What is reality?

[Rudolph Mondal]

The question is a deceptively simple one...why do things happen?

Why is there change? Why do things move?

Of course, based on our commonsense understanding of the world, we brush off this question for things we deem to be conscious. But what things we deem to be unconscious? What about waves? What about electrons? The wind? Those kinds of things.

Well, I can think of two answers to that question.

Either...

Everything is conscious (not in the reflective sense), that there is some degree of awareness that goes on when an electron moves closer to a positively charged plate. Because really, what are laws? Our laws are based on experiments which try to simplify the myriad of physical phenomena that goes on in the universe. But for these laws to exist, I think there has to some kind of awareness or protoawareness going on.

Or...

I am the only entity that is conscious. (again, not in the reflective sense) That there exists this unchanging four-dimensional block of spacetime and my consciousness passes through that four-dimensional block, causing things to appear to move.

I am more sympathetic to the former, I have to admit.

But I've always wondered if there is a better explanation from which these two lesser explanations emerge. I like to believe there is.

Also, there exists problems with these explanations (or there seem to be problems, at least) if you adopt the view that all there exists to a particular mind are patterns subjective to a particular mind, that there is no objective reality.

Because if the pattern "ant", say, exists only the minds of those which can discern the pattern "ant" then what does it mean to say that an ant is conscious? (you can substitute "ant" with anything else you want, even your closest friend)

What are your thoughts on this?

I realize these thoughts aren't exactly mainstream and probably would garner much derision from the community but I'd like to discuss them anyway. Any takers?

 

[Void]

The question is a deceptively simple one...why do things happen?

Why is there change? Why do things move?

Of course, based on our commonsense understanding of the world, we brush off this question for things we deem to be conscious. But what things we deem to be unconscious? What about waves? What about electrons? The wind? Those kinds of things.

"Words that make questions, sometimes aren't questions at all"
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Well, I can think of two answers to that question.

Either...

Everything is conscious (not in the reflective sense), that there is some degree of awareness that goes on when an electron moves closer to a positively charged plate. Because really, what are laws? Our laws are based on experiments which try to simplify the myriad of physical phenomena that goes on in the universe. But for these laws to exist, I think there has to some kind of awareness or protoawareness going on.

What if I told you that this is the truth?

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Hmm...I realize my post was kinda scattered and badly phrased. I'm looking into exploring this further by reading up on Charles Sanders Peirce's theory of Signs.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

What if I told you that this is the truth?

Truth? I don't know what truth is but all I can say is that it makes sense, to me.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Everything in the universe is made of whatever the substrate of the universe is (Quantum foam or energy or whatever)

Your brain is also made of that same stuff

The Neocortex's (Via Kurzweil's How to Create a Mind) hierarchy of pattern recognizers led to consciousness. (Evolution (random/all directions) headed towards intelligence, fucking beautiful)

Those complex hierarchy of pattern recognizers provided the "conception of awareness."

...


Fuck it, Determinism (Your previous choice >> the latter, the latter is too..."magical")

I realize these thoughts aren't exactly mainstream and probably would garner much derision from the community but I'd like to discuss them anyway. Any takers?

Worry not, here, nothing is off-topic.

 

[RadicalDreamer31]

It amuses me to whom these questions are addressed. Like, "hey google, yeah hi, umm what is reality?"


Read a book.

Or is it that, you want quick opinions to compare them to your own?

WELL THEN if that's the case. IMHHHO reality is............ interesting.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Or is it that, you want quick opinions to compare them to your own?

Yes, that was the whole point.

 

[RadicalDreamer31]

Well. Ask me tomorrow, I will give you a different answer. This statement remains true then too.

All the world is shifting sands.
I am not so certain that I have ever existed outside this moment


Glad I could be of help. Haha, what a lame post

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Everything in the universe is made of whatever the substrate of the universe is (Quantum foam or energy or whatever)

Your brain is also made of that same stuff

The Neocortex's (Via Kurzweil's How to Create a Mind) hierarchy of pattern recognizers led to consciousness. (Evolution (random/all directions) headed towards intelligence, fucking beautiful)

Those complex hierarchy of pattern recognizers provided the "conception of awareness."

...


Fuck it, Determinism (Your previous choice >> the latter, the latter is too..."magical")
/QUOTE]

The line of reasoning I'm coming from right now basically is that what science is an attempt to explain the phenomena that we experience, to not provide an objective description of reality. I guess you could call me an anti-realist in that sense. Some people believe in a mathematical reality, a physical reality and a mental reality. Some people believe in a physical reality and claim that the mental reality is an illusion. I'm that person roughly half the time. The person that I am the other half of the time is one who believes only in mental reality and views physical reality and mathematical reality as being tools to help explain and abstract phenomena we see around us respectively.

There's a Zen Koan whereby two monks see a flag waving in the wind and have an argument.
The first monk says "The flag is moving"
The second monk retorts "The wind is moving"
The grand monk (or something) then comes into the story, smacks both monks on the head with a stick and says "No, no, you fools, the mind is moving"

The point of that Zen Koan is to illustrate that really, you can have multiple perspectives when trying to objectively determine what's true and what's not and that's because there's no objective truth (is that an objective truth?) and there are different ways of going about trying to understand reality.

Kant wrote about the distinction between noumena and phenomena.The noumena might as well not exist because there's no way of experiencing it. What exists is phenomena and phenomena is characterized by lists (or hierarchies) of patterns whereby each pattern is interpreted or translated by the context of other patterns present in a subjective mind. There is no "foundational" pattern, they exist as a web or network or infinite list of patterns which although arranged in a hierarchy, contains no "root" pattern. This is similar to the coherence theory of truth that I happen to subscribe to. I'm still trying to work out how to make sense of all this without the "realist" stance.

After writing all of this, I realize I'm more inclined towards solipsism that anything else. As of now.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

All the world is shifting sands.
I am not so certain that I have ever existed outside this moment

Glad I could be of help. Haha, what a lame post

I think I quite agree with you in that I too am unsure if I have ever existed outside this moment.

And do forgive me for being lame. I am only an egg.

 

[TimeAsylums]

The line of reasoning I'm coming from right now basically is that what science is an attempt to explain the phenomena that we experience

Hence the quote "You are the universe experiencing itself"

I prefer my own "You are the universe experiencing a dissociative fugue"

to not provide an objective description of reality.

that's just what we call it, a "formal definition"

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Hence the quote "You are the universe experiencing itself"

I prefer my own "You are the universe experiencing a dissociative fugue"

But who am I?

What is all of this about?

As far as I know, I exist, and I can be sure of only my existence. But why? How come?

Why does is seem like there are rules I cannot break?

If I'm the universe, why can't I program it according to my will?

Questions...

 

[RadicalDreamer31]

Oh no no no, I was referring to my own post in it's complete lack of usefulness. Any effort to discern reality is a commendable one. But I doubt much can be gained from the inquiry of this board.

 

[TimeAsylums]

But who am I?

What is all of this about?

As far as I know, I exist, and I can be sure of only my existence. But why? How come?

Why does is seem like there are rules I cannot break?


Questions...

some people go to religion

but whatever,

no "meaning"

just evolution's mechanisms

If I'm the universe, why can't I program it according to my will?

AI. (Plus physics + chem + bio + math etc)



Basically, enjoy your experience while you are here.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Basically, enjoy your experience while you are here.

Well, it can be hard with all the nihilistic sentiments I find rising up within me but yeah, I'll try to.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Well, it can be hard with all the nihilistic sentiments I find rising up within me but yeah, I'll try to.

assuming you are an INTP, many of them have admitted to struggling with this for sometime (many other types do to, but just noting that INTPs commonly admit it here), you'll get through it

 

[Spocksleftball]

It amuses me to whom these questions are addressed. Like, "hey google, yeah hi, umm what is reality?"


Read a book.

Or is it that, you want quick opinions to compare them to your own?

WELL THEN if that's the case. IMHHHO reality is............ interesting.

Brilliant! Laughing still. +1

"Hey, yea google, I'm going to have to asked you to come in this Saturday. Yea, that would be great"

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

assuming you are an INTP, many of them have admitted to struggling with this for sometime (many other types do to, but just noting that INTPs commonly admit it here), you'll get through it

On a tangential note, do you think it's possible for someone to have competing Ti and Fi functions such that neither is dominant but they're always fighting for first place?

 

[TimeAsylums]

On a tangential note, do you think it's possible for someone to have competing Ti and Fi functions such that neither is dominant but they're always fighting for first place?

Ugh...I've tried to let MBTI/typology go about arguing these sense...

All I've got for you is

http://www.intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=424017&postcount=94
-My formal Cognitive/Mbti structure
+

www.personalityJunkie.com
-PJ is finally addressing the fact that people are indeed ALL eight functions

www.sociotype.com
-If you REALLLLLLLLY want to know your answer go here, but one thing to note:
Their syntax has one minor difference,

MBTI INTP = sociotype INTj
All the introvert Ps are js and vice versa, but not so for the extroverts
ENTP = ENTP
http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/LII-INTj/ <-- MBTI INTP (aka you)
etc


......

If you have serious specific questions, Ask Architect, but i seriously recommended looking at sociotype



tl;dr people are all 8 functions;

tl;dr tl;dr

anything is possible


tl;dr tl;dr

yes

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Thanks for all the links.
Have you also looked into the enneagram of personality? According to that theory, the type 4 personality (which corresponds mostly to the INFP type) can have a 5 wing (which corresponds mostly to the INTP type) and the 5 personality type can have a 4 wing.

Because the 4 and 5 personality types are so close to each other, I wondered if it was possible for these personalities to manifest in equal strength in a person.

Interestingly, sometimes, when I'm happy and with someone who's easy going, I behave like an ENTP. I guess it's the Ne taking over.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Have you also looked into the enneagram of personality?

I have read 20 books on Jung, I have read PersonalityJunkie, I have read socionics, I have scourged the likes the google...

I have NOT seen anything AMAZING with enneagram, everything I linked to you I found worthy

// I wasn't bragging in the above, just saying what I've found useful and note.
(It is highly unnecessary for the pedestrian into MBTI to read Jung, just to note)

 

[NormannTheDoorman]

I'm not getting a good grasp on noumena and phenomena.


Could you attempt to explain it to a simpleton?

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

I'm not getting a good grasp on noumena and phenomena.


Could you attempt to explain it to a simpleton?

Noumena refers to things-in-themselves, unmediated by the senses while phenomena refers to the appearance of reality that we get when it is mediated by the senses.

I don't think noumena actually exists, for what it's worth.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Reality can go fuck itself.

 

[gilliatt]

Why do things move? I read where a brand new neutron star can spin as much as a thousand times a second. Black hole even faster. You could say every black hole has mass and angular momentum, electric charge. This law of motion, "A body remains at rest or, if already in motion, remains in uniform motion with constant speed in a straight line, unless it is acted on by an unbalanced external force." This is the first law, where Aristotle assumption of a 'natural place'. Newton's view is there is no natural place for any object. So if an object was at rest, it would stay at rest forever. ##Reality: Existence exists-that something exists which we perceive in our conscious. If nothing exists, there can be no consciousness, a consciousness with nothing to be conscious of is a contradiction in terms.