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What do you base your values on

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#1
What do you base your values on? Your ideals? Do you you think there is something that should be?
What should people strive for? Is "shouldism" something to strive for?
What are your values based on and why? Is there any reason other people should adopt your perspective?
 

onesteptwostep

Think.. Be... ..buzz buzz :)
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#2
My values are based on giving without any expectation of returns, because God gives, and God takes away :]

On the "should" though, I think to do that you have to 'meta' yourself and think incredibly more broadly, but in doing so you waste time doing what one really needs to be doing.
 

Animekitty

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#3
The base of my values is me since I need to exist to evaluate things to begin with. (pretty much deterministic)
 

Lagomorph

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#4
My values and ideals are based on a sense of unity with others, and I think people should strive for authenticity. I don't think anyone has a choice in adopting the strive for authenticity, the issue is just whether they have the metacognition to recognize it so they can pursue it purposefully.

When I "should," it's usually applied to others based on their position and responsibilities, which is also an authenticity thing. I consider "shoulds" to be Fi value structures and the pathway of splitting, and because Fi is in their 8th slot, I'd expect "shouldism" to be something Ti-doms want to avoid, as it threatens the most vulnerable part of their psyche, possibly triggering never-ending thought loops that contribute to suicidal ideation if they can't escape it.
 
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#5
My values are based on radical selflessness and an ever increasing will to do what's best for the well-being of any individual who shows a combination of compassion, interest and general good will towards those around them. Making a positive imprint in human society as I do what I see necessary to work towards the seemingly unobtainable goal of peace on this pale blue dot is what I obsessively strive for.




Actually, not really. Who am I fooling. I have no real values and if I did they'd be based on silly shit.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#6
because Fi is in their 8th slot, I'd expect "shouldism" to be something Ti-doms want to avoid
As I see it, one should be comfortable with all 8 of their functions.

--

I base my values on innate sense, on logic, and on teaching that speaks to me.

People should strive to know the truth, and to act in line with that truth.
 

Lagomorph

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#7
As I see it, one should be comfortable with all 8 of their functions.
That can only occur if they pursue the required metacognition. If it's forced on them (INTPs), it tends to produce major depression, addiction, a weird kind of dismissive-avoidant narcissism, and other self-destructive behaviors. Less certain on the manifestations in ISTPs.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#8
As I see it, one should be comfortable with all 8 of their functions.
That can only occur if they pursue the required metacognition. If it's forced on them (INTPs), it tends to produce major depression, addiction, a weird kind of dismissive-avoidant narcissism, and other self-destructive behaviors. Less certain on the manifestations in ISTPs.
Like forcing an INFJ to adapt to traditional societal structures?
 

Lagomorph

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#9
Like an INFJ subjected to intrusive ESTJ-style micromanaging of things like homeowner's association rules. If I had someone constantly dictating everything from how I dressed to how I cut my grass based on their own personal whims because said whims happen to fall in line with some perceived tradition or other authoritarian rationale, with no escape, I would legitimately consider -icide.
 

Cognisant

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#10
Fundamentally I base my values on consistency which I see as the basis of the scientific method, when you perform an experiment it tells you a certain thing behaves a certain way when acted upon a certain way at a certain time. But next time the results may be different so you need to repeat the experiment several times (ideally many times) to verify the consistency of the results, the more consistent the results the more trustworthy they are.

Likewise you may have a hypothesis based on the results from several experiments and another hypothesis based on the results from several other experiments and these two hypotheses may contradict each other, that contradiction is an inconsistency that tells me I'm wrong about something. So in my mind everything I believe I know I expect to be consistent with everything else I believe I know and when it's not I investigate because I don't like being wrong about things.

Now I used to think I should apply this principle of consistency to myself, that my mind should be as consistent with the nature of reality as possible, that I should be an absolute realist. Then I discovered reality is nihilistic, that I wouldn't be wrong to just lay down and die, indeed from a purely rational perspective that makes perfect sense, all I do is for naught and I'm eventually going to die anyway so why not just get it over with?

But I'm not happy with that and the reason I'm not happy with it is that as a human being I am fundamentally insane, despite knowing how utterly futile and meaningless life is I still have an ego and that ego is offended. Hilarious isn't it, thinking meat, and this particular bit of thinking meat is offended that it's merely a piece of thinking meat, positively furious with indignation.
 

Hadoblado

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#11
I feel like I've put a lifetime's worth of thought into this but when I try to answer the question I can't think of anything.
You+do+know+some+places+can+t+get+faster+internet+right+_773c6da37639bd7553d3bba0f1f6d961.jpg
 

Polaris

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#12
It's wishy-washy, and I have never really been able to set down a fixed set of values that I trust for any length of time. The only thing that seems fairly consistent is that I try to live in a way that doesn't impact anyone/anything too negatively. I focus on self-improvement. People won't change unless they have internal locus to do so.
 
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#13
Took me awhile to think about this. Way too many situations get bottlenecked into the limits of a few words. But after some thought, they all seem to be unified by the foundation of relationships. Relationship between self, ideas, life, people, and meta-relationships. A striving for sustainability and homeostasis.
 

Reluctantly

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#14
What do you base your values on? Your ideals?
Instinct

Do you you think there is something that should be?
Universally, no. Situationally or goal-orientedly, yes. (yes I made up that word)

What should people strive for? Is "shouldism" something to strive for?
What are your values based on and why? Is there any reason other people should adopt your perspective?
Their own decisions.

No.

Instinct because it rarely steers me wrong and even when it does, it's like feeding a biological or spiritual need. Because if we're just algorithms, going against that is like trying to destroy your own core code. It'll only end in delusion and inability to function.

I don't care if they do.
 
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#16
I suspect shouldism in people is what changes values on a larger scale. People working with informing, protests etc because they think tings should be different, tend to have more impact on changing the world according to their values, than those who think everyone shouldn't have to shouldism. I guess that's still a form of a shouldism.

For those who reject shouldism, what if you live in a society (because we do live in a society) where you or someone you cares about suffer? Heck, imagine one of the countries in the world where you'd never want to live. What if you had to live there, do you still think neither you nor anybody else should strive to change other peoples ideas, values as to effect how the society function? Why are he values of rejecting shouldism superior to your own or others suffering?

Anyway, I base my values to some degree on empathy and my personal perspective on what I find reasonable or what makes sense. Which are results of the things I've thought and thunk, and my personal experiences and information gathered throughout my life. Stuff like that.

I don't think there are any "true morals" (outside human values), but I do think we can choose what morals we want and which we think makes sense, and enforce them in a society* and live by that. Expanding as we gain new knowledge and insight. It being a creation of man kind doesn't mean we shouldn't value it or want it. I guess I'm saying I don't see a problem with living by rules we agree upon, even if the only ones who value and enforce them are ourselves. A combination of practicality, empathy and rationality. Obviously we all have some wishes, preferences, even feelings (!), I don't see why we can't live according to how we function in that regard. Even if using "feelings" sounds so dirty, is there really any good reason why empathy/ feelings can't be part of forming our values? Not to a extreme degree, obviously, but nevertheless empathy tends to be part of why we think and behave the way we do. Even in cases where we could cheat a good friend without being caught, a majority still wouldn't do so. Because we have other values than just acting in self interest

*tfw I cn't use the word society without feeling memed on by latte
 

The Grey Man

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#17
For those who reject shouldism what if you live in a society (because we do live in a society) where you or someone you cares about suffer? Heck, imagine one of the countries in the world where you'd never want to live. What if you had to live there, do you still think neither you nor anybody else should strive to change other peoples ideas, values as to effect how the society function? Why are he values of rejecting shouldism superior to your own or others suffering?
If I believed rejecting shouldism to be superior to shouldism, I could on no account be said to have rejected shouldism, since shouldism is the belief in the superiority of one action/value (effect/cause) to another. A shouldist may believe his values to be superior to those of a non-shouldist, but the reverse cannot be.

If I had to live in one of those countries, I might strive to change other people's ideas due to my values. You may say that I "should", though this is a fiction. The preceding sentence captures the essence of non-shouldism.

I don't think there are any "true morals" (outside human values), but I do think we can choose what morals we want and which we think makes sense, and enforce them in a society and live by that.
Schopenhauer said:
Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills.
To adapt this to your terminology, we might say that Man can choose what morals he wants, but he cannot choose how he chooses. Free will, like the should, is a fiction. Final causes are a fiction. Human morals, real morals, aren't right or wrong, good or bad. They simply are, and one either has them or they don't. They may be expedients to humanity's survival or its doom, make us more or less miserable, but they are. We act because we have values and we have values because we act. Unless I've wildly miscalculated.

Obviously we all have some wishes, preferances, even feelings (!), I don't see why we can't live according to how we function in that regard. Even if using "feelings" sounds so dirty, is there really any good reason why empathy/ feelings can't be part of forming our values? Not to a extreme degree, obviously, but nevertheless empathy tends to be part of why we think and behave the way we do.
I don't see how the part that feelings plays in forming our values good be any more extreme. As far as I can tell, there's no difference between feelings and values whatever. The latter are just the former considered insofar as they cause actions. The only people who think that feelings need not play a role in forming values, or need only play a supportive or ancillary role, are those who, like that bungler Sam Harris, think that values can be demonstrated, written down, and assimilated by reading books like mathematical theorems, which is about as likely as squeezing blood from a stone.
 
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#18
There are many things I don't like. For example, a bunch of people congregating in a parking lot pretending to be apes(true story), or sharing misinformation, etc. But because I'm somewhat of a libertarian, I'm glad that people have the freedom to do whatever based on reasonable limitations. I'd hate a governance enforcing strict behavior based on an individual's idealistic principles. Yet I'm all for well-discussed and reasonable restrictions, knowing that these are not easy to clearly define, and can take some time to test out. As long as shouldisms don't needlessly take away freedoms.

People should be able to pretend they are apes if they want to!! (Although I have no idea why they'd want to.)
 

Serac

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#20
I only believe there are things that shouldn't be. In particular anything that infringes on my freedoms. Hence, a proactive state bureaucrat is the worst thing I can imagine. He should be doing something useful, like putting shoelaces into shoelace holes in a factory somewhere - instead of messing with my shit
 
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#21
i would guess my values are based on whatever the current cultural norm is.
albeit i find myself in opposition to cultural norms more often than not.
hmmm
 
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