Traitors & Saviours

[Artifice Orisit]

Traitors & Saviours

Who are the traitors & who are the saviours?

I am referring to the opposing aspects of Transhumanism & Theology, their differing ideas/methods about “ascension”, and whom is most likely to save use from non-existence, or be the source of our doom.

Transhumanism
The human race has come a long way in a very short space of time and this trend seems only set to continue. However we must ask ourselves if this is the right path we are taking, if our eventual fate is ours to choose, are we wise enough to make that choice? Does the power and responsibility that comes with the mantle of a god befitting of the children that we are?
One of humanities greatest and most terrible achievements was the creation of nuclear weaponry; a source of power so strong it nearly destroyed us, and may yet still. Now with the creation of ever more complex AIs we seem set to develop an even greater power; not one destruction, but of creation. Will the creation of the worlds first true artificial intelligence be the first step in the ascension of humanity, or will it be the final throw of the dice that costs us everything.
Are the scientists working on AI, robotics, IT and various other system building & analysing fields our saviours, or are they our unwitting betrayers. I doubt there is a single coder in this world who hasn’t dreamed of being the one who changes everything, regardless if this change is for better or for worse.

Theology…I’ve said this all before, no point repeating it.
By repeating I will in fact be insulting everybody’s intelligence.

 

[Jordan~]

The theologians will lead us to ignorance, superstition and the primitive, mystical ways of our ancestors - ideas entirely out of place in the modern world. The scientists are the saviours who'll guide us to the paradise once promised by religion. But my position there was obvious.

BTW, your next post will be 1337.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

1337ness, damn I wish I could freeze the counter in that.

Also I hope somebody will support the other side, they do have some vaild ground to stand on.

 

[Da Blob]

1337ness, damn I wish I could freeze the counter in that.

Also I hope somebody will support the other side, they do have some vaild ground to stand on.

Once again i hear the voice of Cognisant echoing down the hallways. Once again it reflects an irritating POV. However, no growth occurs except as a reaction to irritation and if one surrounds one's Self with only those who agree with one, nothing changes and it gets boring...

Actually there are a number of INTPians who have never agreed with me on anything, yet I would be willing to defend them from an unwarranted attack, simply because their disagreement is not rote repetition of the Oppressors' propaganda - No, they have enough self-respect to put their own spin on the said propaganda...

Well, at least, there is the concession that the human race needs a savior now on the board. The religion of Human Secularism preaches that humans are the source of all things good and have no need of external salvation.

Not being a psychic I can not discount a future involving transhumanism. However, if I might point to the bloody history of humanity and the prevalence of Man's Inhumanity to Man, I do see much hope in such an existence. At least formerly slaves could escape, if only through death. Transhuman slaves will not even be afforded that option. In fact there is a old science fiction story by Ellison that details that scenario in some graphic imagery, I think the title is "If I had a Mouth, I would Scream"

Surprisingly enough, I do not point to the theologians as the saviors of mankind either. I do not know if anyone has actually been led to Christ by reading and understanding the logic underlaying a theological essay. There really is little to Christ that is subject to man's pitiful logic, whether it is of the theological flavor or some other, more popular variety......

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Once again i hear the voice of Cognisant echoing down the hallways. Once again it reflects an irritating POV. However, no growth occurs except as a reaction to irritation and if one surrounds one's Self with only those who agree with one, nothing changes and it gets boring...

I think I’ve just been insulted and praised at the same time, cool; but perhaps the word “Antagonistic” could replace “irritating, oh and the one “i” should be capitalised.

Actually there are a number of INTPians who have never agreed with me on anything, yet I would be willing to defend them from an unwarranted attack, simply because their disagreement is not rote repetition of the Oppressors' propaganda - No, they have enough self-respect to put their own spin on the said propaganda...

All opinions are based upon perspective and as such any opinion expressed with the intention of propagating that opinion is a form of propaganda. Idealistically all opinions would be the result of independent conceptualization based upon logic and personal experience. However we lack such an ideal existence.
(ideal from an autonomist perspective anyway)

Well, at least, there is the concession that the human race needs a savior now on the board. The religion of Human Secularism preaches that humans are the source of all things good and have no need of external salvation.

There are many paths before us, some leading to places we want to go, others to our doom. Our “salvation” would not necessarily be some form of divine intervention, merely a concessus about which what path would be the right one to take. As for an actual “saviour” some form of leader whom we can follow; I don’t know if that is necessary and don’t think it would be fair for anyone to take such responsibility.

Not being a psychic I can not discount a future involving transhumanism. However, if I might point to the bloody history of humanity and the prevalence of Man's Inhumanity to Man, I do see much hope in such an existence. At least formerly slaves could escape, if only through death. Transhuman slaves will not even be afforded that option. In fact there is a old science fiction story by Ellison that details that scenario in some graphic imagery, I think the title is "If I had a Mouth, I would Scream"

Of course any form of power that exists has the potential to be abused; I’m just more willing to trust goal based objective reasoning than the whims of some unknowable force that is seen subjectively as “god” (god= any deity from any culture).

Surprisingly enough, I do not point to the theologians as the saviors of mankind either. I do not know if anyone has actually been led to Christ by reading and understanding the logic underlaying a theological essay. There really is little to Christ that is subject to man's pitiful logic, whether it is of the theological flavor or some other, more popular variety......

For the purposes of this thread can we completely drop the notion of Christianity = the one true god. I not going to bother flogging the bones of a dead horse.

 

[Jordan~]

"Some valid ground", eh? :P

 

[tom]

theologians will lead us to ignorance, superstition and the primitive, mystical ways of our ancestors - ideas entirely out of place in the modern world. The scientists are the saviours who'll guide us to the paradise once promised by religion. But my position there was obvious.

Jordan your statement sounds the same to me as any catholic reciting the Nicene creed.

It is certainly not a view that can be backed by evidence or logic. The difference between tranhumanism and religion is minimal. Both offer a paradise at some point in the future and both offer horrific results for failure.

The singularity will be the most important occurence in mankind's history - if we miss it, we go extinct; if we get it right, we transcend.

My intention is not to pick on any belief but merely to provoke discussion and true thought.

 

[Jordan~]

On the contrary, transhumanism as a philosophy promises nothing - it's concerned with what should be, not with what will be. Predicitons concerning the role transhumanism will play in the future of mankind are a different thing altogether, and are purely theoretical - unlike theories concerning spirituality, however, they're based on more than just conjecture. One can observe, project and predict when speaking about a transhuman future - there is no observable spiritual present to extend into a spiritual future.
In summary: Transhumanism is a philosophy, my predictions concerning the future of mankind are a personal theory based on observation of where we've been and where we are right now.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

YouTube- transhumanism

Of course spirituality isn't in any way wrong, we just need to forget the dogma of the past.

YouTube- mad scientists (transhumanism)
Very interesting. Just for the sake of balance.

 

[Tyria]

I disagree about one thing: prediction when it comes to machines. With programs having millions of lines of code and teams of programmers making them, the chance for having unpredictable effects dramatically rises. If the program could ever actually evolve, I think we would be in for a great suprise (not sure whether it would be good or bad). While we can make predictions about what will happen, their accuracy is about as precise as trying to use a sledgehammer to create the Mona Lisa on a piece of standard sized canvas.