which type struggles the most with life?

[Ink]

Spoiler

It has to be intp

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I think there were a few threads about it already.
Praise the search function which is your master.

It goes: INFP/ISFP, INTP/ISTP and ENTP (most -> less).
I don't list the rest of the types because I don't think there are any types in particular that would theoretically struggle with the basic necessities of survival as much as these three categories
INFP are probably the most clueless about their cluelessness and weak. They probably know why they fail, but they don't do anything about it and fail some more because of it.
INTP are weak, but more successful. They don't always know why they fail, but they aren't particularly inconvenienced until things get really bad.
ENTP are more self-destructive but come off as stronger. They don't really know why, but given how much more trial and error they get, so they can improve faster in theory.

Based on inconsistent models and real-life approximations of nonexistent situations.

 

[Analyzer]

I think there were a few threads about it already.

It goes: INFP, ISFP, INTP and ENTP (most -> less).
I don't list the rest of the types because I don't think there are any types in particular that would theoretically struggle with the basic necessities of survival as much as those four.
INFP are probably the most clueless about their cluelessness.
ISFP are weak.
INTP are both clueless and weak, but not so much.
ENTP are the most self-destructive of the four.

I agree but would replace ENTP with ISFJ. ENTP's are self-destructive/impulsive but can manage life using Ne dom opportunistically. Out of those I would say INFP "have it worst".

Interestingly those four actually make up the Behind-The-Scenes interaction style and can be considered part of the ancient phlegmatic temperament, which are known for their neutral approach to life.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

I don't know much about most types other than intp, entj, and enfp, so i wont vote.

from my experience, what sucks most about being intp is being way too flexible with opinions to the point where it is insanely difficult to settle on one(most of the time)

 

[Cherry Cola]

the intp is too socially fail to grasp the gravity of its failure, only the infj is able to fully appreciate its demise

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

Interestingly those four actually make up the Behind-The-Scenes interaction style and can be considered part of the ancient phlegmatic temperament, which are known for their neutral approach to life.

i always thought intp would be more melancholic than phlegmatic. Phlegmatic temperaments are more set in their ways and uncomfortable with confrontation...also quite stubborn from what I remember

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Interestingly those four actually make up the Behind-The-Scenes interaction style and can be considered part of the ancient phlegmatic temperament, which are known for their neutral approach to life.

I would also say that Fi (INFP/ENFP) types I know have a tendency to make systematic explanations to their shortcomings that tend to mean "nothing could be done" or "it has no meaning to me" and then firmly believe it contrary to the reality of their situation. They usually rely on extenuating circumstances and their erroneously formed conclusions to find some kind of consistent explanation to their failure. Prone to experience cognitive dissonance a lot.

 

[Analyzer]

i always thought intp would be more melancholic than phlegmatic. Phlegmatic temperaments are more set in their ways and uncomfortable with confrontation...also quite stubborn from what I remember

Yeah it can be and I notice both in myself, but at end of day I would say more phlegmatic. Compare the ISTP to the INTP, I think this may be a key difference.

This is just going off of David Kiersey's research and Interaction styles.

 

[Jennywocky]

Partly.

I have a friend (Eric B), he posts on some other forums and has posted extensively on the intersection of humors (including the fifth humor, supine) with MBTI... I'll have to see if I can find some of his posts. His posts can be long and probably more useful versus me trying to mentally speculate on the details of what he perceived a year or two after I read them.

EDIT: Well, maybe I misremembered. Here are his thoughts from 2010:
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...seys-book-proves-nts-choleric-phlegmatic.html


Then December 2014:

There are basically two levels of temperament in type. It basically fits both Keirsey's groups, AND the Interaction Styles. The Interaction Styles are actually the more familiar (social) version of the temperaments, using I/E, and people/task (which is called "informing/directing", and connects with both T/F and J/P).

The Keirsey temperaments are an altogether different level, called "conative", meaning dealing with "action" rather than social skills. Instead of I/E, they use cooperative/pragmatic (which if you think about it, is another kind of "passive/assertive" like classic I/E), and people/task is motive/structure.
So what you end up with is SP: Sanguine, SJ: Melancholic, but Keirsey mixed up the other two. NT is Choleric (pragmatic, structure), and NF is Phlegmatic (cooperative, motive). He didn't think NF would be the "calm" Phlegmatic, but in the conative area, it's not about calm or emotive (which is more Interaction Style anyway).

ISTJ: Melancholic
ISFJ: Melancholic/Phlegmatic
INFJ: Phlegmatic/Melancholic
INTJ: Melancholic/Choleric
ISTP: Melancholic/Sanguine
ISFP: Phlegmatic/Sanguine
INFP: Phlegmatic
INTP: Phlegmatic/Choleric
ESTP: Choleric/Sanguine
ESFP: Sanguine
ENFP: Sanguine/Phlegmatic
ENTP: Sanguine/choleric
ESTJ: Choleric/melancholic
ESFJ: Sanguine/melancholic
ENFJ: Choleric/phlegmatic
ENTJ: choleric

Mostly correct, except for reversing these two:

INFJ: Melancholic/Phlegmatic
ISFJ: Phlegmatic/Melancholic

Phlegmatic in either area can also be substituted with that fifth temperament, Supine, which is also passive and people-focused (in actuality, Phlegmatic is moderate in both dimensions, but fit passive/people when the fifth temperament was unknown).

multi-system chart:

Spoiler

There was this recently as well -- he was reviewing a book about ministry, but all the type discussion is secular.

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-book-aps-temperament-system-god-created.html

He's had more stuff, I just can't find it right now.

 

[TheManBeyond]

i'm a big failure

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-book-aps-temperament-system-god-created.html

Interesting. I do see a bit of choleric in some of the members on this forum, but not the majority

as for me, I'm a mix of melancholic(dominant), phlegmatic and supine

 

[Jennywocky]

as for me, I'm a mix of melancholic(dominant), phlegmatic and supine

Those are the three I relate to most as well.

(I don't really have the choleric thing at all, but I've run across others with more choleric traits.)

Spoiler

Each of the four corner temperaments has a driving need that energizes its behavior.
For the Melancholic, the motivation is fear of rejection and/or the unknown. They have a low self-esteem and, figuring that others do not like them, they reject others first.[12]
The Supine also has low self-esteem, but is driven to try to gain acceptance by liking and serving others.[13]
The Sanguine is driven by the need for attention, and tries to sell themselves through their charm, and accepts others before those others can reject them. Their self-esteem crashes if they are nevertheless rejected. Yet, they will regain the confidence to keep trying to impress others.
The Choleric is motivated by their goals, in which other people are tools to be used.[14]
The Phlegmatic's lack of a motivation becomes their driving need: to protect their low energy reserve.[15]

The low self-esteem fits me pretty well, as on the surface I force myself to act "normal/positive" about myself but internally it sometimes feels like a void; what happens is that I make myself available to establish I'm open and even try to offer conversation/help to establish positive connections with others, but if no feedback comes, I run out of energy/motivation and end up withdrawing until I can't deal with the isolation, then slowly the cycle repeats as I extend myself again. (It's also why, even if I can handle myself in conflict well, over the long term it's erosive for me... it drains the energy I'm using to extend myself and to not fall into the low-self-esteem vacuum.)

kind of annoying in some ways, to see my behavior so predictable, but it doesn't really change how it works.

i'm a big failure

that's better than being an under-achieving failure. maybe.

 

[Cherry Cola]

TJ's are the most irritable types afaik

 

[TheManBeyond]

indeed, my ESTJ sister is a perfect example
i see myself as a sanguine, like 80%

 

[Seteleechete]

TJ's are the most irritable types afaik

STJs ugh, I admitt myself to being prejudicesed against them. At least, they sometimes can be reasoned with.

 

[Analyzer]

Some good stuff there. I can see how INTP's can be considered phlegmatic/choleric. Both temperaments want to have control over the outcome, but phlegmatic seems to be more concerned with the requirements necessary as they are more inwardly focused and have a longer response delay. This goes along with how Keirsey suggests NT's as a group are chloeric, making the INTP the phlegmatic of the group. Each Kiersey group(NT,SJ,SP,NJ) has one of each temperaments, and one that's pure as is the case with ENTJ.

That multi-system chart correlates with the interactions styles nicely - http://www.bestfittype.com/Models/InteractionStyles.cfm

 

[The Gopher]

Gotta be INFP's they don't have Fe (Fi dom isn't useful) and they have Ne with inferior Te which is pretty much useless. They do have Si though.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

ENTJ is probably the best equipped(so then INFP?), my uncle who I've typed as such seems to have just coasted through life without any real difficulties. He has several kids, multiple lovers, had a couple successful businesses, goes hiking, running, and takes care of his physical health (a recent thing). I really don't know what his weakness is. Time?

 

[Yellow]

Gotta be INFP's they don't have Fe (Fi dom isn't useful) and they have Ne with inferior Te which is pretty much useless. They do have Si though.

For some reason "worst super power ever" went through my head as I read this. But really, the more I read, the more I think that being Fi dom really would suck most of the time.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Partly.

I have a friend (Eric B), he posts on some other forums and has posted extensively on the intersection of humors (including the fifth humor, supine) with MBTI... I'll have to see if I can find some of his posts. His posts can be long and probably more useful versus me trying to mentally speculate on the details of what he perceived a year or two after I read them.

EDIT: Well, maybe I misremembered. Here are his thoughts from 2010:
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...seys-book-proves-nts-choleric-phlegmatic.html


Then December 2014:



multi-system chart:

Spoiler

There was this recently as well -- he was reviewing a book about ministry, but all the type discussion is secular.

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-book-aps-temperament-system-god-created.html

He's had more stuff, I just can't find it right now.

Hmm I can certainly relate to being phlegmatic and choleric and I defintely see myself dipping into being supine but also very sanguine as well.

So by looking at the chart it looks like I can slide to the left to being an INFP [phlegmatic/supine] (which I completely agree, with the Fi just completley overpowering me briefly sometimes. i find it liberating at times but also sometimes unhealthy), and going down to being an ENTP [phlegmatic/saguine] when I feel like I'm in a comfortable enviorment to socialize. On meloncholy.. I get meloncholic but I usually quickly come out of that state, and it often isn't a driving factor in my decisions, so I guess I don't go up a square to being an INTJ a lot, or to sliding to the right to become an ISTP (or maybe I do?).

Hmmm I sort of have this funny feeling that people have this 'center square' type and can deviate vertically or horizontially on the chart due to a catalyst of somesort. I also don't think it's a static x/y axis model but more of a spherical one (?). Like for example if you are an ENTJ you can slide up to being an ENTP but also slide down to become an INTJ (and slide to the right to an ESTJ).

Did I like, just hit a goldmine?

 

[OrLevitate]

no you're in lala land
HEY

find a group of like 50 people, maybe go door to door acting like you're doing a legit survey. ask them questions, be amicable, try to get personal, use yellow's question list, get invited inside, say your company is a hub for many organizations and gets a new survey each week, schedule weekly meetings, take lots of notes, compare/contrast 50 people's personalities, create framework, make some new terms, use foundational bias to prove a god theory, make questionaire for your new system, attach better relationship/better career/ better life promises to test, make tons of money, accidently be nonchalant and stumped when asked what type you are in your system when asked in interview/ improvise bs, realize you just didn't understand psychology and were reinventing 2k year old psychology, realize psychology is mental constructs/tools/hokum/heuristics compared to neuroscience

 

[onesteptwostep]

lololol

oh come on, is curiosity a sin?

 

[Analyzer]

no you're in lala land
were reinventing 2k year old psychology, realize psychology is mental constructs/tools/hokum/heuristics compared to neuroscience

What is neuroscience based on?

 

[OrLevitate]

u mad bro?

 

[Analyzer]

u mad bro?

Nah my Fe wasn't violated, but my Ne is looking for some perspectives.

 

[AbstractCanvas]

definitely ENTJs. making all that money but not having enough time to spend it must be really depressing.
it's may be different in other parts of the world but in the west i suppose "success" is least attainable in the real world for INFPs. however when they find a good path for them, they'll be capable of making something for themselves that is more comfortable than what some of the other types are capable of. i'd say it's hardest for them to initiate any form of real movement in the real world given the relatively impossible goals that they have a tendency of setting for themselves (among other things). perhaps INFJs experience the other side of the coin with the added difficulty of being the rarest type. i'd imagine it's worse for males too (as with INFPs). it just doesn't look that way for INFJs from the outside looking in.
The ESTJ probably has it the easiest to be honest. they are more happy to play it safe than ENTJs and find more value in the smaller things and the material life that western systems have to offer. generally western systems are more closely related with SJ values than any of the other types.

 

[AbstractCanvas]

find a group of like 50 people, maybe go door to door acting like you're doing a legit survey.

Bare in mind that this is a forum filled with mostly INTPs

 

[The Gopher]

definitely ENTJs. making all that money but not having enough time to spend it must be really depressing.

Hence the solution is to marry INFP's and let them spend all the money solving two problems with one marriage.

 

[RandomGeneratedName]

Perhaps if it was which type struggles the most with PEOPLE,

Wouldn't be suprised if it was INTPs.

Struggles most with life though?
Well I actually don't know that many types personally, I am close to an INFJ though, and to be fair they seem to have it pretty tough. (maybe cause dating me, the type who struggles the most with people? )

(INTP + INFJ = "Golden couple") FYI.

INFJs have massive identity issues for starters.
Maybe an INFJ would be better at explaining why they struggle the most in life?
and if indeed they think they might actually be that type.

INTPs struggle most with people, not life...

 

[dark+matters]

I'm pretty sure that INTPs overall struggle the most- over INFPs as well. People are just not logical. Not at all. And they never will be. Being independent, contrarian about ideas, easily bored and critical of society overall is not an easy path. If you can latch onto a small number of highly special people or organizations who respond to your feelings, that seems like a more effective longer-term strategy to achieve success for larger numbers of people (like many INFPs do. It's not a bad way to go). But surely, it depends on circumstances more than anything. An ESTJ born in a slum during the French revolution is not going to have as comfortable a life as an ESFP born into a theatre family.

 

[RedQueenTheory]

Infj here. It took me a year to acquiesce to my mbti doom. But, I submit. I have come up as ENFJ, ENTJ and once or twice as an INTP or INTJ. I don't have the confidence to call myself an intj, entj, or intp- so that about narrows it down. Overall I'm an IDC anymore. I hold ambivert tendencies- Xnxj. Ti is strong , but Te is a little stronger. Fe is great, Se is not half bad. Ni is awesome, Ne is pretty good, as well. Si is blurry- my worst imo. Fe good, fi is Supposedly weak- but I like it this way. Fi should be weak if you pursue growth. If I agave to deal with the very same me for another 50 years, I'll go mad.
So, INFJ struggles with identity- yes/no. It's a struggle with REALITY for me. How something presents is rarely what it is... Not sure if INTPs can conjure this, but I'll try: having the ability to "feel" others for the purpose of this text is defined as: "not a mystical ability, but as NI offering a strikingly accurate, but unfocused perception of a person/their circumstances". Unintentionally, I am constantly soaking new info from a persona, subsequently I am forming guttural theories about their "truth" (perceptions of the world?)

In a room full of people, I'm in the middle of dozens of little tug-o-wars that, to me, represent "ways of existing". My overarching objective is to uncover the truth behind all perceptions/understanding, so perhaps the way this displays in my everyday is to uncover the spectrum of micro-truths on which people operate. NI gives me quick snapshots (images, melodies, lyrics, words, Etc) of what each individual's existence may be like. Every individual becomes a host to a theory that I will test my understanding of via interaction, questioning, and observations. (NI is terribly inaccurate when its biased. It's absolutely abhorable to me the amount of time I spend looking at the same piece of information from every perspective I can find- to find the theme thats most universally represented from all given perspectives.) If i don't spend an exorbitant amount of time whittling, honing, and juxtaposing my "intuitive theories" against a higher reality/truth... Disaster. (I repeat, disaster.)
And herein lies my most inconquerable foe- the "truth". Perception is reality, right? (So I'm told. To me- it can't be so. "Reality" is a concept that humans created to denounce another's perspective. There is no 1 reality, there are many existing next to each other.) To be imbued upon by many peoples "truths", creates this bizarre effect (for me) where everything is simultaneously true and untrue.

“I imagine your mind, and especially what your mind thinks about my mind, and what your mind thinks about what my mind thinks about your mind.” Charles Horton Cooley.

Cooleys theory of looking glass self was attempting to speak to self-image. But... I think that I believe that the examinations of the perceptions/misperceptions of the individual leads to the ability to extrapolate on a higher truth, however impermanent. Consequently, there is something dark in me that acknowledges that I enjoying seeking answers to irrelevant questions bc... Well, perhaps it's a familiar game that I am skilled with. INFJ is hard, yeah. I wouldn't trade me, though...

Tldr: istjs are awful. I would vote them off island earth.

 

[Oddity]

Interesting. I do see a bit of choleric in some of the members on this forum, but not the majority

Examples?

The Phlegmatic's lack of a motivation becomes their driving need: to protect their low energy reserve.[15]

Ah, Enneagram type 5.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/typefive.asp#.VStMfZOo24b
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeFiveOverview.asp#.VStMfJOo24a

The only thing to ever describe my personality and life as uncannily as INTP descriptions.

TJ's are the most irritable types afaik

Pretty much.

 

[Architect]

That's a broad category, there's many aspects to the question. I know they studied who has the least job satisfaction, which was INTP's, next to INFP's. But life in general? I think INTP's adjust fairly well to it, other than the job thing. ISFJ males in my experience seem to fit life the least. They attach onto the past and do nothing with themselves.

I think your category is too broad to answer properly.

 

[Cherry Cola]

That's a broad category, there's many aspects to the question. I know they studied who has the least job satisfaction, which was INTP's, next to INFP's. But life in general? I think INTP's adjust fairly well to it, other than the job thing. ISFJ males in my experience seem to fit life the least. They attach onto the past and do nothing with themselves.

I think your category is too broad to answer properly.

wut abot infjs?

 

[Jennywocky]

wut abot infjs?

wut abot dem?

 

[The Gopher]

wut abot infjs?

INFJ's don't struggle with life. They struggle with themselves. #ISTJ's are so deep.

 

[Cherry Cola]

wut abot dem?

I want listen to architect provide info abot infjs agen

 

[Cherry Cola]

INFJ's don't struggle with life. They struggle with themselves. #ISTJ's are so deep.

fuckoff dumbfuck sensor

go masturbate to the local societal norms of your childhood

 

[hepiaaro]

I would also say that Fi (INFP/ENFP) types I know have a tendency to make systematic explanations to their shortcomings that tend to mean "nothing could be done" or "it has no meaning to me" and then firmly believe it contrary to the reality of their situation. They usually rely on extenuating circumstances and their erroneously formed conclusions to find some kind of consistent explanation to their failure. Prone to experience cognitive dissonance a lot.

Not true. We, like everyone else, draw conclusions based on what we know about the situation and what we value. The language we use is different than yours, so maybe you're just hearing us wrong.

 

[Crux_Cheetah]

I've known a few ENFJs who grew depressed and moody. They can often be hypersensitive and emotional, I've known a few of them and they seemed stressed out.
INFPs, INTPs, ISFPs and INFJs probably suffer a lot too.

 

[sushi]

stupid people or overintelligent people

you have to be in the golilocks zone

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I would think it would be INFP instead. Ns are rarer so more perceived as more unusual, introverts have a harder time putting themselves out there, P types have a harder time with organisation, and F rather than T because F types tend to go along more with other people rather than making their own wants apparent.

 

[reloaded]

Give INFPs some credit. When they use their Te well enough, they can actually be pretty successful. I know an INFP who was close to being a millionaire, but he donated most of his wealth. I don't think INFPs have it the hardest. If anything, INxPs should share that title. INFPs usually have a very strong passion for something, which I believe makes living easier since they have something they love/believe in enough. INTPs, on the other hand, may suffer from nihilism.

 

[QuickTwist]

Unfair question.

Anyways, its nice to know that this forum is made up of mostly INTPs and INFPs.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Give INFPs some credit. When they use their Te well enough, they can actually be pretty successful. I know an INFP who was close to being a millionaire, but he donated most of his wealth. I don't think INFPs have it the hardest. If anything, INxPs should share that title. INFPs usually have a very strong passion for something, which I believe makes living easier since they have something they love/believe in enough. INTPs, on the other hand, may suffer from nihilism.

I was thinking along the lines of Feeling types being more altruistic, and altruism being evolutionarily successful largely due to increase the fitness of the group as a whole rather than just the individual. I think this would even out, especially given that Feeling types are supposedly a bit more common, and so a Feeler will benefit another Feeler moreso than a Thinker would, however in the case of INFPs who are both introverted and intuitive, they may not get the full benefits that would be received by being around other Feeling types. I would say that a Thinker will deal much better with isolation. This is of course regarding the more extreme cases of the type, such as a highly avoidant INFP.