# Whats The most intellectual poem you'd use to swoon a potential mate?

##### Member
Okay I'll start. This also happens to be my most favorite poem. And I have delusions of landing my dream woman with this suave stack of lines right here:

Love and Tensor Algebra
from "The Cyberiad" by Stanislaw Lem

Come, let us hasten to a higher plane
Their indices bedecked from one to n
Commingled in an endless Markov chain!

Come, every frustrum longs to be a cone
And every vector dreams of matrices.
Hark to the gentle gradient of the breeze:
It whispers of a more ergodic zone.

In Riemann, Hilbert or in Banach space
Let superscripts and subscripts go their ways.
Our asymptotes no longer out of phase,
We shall encounter, counting, face to face.

Thou'lt tell me all the constants of thy love;
And so we two shall all love's lemmas prove,
And in our bound partition never part.

For what did Cauchy know, or Christoffel,
Or Fourier, or any Bools or Euler,
Wielding their compasses, their pens and rulers,
Of thy supernal sinusoidal spell?

Cancel me not - for what then shall remain?
Abscissas some mantissas, modules, modes,
A root or two, a torus and a node:
The inverse of my verse, a null domain.

Ellipse of bliss, converge, O lips divine!
the product o four scalars is defines!
Cyberiad draws nigh, and the skew mind
Cuts capers like a happy haversine.

I see the eigenvalue in thine eye,
I hear the tender tensor in thy sigh.
Bernoulli would have been content to die,
Had he but known such a^2 cos 2 phi!

#### EndogenousRebel

##### We're all trying our best. Aren't we?
You're right to think your delusional, I couldn't imagine a poem getting me laid, but hey I'm sure you could

The Red Wheelbarrow
By William Carlos Williams

so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens

--------------------------

I feel like there is a lot think about with this poem even with it's shortness.

#### Rebis

##### Blessed are the hearts that can bend
Honestly, the first four lines of Inauguries of innocence:

"To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour. "

Then afterwards you lean in and go for it. I think it's pretty effective, it can easily be disambiguated to:

big in small,
big in small (2)
big in small(3),
big in small(4),

big in small is beautiful idea

#### Rebis

Ba dum tss! ;o

##### Member
I am not disappointed

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
I've begun my voyage in a paper boat without a bottom; I will fly to the moon in it. I have been folded along a crease in time, a weakness in the sheet of life.

Now, you've settled on the opposite side of the paper to me; I can see your traces in the ink that soaks through the fibre, the pulped vegetation. When we become waterlogged, and the cage disintegrates, we will intermingle.

When this paper aeroplane leaves the cliff edge, and carves parallel vapour trails in the dark, we will come together.
Not suitable for courting, perhaps, but romantic, and quite beautiful. Something you would read to your late wife. The symbolism isn't obvious unless you have read the other poems in Dear Esther, but I hope you can still appreciate it.

#### Forensic1999

##### Ghost
Velvet curtains swoon the lakes of alabastor swans
Their slender forms of silky slip dip tightly forlorn,
encased in vain cloak, only evoked by their frames.

Like stars to soul is the endless allure for passion.
Porcelain skin could not shelter the candid diadem.
To be the only thing you knew, twas enough for a century.
To be alone again, it was enough that I knew you.

I don't know if its any good, I tried. ))

.

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
To see a world in a punctuation mark...

#### Rebis

##### Blessed are the hearts that can bend
To see a world in a punctuation mark...
or a punctuation in a wild sentence....

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
To see a world in full stop
Heaven in a hyphen
Hold infinity in a dash
And eternity in ellipsis

Quite so, quitely so, quitely so-ington.

#### Rebis

##### Blessed are the hearts that can bend
Prince charming has swept me off my feet!

##### Member
To see a world in full stop
Heaven in a hyphen
Hold infinity in a dash
And eternity in ellipsis

Quite so, quitely so, quitely so-ington.
This is amazing.

##### Member
You're right to think your delusional, I couldn't imagine a poem getting me laid, but hey I'm sure you could

The Red Wheelbarrow
By William Carlos Williams

so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens

--------------------------

I feel like there is a lot think about with this poem even with it's shortness.
Very impressionist aesthetic. I like it.

Yeah I get ya because for me theres many ways to interpret that and look at it from different perspectives etc..

##### Member
I've begun my voyage in a paper boat without a bottom; I will fly to the moon in it. I have been folded along a crease in time, a weakness in the sheet of life.

Now, you've settled on the opposite side of the paper to me; I can see your traces in the ink that soaks through the fibre, the pulped vegetation. When we become waterlogged, and the cage disintegrates, we will intermingle.

When this paper aeroplane leaves the cliff edge, and carves parallel vapour trails in the dark, we will come together.
Not suitable for courting, perhaps, but romantic, and quite beautiful. Something you would read to your late wife. The symbolism isn't obvious unless you have read the other poems in Dear Esther, but I hope you can still appreciate it.
I absolutely appreciate this! So beautiful.

##### Member
Velvet curtains swoon the lakes of alabastor swans
Their slender forms of silky slip dip tightly forlorn,
encased in vain cloak, only evoked by their frames.

Like stars to soul is the endless allure for passion.
Porcelain skin could not shelter the candid diadem.
To be the only thing you knew, twas enough for a century.
To be alone again, it was enough that I knew you.

I don't know if its any good, I tried. ))
I really liked it and I'm glad you shared it

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
Thanks, guys. Peoplesuck's brevity was so inspiring.

Your profile pic. makes it apparent that God is hovering in front of a brain. Man rose from consciousness, not the word of God, acording to Michelangelo, and he managed to have that forever plastered to the roof of one of the most famous churches in the world. I think LOL's the word.

This is about creation, and not romantic, but I was hoping you'd like it. It was inspired by something Jordan Peterson wrote in 12 rules for life, about the snake tempting man with the promise of him being "as gods" omitting that he would only be so in the sense that he'd be conscious, which can be a terrible burden.

From Eden we fell
to the Ghost in the Shell
Now we walk as Gods
but all roads run through hell
is consciousness’ cost
But don’t you fear
it isn’t there

#### Rebis

##### Blessed are the hearts that can bend
How did we fail to mention john milton's paradise lost? There are some beauties in that epic.

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
I've never read that... I'm poorly versed in classical literature. How much do you recommend it?

If you've got a guitar, you'd probably get further with something like this, than poetry:
I love Elliott Smith. Probably takes a certain kind of girl to make her swoon, though.

#### Rebis

##### Blessed are the hearts that can bend
I'm not that into classical literature but it struck a chord with me, it's a divine epic about Heaven and Earth, a lot of the demonic names we know today didn't originate in this bible but instead developed in his epic, neologisms like pandaemonium was used to identify the capital of hell (Pan meaning many, daemon meaning demon). Characters like Beezlebub, Moloch/morgoth one of them were particularly interesting and well-developed.

I didn't read it all from start to finish but the imagery of an epic exchange between the heavens and hell, and how it developed from greed was very interesting. I was never religious but it gave me a good amount of biblical imagery.

I'm not doing it justice here, but let's just say I picked it up form time to time and let it guide me through heaven and hell.

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
Hehe, I might check it out. Keeping a copy around for when the mood strikes seems like a good idea.

#### Rebis

##### Blessed are the hearts that can bend
Pretty sure you can get PDFs online for free too, released in 1600 and all that. I had a paperback which I lent to a friend and never got back, it had a lot of imagery in it.

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
Yeah, project Gutenberg is bound to have it. I don't think a paperback I've borrowed someone has ever come back xD

#### EndogenousRebel

##### We're all trying our best. Aren't we?
I didn't take you for one that enjoyed fan-fiction.

#### Marbles

Lmao...

##### Member
Thanks, guys. Peoplesuck's brevity was so inspiring.

Your profile pic. makes it apparent that God is hovering in front of a brain. Man rose from consciousness, not the word of God, acording to Michelangelo, and he managed to have that forever plastered to the roof of one of the most famous churches in the world. I think LOL's the word.

This is about creation, and not romantic, but I was hoping you'd like it. It was inspired by something Jordan Peterson wrote in 12 rules for life, about the snake tempting man with the promise of him being "as gods" omitting that he would only be so in the sense that he'd be conscious, which can be a terrible burden.

From Eden we fell
to the Ghost in the Shell
Now we walk as Gods
but all roads run through hell
is consciousness’ cost
But don’t you fear
it isn’t there
Interesting. I like it. That ending is hard for me to resolve though. Theres a certain absurdity to it.

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
Interesting. I like it. That ending is hard for me to resolve though. Theres a certain absurdity to it.
Thank you.

The west is obsessed with the idea of "consciousness", without being willing to define it. I think atheists substitute soul for consciousness, still feeling a spiritual need to have a special place in the world. Perhaps consciousness is merely an idea, and you could drop it if you practiced, and simply be present. What would happen if you stopped identifying with your thoughts, and started to regard everything appearing in your mind as complex, sometimes delayed responses to what you take in through your senses?

Then there is the double meaning that though you might consider your consciousness a burden, you're afraid of letting it go. The lines could be read as "but don't you fear: it isn't there", or "but don't you fear (that) it isn't there?"

I wrote this a while ago, but I think those were my thoughts.

#### Tenacity

##### More than methods to the madness
A line of tension,
Allure in flow.
No need to mention
I'm yours to hold.

And all the petals
Say "love me not",
For all the petals
Were born to rot.

What virtue holds
Is what pain takes.
The world will own me,
My mistakes.

When wrinkles age me
When lungs stop time
I'll say to you
Will you be mine?

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
A line of tension,
Allure in flow.
No need to mention
I'm yours to hold.

And all the petals
Say "love me not",
For all the petals
Were born to rot.

What virtue holds
Is what pain takes.
The world will own me,
My mistakes.

When wrinkles age me
When lungs stop time
I'll say to you
Will you be mine?
That is really good. Did you write it?

#### Tenacity

##### More than methods to the madness
A line of tension,
Allure in flow.
No need to mention
I'm yours to hold.

And all the petals
Say "love me not",
For all the petals
Were born to rot.

What virtue holds
Is what pain takes.
The world will own me,
My mistakes.

When wrinkles age me
When lungs stop time
I'll say to you
Will you be mine?
That is really good. Did you write it?
Yes

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
A line of tension,
Allure in flow.
No need to mention
I'm yours to hold.

And all the petals
Say "love me not",
For all the petals
Were born to rot.

What virtue holds
Is what pain takes.
The world will own me,
My mistakes.

When wrinkles age me
When lungs stop time
I'll say to you
Will you be mine?
That is really good. Did you write it?
Yes
Do you write a lot? I've never really been into poetry, but have tentatively explored it the last couple of years. I never write about love, so I've nothing to share here... Have you got more?

#### Tenacity

##### More than methods to the madness
Do you write a lot? I've never really been into poetry, but have tentatively explored it the last couple of years. I never write about love, so I've nothing to share here... Have you got more?
No, not at all. I never write them lately, the last I've written one was probably many years ago, they don't exist in physicality. Just came to me yesterday.

Nice poem @Tenacity
Ty

##### Member
Interesting. I like it. That ending is hard for me to resolve though. Theres a certain absurdity to it.
Thank you.

The west is obsessed with the idea of "consciousness", without being willing to define it. I think atheists substitute soul for consciousness, still feeling a spiritual need to have a special place in the world. Perhaps consciousness is merely an idea, and you could drop it if you practiced, and simply be present. What would happen if you stopped identifying with your thoughts, and started to regard everything appearing in your mind as complex, sometimes delayed responses to what you take in through your senses?

Then there is the double meaning that though you might consider your consciousness a burden, you're afraid of letting it go. The lines could be read as "but don't you fear: it isn't there", or "but don't you fear (that) it isn't there?"

I wrote this a while ago, but I think those were my thoughts.
I would pose that more towards the idea of a sepf more so than consciousness. Awareness for eg. Is a pretty good indicator of it.

Also, its hard to divorce from consciousness since literally everything you are aware of and feel, think, experience, see, hear etc.. happens within the same space of consciousness.

I get what you mean but personally, I think consciousness is like one of those terms like life or death. You can't clearly define it and the definitions of it, even from an empirical objective standpoint tends to change over time.

##### Member
A line of tension,
Allure in flow.
No need to mention
I'm yours to hold.

And all the petals
Say "love me not",
For all the petals
Were born to rot.

What virtue holds
Is what pain takes.
The world will own me,
My mistakes.

When wrinkles age me
When lungs stop time
I'll say to you
Will you be mine?
I like it! The sardonic tonality really comtrasts with the light-hearted aspects of love and attraction.

Just my impression. 2c and all that jazz

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
I would pose that more towards the idea of a sepf more so than consciousness. Awareness for eg. Is a pretty good indicator of it.

Also, its hard to divorce from consciousness since literally everything you are aware of and feel, think, experience, see, hear etc.. happens within the same space of consciousness.

I get what you mean but personally, I think consciousness is like one of those terms like life or death. You can't clearly define it and the definitions of it, even from an empirical objective standpoint tends to change over time.
Consciousness is a useful term, and like you say, context dependent. I just see no need to mystify the phenomenon; it is the result of physiological processes. The brain is a machine. Our mind is structured to store data we take in through our senses. Our "logical circuits" are molded by evolution to store and manipulate information about the world in a way that optimizes our chances of procreation. Our attention (our consciousness if you will, our working memory) is fed memories so that it can adapt old information to new situations. It calls for memories relevant to our current situation, integrates them and carries out a simulation to see what action would lead to the most favorable outcome. There is no mystery. Some ghost in the machine is not "willing" the mind into action. The mind is just a complex framework of molecules, conditioned by the simple process of evolution through billions of years to be as durable as possible, either through longevity or procreation.

##### Member
I would pose that more towards the idea of a sepf more so than consciousness. Awareness for eg. Is a pretty good indicator of it.

Also, its hard to divorce from consciousness since literally everything you are aware of and feel, think, experience, see, hear etc.. happens within the same space of consciousness.

I get what you mean but personally, I think consciousness is like one of those terms like life or death. You can't clearly define it and the definitions of it, even from an empirical objective standpoint tends to change over time.
Consciousness is a useful term, and like you say, context dependant. I just see no need to mystify the phenomenon; it is the result of physiological processes. The brain is a machine. Our mind is structured to store data we take in through our senses. Our "logical circuits" are designed by evolution to store and manipulate information about the world in a way that optimizes our chances of procreation. Our attention (our consciousness if you will, our working memory) is fed memories so that it can adapt old information to new situations. It calls for memories relevant to our current situation, integrates them and carries out a simulation to see what action would lead to the most favorable outcome. There is no mystery. Some ghost in the machine is not "willing" the mind into action. The mind is just a complex framework of molecules, conditioned by the simple process of evolution through billions of years to be as durable as possible, either through longevity or procreation.
I'd disagree with certain aspects of your explanation that undermines the overall argument you're trying to portray. For eg. The brain doesnt store memories, it generates them, even ones youve experienced. Its such a counterintuitive idea it took me
A while to get my head around it.

Also there is no real consensus on what evolution is heading towards, just certain aspects. Evolution isnt god, its a process, thats more and more complicated and chaotic the more you put it within certain contexts.

For eg, when you say ligic circuits are designed by evolution, its a form of fallacy. Theres no agency behind evolution. Also, you see emergence of logical circuits in chemistry, patterns etc... That had nothing to do with biological evolution.

Even if you disregard the existence of consciousness, you can't disregard agency of a sentient being. Regardless of whether its conscious or not. They're much more well defined than consciousness.

Therefore its still a valid effort to try and explore the probability space that's entangled with consciousness.

Regardless of if it exists or not. The question is valid due to the consequences it holds to any answer it would derive from reality and truth.

Just like if theres intelligent life out there in the universe. Both answers are equally terrifying.

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
I'm saying that humans aren't really conscious, I'm certainly not suggesting that evolution is! It is simply a consequence of the logical imperative: what is stable endures.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the brain doesn't store memories. It is not storing raw sensory data, that is for sure. All sensory data goes through a gross compression process, and your reflections on these sensory impression are applied, before you store anything to memory. This is evident from the fact that you probably have no idea what a bike actually looks like. I think 20% manage to decently draw the structure of a bike from memory, and I suspect those 20% have experience drawing, so they've deliberately memorized the bike structure, or conditioned themselves to notice shapes. What most of us store is the "symbol" of a bike. Certain characteristic of the bike which lets us recognize it, and represent it in "consciousness".

On the agency of living beings... Well, agency is a useful concept in everyday life, but when you examine the phenomenon closely, an animal is no more agent than a billiard ball. The mind is a collection of billiard balls, after all.

"Also, you see emergence of logical circuits in chemistry, patterns etc... That had nothing to do with biological evolution. " Well, that has everything to do with biological evolution. That is exactly what biological evolution is.

I completely agree that consciousness is worthy of study, and the first step of study is to define what you are studying. That is what I am trying to do in the poem, and in these texts.

##### Member
I'm saying that humans aren't really conscious, I'm certainly not suggesting that evolution is! It is simply a consequence of the logical imperative: what is stable endures.
Other than it being a personal opinion, please help me.understand why consciousness doesnt exist. (I understand proving a negative is kinda bullshit but still)

I see no evidence for your statement about whats stable endures. Just because it may make sense or is a logical imperative doesn't mean it reflects reality.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the brain doesn't store memories. It is not storing raw sensory data, that is for sure. All sensory data goes through a gross compression process, and your reflections on these sensory impression are applied, before you store anything to memory. This is evident from the fact that you probably have no idea what a bike actually looks like. I think 20% manage to decently draw the structure of a bike from memory, and I suspect those 20% have experience drawing, so they've deliberately memorized the bike structure, or conditioned themselves to notice shapes. What most of us store is the "symbol" of a bike. Certain characteristic of the bike which lets us recognize it, and represent it in "consciousness".
Here is what I meant by how the brain doesn't store memories.

On the agency of living beings... Well, agency is a useful concept in everyday life, but when you examine the phenomenon closely, an animal is no more agent than a billiard ball. The mind is a collection of billiard balls, after all.
Yeah but you're discounting complex systems and emergent immutation of agent based entities.

Just because you dismiss the idea doesn't make it non existent, even if it makes sense semantically.

Its like saying that a human is a bunch of chemical bonds. Technically true, but it doesn't paint the whole picture within its context.

"Also, you see emergence of logical circuits in chemistry, patterns etc... That had nothing to do with biological evolution. " Well, that has everything to do with biological evolution. That is exactly what biological evolution is.
I'm a bit lost here. Logical circuits have existed way before biological evolution ever came to the fray. Biological evolution may have emerged from them, but I doubt that logic comes from biological evolution.

At the root of it, logic based anomalies/systems and biological systems are both SYSTEMS. therefore, the precedence of aspects such as emergence and entropy etc... Is much more than that of biological evolution.

Sure, you may state that biological systems and evolution are logical, but theres plenty of evidence stating otherwise.
Especially with how chaos and quantum effects affect the working of bioligy and evolution.

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
It exists depending on how you define it. What I see no reason to believe in is the ghost in the machine. It is perplexing to me how mysterious people think it is that our experience could arise from neural connctions.
Isn't it axiomatic? What if I rephrased to, what's durable has better chance of enduring?
Here is what I meant by how the brain doesn't store memories
At first glance that looks lile a description of how memories are stored. Did you read the section called "where are memories stored"?
Biological evolution may have emerged from them, but I doubt that logic comes from biological evolution.
We agree on that, then!

##### Member
It exists depending on how you define it. What I see no reason to believe in is the ghost in the machine. It is perplexing to me how mysterious people think it is that our experience could arise from neural connctions.
I don't necessarily agree with the ghost in the machine aspect. The fact that any form of damage to the brain (especially physical) severely affects a person's experience hints at these neurall nets.

Plus, experiences such as lets say laughter, have been found in reality to be a neural net.

You could go one level deeper, and see specific neural nets that develop to identify faces.
The crazy thing about this is that not only has this been shown in human brains but have been seen emerging from neural nets in computers without any human intervention.

Isn't it axiomatic? What if I rephrased to, what's durable has better chance of enduring?

Perhaps it does make sense axiomatically, and is logically consistent, but the more I look into evolution, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Survival of the fittest is also a form of axiomatic statement. But even at that level, some evidence of evolution seems to fly in the face of that aspect.

At first glance that looks lile a description of how memories are stored. Did you read the section called "where are memories stored"?
Yeah, I hope you got by what I meant by how memories aren't stored. Maybe generated is a bit confusing.

I hadn't read that section, but im awarenof the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex and its relationship to memory, but I also know that theres been cases of people leading normal lives without ever having a hippocampus for eg. This has a lot to do with brain plasticity and entrainment.

Theres also been cases where brain damage to the areas where memory is usually 'stored' does little to affect the actual memories. They retain them.

Goee back to the whole aspect of memories not being stored, but generated.

Also has to do with the way information is encoded fractal like within the brain.

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
@daddychaos I don't really know the intricacies and limits to neuroplasticity. It's a fascinating phenomenon, with much more potential than neurologists realized 15 years ago.
I am sceptical of claims of full recovery after a part of the brain has been lost, though. Many of us have heard of the (railroad worker?) who had a bolt rammed through his brain. I've heard it claimed that he was fully functional afterwards, but he actually lost a lot of cognitive functionality, and his life ended up in shambles.

The other day I saw a documentary about a guy who had lost a large part of his hippocampus. With it, he lost the ability to form new memories, and to plan into the future. He seemed relatively normal in conversation.

The same documentary talked about an experiment in which people's brains were scanned while they looked at and thought about certain things. An artificial neural network was then created, which tried to scan the brains of the subjects while they were dreaming. It then had some success in reconstructing images of what they were dreaming about. I didn't pick up on the details, but this was amazing to me. I had no idea we had such capabilities, and I am a little disappointed in myself for not thinking of that application of artificial neural nets. I should look into that some more, if I find the time and energy.

Survival of the fittest is a catch phrase often elaborated upon by frustrated biologists. I think a more apt axiom is: survival of the stable and lucky. I read an article in Scientific American many years ago which postulated that the animals which survived after the ice age largely did so because they were lucky. Other animals, like the sabertooth and mammoth had a bad roll of the dize. Similarly, perhaps our fortune is the reason why we survived, but the neanderthals did not. Well, they survived a little bit, in you and me, unless you are of pure African decent.

I'm still not sure what you mean when you say memories are not stored, they are generated. Let me venture a guess, which is also a true statement according to my understanding of neurology: memories are not imprints of what we take in through our senses, they are heavily processed and compressed version of sensory impressions. You could say the mind takes sensory data, generates a symbol to represent said data, then stores that memory in synaptic networks. Does that sound about right?

Paragraphs would be so useful, but they are deleted upon posting. I might just start formatting with color, cause I guess paragraph functionality can't easily be implemented?