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What do you think of feminism

Ink

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#1
Is feminism overrepresented in western culture today? Should we start a mens rights trend in the other direction?
 

Grayman

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#2
Is feminism overrepresented in western culture today? Should we start a mens rights trend in the other direction?
1) yes
2) no

We should eliminate the grouping eventually in order to fully eliminate discrimination.
 

Analyzer

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#3
wheres the white history month? or what about the straight rights movement?
 

Blarraun

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#5
How about:
Women and Men have no rights. Only human awarness and cognition that does not necessarily need to divide on genders should have its equality and egality to basic freedoms protected.
 
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#7
Yes and no.

Before when woman had far less right it was mandatory for feminist groups to appear for equality. Now it is just so out of hand, women get so much leverage in today's society it is seriously a joke. They claim to be for human rights, yet little to nothing actually includes both genders. Us men are out to be the enemy, we are the blame for skinny models, I personally think super skinny women are sick and quite honestly, models look so damn fake that I do not find them attractive at all most of the time. Us men as a whole are also the reason for rape in their book seemingly. When in reality it's the select few of the sick bastards who happen to have penises. Pretty much, feminism can be compared to poor man that started out stealing food to be able to eat that gradually started making his way up to robbing banks and never getting in trouble because, after all, he is a "poor man".

The reason I say no to a mens rights group is because it already exist and frankly society does not care about mens rights. It's sad when you look up women's rights on Facebook and there's way more likes than there are for men's rights and human rights combined. We should really be looking into human rights. But the feminists have that taken care of right?

Societal Food Chain:
Female Children>Male Children>Women>Men
 
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#8
Gender movements, unless their exclusive purpose is to campaign for legal protection of specific rights, are superfluous. Ideologies are inherently destructive, so I don't choose to support one unless there is very good reason to do so.
 

Cognisant

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#9
Is feminism overrepresented in western culture today? Should we start a mens rights trend in the other direction?
To clarify are we talking about equality or gender identity?

I don't think anyone honestly opposes equality but there are differing views on male and female gender identities.
 

Ex-User (9062)

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#10
Is feminism overrepresented in western culture today? Should we start a mens rights trend in the other direction?
Yes.
There is already such a movement, i forgot how they call themselves, i think it's along the lines of "male pride" and it's just as ridiculous as its counterpart.
 
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#11
Yes and no.

Before when woman had far less right it was mandatory for feminist groups to appear for equality. Now it is just so out of hand, women get so much leverage in today's society it is seriously a joke. They claim to be for human rights, yet little to nothing actually includes both genders. Us men are out to be the enemy, we are the blame for skinny models, I personally think super skinny women are sick and quite honestly, models look so damn fake that I do not find them attractive at all most of the time. Us men as a whole are also the reason for rape in their book seemingly. When in reality it's the select few of the sick bastards who happen to have penises. Pretty much, feminism can be compared to poor man that started out stealing food to be able to eat that gradually started making his way up to robbing banks and never getting in trouble because, after all, he is a "poor man".

The reason I say no to a mens rights group is because it already exist and frankly society does not care about mens rights. It's sad when you look up women's rights on Facebook and there's way more likes than there are for men's rights and human rights combined. We should really be looking into human rights. But the feminists have that taken care of right?

Societal Food Chain:
Female Children>Male Children>Women>Men
Good post. Strange thing is people are a lot more human than they are male or female. Splitting a human being up into male and female is going to have artificial results. If I have an itch it may be desirable to scratch it, but do I want to devote my entire self to scratching? If a small section of society wants to take up the nature, impact and meaning of scratching let them be free to do so. But if I'm not interested, allow me the freedom to leave it alone.

There are a number of books devoted to the men's movement in past decades. I belonged to more than one men's movement group. In fact the telephone list on my computer shows eight different men's groups in which I was a member. As one group dissolved I joined another. Three of four members of my current Retirement Group are ex men's group members. How do you like that?
 
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#12
Who cares what people are its how they are treated based on what they are percieved to be that matters in this context.

Can you and/or spongetable please exemplify this bankstealing a bit? Right now all you are doing is talking about how you percieve feministic ideas to be stupid based upon your own subjective interpretation of them which isn't even right at all.

Good job whining at feminists for blaming rape on men collectively while at the same time talking about feminisms as if though it were constituted of moronic feminazis only. All this anger directed at a strawman... it's obvious feminism is needed.
 
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#13
Who cares what people are its how they are treated based on what they are percieved to be that matters in this context.

Can you and/or spongetable please exemplify this bankstealing a bit? Right now all you are doing is talking about how you percieve feministic ideas to be stupid based upon your own subjective interpretation of them which isn't even right at all.

Good job whining at feminists for blaming rape on men collectively while at the same time talking about feminisms as if though it were constituted of moronic feminazis only. All this anger directed at a strawman... it's obvious feminism is needed.
When extremes exist that are harmful, it becomes desirable to contain them. Evil men require a special effort by specialists to damp them down. What better choice than those who are harmed*? It requires a minimum strength to do so. It helps for the rest of society to take notice and aid them. At the same time there will be those among the specialists who are angry.

*women
 

Blarraun

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#14
it's obvious feminism is needed.
I disagree, or I understand feminism differently. I would say that what is important is the protection of human rights or rights of cogitating individuals while eradicating the possible biased and negative treatment based on discrimination that is:(belonging to asian descent, being a man or a woman, being poor, etc.)

If that's how feminism is realised I don't see it too often but I would agree with that kind of notion.
 
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regixie

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#15
to me people are the same regardless of gender, ethnicity, etc. sure, women were objectified and stripped of rights in the past but it's not like that anymore, at least in most places today. instead of fighting for a female president, become one yourself.. it's not like women can't run for presidency. i think sexism is like racism. it's kind of a natural tendency for differences of any kind to cause conflict or friction. kind of unavoidable in society. i'm not saying that it's okay or that everyone is sexist or racist. i think that formal action should take place only if sexism/racism causes injustice. otherwise promote equality through socially acceptable manners instead of being overly headstrong in a way that produces the opposite of the desired effect. feminism already has a sort of negative connotation.
 
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#16
to me people are the same regardless of gender, ethnicity, etc. sure, women were objectified and stripped of rights in the past but it's not like that anymore, at least in most places today. instead of fighting for a female president, become one yourself.. it's not like women can't run for presidency. i think sexism is like racism. it's kind of a natural tendency for differences of any kind to cause conflict or friction. kind of unavoidable in society. i'm not saying that it's okay or that everyone is sexist or racist. i think that formal action should take place only if sexism/racism causes injustice. otherwise promote equality through socially acceptable manners instead of being overly headstrong in a way that produces the opposite of the desired effect. feminism already has a sort of negative connotation.
People are the same and they are different. That is, we have things in common and things not in common. To make this more clear, there are men, women and children. Presumably it is wrong to outright kill any of these who are innocent and more positively, let all live and try to prosper. But there are inequalities. Society has decided not to give children the freedom adults have. Why is that? Is there is something different about children? Now apply that to men and women. Should women have to wait in longer lines than men at public bathrooms? Should that be fixed?
 

Reluctantly

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#17
I think it sucks when it makes women domineering. A lot of the natural qualities that women have are centered around being emotionally sensitive and more gentle about how they deal with other people. Someone once said that women will lie to make someone feel better about themselves, whereas men will lie to evade getting into trouble. All the men agreed and so did the women. I, of course, said nothing, seeing as I lie to make people feel better about themselves; another frustrating gender reminder, I suppose.

Is feminism overrepresented in western culture today?
I can see a problem with feminism now in that it allows women to have the same rights as men (which is good); so women are expected to do the same as men and at the same time be a wife and mother. Women have more responsibility, which puts a bad taste in their mouth and makes men look pretty bad. I think women want men to take on some of their roles in order to feel equal. But then again, it depends on the person; some women don't mind being a house wife and taking care of kids, with the right husband. I say, with the right husband because my mom liked taking care of us and was the one that wanted to have kids, but my father resented her for not working, despite turning her away from it, and then humiliated and controlled her with finances. Even worse, she wanted to take care of us and was willing to stay with him for our sake. It's really quite sad, but she did eventually get the divorce after realizing life is too short.

Should we start a mens rights trend in the other direction?
I think men would feel emasculated by needing such a thing to benefit from it to begin with, but maybe that's another issue.
 
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#18
yes.
there should be some equalizing movement, but women should accept that we are different, we have different tendencies and even strenght, overall. Thats a fact, so, every intent to do something regarding the subject should start bearing that in mind and trying to avoid that sense of "gender revenge" that some women have. Here's to you, feminist woman: you dont have to prove anything to anyone, period
 

regixie

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#19
People are the same and they are different. That is, we have things in common and things not in common. To make this more clear, there are men, women and children. Presumably it is wrong to outright kill any of these who are innocent and more positively, let all live and try to prosper. But there are inequalities. Society has decided not to give children the freedom adults have. Why is that? Is there is something different about children? Now apply that to men and women. Should women have to wait in longer lines than men at public bathrooms? Should that be fixed?
well there's an obvious difference in maturity level between adults and children. 21 is the legal age for drinking because it's scientifically tested to be the approximate age in which the average person becomes mature enough with alcohol. it's a biological matter. i don't know about the bathroom thing. men and women go for basically the same reasons.. i don't see anything that needs to be fixed?
 

Latte

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#20
yes.
there should be some equalizing movement, [no U]but women should accept that we are different, we have different tendencies and even strenght, overall.[/no U] Thats a fact, so, every intent to do something regarding the subject should start bearing that in mind and trying to avoid that sense of "gender revenge" that some women have. Here's to you, feminist woman: you dont have to prove anything to anyone, period
Does this refer to between genders or between individuals?


Addressed at topic:

At this stage, or maybe in a decade or so I think feminism needs to get absorbed into or morph into a conceptual or ideological framework that centers around concepts that make it capable dealing with what feminism attempts to deal with, but in a more general and inclusive manner that tackles things from a human perspective. Something like a pro-identity-individualistic anti-generalization movement that promotes a cultural and legal shift towards people being treated based on less overarching/strong/much-encompassing bemes (being+memes).

Currently, the plethora of subcultures and the everyperson being exposed to people behaving in ways there wouldn't be space for social-norm wise in most smaller communities or in the past is increasingly forcing/causing people to utilize ways of making sense of others that are less reliant on high order generalizations (because they are constantly bombarded with in-their-face data conflicting with their overgeneralizations). This will and is leading things in the direction of the emergence of such a movement or shift among the general populace, albeit with some painful anti-mainstream identity identity side effects in the birthpangs of a new mainstream cognitive paradigm of relating to others.

Nvm just kidding we're doomed.
 
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#21
^ I think if the average intelligence continue to raise, that can become reality one day.
 

Cognisant

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#22
Something like a pro-identity-individualistic anti-generalization movement that promotes a cultural and legal shift towards people being treated based on less overarching/strong/much-encompassing bemes (being+memes).
Humanism. Equalitarianism. Utilitarianism.
 
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#23
Is feminism overrepresented in western culture today? Should we start a mens rights trend in the other direction?
I like to look for general truths. An answer to that above is, how much do we want to keep the sexes/genders different? In a world where it didn't matter which sex we were attracted to, if any, none of this would matter. But that isn't reality. "Opposite" sexes are attracted to each other in statistically the ninety percent range. That means they have an interest in getting along and promoting that interest. Feminism seems to deal with women's issues; men's issues, ahem, deal with men's issues. That may or may not coincide with the opposite sexes getting along. After all much of life partakes in men with men and women with women. So there will be a natural conflict depending on how separate the sexes/genders are.
 

alysa

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#24
Us men are out to be the enemy, we are the blame for skinny models, I personally think super skinny women are sick and quite honestly, models look so damn fake that I do not find them attractive at all most of the time. Us men as a whole are also the reason for rape in their book seemingly. When in reality it's the select few of the sick bastards who happen to have penises.
Men take up more than 70% of the media positions. That means they control TV, Radio, Magazines, and every other form of media. Sure, not every man is to blame for the skinny models partaking in Fashion Week, but men in positions of power give a thumbs up because that is what the consumers seem to want. They eat it up and talk about it and generate revenue for it.

The reason men are seen as the reason for rape is because of all the people (men and women) who blame the victims for tempting men. "Were you wearing something revealing? Were you out late by yourself? Were you drunk? Were you watching your back?" These are questions that imply men are animals who can't control themselves.

Here is the definition of "Feminism" as I know it: Equal rights for men and women, regardless of color. It is a movement that rallies for the rights of men to be emotional creatures and for women to be able to achieve a higher career position (aka getting rid of the Glass Ceiling). Feminism is a movement that rallies for Hispanic and Black women to make a living wage because they make less than White women, who even then make less than Men in general. Feminism is for the victims of sexual and domestic abuse who get blamed for their suffering and can't escape, whether the victim is a man or a woman.

Feminism is also around so that women don't have to fight congressmen over the right to women's healthcare, such as birth control pills and safe abortions.

Just like in any group, there are bad apples. I noticed the term "feminazi" thrown into the debate and then someone complained about how men are blamed. Sure, some women get the wrong idea about the feminist movement, as do men. Some either take "equal rights" and translate it into "women are so so so much better than men" or "they are men-haters who think they are so so so much better than men."
 

Ink

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#26
To clarify are we talking about equality or gender identity?

I don't think anyone honestly opposes equality but there are differing views on male and female gender identities.
I don't know, feminism seem to represent a lot of different things for everyone, I got the idea to ask from this guy: http://manhood101.com/principles101.pdf)
 

Amagi82

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#27
No and no.

Feminism is extremely important in current society. There's a LOOOOOONG way to go to reaching social equality, and a lot of insidious bullshit that women have to put up with in our culture that they shouldn't. Body image programming, harmful portrayal in media, early childhood programming, inherently gendered language, etc, the list goes on and on, and needs to be addressed. Feminism isn't about hating men and wanting more stuff- if you think that, you're buying into some crazed right-wing bullshit. A lot of men are feminists. Like me. And Patrick Stewart. We have this crazy idea that maybe women and men should be treated equally.

For some further study, in an area where INTPs tend to have a lot of opinions, I'd suggest checking out Anita Sarkeesian of Feminist Frequency, who did a series on harmful elements of sexism in video games and is a brilliant and generally excellent human who has put up with a LOT of bullshit from the misogynist gaming community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q&list=PLn4ob_5_ttEaA_vc8F3fjzE62esf9yP61
 
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#28
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#30
WTF? im smiling, you're kinda fucked up hah

Does this refer to between genders or between individuals?


Addressed at topic:

At this stage, or maybe in a decade or so I think feminism needs to get absorbed into or morph into a conceptual or ideological framework that centers around concepts that make it capable dealing with what feminism attempts to deal with, but in a more general and inclusive manner that tackles things from a human perspective. Something like a pro-identity-individualistic anti-generalization movement that promotes a cultural and legal shift towards people being treated based on less overarching/strong/much-encompassing bemes (being+memes).

Currently, the plethora of subcultures and the everyperson being exposed to people behaving in ways there wouldn't be space for social-norm wise in most smaller communities or in the past is increasingly forcing/causing people to utilize ways of making sense of others that are less reliant on high order generalizations (because they are constantly bombarded with in-their-face data conflicting with their overgeneralizations). This will and is leading things in the direction of the emergence of such a movement or shift among the general populace, albeit with some painful anti-mainstream identity identity side effects in the birthpangs of a new mainstream cognitive paradigm of relating to others.

Nvm just kidding we're doomed.
 
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#32
No and no.

Feminism is extremely important in current society. There's a LOOOOOONG way to go to reaching social equality, and a lot of insidious bullshit that women have to put up with in our culture that they shouldn't. Body image programming, harmful portrayal in media, early childhood programming, inherently gendered language, etc, the list goes on and on, and needs to be addressed. Feminism isn't about hating men and wanting more stuff- if you think that, you're buying into some crazed right-wing bullshit. A lot of men are feminists. Like me. And Patrick Stewart. We have this crazy idea that maybe women and men should be treated equally.

For some further study, in an area where INTPs tend to have a lot of opinions, I'd suggest checking out Anita Sarkeesian of Feminist Frequency, who did a series on harmful elements of sexism in video games and is a brilliant and generally excellent human who has put up with a LOT of bullshit from the misogynist gaming community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q&list=PLn4ob_5_ttEaA_vc8F3fjzE62esf9yP61
That’s one opinion. Unfortunately, I’d much rather base my opinion on the feminism movement in reality rather than what’s going on in video games XD. And, unfortunately in reality you have to consider fun little facts like in child custody cases 5/6 of the time the mother is the one awarded child support(http://dalrock.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/custody_breakdown_sex1.png) and by extension at least majority custody of the child. If we were equal are mothers better parents that much more often:rolleyes:? And the media bias is a lot of hokey bull. Men are just as objectified as women. There is just as much pressure for men to be muscular and manly as there is for women to be skinny. The reality is that is what is found as attractive and sex sells. Another inconvenient reality is that women are actually the protagonist in many games(Final Fantasy 13, Lara Croft, Resident Evil) which are just as fun and with characters just as strong as male protagonist. Also the $0.77 to a dollar thing often cited doesn’t take into account things like hours worked, days missed etc. And it stands to reason that the same ones who are working more hours, and missing less days are more likely to be promoted which accounts for the majority male CEO thing as well.

Now I don’t want there to be some dramatic power shift. All I’m saying is that there are gender differences and we as I society need to recognize and celebrate those rather than demonizing the other gender over those:D.
 

Latte

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#33
All I’m saying is that there are gender differences and we as I society need to recognize and celebrate those rather than demonizing the other gender over those:D.
Well... no. We need to view the differences through the lense of individuals being different. The aspects that apply to the individual that are more pronounced in the female or male demographic preferably being mentally represented as aspects of the individual rather than gender attributes the [insert gender] has. Not doing so creates a lot of shitty preconceptions, pressures and negatively impacting culture conformity.

Seeing an individual first, and to delegate being a part of a demographic group whose statistical majority are such or such to a much lesser role in person-assessment than it has today.

Or, actually, it would be funny to have a Kenyans are awesome runners day. Or wow Chinese people you're so good at math mate and we appreciate that day. Americans of african heritage you rock at arithmetic parts of intelligence assessments compared to americans of european heritage and we think that brings a lot to our community weekend.

In the perceptual aspect of things - which is the precursor to all manifestations in society - is where both the concepts of 'all are equal' and 'these groups are different but that's a good thing' are insufficient to thoroughly uproot the culturally imprinted cognitive causes of overgeneralization, the overuse of generalization in regarding an individual, and the behaviors that follow.
 

Goku

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#34
Is feminism overrepresented in western culture today? Should we start a mens rights trend in the other direction?
"Definition of 'Functional Obsolescence'

A reduction in the usefulness or desirability of an object because of an outdated design feature, usually one that cannot be easily changed. The term is commonly used in real estate, but has a wide application.

An original house in an older part of town that has two bedrooms and one bathroom could be considered functionally obsolete if all the other original homes in the area are torn down over the years and replaced with five bedroom, three bathroom houses. Because the old house does not have the features that most modern buyers want, it is said to be functionally obsolete, even if it is still in good condition and is perfectly livable."
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/functional-obsolescence.asp

Feminism in America is functionally obsolete. Sure there can still be minor gains made in certain areas. But for the most part, women can vote and own property and run for president. What more can we achieve?

So, we have a functionally obsolete movement and organization and entity-- feminism, which tries dearly to cling to a cause, often grasping for straws and over-dramatizing perceived slights to reinforce its own fading relevance.

It was useful and desirable once, as a two-bedroom one bathroom home might have been. But those things have been torn down to make way for the new.

Feminism is a vestige of our past, making a very endearing attempt to survive.
 
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#35
Feminism in America is functionally obsolete. Sure there can still be minor gains made in certain areas. But for the most part, women can vote and own property and run for president. What more can we achieve?
There's no point to discuss this with someone ignorant enough to write what I quoted. Either Goku is a genuine misogynist or he's speaking from ignorance. Regardless it's so off the mark that there's no point to even attempt discussing the topic.

Seems to be a common issue on many forums, young men angry who see little to no oppression of women but are quite able to spot oppression or something like it when it comes from feminists. This skewed perspective in itself proves that feminism is needed.
 

Goku

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#36
There's no point to discuss this with someone ignorant enough to write what I quoted. Either Goku is a genuine misogynist or he's speaking from ignorance. Regardless it's so off the mark that there's no point to even attempt discussing the topic.

Seems to be a common issue on many forums, young angry who see little to no oppression of women but are quite able to spot oppression or something like it when it comes from feminists. This skewed perspective in itself proves that feminism is needed.
example?

I'll give you an example of "over-dramatizing perceived slights"

You're trying to find something that doesn't exist. I know a lot of normal females who hold none of the intense polarized views that you do. My view is very neutral. If you're butt-hurt about not getting equal pay, like say 10% difference? I conceded that there are gains to be made, but it's not a very large discrepancy to suggest that women are being "oppressed." There might be a slight bias for men in America, but feminists also fail to acknowledge that females also possess advantages in so many ways. Good looks will get a woman far in this life, in America. And this counterpoint doesn't seem to even out all the things that oppress the women? How bout a female supermodel being able to earn millions of dollars? A good looking woman gets hired anywhere. I know these seem like kind of crass examples. But they are just examples nonetheless, ones which I could also overdramatize and complain about how women have all the advantages and that things should be a little more fair. What if I complained that my perfect body gets me, a male, nowhere in life? Whereas, a female with a perfect body would have many more opportunities to make money, just due to her attractiveness.

I promise you, the world is not half as bad as you think when you stop translating things wearing your victim lens.
 

Duxwing

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#37
There's no point to discuss this with someone ignorant enough to write what I quoted. Either Goku is a genuine misogynist or he's speaking from ignorance. Regardless it's so off the mark that there's no point to even attempt discussing the topic.

Seems to be a common issue on many forums, young angry who see little to no oppression of women but are quite able to spot oppression or something like it when it comes from feminists. This skewed perspective in itself proves that feminism is needed.
Women's condition has greatly improved since the days whereof Goku speaks, perhaps assuming that only large-scale oppression is worth an entire movement.

-Duxwing
 

Goku

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#38
There's no point to discuss this with someone ignorant enough to write what I quoted. Either Goku is a genuine misogynist or he's speaking from ignorance. Regardless it's so off the mark that there's no point to even attempt discussing the topic.

Seems to be a common issue on many forums, young angry who see little to no oppression of women but are quite able to spot oppression or something like it when it comes from feminists. This skewed perspective in itself proves that feminism is needed.

I should also say that I ain't letting this bitch get away with calling me an "ignorant misogynist," bitch. :storks:

just tit for tat insulting, so that now we are even, by the way. I am highlighting the area where I felt insulted, so that you do not see this post as an attack, but moreso a defense against this type of insulting behavior.
 
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#39
There's no point to discuss this with someone ignorant enough to write what I quoted. Either Goku is a genuine misogynist or he's speaking from ignorance. Regardless it's so off the mark that there's no point to even attempt discussing the topic.

Seems to be a common issue on many forums, young angry who see little to no oppression of women but are quite able to spot oppression or something like it when it comes from feminists. This skewed perspective in itself proves that feminism is needed.
No. All it does is highlights the fact that there's a problem on both sides. Building up gender rights wont help as it'll just cause all sorts of different conflicts and problems as it is doing. These gender barriers should be broken down and there should be peoples' rights, rather then gender specific rights. That way everybody will be on equal footing and understanding.
Until then it's all futile.
 

Adaire

Hurdurr da aDministruturr.
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#41
I find it amusing that men are much more qualified to determine if women are being persecuted than women. The opinions of women are obviously wrong, they only have a lifetime of experience to draw from.


Goku
Cherry cola was much more charitable than you deserve. You're an insufferable prick.


Cherry cola
The forum has long been a haven of the coddled and self absorbed. Their ability to perceive things that happen to other people rivals that of an infant. Cut down one of these clots and three more take its place. You are correct in your assessment of futility. Their worldview serves them. They have no firsthand experience and they can't imagine or understand the issues, so the issues must of be a product of a bunch of delusional, selfish women.

Fortunately they usually shut up about it or move on after a semi-short period, but sometimes they persist for an annoyingly long time by propping each other up. There are a LOT of them, but they are good for target practice.

:cool:
 

Goku

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#43
I find it amusing that men are much more qualified to determine if women are being persecuted than women. The opinions of women are obviously wrong, they only have a lifetime of experience to draw from.


Goku
Cherry cola was much more charitable than you deserve. You're an insufferable prick.


Cherry cola
The forum has long been a haven of the coddled and self absorbed. Their ability to perceive things that happen to other people rivals that of an infant. Cut down one of these clots and three more take its place. You are correct in your assessment of futility. Their worldview serves them. They have no firsthand experience and they can't imagine or understand the issues, so the issues must of be a product of a bunch of delusional, selfish women.

Fortunately they usually shut up about it or move on after a semi-short period, but sometimes they persist for an annoyingly long time by propping each other up. There are a LOT of them, but they are good for target practice.

:cool:
Okay, how are you being persecuted, Adaire? Because with all this screaming about "persecution" and "oppression," I still have not seen one example which we can examine. Just a bunch of generalization and witch hunting.

You also, exhibit the bitch attitude, by the way (but I'm sure you get that a lot so you probably know already).
 

Ex-User (9062)

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#44
Okay, how are you being persecuted, Adaire? Because with all this screaming about "persecution" and "oppression," I still have not seen one example which we can examine. Just a bunch of generalization and witch hunting.

You also, exhibit the bitch attitude, by the way (but I'm sure you get that a lot so you probably know already).
Well, how about custody law which in the main frame of events is against the male?
 

Goku

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#45
Men take up more than 70% of the media positions. That means they control TV, Radio, Magazines, and every other form of media. Sure, not every man is to blame for the skinny models partaking in Fashion Week, but men in positions of power give a thumbs up because that is what the consumers seem to want. They eat it up and talk about it and generate revenue for it.

The reason men are seen as the reason for rape is because of all the people (men and women) who blame the victims for tempting men. "Were you wearing something revealing? Were you out late by yourself? Were you drunk? Were you watching your back?" These are questions that imply men are animals who can't control themselves.

Here is the definition of "Feminism" as I know it: Equal rights for men and women, regardless of color. It is a movement that rallies for the rights of men to be emotional creatures and for women to be able to achieve a higher career position (aka getting rid of the Glass Ceiling). Feminism is a movement that rallies for Hispanic and Black women to make a living wage because they make less than White women, who even then make less than Men in general. Feminism is for the victims of sexual and domestic abuse who get blamed for their suffering and can't escape, whether the victim is a man or a woman.

Feminism is also around so that women don't have to fight congressmen over the right to women's healthcare, such as birth control pills and safe abortions.

Just like in any group, there are bad apples. I noticed the term "feminazi" thrown into the debate and then someone complained about how men are blamed. Sure, some women get the wrong idea about the feminist movement, as do men. Some either take "equal rights" and translate it into "women are so so so much better than men" or "they are men-haters who think they are so so so much better than men."
I agree with your position on the causes you mentioned, however, I don't believe that it is a good idea to batch them together, then creating a movement and identity out of it. It seems easy, because all the "victims" in your causes are females, but I'll tell you why this is not a good idea.

See, because I expressed my negative opinion against feminism, overall, some might assume that I then also oppose the ideas and viewpoints of feminists. This isn't the case at all. I am very much pro birth control. It has nothing to do with being female or male. It's that, on that issue, I agree with the right to one to control her (or his) body over the life of an unborn fetus. And for other reasons that I don't need to derail with... But, I'm not voting in favor of birth control and abortion JUST BECAUSE I support women's rights or that I am a feminist. It is because I evaluated that issue on its own merits and decided that way.

When you find a common bond, in this case, all the victims have vaginas, it is easy to gain a lot of members.

But this reminds me too much of Democrats and Republicans.

I don't have a solution for you. I also don't like the institution of churches but then I have also decided in retrospect that they are overall good (for now) for our current society.

I am poised to ask myself, who then will take up the causes you mentioned, birth control, low wages, if not the feminists? Well, in this case, then I can say it is a good thing, overall, feminism, because there is no one else fighting for certain causes.

Yet, regarding this matter, it is still much better to rally for the specific injustice, rather than group/batch them all together, as I mentioned earlier.

By the creation of the term "feminism" it already paints the female as a victim from the get-go.

On the same token I would not agree with any maleism clubs either. If I did, the recruitment letter would look something like this:

"Attention MEN! We gather here today to remind ourselves of how we are being victimized in society. We shall make a list of all injustices done towards those of us who possess a penis, and attack them one by one, until we gain equality overall. The first item of business shall be that of female strippers making wages ten times that of male strippers, which is preposterous in the 21st century. Men should not be devalued to this degree. Is a man only worth one tenth of a woman? Of course not. It also should not be that only women get maternity leave. You know, the man had a baby too, didn't he!? What if he too wants to spend time at home. The mental anxiety of having a baby, for a man, can sometimes outweigh that of the physical pain that women must endure. This is never acknowledged. The second item of business will be fraternity leave, equal to that of maternity leave. Join us for our weekly meetings at Tuesday, 7:30pm, at the ShaDynasty's Gentlemen's Club to discuss matters like these and more."
 

Goku

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#48
Well, custody law decisions favour the female.
Maybe that is because kids, in general, are better off with the mom, if there must be a choice to be made. It is not like a man can breast feed a child.

Or are you trying to poise a counterpoint to feminism, by insinuating the feminists, to be consistent, must also vie for equal rights for men?

I am perfectly fine, personally, with custody laws favoring females, because I think there needs to be a strong case made that a kid would be better with dad than mom.

But in actuality, I am more in favor of giving rights to the individual concerned, in this case the kid, and letting the kid decide. Yea, I can take that liberal of a stance because I'm that unconvinced that the two warring parties will actually take into the account of the best interests of the kid, as most people are making selfish decisions.

I'm going to be honest and say that if I were a judge, by default, I would be siding with the woman, and the burden of proof lies on the father;

It's kind of like how the NFL is geared towards favoring the receiver, regarding how defenders have to defend them. And how in instant replay, they always side with the call on the field if the evidence doesn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
 

Ex-User (9062)

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#49
Maybe that is because kids, in general, are better off with the mom, if there must be a choice to be made. It is not like a man can breast feed a child.
That may very well be true. But when it comes to decisions being made beyond this critical age, the judicial system favours the mother nontheless.

I would like to make the case of gender discrimination.
 

Goku

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#50
That may very well be true. But when it comes to decisions being made beyond this critical age, the judicial system favours the mother nontheless.

I would like to make the case of gender discrimination.
I hold some biases, of course, and I don't know if I can justify all of them; however, I am also only attracted to females, and this is something that just is.

For example, drop 10 women and 10 men and an island... wait there's been a show like that recently, Lost... lol. What will be the natural order of things? Men will go hunt and do the dangerous and physically demanding things. Women will tend to the upkeep of the living quarters and raising of the children while men are out doing the dangerous things.

I think this type of thinking is innate within us? Or maybe I fail to realize that I have been brainwashed by mainstream culture? I don't know.

All our rules and laws come from a logical place.

See I'd prefer that I earn more money than my girlfriend because I feel like that is what I bring to the table. Resources. If she makes more resources than me, that inspires a feeling of insecurity, like, "what does she need me for?" Can feminists not understand this? I don't personally have any bias equal pay for men and women. But, I do tend to hold this feeling that it's MY JOB to bring home the bacon and make life comfortable for us. In exchange, she's going to have sex with me and nobody else. I think that's a fair trade off.

(but I also recognize that these are still largely insecurities that I can get rid of...)
 
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