R3TR0

ESFJ(or perhaps maybe just an damaged and insecure
Anybody closely aquatinted with one? How do your interactions with them usually go?

Also, sorry if it triggers you that I posted this in the Suggestions Questions & Feedback section, didn't know you cant delete a thread.

Decipheris

What is this thing you call "happiness"?
Both my grandparents are ESFJs.
And to be quite frank, I can't stand them.
They don't quite understand my needs or even the definition of "space", for that matter.
They are kind- very much so. Perhaps a tad too much, however, in the sense that they are suffocating.
In general, I don't usually get along well with that type..
Any sort of communication spawns a confliction of interests.

Creeping Death

Consigliere
If I could find a good example of what would be considered a simple minded and basic person, it would probably be an ESFJ.

It's like they have absolutely no critical thinking skills. The poster above me said it well, being very nice to the point of smothering, not understanding that you need space. It's also not hard for them to get emotionally worked up.

I guess they serve some positive purposes. If you are one of their superiors they'll mindlessly do whatever you say. They can do good in service occupations.

Reluctantly

Resident disMember
I think I share the same sentiments. Though now that I'm older, I'm much better at maintaining boundaries and have actually become somewhat friends with someone that has more ESFJ traits than any others. We help each other and can confide in one another at times. But I just can't be around her in large doses and occasionally we seem to frustrate one another just because of our differences, regardless. so yeah.

Reluctantly

Resident disMember
If I could find a good example of what would be considered a simple minded and basic person, it would probably be an ESFJ.

It's like they have absolutely no critical thinking skills. The poster above me said it well, being very nice to the point of smothering, not understanding that you need space. It's also not hard for them to get emotionally worked up.

I guess they serve some positive purposes. If you are one of their superiors they'll mindlessly do whatever you say. They can do good in service occupations.
ohh, but I don't think they are simple-minded. Sometimes those types can be aggressive or overly-pushy and it works for them. Most of them don't seem to like to be passive or have to put too much thought into something, which does sometimes means a lack of critical thinking.

I also haven't experienced that they will just do what they are told. If they respect their boss, they seem to, but if they don't, they will appear amiable and pleasing to them, all the while doing things behind their back; they can be pretty domineering, while still trying to be nice about it all. I think I find that sort of thing frustrating because I don't really know how they feel, like they want to have good feelings towards me, even when they don't. And I'm just not afraid of negative emotions like they seem to be.

think again losers
I don't trust myself to type people down to that level of specificity, but my mother and sister are both potential candidates.

I tend to be quiet around them, mirroring their thoughts back to them to make them easier to digest. They're perpetually caught up in some drama or other, which I try to help them explore from the other person's view. We get along fine, though if ever I talk about my stuff they are worn out immediately, so while I get to know all their ins and outs, it often feels like they haven't updated their ideas of me since my childhood (outside of my service as a sounding board).

Columbo

Detecting...
ESFJs amd INTPs do not mix well imo.

had to divorce one a couple of years ago.

married before i understood/ appreciated MBTI.

biggest frustration with them has been articulated marvelously well in preceeding posts.

in essence ESFJs lack introspection/ deep coginitive abilities. their superficialities combined with inevitable psychological projections upon everyone around them causes much needless emotional drama/ destruction in their paths and wakes. ESFJs seem to love the emotional drama. INTPs abhor it.

note: my second least fav type is ESTJ.

good luck out there INTs...its an ESF world.

QuickTwist

Spiritual "Woo"
I agee.

I think they think with their gut (or feelings) far too often. I don't see a clear progression of thought in them. They just sorta do stuff without putting much thought into it unless its for stuff like gifts. Its kinda disgusting to think about how they just want to be oh so appreciated for their (IMHO) poorly thought out actions. In my experience they are loud and gregarious so not my cup of tea. Get a couple in a group when I am there and I will wish I hadn't been born. (That last bit is a little hyperbole, for flavor sake)

R3TR0

ESFJ(or perhaps maybe just an damaged and insecure
ohh, but I don't think they are simple-minded. Sometimes those types can be aggressive or overly-pushy and it works for them. Most of them don't seem to like to be passive or have to put too much thought into something, which does sometimes means a lack of critical thinking.

I also haven't experienced that they will just do what they are told. If they respect their boss, they seem to, but if they don't, they will appear amiable and pleasing to them, all the while doing things behind their back; they can be pretty domineering, while still trying to be nice about it all. I think I find that sort of thing frustrating because I don't really know how they feel, like they want to have good feelings towards me, even when they don't. And I'm just not afraid of negative emotions like they seem to be.
I completely agree with Reluctantly, but I can see how on the surface, ESFJ’s can appear submissive and simple minded, this is mainly due to the fact that ESF’s don’t want to waste time doing something they don’t think is fun and their main sources of fun happens in a social setting(it’s a place where they can entertain, flirt, and come up with new ideas and new information) so they can appear submissive to other people, but it’s really only they like that person or at the very least find them to be a valuable source of information. I would definitely say I’m pushy towards people I don’t want to be around or don’t want to listen to(mainly my parents), I lie to them on a regular basis(mainly because they’re baby boomers; out of touch with current society). I feel like, because I’m so polite and helpful to strangers and outcasts, that entitles me to be lazy and not care about my academic and cheat through school. As bad as all that sounds, I’m very proud of who I am, which is something I don’t really see in INTP’s for as smart as they are. My parent’s often say I don’t do anything, not true, I come up with book ideas, and I expand on those ideas not by writing, but buy meeting other people and learning about something I can put in my books, I also randomly come up with interesting visuals, like a dream; they're constructed by random things you see and think about through the day.

R3TR0

ESFJ(or perhaps maybe just an damaged and insecure
If I could find a good example of what would be considered a simple minded and basic person, it would probably be an ESFJ.

It's like they have absolutely no critical thinking skills. The poster above me said it well, being very nice to the point of smothering, not understanding that you need space. It's also not hard for them to get emotionally worked up.

I guess they serve some positive purposes. If you are one of their superiors they'll mindlessly do whatever you say. They can do good in service occupations.
Not a bait post at all, but I was pretty drunk when I posted it, not to mention I'm not all that bright to begin with.

INTPiee

Redshirt
My auntie is a potential ESFJ, to be honest I get along with her fine. She understands and brings out the Fe in me. The only bit that is a little (very) frustrating is that she is overly emotional and hates introspection.

Other than that I quite enjoy her company.

R3TR0

ESFJ(or perhaps maybe just an damaged and insecure
My auntie is a potential ESFJ, to be honest I get along with her fine. She understands and brings out the Fe in me. The only bit that is a little (very) frustrating is that she is overly emotional and hates introspection.

Other than that I quite enjoy her company.
Thanks for the comment, that's good to hear, because I find INTP's to be very cool, interesting people, from the few that I've met online and in real life.

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Niclmaki

Disturber of the Peace
One of my closest friends is an ESFJ, we get along just fine and share some similar interests. The only things I could see being an issue are her arguments. Usually only supported by the statement, "because it isn't supposed to be that way!"

Edit: oh, they also really really really enjoy complaing about people. Usually doesn't bother me, as they just want someone to complain to. But they can go on for a long time.

Ex-User (8886)

Well-Known Member
The problem with ppl on this forum is most have major difficulties with typing. They just have Ne idea and instantly agree it as a truth. What a lack of self criticism. But I was same when I was Beginner 4 years ago. First learn how to type ppl then tell stories, because you are ignorants.

Esfj is best type for romantic relationship, they make First step, mantain the relationship, help with your awkward around ppl. Protect you from other mindless F types, Care about your health and everyday Life and they are funny. If you want evidence, take a look on second Einstein s wife. She was Esfj and they were very happy.

Jennywocky

guud languager
It depends on the maturity level of the ESFJ, as it does for EVERY type (and every type has flaws and strengths). I'll be honest, a portion of the bitching comes across as inexperience bitching about inexperience, and it doesn't help when typically the INTP/ESFJ relationship in question is usually a child/parent relationship because then you have a type who thrives on imposing structure using their authority to limit a type that values freedom and exploration and challenging rules outside of tradition.

My house agent (I just bought a house over the last two months) is an ESFJ, I think. This was great for me, because she was good at the stuff I needed her to be good at because I was bad at it. She was very outgoing, she was very proactive, she was always reaching out to contact people who needed to be contacted. She never complained about driving to see house after house even though I was on the other side of the city. She would check in with me and make sure things were good. She stayed on top of all the practical concerns. She had accumulated a lot of hands-on knowledge not just of houses in general, but residential areas around here. She also fought for me, when I was tired and/or didn't know the rules as well; in fact, her black and white way of "right and wrong" in how the house purchase should go led her to ask for more for me than I wanted to ask from my quiet, laid-back, "fair" viewpoint, and I ended up getting some things I would have never asked for when we were negotiating with sellers. She also was concerned about my feeling good about things, which was important because I tend to shirk that part by nature -- I basically had someone looking out for me.

Where her maturity came in (versus an immature ESFJ):
- Like I said, she knew a bunch of shit about houses -- what's good, what's bad, the problem areas. ESFJs aren't dumb, but they usually need a learning curve period and hands-on experience to accumulate knowledge. My agent was pretty smart about houses.
- She wasn't overbearing -- she could channel her energy and release it in ways that did not bowl me over or cause problems.
- She didn't take differences of opinion or my quietness at times personally. It wasn't about her. She recognized it was just me and nothing personal.
- Sometimes she had strong advice, but she never judged me for doing something different.

We had a conversation after closing. I had given the prior owner an extra day in the house (for cash) to finish moving, and the bastard left a freezer in the basement that I had told him before I didn't want and that he never put in the contract. Basically, instead of telling me he didn't want it, he just said nothing and pretended to go along (passive aggressive), then refused to contact me about it despite both agents advising this and thinking he was being a shit. He had left a $1000 check with me in case the house was damaged after closing, and my agent told me to cash it and pay for removal, then send him the remainder. The thing is that was a lot of money for me to randomly deposit and then write him a personal check back for a chunk of money... I didn't want to dick either of us over. He also was being a pissant about it, he contacted me in mid-week, didn't even mention the freezer, and got all in MY face, demanding his check back and that I was being an asshat by suggesting I would take the cost of freezer removal out of his check. Like, apparently it was all my fault the problem existed + we hadn't talked, when he was being asked to contact me. Getting back to my agent: She said if it were her, she'd just deposit the money, then send him a check for the remainder after the freezer was removed by someone. (That was her gut, moral, black and white instinct.) But she could also acknowledge on her own some of the other issues involved, and what a hassle it was, and maybe he had already stopped payment, and he'd probably throw a fit about it and it could create legal complications since technically it was after closing and so I owned the house and the property might be legally mine, etc., and I didn't want to send the guy large sums of money, etc. We were talking by phone, and after discussing some of the complications, I said, "In the big scheme of things, I keep reminding myself it's a freezer, maybe$100 to get rid of, and it's not worth a lot of drama and conflict when there are bigger things to deal with." She said she admired that and didn't know how I could approach it that way, because she's not that way.

Basically, long story short, she seemed to be a pretty balanced ESFJ even if still ESFJ. I'm glad she was my agent.

I also have a personal friend who teaches elementary school kids who is ESFJ. She can be a little frustrating at times because she does usually have an opinion and can sometimes take a strong stance out of the box. She also can have an emotional reaction to things without thinking them through. At the same time, she's respectful of my thoughts, listens carefully to what I have to say, and we usually learn from each other -- once I explain some other perspectives, she's very honest ("Oh, I hadn't looked at it that way before, that makes sense."). And again, she's good at stuff I'm not and vice versa. She's more proactive than me, and looks out for my feelings when I've tended to set them aside too much.

(As far as age range, these two are both in their 40's.)

green acid

Active Member
I live in a small town, which already makes it an ESFJ culture. Some of my friends and neighbors are ESFJ's. They believe in boosterism, and are concerned with local issues and institutions. Concerning me, they wonder why I don't have a TV (not normal). They talk about other people incessantly, and can get very worked up doing so. They love their dogs to the point of giving up their lives to save them. If they like you, they'll look out for you, which is great. If they don't like someone, they persecute them, or at least gossip about them. I think they misread other people's behavior frequently, giving very, very conventional explanations. Only one of my close friends is ESFJ. He's smart and can solve Rubik's cube. My number one complaint about the ESFJ Myers-Briggs type is that they're so boring.

Rixus

I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
My experience of ESFJ's is a little limited. I can think of one confirmed and one I strongly suspect.

The first actually introduced me to the MBTI thingy. He was running a seminar on customer care and analysed us, putting us into IT, IF, ET or EF, but not bothering with deeper than that. It was just to illustrate that different co-workers and customer needed to be handled differently. He also said he was an ESFJ. Gave a decent lecture and I could follow what he was saying and even agreed. Not everyone liked the way he talked about micro-analysing every interaction with customers because all those details are completely irrelevant, but it did made sense. Only trouble was, when we were left in a room for a few minutes to interact later I think I was as alien to him as he was to me and we just couldn't seem to establish a dialogue (I swear I could see the sweat building on his forehead as he just wanted to run away from the odd person). So, no problem with him really and understood him professionally, just don't really get them as a person.

The other which I strongly suspect is a less healthy example is my sister in law. Attention seeking, pathological lying issues, self harming behaviour, a lot of people have no patience for her. I don't mind her - I can usually tell when she's lying and just ignore the blatant attention seeking behaviour and she seems just fine.

zeemal

Redshirt
The problem with ppl on this forum is most have major difficulties with typing. They just have Ne idea and instantly agree it as a truth. What a lack of self criticism. But I was same when I was Beginner 4 years ago. First learn how to type ppl then tell stories, because you are ignorants.

Esfj is best type for romantic relationship, they make First step, mantain the relationship, help with your awkward around ppl. Protect you from other mindless F types, Care about your health and everyday Life and they are funny. If you want evidence, take a look on second Einstein s wife. She was Esfj and they were very happy.

Good for relationship, yes. I sort of am with in one but well.. I don't know. He's too mushy. I guess. That is the only problem. Which is actually not a problem at all - just not compatible with me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Architect

Professional INTP
My house agent (I just bought a house over the last two months) is an ESFJ, I think.
Hey congrats about the house (just caught this thread). Exciting. FWIW on the fridge, I've gotten to the point where I fight back on stuff like that - except it's not a fight. I just take a logical Spock approach and act like that "You didn't take care of the Fridge, required me to, so I took out $100 plus$100 fee for my time" and send a registered cashiers cash. Works pretty well, I feel good about doing the logically right thing, and usually works in my favor than my previous "it doesn't matter in the scheme of things".

Anyhow my HS best friend was (is, though we live in the same town aren't in regular contact) an ESFJ. It was a good match as long as you don't expect any intellectual rigor or mutual understanding at all. The good thing is that, at least in this case, he let me spout off about my theories and ideas. Understanding little I guess, but at least I could talk. The ESTJ's are more activist in shutting down conversation they don't like, either actively or passively (father is ESTJ and had a different HS friend who was one. In fact the ESFJ and ESTJ are still friends, while I'm off on my own, go figure).

Jason988

Member
Married to ESFJ and only issues are when she talks about people stuff. She will start to tell me something and I will cut her off with "if this is from Facebook I absolutely no interest in hearing this. Call your mom she likes talking about non sense and people." ESFJ and INTJ work because she is controlling about things I don't care about (organization of house, kids appointment times and people type stuff). I am the way with my work and gym time. She can be aggressive but I think that I am just as much if not more so. Now if it's a topic we both try to take lead on then we can get fireworks going because most likely neither of us back down.

Reluctantly

Resident disMember
Well..having to deal with one right now. She's supposed to be helping me get a townhouse, but she's dragging her ass on the paperwork and blaming me for it, not to mention she's been texting my friend updates, thinking it's me. And she talks forever and I had to listen to an excuse about her computer crashing and meanwhile, I have no place to live yet...kind of annoyed. Reminds me, I need to call her and tell her she has the wrong number.

Cleopatra Selene II

Member
I know a lot of ESFJs. As an INTP, it is interesting how we interact.

Grandmother: I get along with my grandmother even though she does not understand me. I only started talking to her recently though (after my mom died). She does irritate me sometimes when she unwittingly insults my appearance or implies that I follow gender-stereotypes.

Aunt: I get along with her since she is very well developed. She is my favorite aunt. She does not make rude comments like the other ESFJs I know. She is caring and more tolerant of other personalities than the other ESFJs I know. I had no conflicts with her even when I spent a week with her on a school bus trip in New York City.

Teacher: I have an ESFJ teacher who I did not like much. She made rude comments without thinking they were rude. She was somewhat rude when my mom died. She did not understand me and tried to force me to be more emotional. I could not stand her teaching style either (explaining every little thing and taking such a long time to do it; I would rather work independently).

Guidance Counselor: I do not get along with her. She hates my guts. I used to be close friends with her INTP son (who she did not get along with). She used to be nice to me until I started having friendship issues with her son. Every time I see her in the hallway she glares at me. She never respected my personal boundaries either. I used to have to go in and talk to her after the death of my mom and she ended up telling some of the things I said to her son and other teachers. She also did not respect my physical boundaries and when I got back to school after my mom died she said, "I know you don't like hugs but you are getting one anyway" and proceeded to hug me. She even made her family hug me at my mom's funeral (her son who was my friend knew about my boundaries and didn't want to hug me and only did after she yelled at him three times).

trueneutral

Redshirt
I tend not to get along super well with any extroverted personality types. The ESFJ types I have encountered were a bit rude and talked over me, not a big fan of them

Mxx

Active Member
They serve their purpose in society. There are many men and women who need and want someone to take control of their lives the way an ESFJ does or tries to.

I think I get under their skin more than they get under mine, as I simply refuse to play by their rules. When they respect my boundaries and independence, and refrain from using emotional manipulation, I can see eye to eye with them.

Cleopatra Selene II

Member
My opinion of a particular ESFJ degraded a bit more after I found out that my close friends ESFJ mom started being sweet on my dad right after my mom died (like days after). The ESFJ is married (with four kids) and a high school guidance counselor. My dad started avoiding her because when he had to go into her office to deal with scheduling or school stuff, she would start complaining about her husband, sympathizing with my dad's issues, start acting overly sweet, and giggling/laughing at everything he says. I have known her since I was five (their family was friends of my family) and have never seen her act that animated/giggly.