Trying to find my fit

[marcus73x]

I'll preface this with my own disclaimer. Yes, I"m dark, and yes, I'm depressed. I'm 38, I am a loner, and generally pretty liberal.

In HS I was a good student mostly because I didn't have to try hard. All the subjects were dumbed down so much that I was almost straight As without lifting a finger. At college, I majored in math, but I didn't have the longevity (and was already severely depressed from a life-altering injury), so my grades weren't really good.

After college I was in the Navy, but the injuries from before were so exacerbated that I couldn't stay in even if I wanted to, and my physical activity abilities came to a stop. I haven't been able to get into a program or routine again, as the pain comes back, and gives that excuse to stop.

Got a tech job that lasted a few years. Was very good at it too. Felt I earned way more than I was being paid (with cause, but I won't debate that here), and slipped further into depression. My attitude suffered, and I was laid off in '05.

During that time I started a MS in Stats, in '03. I started this program strong, but the layoff stopped all momentum, and I still haven't recovered since.

Got another job that started very rocky, but found a niche that I could do something. That lasted until a company-wide layoff of 15% of the workforce in '09.

I still picked at that degree. the whole time. I failed classes many times by not attending either because of professional commitment, or disinterest in driving then fighting for parking, then sitting, then driving...

I got another job after 10 months of looking, but it was such a bad fit, it only lasted 4 months.

Regarding grad school... I stopped going figuring I would never be able to use it professionally. I'm was a few classes and exams from completion.

My confidence in being able to complete anything has taken a severe beating over this time. So the idea of learning seems so nice, but committing to anything for fear of failure, or ineptitude frequently quashes the idea.

I used to rebound from failures until I got up once from a particularly bad one and asked myself why. Then the depression got worse.

I'm still deeply depressed. Yes, I've sought help repeatedly. The meds shut down my thinking, so I wind up getting off the meds just to think straight. Repeat cycle.

I've been unemployed a while, and my benefits just ran out. I'm going through the associated rough patch financially. I've been on the job hunt for a very long time though.

I'm trying to get jobs in tech or math or analysis, since I am not only educated in the field, I simply think that way. I've been declined several positions because of not being technical enough, or deep enough in their field. Interviews are tough to come by too, so these are very disheartening.

So this kind of feedback has pointed me back to consideration of further education. This presents many challenges, not only in admittance, but in performance as well. I don't have any idea what to look for. I lean toward math, but my washout from grad school once already makes me feel inadequate to the task. I think a phd is something for the way I think, but the commitment is something I have trouble with.

So I search, and go broke in the meantime, depending on the generosity of others to simply get by.

I am so lost that I'm frozen in indecision. The best I have right now is to try to get employed so I can jump back up to misery level (from the misery and despair plateau).

Any suggestions on anything?

 

[shoeless]

your depression is going to be your biggest setback. it always is. the lack of motivation, the crushing feeling from every disappointment, all of it will prevent you from moving forward. i'm sure you know that. are you seeing a therapist currently?

i don't like pharmaceutical depression medications. it just masks the root of the problem and the side effects simply aren't worth it. you should talk to your therapist or doctor about natural alternatives to medication. it could stem from a nutritional deficiency (i think that's the cause more often than not, especially in america). i read recently that a lot of people are deficient in the L-tryptophan amino acid, which is a precursor to the production of serotonin in the brain. these sort of deficiencies can be supplemented without too many side effects, and a change in diet (cut down on refined sugars and processed foods) can really be a miracle cure that a lot of people look over. at least consider it. it won't change everything that's wrong in your life, of course, but it's a start.

i've been taking 5-htp for anxiety and it also does wonders for depression. the side effects are minimal at the worst (maybe mild headaches or stomach upset, though the severity is different for every person) and my mood has improved greatly. i've gone from 4-6 panic attacks per week to maybe one every couple weeks. just something to think about; i don't want to promote self-medication on relatively untested products, but that's just been my experience with it. again, talk to your therapist/doctor and see if it might be a good fit for you.

as far as getting work goes, i understand how difficult it can be. my brother moved to austin a few years ago hoping to find a job with his english degree with almost zero luck. he wound up in a library, which is better than nothing, but it took him months and months to get there. all i can say is, you have to keep up the search, regardless of how hopeless it seems. your degree is a lot more marketable than my brother's, i believe, so with enough perseverance you WILL find a job. take any leads, follow up on everything, and don't reject any job unless out of necessity.

anyway, that's all i have to offer. i hope things turn up for you; with the way the economy is these days, everybody seems to be struggling, but you'll get through it. people always get through it. just gotta keep truckin'.

 

[marcus73x]

I haven't gone to a therapist in a while, as it's quite a bit of a drive, and I can't afford the gas money. I get the meds though through disability (oh yeah, I'm a disabled vet too)... whether or not I take them is something else.

I appreciate your recommendation, but I don't have money for that. I'm on the brink of going homeless. Thankfully, I have my family that helps with a roof and meals. If not, I'd be on the street by now.

I agree that depression is the stumbling block, but without making progress professionally, I have no resources to manage that stumbling block.

 

[downsowf]

At this point, just get any job for the time being. What about being a substitute teacher in math or science? Then eventually you can find the job you want. Going to grad school will just render you more in debt at this point. Right?

Try writing a novel. Or writing in general. This helps get your thoughts out, not have to pay for a therapist, and can be quite liberating.

 

[Deridaburi]

Is it feasible to teach yourself? Is the information readily available? And if it is what might prevent a person from learning on their own?

 

[shoeless]

as far as the money is concerned, 5-htp supplements are pretty affordable. a 30 day 50mg dosage costs about $7 at my store. you could probably find it cheaper elsewhere. and of course if you buy a bigger bottle you'll save money in the long run (i just got a 90 day supply for something around $17. won't have to think about it for another three months, and i'm on a fairly tight budget myself right now, fresh out of high school.)

but anyway, i do hope you can get yourself on your feet. i dunno why our government treats veterans so... not that great. my boyfriend's dad is a vietnam veteran and they just kicked him out of his home more or less, was living in germany and working as a contractor for the military but now he has to up and find another place and another job in a random state where nobody seems to want to take him, even in government positions. you'd think it would be better than that. that's the way of the world i guess.

 

[digital angel]

Do what you need to do. The market is demoralizing right now. Also, have you checked into any programs designed for vets? Try to look into positions with government, too. Good luck.

 

[marcus73x]

Thanks for the interest and replies.

I'll try to answer questions.

Re: School increasing debt. My state has a program for vets. I'm looking into its possibilities.

Re: Writing. I have a couple ideas to write about. Can't seem to get them across, or complete the thoughts. I suck at keeping a journal. I always edit myself, or rephrase to make myself clearer... to myself. It winds up reading like a how-to manual on grammar and logical thought processes. Tried it once or twice a year for the last 20 years.

Re: Teaching myself. Yes, it is absolutely possible to teach myself. I'm in the process of re-learning some calculus (cause I know it's especially applicable in higher level math), Programming (in Python, Java, and C++), Cantonese, and I'm tinkering with a couple other concepts to see if I like them enough to learn more about them. The MIT OCW site is awesome.

Re: Treatment of vets. I really have no complaints about how well I'm treated as a vet. With how down I get, people who know me wonder if the military did this to me. The military just gave me [further] world-wide perspective and enough experience to understand that I don't make a good leader when I'm immersed in thought all the time.

Re: Current job market. I've been told the 'just get through it' idea many times... mostly by those who are generous enough to help me. I'm pretty sure its because they want me to stop mooching off them. Outside of that, my usual approach of getting my resume out there, and cherry-picking the opportunities hasn't evolved. I'm trying to get placed as an underachieving math/analysis geek when there are hundreds of us out there. I'm not competitive, so I really stick to what I'm qualified for already. Each rejection makes me feel less and less qualified. I'm trying to shake that feeling, but it comes back all the time. Not getting job --> Not Qual-d or better candidate (or dissolution of job req, but I'll stay out of that sphere). So my logic itself is what drives me down. The logic is the only reliable thing I've had in my life for my whole life though, so I'm extremely reticent to disregard anything my reasoning reveals.

Generally, I can't really do very manual work, or standing for extended periods any longer. I'm an intellect, and would prefer to be able to use it. Seems like the realm of usage of that intellect has evolved to a point where everyone wants a candidate with a phd. So I come back to school.

I'm not above being wrong, so please, if you see a flaw in my approach, I would really appreciate it.

 

[downsowf]

Thanks for the interest and replies.

I'll try to answer questions.

Re: School increasing debt. My state has a program for vets. I'm looking into its possibilities.

Re: Writing. I have a couple ideas to write about. Can't seem to get them across, or complete the thoughts. I suck at keeping a journal. I always edit myself, or rephrase to make myself clearer... to myself. It winds up reading like a how-to manual on grammar and logical thought processes. Tried it once or twice a year for the last 20 years.

Yeah, me too. I keep on telling myself that I'll write the next great American novel one day. It's on my list of things to do. Just haven't gotten roun' there yet.

: Current job market. I've been told the 'just get through it' idea many times... mostly by those who are generous enough to help me. I'm pretty sure its because they want me to stop mooching off them. Outside of that, my usual approach of getting my resume out there, and cherry-picking the opportunities hasn't evolved. I'm trying to get placed as an underachieving math/analysis geek when there are hundreds of us out there. I'm not competitive, so I really stick to what I'm qualified for already. Each rejection makes me feel less and less qualified. I'm trying to shake that feeling, but it comes back all the time. Not getting job --> Not Qual-d or better candidate (or dissolution of job req, but I'll stay out of that sphere). So my logic itself is what drives me down. The logic is the only reliable thing I've had in my life for my whole life though, so I'm extremely reticent to disregard anything my reasoning reveals.

Generally, I can't really do very manual work, or standing for extended periods any longer. I'm an intellect, and would prefer to be able to use it. Seems like the realm of usage of that intellect has evolved to a point where everyone wants a candidate with a phd. So I come back to school.

I'm not above being wrong, so please, if you see a flaw in my approach, I would really appreciate it.

I have a feeling that even in a good economy we INTPs still would have a hard time figuring out what to do. I wouldn't be delusional enough to give you advice I'm not qualified to give or tell you not to go to school. I'll be entering the job market this summer and will probably be asking you advice. Perhaps I'll get an LLM, but this whole being broke thing kind of sucks.

 

[digital angel]

Thanks for the interest and replies.

I'll try to answer questions.

Re: School increasing debt. My state has a program for vets. I'm looking into its possibilities.

Re: Writing. I have a couple ideas to write about. Can't seem to get them across, or complete the thoughts. I suck at keeping a journal. I always edit myself, or rephrase to make myself clearer... to myself. It winds up reading like a how-to manual on grammar and logical thought processes. Tried it once or twice a year for the last 20 years.

Re: Teaching myself. Yes, it is absolutely possible to teach myself. I'm in the process of re-learning some calculus (cause I know it's especially applicable in higher level math), Programming (in Python, Java, and C++), Cantonese, and I'm tinkering with a couple other concepts to see if I like them enough to learn more about them. The MIT OCW site is awesome.

Re: Treatment of vets. I really have no complaints about how well I'm treated as a vet. With how down I get, people who know me wonder if the military did this to me. The military just gave me [further] world-wide perspective and enough experience to understand that I don't make a good leader when I'm immersed in thought all the time.

Re: Current job market. I've been told the 'just get through it' idea many times... mostly by those who are generous enough to help me. I'm pretty sure its because they want me to stop mooching off them. Outside of that, my usual approach of getting my resume out there, and cherry-picking the opportunities hasn't evolved. I'm trying to get placed as an underachieving math/analysis geek when there are hundreds of us out there. I'm not competitive, so I really stick to what I'm qualified for already. Each rejection makes me feel less and less qualified. I'm trying to shake that feeling, but it comes back all the time. Not getting job --> Not Qual-d or better candidate (or dissolution of job req, but I'll stay out of that sphere). So my logic itself is what drives me down. The logic is the only reliable thing I've had in my life for my whole life though, so I'm extremely reticent to disregard anything my reasoning reveals.

Generally, I can't really do very manual work, or standing for extended periods any longer. I'm an intellect, and would prefer to be able to use it. Seems like the realm of usage of that intellect has evolved to a point where everyone wants a candidate with a phd. So I come back to school.

I'm not above being wrong, so please, if you see a flaw in my approach, I would really appreciate it.

Your candor is great. With respect to receiving a "no" or any of the other answers you listed in the paragraph regarding the job market, try to think of the answers as temporary. In other words, not getting the job now means precisely that. I know this can be difficult(I've been looking/under-employed for a long time). Do you have someone you can talk to after being rejected from a position? This could help, too.

Is there a position that you're interested in, in a company or institution that has promotion potential? If so, this could facilitate your ambitions or goals. Keep moving forward. I hope this helps.

 

[digital angel]

Yeah, me too. I keep on telling myself that I'll write the next great American novel one day. It's on my list of things to do. Just haven't gotten roun' there yet.


I have a feeling that even in a good economy we INTPs still would have a hard time figuring out what to do. I wouldn't be delusional enough to give you advice I'm not qualified to give or tell you not to go to school. I'll be entering the job market this summer and will probably be asking you advice. Perhaps I'll get an LLM, but this whole being broke thing kind of sucks.

-I too, have a list. I'll get around to some of the things listed some day. My list keeps changing, too.


-With respect to your statement regarding INTPs and a good economy, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right.