPs are no different. The idea of an INTP that has proficient use of Si or Fe is almost alien to you guys. Which is why most of you are so quick to jump on the "That guy is a J!" train as soon as you see the first sign of directiveness in an INTP. It is almost as if being well developed is discouraged in MBTI, and that really pisses me off.

Te would obviously be pretty different from Fe.

Really, in an argument without an arbiter, the winner is the one who's left.

 

[Marbas]

The obvious solution is to start encouraging people to look at cognitive functions as things more akin to tools then pieces of your identity. That's what they always struck me as anyways. Ti, Ne, etc were always things that allowed some platonic, fundamental, me-ness to interact with the world. And weren't really things that informed a core part of my identity.

 

[CoryJames]

The obvious solution is to start encouraging people to look at cognitive functions as things more akin to tools then pieces of your identity. That's what they always struck me as anyways. Ti, Ne, etc were always things that allowed some platonic, fundamental, me-ness to interact with the world. And weren't really things that informed a core part of my identity.

One's cognitive functions could very well be a part of their identity as much as a tool. It comes back around to what personality truly is. The tools one uses to understand, formulate responses to, and otherwise function in their environment would very much have an effect on their outlook on the world, and thus how others perceive them...

 

[Synthesis]

Originally Posted by cjobrien7
It is the way you approach and handle things. Words' definition is pretty accurate. Natural personality. The color glasses through which you see the world, and thus how you respond to it.

I find this definition of personality agreeable. I personally have come to see personality as one's orientation to the world, rose glasses and the subsequent responses if you will. Working my way through "The Portable Jung" by Jung (obviously) and "The Essential Jung" by Anthony Storr, I have come to see that the MBTI model is and can be inaccurate in regards to the individuals who have - as brought up in the OP - well developed CF's or underdeveloped auxiliary/inferior functions. Within each type, there can exist different varieties, different niches; one can have both a mathematical & scientific INTP as well as a philosohpic and 'conceptual' INTP - two distinctions of the same entity. Could this facet not then be used to infer that those who lean in one direction or the other may also have X or Y function slightly more developed? That said, following the thread title could be well recommended given certain parameters.

(My apologies on any incoherency, typed it rather quickly; alert me should clarification be necessary)

 

[CoryJames]

Is the accuracy of the test all that important in the long run? One should not change any part of themselves based on a test result. If you agree that xxxx label is what you are, then you can use the information to understand better who you are, what you might like, and what needs improvement. If it is inaccurate and you disagree, then disregard it.

No matter the result of the test, one should keep being themselves and keep trying to improve what they can improve.

 

[Moocow]

What INFJ forum were you talking about? I'm curious to go look, maybe get myself banned.

 

[Adymus]

Is the accuracy of the test all that important in the long run? One should not change any part of themselves based on a test result. If you agree that xxxx label is what you are, then you can use the information to understand better who you are, what you might like, and what needs improvement. If it is inaccurate and you disagree, then disregard it.

No matter the result of the test, one should keep being themselves and keep trying to improve what they can improve.

This is somewhat true, although, whether you agree or disagree is not the final deciding measure. Especially with the poor quality of information on each type, many people don't agree with their test result even if it was accurate. It would actually be far more beneficial to the person in their pursuit to improve themselves if they actually understood what type they were and would use that as a road map for improvement.

 

[Adymus]

What INFJ forum were you talking about? I'm curious to go look, maybe get myself banned.

The one that has INFJ forum right there in the name.

 

[Starfruit M.E.]

You have made a point.

[FONT=trebuchet ms, Arial, Helvetica]When I take the tests, I often get INTP, INFP, INTJ, or INFJ. I guess the P, J confusion is because I have learned to be very organized and prefer things to be that way to reduce stress although I am objective and naturally pretty messy. The F, T confusion is because I naturally care a great deal about people and I often give generously despite my T preference.
My I vs E is always I although it can be a difference of as little as 2%. I like people one-on-one though, in preference to large groups. Hanging out with a best friend can be more relaxing than being alone, but hanging out with more than one person at a time makes me tired.
All this said, my sensing is significantly low. Your car could be falling apart, but if you don't say anything I probably wouldn't notice even if I was staring at it. I have stared at things for minutes noting the feeling it gave me and how the light hit it without registering what it was I was looking at or even if I made that connection I might not relate that information to anything else, for example, what a falling apart car has to do with the owner, and either way I won't remember it for more than a moment unless someone points it out to me. lol
SO anyways, I'm an INTP and I know this despite my growth in many areas of my life. I don't think anyone today pops out of their mother as a perfect human being, and I doubt that someone who worked hard enough to get that well developed would be that clueless about themselves at to not be able to eventually figure it out with research.
[/FONT]

 

[Words]

The one that has INFJ forum right there in the name.

Would you interact with this query? Stimulation = development, correct?

@OP

Yet when we're talking about stimulation, we go into strength tendencies....If Fe was more stimulating, then Fe will more likely be developed. Unless, the level of stimulation is not a big enough factor in the entire equation.

Is it possible to measure these factors?

 

[Reluctantly]

You all are very interesting and intelligent people. I just got done reading some threads by Adymus and a couple more threads around the forum and although I don't think I can share any helpful logical insight into MBTI that will always hold true, thank you for sharing such well-thought-out insights.

But I have to say I am also very envious of anyone who feels they belong to an MBTI type. It seems no matter what information I think I know it always seems to come down to the question of whether there are parts of a person that are innate in personality and what they are. I wonder, does MBTI accurately measure this? Does any current system? A Ti user (and more specifically an INTP) seems to be quite able to come up with reasoning and a fail-hardy system for explaining the differences they have encountered. Is this constant, very logical, forever system placing introspection, the nature of what Ti really is? And I wonder, as always, about the other functions as well, just as I do about Ti.

My gut instinct tells me no matter how many theories I hear or ideas I hear about personality typing that there will always be something I didn't know that changes and makes incorrect everything I thought I knew and understood. So why the constant struggle then to figure out what my gut tells me I will never fully understand? It always seems to be the question of 'nature/nurture and is that person you show the world really who you are inside'. If you can look into a mirror and see your being and ponder all the experiences and humanity you have used and shared in interacting with the world and know what you are, or rather your type, I am quite impressed.

And I wonder - because my analysis always seems to fall short of a Ti-users when in strict Ti terms. I am not well-versed in coming up with these amazing arguments some of you are so capable of doing. I tend to see myself and the world more as a suggestion, where careful understanding of a situation can make a Ti argument either fall flat on its face or make everyone feel it explains everything - the proper estimation. But is this tertiary and inferior Fe? I guess what it comes down to is that I see the world as matter in its three states (solid, liquid, and gas) that interacts with itself and changes and molds itself depending on circumstance and probability. But that idea is somewhat scary because then it implies all possibilities are possible. And if all possibilities are possible, then how can we be sure about anything? But does it matter then even if we are wrong and we all think we are right?

Sometimes I feel like being a chameleon is the only identity I and everyone else truly has, even if they don't consciously understand this. But then maybe I'm an INFJ? Or is it an INTP that sees the value in consciously developing Fe to better get what I think I need and want out of life?

And yeah, I don't expect anyone to answer those questions, but it could be fun if someone wants to...

 

[Adymus]

Your not an INFJ, you just demonstrated uncertain Ne all over this post. Also, as a sidebar, I would like propose thinking you might be an INFJ is a prerequisite to confirming you as an INTP.

There is no chaos, there is only unpredictability.

Come on man, do you really think any personality theories would exist, and have gotten this far if the mind was completely unpredictable? It is all about patterns, there are patterns in everything, and while you may not necessarily be able to predict the exact outcome (yet), you can predict the pattern. As I have always said, MBTI sucks, so I won't defend that system, but it is addressing a very existent pattern. The problem with MBTI is that it is just not looking at the whole picture, it sees only a very small and superficial scope of that pattern. Once you get a much more zoomed out look at how it all connects, then it will all come together, there will be no more paradoxes.

It is a lot of work, with many shattered pieces to collect, but we're INTPs, and isn't understanding systems that are beyond anyone else what we live for?

 

[CoryJames]

I live to enjoy myself