Why am I being so pervert?

[anindie]

I don't have control over my eyes. My eyes wander over private part of every woman. Its very awkward after getting caught. Which is stoping me from having a pure friendship with female(any female for that mater). It seems every female under son I am considering as object.

Any INTP has this problem? Or Do I need to see a psychiatrist asap?

 

[Cognisant]

Read my signature.

Deep down you know it's true.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

There's a difference between seeing someone as an object and seeing parts of that someone as objects.

I'll use myself as an example here: I'm actually surprisingly asexual in nature for the most part (which is why I prefer to be pushed against my will or to do the pushing, but that's another topic ). I often find myself looking at people I'm not attracted to simply because certain... aspects of them stick out. Boobs, for example. They're little more than awkward-looking blobs of fat to me, with no amount of attraction attached to them whatsoever. But they're there. And they bounce...

As for how to deal with it socially? I have no idea. If you're close enough with the person, perhaps some sort of compliment would work in your favor?

Another option is creating a negative feedback loop. Every time you look at something you shouldn't be looking at, in social terms, force yourself to visualize something unrelated that makes your guts churn. If it doesn't work, visualize something more obscene.

 

[Cavalli]

How old are you man? If you're in your mid/early teens you'll probably find it's just puberty. If you're older than that, and you think it's having a negative impact on your life (it looks to me like it is), then maybe you should see a psychologist (not a psychiatrist, they're just more expensive and I don't think you need drugs for this) and get a bit of help to 'lessen' your 'perving'. There's nothing wrong with checking a girl out, but if you're doing it all the time and it's all you can think about (and you're not going through puberty!) then maybe you should have a chat to a professional about it..

 

[redbaron]

Find better friends. The following point of view might be contested by some others here, but anyway.

The thing about boobs is that you can't really miss them. Especially when busty women wear cleavage tops, they're right in your face.

I have multiple female friends, some of them have big boobs and I look. They know I look and we both joke about the fact that I look. Why it would be a problem is beyond me. It's not that I think boobs should be leered at - they are just right there and are in your face.

If I walked around with my penis hanging out, women would look. If a muscular and athletic guy walks around with his shirt off, women often blatantly stare.

So as far as I'm concerned this isn't a matter of you doing the wrong thing, it's a matter of sexual comfort. Find friends who are on the same level of sexuality as you. You can be friends with members of the opposite sex perfectly fine. There can be certain levels of sexual tension in platonic friendships as well, and it's perfectly fine.

No, you don't need a psychologist or psychiatrist. That's fucking stupid. Humans are sexual animals. Getting treatment for being human is ridiculous.

 

[HDINTP]

. I would not call it a problem really. Sexuality is a part of humans isn't it? I am also something like that but I have a control over that. And I don't see it as a problem. It is true I can't think that clearly sometimes but what. You probably have a high libido don't you. I fought this 6 years ago then I just got used to it. No I do not think you need to visit a doctor. It is perfectly fine. Maybe finding group of people with same sexuality would help?

 

[Etheri]

Sorry if this is intrusive, but have you had a stable sexual relationship? Did this change anything how often you look at other women? (It's not going to stop, but it might atleast be controlable? )

 

[anindie]

@Cavalli I am 27, virgin. (Note: I am from South Asia, so social norms are different here.)

There's a difference between seeing someone as an object and seeing parts of that someone as objects.

I'll use myself as an example here: I'm actually surprisingly asexual in nature for the most part (which is why I prefer to be pushed against my will or to do the pushing, but that's another topic ). I often find myself looking at people I'm not attracted to simply because certain... aspects of them stick out. Boobs, for example. They're little more than awkward-looking blobs of fat to me, with no amount of attraction attached to them whatsoever. But they're there. And they bounce...

I wanted to mention this at the first place, decided not. In fact, sometime I got into awkward situation of staring on an old granny.

Sometimes, I feel like, I am trying to find a distinctive feature in a person and concentrate on it, instead of straight eye contact.

Negative feedback? Its happening, I am avoiding to talking to girlfriend of my friends, hoping they don't get uncomfortable.

 

[anindie]

If I have been in a conversation with a female, there will be two processes 1)controlling eye movement. 2)Actual conversation. If I failed in process1(I got caught ) I will be in a guilt loop. It affects process2.

Thus most of the time I won't be having a natural conversation. And totally disconnected from them.

 

[Kuu]

I don't have control over my eyes. My eyes wander over private part of every woman. Its very awkward after getting caught. Which is stoping me from having a pure friendship with female(any female for that mater)

Perhaps you should stop trying to have a pure friendship and follow these impulses intstead, shamelessly?

At least you wouldn't feel guilty.

No, you don't need a psychologist or psychiatrist. That's fucking stupid. Humans are sexual animals. Getting treatment for being human is ridiculous.

Nice reverse psychology, you reptilian scum!

 

[GrammarJew]

Not to put too fine a point on this, but how you spend your time online can affect how you relate to others offline. I have struggled with this too and have made great progress with the guidance of online communities.

I don't know you, of course, and I could be wrong. If you're interested in more details, please PM me.

Also, I'm new here but I'm just a regular person and I'm not here to promote anything in particular. Just thought I'd mention this.

 

[Minuend]

Penises \: D/

 

[Milo]

I think worrying about it makes it awkward. If you didn't worry about it then it wouldn't be awkward. I do stuff like that all the time, and if I get called a pervert or some other stereotype I just reply "It's not my fault you have a sexy butt" if I know them. Or if I don't know them then it's more like "Whoops!" or "You're so vain" or anything that I can get away with. I haven't had any interventions yet. Lol
Just know that the more awkward you make it, the more creepy you come off as. And when you own it and don't make it awkward, you come off as someone just enjoying life as long as there's no actual harm done.

 

[redbaron]

If I have been in a conversation with a female, there will be two processes 1)controlling eye movement. 2)Actual conversation. If I failed in process1(I got caught ) I will be in a guilt loop. It affects process2.

Thus most of the time I won't be having a natural conversation. And totally disconnected from them.

Perhaps you're trying too hard to be, "natural"? Sexuality is a natural part of human nature. Surely it's more unnatural to try and suppress it than it is to accept it?

Nice reverse psychology, you reptilian scum!

You're a reverse psychology!

Really though I was being serious. There isn't any, "problem" with this sort of behaviour.

 

[BigApplePi]

I don't have control over my eyes. My eyes wander over private part of every woman. Its very awkward after getting caught. Which is stoping me from having a pure friendship with female(any female for that mater). It seems every female under son I am considering as object.

Any INTP has this problem? Or Do I need to see a psychiatrist asap?

This doesn't have to be true, but is a possibility. Behind looking is taking in what's there. Young males are attracted to females. Attraction means value and that means taking in or looking at what's valuable to you. There is the desire to eventually possess. Nothing wrong with that. Yes such an obsession will prevent you from more subtler relations like a calmer friendship. To get there you must pass through intermediate steps. Say you add to your eyes, words. Say hello. If that causes you to make a fool of yourself, now you have added experience. Looking at the female will no longer be so pure. You will have lost contact virginity. Keep that up. Add some reasonable comment to your words until you get a rational response. You are now a non-virgin and can temper your looking. You can even say you admire her body ... unless you don't. (Or more tactfully say you admire how she looks.) If the latter, keep quiet. Go out and be the fool. That is not so foolish.

 

[ApostateAbe]

I don't have control over my eyes. My eyes wander over private part of every woman. Its very awkward after getting caught. Which is stoping me from having a pure friendship with female(any female for that mater). It seems every female under son I am considering as object.

Any INTP has this problem? Or Do I need to see a psychiatrist asap?

What you are doing is what almost every straight man would LIKE to do, but we control ourselves because it is socially forbidden. You just need to learn to control yourself. It may help to watch more porn and masturbate more often so you are not feeling horny all the time.

 

[Seed-Wad]

1 The thing about boobs is that you can't really miss them. Especially when busty women wear cleavage tops, they're right in your face.

(...)

2 No, you don't need a psychologist or psychiatrist. That's fucking stupid. Humans are sexual animals. Getting treatment for being human is ridiculous.

1.

2.
Yes, THIS! Secondly, see post above.

ALTERNATIVELY:

(That is, wear sunglasses all the time, everytime.)

 

[GrammarJew]

Perhaps you're trying too hard to be, "natural"? Sexuality is a natural part of human nature.

Yes. Genetically, even.

ALL of our ancestors got laid.

 

[Lot]

Stop masturbating. Get your male energy back. Use the inner man to give you strength. 30 day will change your life.

But seriously. Women are humans. They want sex as much as you do. And it's just as hard for them to look you in the eyes as it is for you. You aren't a pervert. Stop calling yourself that! I did that bullshit for most of my life. It breeds self hate. You don't need that shit on you.

Do you wanna get laid? Then get laid. But don't just sit and stare at them. That's not productive. Loosen up. They are people, get to know them. It's fun! Do you have a lot of friends you like to hang out with? Maybe just a few?

 

[SpaceYeti]

I <3 boobies.

 

[Cavallier]

Why am I being so pervert?

A question for the ages.

Seriously though, this isn't about the taboo of looking. It is about your inability to control yourself. Mostly I think you are assigning yourself a lot of unneccesary guilt that is stressing you out and exacerbating the problem.

Have you actually gotten in trouble for looking? Was it just one time or are you finding yourself getting in trouble for it often? If you've never been caught or if you've only gotten in trouble once or twice you are probably looking no more than anybody else. If you are in trouble a lot you might need some guidance.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

I have sort of the opposite problem.
Generally i look through people, they are transparent to me.
(That is, as long as they are not looking at me.)
Once in a while i realize that i have been staring through some body parts which may not be present in my head, but others who see me might not be aware of that and i may come across as a pervert.
So, when i catch myself in such a situation, i gently direct my view at some other object that is more "morally neutral" to gaze at.
And, well, boobs, human nature.

 

[anindie]

A question for the ages.

Seriously though, this isn't about the taboo of looking. It is about your inability to control yourself. Mostly I think you are assigning yourself a lot of unneccesary guilt that is stressing you out and exacerbating the problem.

Have you actually gotten in trouble for looking? Was it just one time or are you finding yourself getting in trouble for it often? If you've never been caught or if you've only gotten in trouble once or twice you are probably looking no more than anybody else. If you are in trouble a lot you might need some guidance.

Never, I have never gone that far. I won't. But next time when I come for a professional discussion(I don't have problem with that- with a boss/ subordinate ), they will be careful, they adjust themselves (they block their cleavage).


Finally I think a lot.

 

[anindie]

Do you wanna get laid? Then get laid. But don't just sit and stare at them. That's not productive. Loosen up. They are people, get to know them. It's fun! Do you have a lot of friends you like to hang out with? Maybe just a few?

Friends? Yae.

Probably its out of discussion. But, I came to know about INTP/MBTI by searching "INTROVERT" "ALONE" "INDEPENDENT" etc.

My life is best explained by these sentences "INTPs dislike making the first move and tend to mirror the emotional content of the other person. A jolly person will quickly bring the INTP out of his shell, as much as that is possible, while a serious person will find a serious INTP looking back at him. In this sense, INTPs preference for intuitive perception (rather than action) with respect to people results in them resembling a chameleon.. In doing this, the INTP remains somewhat reserved, never wholly identifying himself with his surroundings.Chameleons hide their true selves." Note: I am not depressed (Ok, may be sometimes).

 

[Milo]

In the end, I will have an internal analysis about their judgment on me.

Delete that shit

 

[anindie]

Delete that shit

Done

 

[nebnobla]

Your an animal, it's important to learn how to deal with this, as INTPs are preoccupied with thinking, which is generally not evolutionarily favoured; knowledge brings power and insanity mostly, different drug proportionalities in the brain bring happiness, e.g. serotonin, dopamine, etc, which are supposed to be the primary determinants of human behaviour.

As far as your specific problem, don't look much--not only is it awkward if you are thinking that they have noticed but also it communicates to the girl that you want her pretty bad and thus she may be more testy and resistant to spontaneous sexual events; supply, demand (may be measured by frequency of you staring at tits, ass, etc), and prices may be useful parameters in modelling some of these social interactions. You can keep your thinking up [to a degree!] but make sure you look collected, composed, independent, confident, and not clingy or needed, e.g. constant boob and ass staring, etc.

And no girl goes on any pedestal, your the boss.

 

[nebnobla]

Stop masturbating. Get your male energy back. Use the inner man to give you strength. 30 day will change your life.

But seriously. Women are humans. They want sex as much as you do. And it's just as hard for them to look you in the eyes as it is for you. You aren't a pervert. Stop calling yourself that! I did that bullshit for most of my life. It breeds self hate. You don't need that shit on you.

Do you wanna get laid? Then get laid. But don't just sit and stare at them. That's not productive. Loosen up. They are people, get to know them. It's fun! Do you have a lot of friends you like to hang out with? Maybe just a few?

Kudos!

 

[Milo]

Done

All you have to do is justify yourself. The more you justify your actions, the more free will you have without anxiety. Also, you need to think of yourself as important--because you are the one living your own life. You're life is just as important as anyone else's. That being said, you should always put your own self-interests first. Think about it, hard--it's the most logical thing to do considering it will up your performance in your social life and probably other aspects. The hardest part about this is the transition, because the world expects you to be acting how you've always acted, so find an excuse of some sorts here or just slowly transition, or just do it without an excuse.

 

[anindie]

As far as your specific problem, don't look much--not only is it awkward if you are thinking that they have noticed but also it communicates to the girl that you want her pretty bad and thus she may be more testy and resistant to spontaneous sexual events; supply, demand (may be measured by frequency of you staring at tits, ass, etc), and prices may be useful parameters in modelling some of these social interactions. You can keep your thinking up [to a degree!] but make sure you look collected, composed, independent, confident, and not clingy or needed, e.g. constant boob and ass staring, etc.

That makes sense. Do you have more resource on this?

 

[nebnobla]

That makes sense. Do you have more resource on this?

Well that is my interpretation of social dynamics best described by a few authors:

- The Tao of Badass by Joshua Pellicer

- Vin de Carlo's Pandora's Box

- Dating and Relating from a to z (forget author)

- etc..

These are all books you can torrent, the models described by these people may seem inconsistent or contradictory; but your an INTP, and best fit to interpret and adapt these into an ordered structure. The methods and ideas may not even be used by you; I tended to stick to ones that I found were of high sensible merit. Reading these may increase your confidence ambiently but only lasting so long, perhaps weeks or so; best way to keep your confidence is apply yourself to these social situations, supplemented by some of these ideas.

Also, every night you are planning on going out, read two articles from this site until you are a total boss:

https://www.girlschase.com/

Just to top your confidence off until you've gotten enough hands-on experience. And anyone who thinks this is about PUA bs, it's not; it's about overcoming your anxieties so you can harness every situation you wish you could express yourself in; it's about building confidence and the potential for satisfaction and happiness.

 

[Milo]

Woah woah woah! I mean, maybe doing all that will work out for you, but it seems like the hard way to me. I correct anxieties from the inside out. Correcting anxieties from the outside in can be detrimental, and may or may not cause an identity crisis. Doing things instinctively instead of manually is way easier once you've found your confidence.

No offense to @nebnobla--I'm guessing this is how you've corrected your anxieties. I mean, if it works, it works.

 

[nebnobla]

Woah woah woah! I mean, maybe doing all that will work out for you, but it seems like the hard way to me. I correct anxieties from the inside out. Correcting anxieties from the outside in can be detrimental, and may or may not cause an identity crisis. Doing things instinctively instead of manually is way easier once you've found your confidence.

No offense to @nebnobla--I'm guessing this is how you've corrected your anxieties. I mean, if it works, it works.

I believe you can go both ways; depending on the person, it's better to supplement some issues or concerns from your own perspective, sometimes it's better to find external reasoning for fixing issues. In any case, ready up on social behaviour is definitely useful for any INTP, those books up there make some elegant models combined with the INTP's personal model, and they are easy reads.

I realize your point about identity crisis--you have to be honest with yourself the whole way through. Don't paste this stuff on you like a superficial persona to act in social situations, you'll go schiz or bipolar; happened to my brother. Instead, take in the merit in the ideas in the books, like you do as an INTP with everything else, compare it to your existing model(s), and justify the ideas presented in the readings by analogy of your INTP construction of how things work, i.e. the "concept map grande," if you catch my drift.

Stay relaxed to; keep some things simple (as stupid as it sounds on an INTP forum).

And your statement about doing things instinctively after you've found the confidence is totally true; INTPs may try to rationalize why they are awkward and such, and at the same time attempt manual control of social situations. The confidence is key.

 

[Milo]

Okay, I can get on board with that.

 

[crippli]

An interesting dilemma. Some thoughts.

I suspect it's fairly common amongst both men and women to have staring eyes on nice boobs. Both the ass and the boobs are valued visual objects. Especially if the curves are nice. Western society/sophistication.

There is a dual system here though. You could also fit your penis and balls in a tight holster, with thin tights on top. You would cause the same discomfort as you are feeling on the opposite part. Everything that sticks out can be used as attention grabber . Keeping eyes off could be difficult for the other person to be able to have a pure friendship.

So who is responsible for the various aspects?

The irony is that I don't think nudists are afflicted with such psychological trauma. They are more in harmony with the human flesh. I suggest this route as therapy, if the problem is progressing out of hand.

 

[Kuu]

I think it would be worth for you to investigate where this idea of a "pure" friendship came from, and what exactly does it mean to you. And how it relates to friendship.

What is friendship? How is a friendship pure/impure?

You aren't a pervert. Stop calling yourself that!

Why? What's wrong with being a pervert?

All you have to do is justify yourself. The more you justify your actions, the more free will you have without anxiety. Also, you need to think of yourself as important--because you are the one living your own life. You're life is just as important as anyone else's.

This.

 

[BigApplePi]

anindie. Many years ago I was visiting my sister. Somehow we wound up at a public swimming pool. Lots of mothers and children. I remember for two reasons. A drain ran all the way around the pool. Someone told the story one of the kids had stepped of the edge onto the drain, caught his foot and broke his leg. I winced. The other reason was every woman looked ordinary. Fine. Nothing unusual. But one was not. She was oddly a perfect hour glass. The contrast was so great it took all my powers to keep from staring at her all over. What was she doing there? Were other people staring at her. Why not? I remember this because of how easy it would be to repeat the experience.

anindie. I would recommend if a female is right in front of you and you want to stare at her, stare at her eyes or nose while keeping the rest of her in mind. Maybe that would help until you can follow other's advice on this thread.

 

[Milo]

Why? What's wrong with being a pervert?

*Insert background music*

Welcome to the pervert club
Everyone's a pervert and that's including your dog
What'd you say?
You're dog is dead?
Get the sentimental crap
Out of my head!
And let me serenade you
With a theme song

I wouldn't mind if someone else would sing along!

Chorus (Multiple singers):
Cuz everyone's a pervert
They just don't know it yet
And when they go and find out
(Single singer singing really fast):
They'll be in self-denial and hating themselves until they find moral support, and maybe get a new dog to share their feelings withhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

(Slow extro):
And if you're actually not a pervert,
We'll then you're a sad sad fellow
(Original spead):
And you might even be already dead!

duh-duh duh-duh-duh-duh-duh duh-duh duh-duh duh-dah!

 

[juansk]

Just get laid dude, you're a virgin of 27..you ARE going to look thirsty, you were in the fucking desert the whole time!

 

[Lot]

Why? What's wrong with being a pervert?

It's just when you put negativity to it in your mind, you then create a cycle of negative thoughts related to sexuality. Giving yourself another reason to hate yourself. I guess one could just change the definition or connotation of pervert in their mind to break the cycle, or perhaps an ethical shift.

I just know how destructive calling myself a pervert was to me.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

coming from a self-denying pervert.

 

[Reluctantly]

I like how a lot of Europeans don't have problems with nudity and body parts. Things like this don't make them feel awkward; they celebrate it. But if you think about sex in the United States, it makes someone perverted...

 

[Architect]

I don't have control over my eyes. My eyes wander over private part of every woman. Its very awkward after getting caught. Which is stoping me from having a pure friendship with female(any female for that mater). It seems every female under son I am considering as object.

Enjoy it while you've got it.

 

[anindie]

I guess, sharing of my info here, helped to ease the situation a little bit. I did ok job with couple of incidents, but a long way to go.

Well that is my interpretation of social dynamics best described by a few authors:

- The Tao of Badass by Joshua Pellicer

- Vin de Carlo's Pandora's Box

- Dating and Relating from a to z (forget author)

- etc..
.....

Also, every night you are planning on going out, read two articles from this site until you are a total boss:

https://www.girlschase.com/

These are some good materials, but all written in context of US culture. I trying to relate as much of information.

 

[Steven Gerrard]

What you are doing is what almost every straight man would LIKE to do, but we control ourselves because it is socially forbidden. You just need to learn to control yourself. It may help to watch more porn and masturbate more often so you are not feeling horny all the time.

I don't encourage this.

Control yourself man.

Slay your shammeee, slay your shammmeeee.

 

[tvrgvryen]

It doesn't seem like you lack respect for women but you may be ignorant. It doesn't seem like society has influenced your behavior but rather that you're socially naive or that your actions are natural. You feel as if you have no control because you don't. It's biology. Testosterone.

 

[The Void]

I don't have control over my eyes. My eyes wander over private part of every woman. Its very awkward after getting caught. Which is stoping me from having a pure friendship with female(any female for that mater). It seems every female under son I am considering as object.

Any INTP has this problem? Or Do I need to see a psychiatrist asap?

Wear a sunglass.

 

[WoLong]

If you regularly watch porn, you should stop. Porn is by no means a necessary prerequisite for these tendencies, but getting rid of porn will definitely reduce tendencies to look at things sexually.

 

[Amagi82]

Humans are naturally highly sexual, naturally polyamorous creatures. You're supposed to have a close-knit relationship with 50-100 people, and you're supposed to be sexually active with a large number of them. That's how we're wired. The concepts of monogamy and sexual repression are very much at odds with who we truly are. There is nothing wrong with you for wanting to have sex with other people.

That said, women are people. They should be treated like people, not objects to be feared, worshipped, ogled, etc. The way I hear you talking about women makes it painfully obvious why you are not having meaningful sexual relationships. Women have the same fears and insecurities about relationships that you do, through the lense of their own cultural and developmental experiences. The sooner you start treating the people you're interested in no differently from anyone else, realizing everyone has flaws, strengths, hopes, dreams, and ambitions, the sooner you'll be able to carry on a meaningful non-awkward conversation and experience love in addition to your lust.

If you aren't being awkward and creepy about checking someone out, you can totally pull off getting caught looking and build a positive relationship. If someone catches you noticing them, look them in the eyes and smile. Take ownership of it. If she's like "my eyes are up here!", hold your hand up and say "I'm not finished", put on a smirk, and look her slowly up an down before meeting her eyes. Don't be meek or act like your interest is shameful, because it's not. Oh, and then introduce yourself like a normal person and shake her hand. Remember, she's not better than you, and you're not better than her. You're equals. The same.

 

[anindie]

Humans are naturally highly sexual, naturally polyamorous creatures. You're supposed to have a close-knit relationship with 50-100 people, and you're supposed to be sexually active with a large number of them. That's how we're wired. The concepts of monogamy and sexual repression are very much at odds with who we truly are. There is nothing wrong with you for wanting to have sex with other people.

That said, women are people. They should be treated like people, not objects to be feared, worshipped, ogled, etc. The way I hear you talking about women makes it painfully obvious why you are not having meaningful sexual relationships. Women have the same fears and insecurities about relationships that you do, through the lense of their own cultural and developmental experiences. The sooner you start treating the people you're interested in no differently from anyone else, realizing everyone has flaws, strengths, hopes, dreams, and ambitions, the sooner you'll be able to carry on a meaningful non-awkward conversation and experience love in addition to your lust.

If you aren't being awkward and creepy about checking someone out, you can totally pull off getting caught looking and build a positive relationship. If someone catches you noticing them, look them in the eyes and smile. Take ownership of it. If she's like "my eyes are up here!", hold your hand up and say "I'm not finished", put on a smirk, and look her slowly up an down before meeting her eyes. Don't be meek or act like your interest is shameful, because it's not. Oh, and then introduce yourself like a normal person and shake her hand. Remember, she's not better than you, and you're not better than her. You're equals. The same.

Thank you.