Vegetarian?

[flow]

Anyone here vegetarian? I've been mulling over the idea for a few years now, and I'm slowly working towards actively avoiding the consumption of meat. I really enjoy eating cows, I can't deny it (cheeseburgers are delicious), but after seeing semi's haul around pigs and seeing all of their snouts sticking out the side, I was overcome with empathy. These animals are essentially as intelligent as dogs, yet they're entirely disrespected and abused by our society. I might just stop eating mammals, and continue to consume birds and fish.. could be tough though.

 

[Claverhouse]

Yes, since I was five and discovered that animals are killed for meat. Much later I became a vegan, although this is not an inevitable progression as many vegans over-righteously protest.

It has it's disadvantages and it's benefits; but whereas humans killing each other merely elicits bored disgust, I know I could never watch the workings in a slaughterhouse.


Claverhouse

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Meat is... a traditional part of our nutrition. And not just traditional, that has cultural implications, but like- we've been eating meat for thousands or millions of years.

Then again, mac and cheese has NO part in the ancestral human diet, but I lurve it anyway. And carbohydrates as food (bread, pasta, rice) is a pretty recent development in human history that has really allowed us to pack a lot more calories in- it pretty much allowed us to develop cities.

Another problem is that there's a 90% loss in substance when energy goes from one "tier" to another. So it takes 10kg of plant stuff to make 1kg of cow. That's pretty inefficient. And from an efficiency and "feed the world" aspect, we should cut back on meat.

But it's delicious, and we're programmed to think it's delicious. And it's a great source of protein.

I like the idea of taking mammals off the list though. However... the only reason these pigs live is because we're going to eat them. Otherwise they'd be pushed aside to zoos. And really- all life is cruel and tough.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

Vegetarian sounds nice but I don't think I could do it. I could be a vagatarian I would definitely have to be among lots of vegetarians to pull it off. Its much too hard to do on my own, diets can be so complicated. So many extra vitamins to worry about. I barely eat well enough as it is. I also have to eat gluten-free, combined with a vegetarian diet I would pretty much have to make everything I eat from scratch or pay double or triple prices on things. Very annoying and hard to do by yourself especially for a lazy person like me. I like cooking but its nice to be able to eat ready made stuff and not spend 30min-2hours making food per day. I believe meat is/was an evolutionary catalyst. If I had the choice I would only eat meat that was hunted and not processed by the industry, much healthier and if you believe in that sort of thing more spiritual energy the fresher an organic food is. Live foods give the most spirit energy. I would only eat live fruits or veggies though, live meat doesn't sound too appealing to me. Freshly killed meat is best though. Venison and moose are good stuff, haven't had any other game type meat. Perhaps I can do these things when I become older, wiser and hopefully richer(with money or at least the means to do some of these things) I have reduced the amount of meats I eat at least. Red meats I only eat 0-3 times/month and probably 3-8 times/month for pork. I mostly like turkey,chicken,eggs, and fish. Gotta watch out for mercury in fish though. I suppose everything is contaminated in some way from pollution and other junk. We're probably all screwed either way. I at least try to balance things out and mix it up a bit

 

[Firehazard159]

I voted yes, but I'm not sure if I should have or not.

My philosophy isn't to be entirely without meat, but to reduce consumption. As in, 90% of my diet (or more, never less) is vegetarian. I actually don't like eating meat though, I just am too lazy to monitor my diet to make sure I get all the proper nutrients.

I could never go vegan. <3 cheese.

Edit: Also, totally worth going vegetarian, or at least some form of it, similar to my own current diet, has been quite beneficial.

 

[Cogwulf]

I don't want to be a full vegetarian, but when I have the choice I nearly always choose chicken or fish and sometimes pork rather than beef, mostly just for environmental/economic reasons

 

[kantor1003]

I find it cute how some people turn vegans to save the harsh reality of the animals we are eating, or other global, save the world, reasons. If you like meat, eat it. Humans will continue eating meat regardless if you do or don't. I can't see the whole human race turn vegetarian in the nearest future...or at all. Just continue eating.
We should strive to make the slaughtering process better for the animals. Being one of a tiny % turning vegetarian will do nothing...other then maybe make you feel good about yourself...like you are contributing to a better world...which you don't.
If you are a vegetarian because you don't like meat, than it's all good

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Prolonged absence of proper meat has weird effects on me, I literally begin to obsess about it, I suspect growing up in Australia where practically everything has some form of meat in it has affected my metabolism or psychology, perhaps both.

A vegetarian’s first assumption would be that I'm addicted to the taste of meat, or rather to the fat in it, but I dislike fatty meats, fast-food patties are barely edible and pork is just sickening (don’t even start me on chicken, that’s disgusting), if I'm addicted to anything it's the chewing, I'm more than happy to chew away at tough mutton or overcooked beef, it’s essential to my enjoyment.

If someone could direct me to something other than calamari (which is meat anyway) that can be chewed like tough meat, then I may have a chance at trying a vegetarian lifestyle, otherwise I simply could not do it.

Btw does anyone else enjoy the smell of a well run butchery? (where you can only smell fresh meat, usually it's the smoked stuff or other stuff being cut-up or minced),
I digress, it's morbid and not a smell one associates directly with food, but it is still pleasant in it's own interesting sort of way.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

I just finished watching Earthlings documentary, and it completely horrified me. A cow that was being slaughtered was turned over, and had it's trachea and esophagus torn out. It was then thrown onto the floor to suffocate in it's own blood. There was also footage of dolphins having their throats cuts and left an on incline so their blood drained towards the sea. Then a child walked by the scene as if nothing was wrong. *sigh* This makes my avatar seem even more appropriate. I encourage everyone to watch, but it's very graphic. Expect to be absolutely disgusted with humans afterward.

http://www.earthlings.com/earthlings/video-full.php

 

[Claverhouse]

I find it cute how some people turn vegans to save the harsh reality of the animals we are eating, or other global, save the world, reasons. If you like meat, eat it. Humans will continue eating meat regardless if you do or don't.

Humans will continue to engage in mass shootings of helpless captives, regardless of whether one joins in or not: that is no reason why I should agree to pull the trigger also.

I can't see the whole human race turn vegetarian in the nearest future...or at all. Just continue eating.

I could give a flying fuck what the human race does. What matters is the keeping of my integrity.

We should strive to make the slaughtering process better for the animals

The camps were better places after Stalin's death than in Lenin's time. They were still camps.

Being one of a tiny % turning vegetarian will do nothing...other then maybe make you feel good about yourself...like you are contributing to a better world...which you don't.

No-one voluntarily does anything that is not for their own self-image.

If you are a vegetarian because you don't like meat, than it's all good

The converse is that if you are a cannibal because you like the taste of Long Pig, then that's good also.



Claverhouse

 

[merzbau]

Yes, since I was five and discovered that animals are killed for meat. Much later I became a vegan, although this is not an inevitable progression as many vegans over-righteously protest.

just wondering.. would you take animal-derived vaccine?

 

[kantor1003]

Humans will continue to engage in mass shootings of helpless captives, regardless of whether one joins in or not: that is no reason why I should agree to pull the trigger also.

Mass shootings to feed the masses. Isn't any less moral than a single hunter killing one single deer to feed his family. The immorality lays in the way the animals are being treated, not the killing itself.

I could give a flying fuck what the human race does. What matters is the keeping of my integrity.

I don't see why someone that eats meat breaks any kind of moral code. Not any more than you when you are drinking tea/coffee, considering how horrible the working conditions are in those industries. Buying the final product is not the same as supporting the corruptive business itself... If the only way to get the product is through a corrupt industry, the fault lays in the industry, not you...especially when such a basic, widely bought product as meat is considered.
Since people are going to eat meat anyways, stopping to eat meat is not the answer. Having the best possible conditions for the animals being killed should be the goal.

The camps were better places after Stalin's death than in Lenin's time. They were still camps.

I see, so you are against any animal killings at all? I really don't bother being against the unchangeable. Also, I don't see the problem with killing animals if done in a suiting way. Killing to eat is a natural process.

 

[nemo]

I'm 100% vegetarian. I don't eat any meat or any seafood. I don't think I could go vegan though, 'cause I love dairy too much. As to why I'm a vegetarian?

(Skip over this to ignore rant)
I've always loved animals; I made the resolution in Grade 3 to become a vegetarian, but it wasn't carried out til Year 7. The one deciding factor was probably having all my hens killed by a fox. For a while, I felt confused, and thought about animals and their nature a lot. I finally saw that while foxes kill hens to feed themselves and their young, humans can survive without meat. Many have, and hopefully many will. So I made the choice in the end and carried out with it. It's not really hard, except for the lack of (good) vegetarian food in a lot of places, and the constant pressuring of my relatives to "EAT MEAT! IT'S GOOD FOR YOU!".

Although the location of where you live and the culture there does have an impact on how common vegetarians are, I don't think living in Australia would make you less likely to be a vegetarian, even though it is as you say Cognisant - almost all Aussie foods have some kind of meat in them. (Also, there's that guy, Sam Kekovich, that tells you if you don't eat meat, you're not Australian.)

That's about all from me... *flies off to sleep*

 

[INTPINFP]

The point is, vegetarianism is completely sustainable. I have been a vegetarian for a year and haven't died yet. Humans are omnivores, not carnivores.

 

[Cogwulf]

The point is, vegetarianism is completely sustainable. I have been a vegetarian for a year and haven't died yet. Humans are omnivores, not carnivores.

We aren't herbivores either, it's only thanks to modern technology and agriculture that a fully vegan diet is possible.

I don't believe in giving up meat completely, and certainly not in giving up dairy products, but I do think we should eat a lot less meat than we do. And anyway, the average person in the industrialised world eats several times as much meat as is needed for a healthy diet anyway

 

[INTPINFP]

Also, much of the meat spoils and never gets consumed.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

The one deciding factor was probably having all my hens killed by a fox. For a while, I felt confused, and thought about animals and their nature a lot. I finally saw that while foxes kill hens to feed themselves and their young, humans can survive without meat.

A somewhat off-beat idea just occurred to me, what if one's willingness to eat meat is influenced by the animals one associates with whilst growing up; basically if a child grew up around carnivores animals (like large dogs for example) could their association with the still psychologically developing child make that child more inclined towards a carnivorous mindset?

This idea is about a very subtle change in psychological biases could be caused by many years of said child interacting with it's pets, although it's a theory that would be nearly impossible to since such a small influence could easily be overshadowed by other events in the lives of any test subject, so this is all just interesting conjecture.

For the lols, lets have Nemo and myself as case studies. (sorta)

Nemo hypothetically grew up with poultry being his primary means of relating to the animal kingdom, an almost symbiotic relationship whereby the service of care and protection is rewarded with the prize of nutritious/tasty eggs. When the carnivorous fox killed the chickens this would have prompted a strong feeling of remorse from nemo; perhaps even guilt if we consider that he knew better than to blame the fox and in the absence of an otherwise acceptable “villain” he was left only with himself to blame, having failed to protect those that he probably believed at some level, that he was responsible for protecting.
It’s highly probable these events instilled in Nemo a sense of dutiful protection to all animals, by psychological association to them via the chickens that he was unable to save… I’d call it a “hero’s complex”, but that’s just me.

Speaking of which, I grew up with various dogs and a cat, a fluffy black Persian, it didn’t so much hunt, as it committed local genocide on any species that it deemed worthy of hunting. Most cats hunt small tasty things like birds or poor little native animals that don’t know how to protect themselves, but not Ebony, no for her I believe it was more of a dominance thing. It started as sport hunting, lizards as a kitten, snakes as she got bigger (dangerous snakes), eventually cumulating in foot-long water rats and traumatizing a german-shepard-something-or-other (a small bear of a dog, and known cat killer). Seriously if he (Hooch) got in her way, he’d get up just to let her pass, she’d even eat his food right in front of him, and once I even saw her curled up on top of him as he was sunbaking! I never saw the actual fight, but I remember seeing Hooch limp around with a face full of stiches and slight bleeding from between the shoulder blades. Evidently Ebony somehow managed to get onto his back and bite down on the back of his neck, I don’t know what the intention was when she did so (a kill bite? Or “kitten” treatment?) but it certainly earned his fear/respect.
…I’m not actually going anywhere with this, it’s just an interesting story, and obviously I seem to be lacking the necessary attention span for the point I was trying to make, although for the record Ebony was wonderful around people, seemed to think she was one too, as many cats do I suppose.

Okay here’s the point I was trying to make,
before I got side-tracked
Having spent several years of my childhood doing what a boy and a dog do when they’ve got rural bushland to play with (explore, find things, play-fight, get into trouble, get out of trouble, get into more trouble). Now my interactions with other animals were rather limited, either involving staying the hell away from them (or join the “snake/spider-bite club”) or playing with (harassing) them. Games included “annoy the wombat until it chases you” which is quite self explanatory and unbelievably funny to watch; Socker, which is basically like soccer, but with competitive sheep herding instead of kicking a ball, trees at the far ends of a paddock for goals and the extra rule that you’re allowed to used rolled up sock-balls or tennis balls to assist your herding, otherwise the sheep just stand there, oh and dogs are allowed, helpful or decidedly not, it’s all funny; lastly there’s the bull paddock game, which is pretty obvious, and was absolutely thrilling, until we realised the bull had no interest in actually charging anyone, it was a hand-fed softy (as they go, they can be temperamental) and that was only chasing people because it wanted food & attention, hence the new game, “how long can you run with a bale of hay?” which was an excellent spectator sport.
Again I’m getting side-tracked
My point was that playing with dogs and the associated dog’s perspective of respecting other animals made me less likely to be a vegetarian than Nemo who (hypothetically) enjoyed quietly feeding his peaceful chickens.

I say “hypothetically” because I’d like to assume this was the situation, after all the thought experiment isn’t about comparing Nemo and I as we are, it’s about comparing these hypothetical childhoods and discussing if or not they could have influenced dietary biases.

Yay, I got there in the end

 

[INTPINFP]

might be true

 

[Claverhouse]

I Temporarily Broke With Charlemagne Over This...

Mass shootings to feed the masses. Isn't any less moral than a single hunter killing one single deer to feed his family.

Sadly... I wasn't in the least referencing the killing of animals when I pointed to the disdain one feels for mass-shootings.

Although, of course, we're all part of the Animal Kingdom.


Claverhouse

 

[Yellow]

I spent about 10 years without eating meat or eggs, but it was more in protest against my father than anything. He was always killing things and then bringing them home and then making us eat them. After an incedent with an elk heart I decided that I was finished with the whole bloody affair (please forgive the pun). In the last four or five years though, I have incorporated eggs, and non-mammals into my diet. I am at war with all birds (long story) and fish are not exactly lovable, so eating them really doesn't bother me. As for the mammals, it is a gross thought, eating them seems almost cannibalistic, but really, I just hate the taste.

Some people are just so accustomed to meat that they go bezerk without it. My father becomes an intolerable bear if he does not eat at least 2 pounds of animals everyday. Me, I cannot go very long without grains. Both, in high amounts are unnatural for human diet, yet it is what we are used to.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

There's some places where hunting is almost necessary in order to keep human civilization in the areas. Moose have no natural predators and can get too large populations without regulation. Some places deer populations can get quite large as well with no intervention. Hunting purely for sport just seems stupid and disrespectful though. Venison is one the best meats I've ever had. I like how the Native Americans had reverence for the way of the hunt and respect for the animal that was killed by using as much of it as they possibly could if not all of it.

 

[Cogwulf]

There's some places where hunting is almost necessary in order to keep human civilization in the areas. Moose have no natural predators and can get too large populations without regulation. Some places deer populations can get quite large as well with no intervention. Hunting purely for sport just seems stupid and disrespectful though. Venison is one the best meats I've ever had. I like how the Native Americans had reverence for the way of the hunt and respect for the animal that was killed by using as much of it as they possibly could if not all of it.

Usually out of control deer populations are due to humans killing wolves and disturbing the balance in other ways

 

[Artifice Orisit]

How about we just kill everything and be done with it, they're all going to die anyway.

That was a jest… excluding goldfish.
Goldfish genocide will make the world a better place.

 

[nemo]

Cognisant, your case study was...interesting. Your comparisons brought the idea of Nature vs. Nurture up to me. How many vegetarians are so because of their original person, and how many are so because of their surroundings? I think it's a combination of both, although sometimes it can be completely one (e.g. someone that's been vegetarian since birth because of their parents - Nurture would be the cause). I know your example of me was purely hypothetical but I'm a little picky on details so here are some corrections:

1) I'm a she/her. You might've been using 'him' because it's the proper term for one if you don't know their gender, I dunno.

2) You say that you've lived with the dogs and cats, and I've lived with the chickens. That's not entirely true. I got a dog before I got chickens, pigeons, rabbits, guinea pigs, etc. This particular dog was amazing at rat catching. She'd pounce on it like a cat then take it out of the garage. Biting onto their tail she would spin around...and around...before letting it go to fly off into the neighbour's backyard. Clever dog.

There was a lot more I wanted to say, and most of it had a point, but I've forgotten.

Your theory of the 'hero's complex' seems pretty accurate about me. Another part of it is just the sadness that we are the way we are. I know, pretty pointless being sad about something we take as natural, but I believe we can change... It's just that no one wants to. This isn't just about the animal chain. I'm talking about society and human nature in general. I just find it so goddamn sad to observe what we are. Maybe I'm a bit of an idealist... *cue Imagine by John Lennon*

Nurture is a major part of influencing dietary bases, as you said. Where you live, who you live with, what you watch, hear and experience. All of this affects us in every way, not only what we eat.

My mind is muddled with the lack of sleep so excuse my incoherency and lack of *important* meaning. Nemo's atm: >______<""

 

[Madoness]

I'm 100% vegetarian. I don't eat any meat or any seafood. I don't think I could go vegan though, 'cause I love dairy too much. As to why I'm a vegetarian?

(Skip over this to ignore rant)
I've always loved animals; I made the resolution in Grade 3 to become a vegetarian, but it wasn't carried out til Year 7. The one deciding factor was probably having all my hens killed by a fox. For a while, I felt confused, and thought about animals and their nature a lot. I finally saw that while foxes kill hens to feed themselves and their young, humans can survive without meat. Many have, and hopefully many will. So I made the choice in the end and carried out with it. It's not really hard, except for the lack of (good) vegetarian food in a lot of places, and the constant pressuring of my relatives to "EAT MEAT! IT'S GOOD FOR YOU!".

I love plants too, but still sometimes smo... khmm... don't mind me....

Out of protest of cutting down rainforests, someone should become a carnivore. I would like to see it.

 

[nemo]

Sure, Madoness...
The carnivore person should be my cousin. He eats nothing BUT meat, I swear. And yet he's going through a weight loss phase. Strange child.

 

[INTPINFP]

Nemo is a guys name, so we assumed you were a guy. In many languages (Spanish, for example) words that end in 'o' are considered male. The rule carries in English as well, names that end in 'o' are considered more masculine.

Back on topic: I am a vegetarian and animal rights activist. But in my childhood I had no pets. However, I did notice terrible monstocities against animals, whether by word of mouth, television, or the real thing. It all started the day I was born. I refused to step on an ant or swat a bug. One day I was stung by a bumblebee and the bumblebee died.
My father set up mouse traps throughout the house. I asked him not to but he said they were too much a "threat". I saw the dead bodies. My father did not seem to enjoy killing them. I was angered at the whole process, how could harmless mice be "a threat." My parents also killed spiders, which were infact a real threat, but my idea was that they should be captured and thrown outside instead. Then I went to this "Christian camp". There I was made fun of everyday, but the worst part was the animostity towards animals. Kids there killed animals for fun, they threw rocks and killed defenseless turtles for no reason. they captured dozens of frogs and put all of them in plastic bags, only to suffocate them. (Actually I saved them before they suffocated.)
The point is, how are we to point the finger and say certain species are "overpopulated"? WE'RE THE MOST OVERPOPULATED SPECIES!!! Take the plank out of your own eye before pointing out the speck in your brother's eye.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

Usually out of control deer populations are due to humans killing wolves and disturbing the balance in other ways

that is a good point. do humans represent imbalance? are we just an imbalanced species? or is there some other underlying imbalance? nature is such a complex system, its amazing we(people) are even able to understand a thing about how it functions. then again we know next to nothing about how our own brains function. Every facet of knowledge in existence is amazing to me, its like how the hell did we figure anything out? that's fucking amazing! I do have trouble with the more boring pieces of knowledge though(that which is outside my spectrum of interests)

edit: thinking about that old saying "don't know what you got till its gone"

 

[sagewolf]

(Nature is indeed incredibly complex. When wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone, their presence actually had a positive effect on the levels of riverside plants in the park. With the wolves around, deer were less willing to spend time on the riverbanks, where they were vulnerable, and so they stopped overgrazing those plants, on which other species probably depend in an unending and incredibly complex cycle.)

I'm not strictly vegetarian (a diet consisting entirely of ramen and store-brand breakfast cereal is actually vegetarian, but that doesn't mean I'm one. It means I'm broke, heh.) I do care about animals, and grew up with dogs and rabbits in the house. The only kind of meat I don't like, though, is shellfish. I like meat a lot, especially red and poultry. I try to avoid pork: it's hard for the human digestive system to digest it, I heard. That's not to say I wouldn't try vegetarianism, but it would be for the sake of my own health, rather than to save the animals involved. I couldn't forget the futility of it-- as was said, it's no more than a drop in the ocean. Volunteering at an animal shelter seems like a far more effective way of helping animals than not eating meat, to me.

 

[aracaris]

I'm definitely not vegetarian myself, but there certainly are people out there that should be (regardless I respect a person's right to decide whether they eat meat or not anyhow). Like any number of foods some people just can't stomach meat, and I don't mean for psychological reasons, but they will actually become ill if they eat it.
I'm not sure why this is, but if I had to hazard a guess maybe the reasons are similar to why some people can't handle gluten, and some people can't handle lactose.

If I had to cut out meat from my diet it would probably be pork, because pigs are pretty smart, and it's not the best idea in the world to eat something which is a secondary consumer anyhow (and pork is not one of my favorite meats), and I'd probably cut out birds as well because I feel more of an affinity with them than with non-human mammals.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

I'm a she/her. You might've been using 'him' because it's the proper term for one if you don't know their gender, I dunno.

You're a girl?

Ah, well that explains everything
*Cog braces himself*
YouTube- Caramelldansen - PWN'd

I love that video.

 

[Cavallier]

This is always such a hot topic which makes it interesting.

I'm open to vegetarians and vegans. Eat what you will. Personally, I think we're all just animals. I think that animals can, do, did, and will continue to eat people with no moral compunctions what so ever. Yeah, people smell and many carnivores avoid us but then again we're just another meat buffet to a Polar Bear. I am disturbed by way in which we go about getting our meat these days. Feed lots and chicken hatcheries are deeply disgusting. It's not healthy for the animals and it's not healthy for us. So I get local meat. Fresh eggs from a small farm, locally grown beef from the farmers' markets, and fresh fish from safe hatcheries that don't contaminate the local wildlife. I guess it's fairly easy for me to do since I live in a pretty progressive rural community in Oregon. I don't know what to say for you midwesterners.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

The mainstream meat industry does suck. When everything becomes purely business its maintaining the highest profit margin possible with no regard for anything else. Keeping livestock in too close quarters and too overpopulated is just a recipe for disaster. I think some countries are like that with people too. Sucks. Quit overpopulating the world!!!!

The thing that bothers me most about vegetarians are the ones that think its the perfect diet that everyone should eat. They don't bother to do the research on getting proper nutrition with the loss of many essential nutrients meat has. There is no way of going full vegetarian without taking some kinds of dietary supplements currently with the legal restrictions on many nutritious plants. So some of them happen to have certain "drugs" in them...its no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.The best plant nutritional supplement I know of is mostly illegal, legal with the active THC removed but this is removing a vital component from the edible form. The stuff is not nearly as harmful to the body eaten vs. being smoked. Anyways my last point is most vegetarians I know get sick a lot more than most non-vegetarians I know. Some of the oldest living people ate things like lard, lots of eggs, and lots of meat. Its all about the region where your genetic heritage is from. what kinds of food did your ancestors eat? For most people this is mostly veggies but also a good amount of meat too. Some people do better to eat more meat than veggies, it all depends on your body type/ancestry.

 

[mm1991]

I've tried vegetarianism plenty of times but was never able to stick with it.
I'm still holding out hope, though.

I'd like to add that I've been trying to do this for my health. Not because I think killing animals for food is wrong.

 

[Anling]

I can't seem to manage a vegetarian diet even with supplements. Just doesn't work for me. I function far better with meat than without.

 

[GarmGarf]

I prioritize the welfare of human beings infinitely above the welfare of animals. The following is a technical explanation of what that means:

In any situation, determine the moral soundness of it via the following steps:

- Regarding only Humans' welfare: judge if good or bad using other morals; if good, then okay; if bad, then not okay; if neutral, then go to next step.

- Regarding only animals' welfare: judge if good or bad using other morals; if good, then okay; if bad, then not okay; if neutral, then neutral.​

So basically, according to my morality, the concerns of animals comes after the concerns of humans (where the tiniest degree of human concern trumps the maximum amount of animal concern possible).


So, I see nothing wrong with eating animal meat according to my morality, plus I like it so I'll stick with it.

 

[Logician]

I don't see the problem, because we like their meat and milk cattle are a extremely succesfull species. thier population is enomous and they are allowed to reproduce easily, they are very very well fed and if they become ill we treat them to make them better. Of course, we slaughter them, but i doubt they have the capacity to care, they would just die anyway. In fact if it weren't for the humans, that cow would almost definitely have never existed due to the fact that we breed them, and their life span would actually be shorter due to health problems and predators, yes we eventually eat them, but only after they have reproduced and are over the hill of their life.

And i agree completely with what GarmGarf above said.

Regarding the killing of them, how is it that humans are murdered everyday and most likely you view this with a measured amount of distaste at best (being the detached INTPs we are there is a good chance we will feal nothing at all).

Finally regarding their living conditions when mass produced... this applies mainly just to chickens, and its unfortunate. I would rather it not be that way but there's little to be done about it, and what could be done would require way to much effort to be worth it, not eating them certainly wont help.

However that brings up the point about human overpopulation.... ive seriously considered becoming a biologist just to engineer a bacteria to wipe out about 50% of the worlds pop... preferable the bacteria would target only people who are extreme conformists, which would probably take out at least the above percent.... or is that just a overdose of insanity as i say in my sig... its so hard to tell... maby ill make a independent thread about this.

 

[Madoness]

Whatever else, but do not become like that when being vegetarian. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e98qPiW8fM

 

[aracaris]

On the wasting money on health insurance premiums for diseases she might not get issue.

That's a issue for anyone whom has health insurance and doesn't have pre-existing conditions, or a genetic predisposition towards something. That's the unpredictable nature of life...so whatever.

Oh so much sarcasm, which I usually find quite entertaining.

The actual potentially serious drawbacks of veganism she didn't go into (for example the higher risk of B12 deficiency, which can cause all kinds of problems).

The only sufficient sources of B12 humans in past eras had were animal sources, so the vegans of today are lucky there's other sources available now.

There isn't one single diet that is going to be right for everyone, if being vegan or vegetarian, or omnivore or pretty much whatever works for you...then great!
Just don't eat me and I'm happy.

I know people whose health got worse after becoming vegetarian, so it isn't for everyone, and just not eating meat, or animal products alone isn't necessarily going to be beneficial.

I think it's more important to eat healthy things, meat or no meat, and to avoid eating a bunch of crap food (though some people do just fine eating a lot of "crap" food too). I think vegans and vegetarians have a higher tendency of avoiding crap food (fast food chains don't exactly cater to them after all), and generally find they develop a greater awareness of what they are eating, and that is more what causes the lower rates of certain health issues.

But you can still eat twinky after twinky and be vegetarian (though not vegan) so....

Also

Aside from the issue of whether there is any such thing as being morally superior (a whole separate debate), I'm pretty sure it doesn't include looking down on people for being different than you.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

If anyone does decide to go into vegan/vegetarianism, make sure you take your B-complex supplements and also make sure you are getting your amino acids. Hemp and flax are the best plant sources of aminos. I consider hemp superior to flax because it tastes way better, and degrades slower. Flax is gross, don't take my word for it tho, I am a bit biased towards hemp for many reasons.

 

[nemo]

>___>
Don't worry Cog, I won't kill you...I think that anger management program really has helped me.
Now where have I heard that song before?

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

if we shouldn't treat pigs worse than dogs...maybe we should just eat dogs too (i am scared of dogs )

 

[Madoness]

if we shouldn't treat pigs worse than dogs...maybe we should just eat dogs too (i am scared of dogs )

You can ead dogs in some parts of China.... I don't remember the breed of this dog though. And no, I've never eaten one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat

 

[aracaris]

If anyone does decide to go into vegan/vegetarianism, make sure you take your B-complex supplements and also make sure you are getting your amino acids. Hemp and flax are the best plant sources of aminos. I consider hemp superior to flax because it tastes way better, and degrades slower. Flax is gross, don't take my word for it tho, I am a bit biased towards hemp for many reasons.

Personally I like flax...but this is all a matter of taste obviously anyhow. I've never eaten hemp that I can remember, but I know it comes in my the seed mix that some of my birds eat, I'll have to ask them how it is LOL.


------------------------------------------------------------------

I know someone whom tried dog meat, said it tasted really good, and made them very sick. The meat might not have been cleaned and cooked properly, but beyond that, generally speaking the meat of mammals which are omnivores or carnivores is not as healthy to eat as the meat of herbivores.