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Ti vs Fi - Compare/Contrast

Auburn

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#1
Alright, so I would especially like to invite our fellow INFPs into this thread to possibly give more insight into the differences and similarities between Ti and Fi. :D:o

As INTPs, our Ti function is our dominant, and our Fi function is often nonexistent - theoretically being our least developed function. The two are on opposite poles of our personality, however upon more carefully comparing the two functions side by side, I've noticed that they resemble each other very much!

Here are some definitions of Ti and Fi to help start this thread:
Below is a quote from Linda V. Berens, an MBTI author and expert.

Introverted Thinking (Ti) often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed.
Now, the following is one of the best quotes I've ever heard regarding the nature of the Fi function, written by an INFP here on the forum: Snail :D

I feel that my emotions are trustworthy. I use them to fine-tune my value system, which utterly rejects prejudices such as those GarmGarf mentioned. I do this by waiting until I have a feeling, then checking it against what I believe I should feel. If the two are not consistent, I re-analyze why I believe I should feel otherwise. If it does not make sense or is inconsistent with the rest of my values, particularly the foundations of the value system, I alter the value until it is properly aligned. If the reason makes sense and retains an internal consistency with the rest of the value system, I figure out why I am feeling inappropriately. When I discover the core of the error, I can work to change the spiritual flaw in order to change the emotion. I continue focusing on appropriate attitudes until the actual emotion aligns with the value system again.
Does anyone else see the similarities? In my mind, it's almost as if the Fi function is like a Ti function who's focus has instead shifted inwardly to one's own personal value system. I understand the Ti function quite well, but am curious as to what exactly the Fi functions is.

Seeing as how INFPs are dominant Fi, are there any INFPs out there who could provide some insight?
 

fullerene

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#2
53 replies and 0 responses.

*bumps* for auburn until the INFPs come around ;)
 

FF

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#3
You meant to say 53 views, correct? ^^;

And I just wanted to say that in INTPs, I feel like Fe is non-existant, rather than Fi. Or at least that's the case for me. I have no problem understanding my emotions. Even though I rarely act on my emotions, I do consider myself to be quite an emotional person. But I don't show my emotions on the outside, to people. I can't. It's too hard for me to do, it makes me feel all mushy-gushy, and it makes things really complicated.
 
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#4
You meant to say 53 views, correct? ^^;

And I just wanted to say that in INTPs, I feel like Fe is non-existant, rather than Fi. Or at least that's the case for me. I have no problem understanding my emotions. Even though I rarely act on my emotions, I do consider myself to be quite an emotional person. But I don't show my emotions on the outside, to people. I can't. It's too hard for me to do, it makes me feel all mushy-gushy, and it makes things really complicated.
i agree. my understanding of emotion (as much as my theories and ideas) is understood well, just to act on these is pure trepidation. me, have feelings, NEVER. but this is just a mask i wear, just the mask cracks when desired one speaks and i inadvertantly giggle and turn into a cute little furry animal. i commented on how she 'rendered me lesser than a poodle'. but she made me wear sunglasses, this helped my blushing. i am now an extroverts 'Pocket Emo' apparently. she then hugged me and swore god by my name. throughout the day she gave looks hung on my words. i hardly even spoke! i wish all chicks were this easy, not that i have said anything to her nor ever will. upon her bequeathing cynicism returns. i don't enjoy being a furry animal
 

Wisp

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#5
Actually, Ti and Fi are extremely similar, almost the same, really. T and F are both judging functions, and Ti and Fi are both focused internally. Thus, they fill almost the same role. INFPs actually function ALMOST THE SAME AS an INTP, probably the closest type to ours in the entire MBTI. THeir only difference is the use of T rather than F. They are just as fascinating at building models as we INTPs are, but instead of building models of things, and concepts, like we do, they build models of values, and their emotions! This fits in almost exactly with what snail said about the internal value system.

We do more or less the exact same things, the difference is in the subject matter.

Dissenting opinions, anyone?
 
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#6
all the art and music i do is based on emotion, does this make me INFP?

i share general life and values with INTP, but when i get creative i just let my emotions do the work
 

FF

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#7
Dissenting opinions, anyone?
No, I totally agree. INTPs and INFPs analyze subjects in the same way, but the main difference is that T's make their decisions based off of logic and reason, and F's make their decisions off of their values and other people's emotions. Plain and simple. :)
 

FF

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#8
all the art and music i do is based on emotion, does this make me INFP?

i share general life and values with INTP, but when i get creative i just let my emotions do the work
I doubt that. It's hard to come across someone who is completely T, with no F.

For a long time, I had wondered whether I was an INTP or an INFP. I realized that I was truly an INTP when I noticed I had a lot of things in common with fellow INTPs...I refuse to believe in anything unless it logically makes sense. And I almost always hate authority. I hate doing things for other people. It's hard for me to see good in all people (an important INFP characteristic)

Maybe you just have a more developed F than most INTPs, although your T is even more developed than that. That's how it's like for me, anyway.
 

Weliddryn

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#9
all the art and music i do is based on emotion, does this make me INFP?

i share general life and values with INTP, but when i get creative i just let my emotions do the work
If so, I am as well. Most of my art work is done because of emotional influences, but when I am constructing a piece, I normally do not feel any of the emotions inspiring it. I suppose I base my pieces more on events in my life that should inspire emotion, or have inspired emotion... its almost like trying to figure it out- am I feeling something about this? What am I feeling?
Hard to explain, but I do believe that emotion is the source of my art.
Either way, a person is highly unlikely to be completely an INTP. (in other words, 100% introverted, 100% intuitive, 100% thinking, and 100% perceiving).
I do not know enough about the MBTI to judge on the matter, though.
 

Auburn

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#10
Wisp, that was a beautiful post. I agree fully.

@FastFusion


Interesting. I'm almost entirely the opposite. My Fe function is very much developed and it's my Fi that is weaker. I might sound like a heretic for saying this in an INTP forum but... ...I'm actually quite familiar with expressions of emotion. I can be very affectionate and openly loving. Yes. Warm-fuzzies and all.

However, I have a hard time with Fi - which is the function nicknamed the "conscience". From what I understand, it's the function that analyzes and noticed inconsistencies within your own self and others. It's what strives to maintain your integrity - your identity.


@Seducer & Weliddryn

The MBTI four letter code is based on the 8 Jungian functions. In the MBTI, the eight preferences are paired against each other in such a way that it makes it seem like you can't have both - that it's either one or the other.

However, cognitively speaking, this in far from true. I consider myself as having "Ti-Ne, Fe" which means my primary axis is made up of a Ti-Ne partnership. The Fe is right behind the other two and often works together with Ne as well.

An INTP's cognitive functions are most commonly accepted as being Ti-Ne-Si-Fe. This means that by the time an INTP reaches full development, which is said to be middle-age or so, he should have a fully working Ti and Fe function. So, for instance, an elderly INTP who doesn't understand the jungian functions and who takes the MBTI for the first time, might be extremely confused between being INTP and INFP because he has a fully developed T function and also a fully developed F function. The test is making him choose one or the other, and so it leaves him confounded.

From what you've both posted, I'm thinking your emotions sound more extroverted than introverted (very much like my own). Art is often the extroversion of ones emotions - the manifestation of them. You may very well be INTPs, but just INTPs with developed Fe functions.


Disclaimer: The above is nothing more than the naiive ramblings of someone with no formal psychological education. :D:o
 
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#11
@Seducer
I'm thinking your F sounds more extroverted than introverted. Art is often an open expression of ones emotions. It could very well be your Fe that's manifesting. INTPs have Fe as their fourth function, and it usually doesn't develop until mid-life. However, there are exceptions to this.

Heh, you sound a lot like me in more ways than you may know.
A: What Ways?

B: What will happen to me Mid-Life :phear: will i be........loving :eek:
 

Auburn

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#12
[Heh, sorry ^^ I just edited some more info in.]

A:
i agree. my understanding of emotion (as much as my theories and ideas) is understood well, just to act on these is pure trepidation. me, have feelings, NEVER. but this is just a mask i wear, just the mask cracks when desired one speaks and i inadvertently giggle and turn into a cute little furry animal. i commented on how she 'rendered me lesser than a poodle'. but she made me wear sunglasses, this helped my blushing. i am now an extroverts 'Pocket Emo' apparently. she then hugged me and swore god by my name. throughout the day she gave looks hung on my words. i hardly even spoke! i wish all chicks were this easy, not that i have said anything to her nor ever will. upon her bequeathing cynicism returns. i don't enjoy being a furry animal
B: What' wrong with being loving? :D
 
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#13
yikes!

for an INTP i do kinda seem emotional.

Auburn are you female?

maybe i have more in common with female INTPs?


This is Scary
 

Wisp

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#14
Auburn is male.

Anyways... my post was beautiful! I think I'm getting heady from excitement...


But Auburn, defining Fi as your moral conscience, draws an interesting parallel. Ti plays much the same role, acting as a sort of logical conscience, preventing you from believing in illogic (or immoral activities, the way the function views them as the same). This would explain all of an INTPs intolerance for inaccuracy, because, for them, it is like being IMMORAL!

Anyways, this would make INTJs even MORE like robots, (Ni, Te,... Ti is near the bottom), beause they DON'T have that intellectual conscience, at least not on a highly manifested level.

=P
 
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#15
but if some INTPs have strong Fe's at a younger age, do we become Full INFPs as we get older?
 

Auburn

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#16
but if some INTPs have strong Fe's at a younger age, do we become Full INFPs as we get older?
According to the theory, it's impossible to change your type. Your dominant and auxiliary (second) functions stay the same throughout your lifetime, although one can learn to use the other functions very well.

Also, to be INFP means to have Fi-Ne as the primary axis. Some INTPs have developed Fe, true, but this is not the same as Fi. The two are very different.
 

Wisp

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#17
It's like the difference between an INTP and an INTJ. An INTP has Ti dominant, and an INTJ has Te auxiliary.

Our internal organization, and freedom of logic (thanks to Ne as well), versus the INTJs propensity for organization, or the arrangement of the world to the inner model. We arrange our minds to our inner model.
 

Weliddryn

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#18
@Seducer & Weliddryn

The MBTI four letter code is based on the 8 Jungian functions. In the MBTI, the eight preferences are paired against each other in such a way that it makes it seem like you can't have both - that it's either one or the other.

However, cognitively speaking, this in far from true. I consider myself as having "Ti-Ne, Fe" which means my primary axis is made up of a Ti-Ne partnership. The Fe is right behind the other two and often works together with Ne as well.

An INTP's cognitive functions are most commonly accepted as being Ti-Ne-Si-Fe. This means that by the time an INTP reaches full development, which is said to be middle-age or so, he should have a fully working Ti and Fe function. So, for instance, an elderly INTP who doesn't understand the jungian functions and who takes the MBTI for the first time, might be extremely confused between being INTP and INFP because he has a fully developed T function and also a fully developed F function. The test is making him choose one or the other, and so it leaves him confounded.

From what you've both posted, I'm thinking your emotions sound more extroverted than introverted (very much like my own). Art is often the extroversion of ones emotions - the manifestation of them. You may very well be INTPs, but just INTPs with developed Fe functions.


Disclaimer: The above is nothing more than the naiive ramblings of someone with no formal psychological education. :D:o
Thank you for the time and thought put into this post, but for me, it does not concern me too much whether I am an INTP or INFP or any other type of MBTI personality.

And as for being more extroverted with my emotions, that is one of the things that confuses me. When I construct a piece, I am normally feeling my typical void- nothing.

hm... I'm done here.
 

Chimera

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#19
Thank you for the time and thought put into this post, but for me, it does not concern me too much whether I am an INTP or INFP or any other type of MBTI personality.

That's something I've realized as well. It doesn't really bother me that I don't really fit in with one specific type. For a while I was annoyed 'cause I couldn't figure out if I was INTP, INFP, or INFJ. I read up on the functions, took multiple tests...but then I figured out, it wasn't so much about learning more about myself, it was more about finding somewhere to "belong".
As soon as I realized that, I lost interest. Through reading up on MBTI, I may have unlocked a few more areas of myself that I didn't quite know existed before, and am somewhat able to describe them using functions that others can recognize, but...other than that, it's not very important to me.
MBTI is still a theory, after all.

[/chimera's "me" time]

 

Perseus

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#20
Alright, so I would especially like to invite our fellow INFPs into this thread to possibly give more insight into the differences and similarities between Ti and Fi. :D:o

As INTPs, our Ti function is our dominant, and our Fi function is often nonexistent - theoretically being our least developed function. The two are on opposite poles of our personality, however upon more carefully comparing the two functions side by side, I've noticed that they resemble each other very much!

Here are some definitions of Ti and Fi to help start this thread:
Below is a quote from Linda V. Berens, an MBTI author and expert.

Now, the following is one of the best quotes I've ever heard regarding the nature of the Fi function, written by an INFP here on the forum: Snail :D

Does anyone else see the similarities? In my mind, it's almost as if the Fi function is like a Ti function who's focus has instead shifted inwardly to one's own personal value system. I understand the Ti function quite well, but am curious as to what exactly the Fi functions is.

Seeing as how INFPs are dominant Fi, are there any INFPs out there who could provide some insight?
What is your Perception rating? You might be using Perception as a primary process. In this case an INTP displays the behaviour of the written down Questor INFP. This makes me think that the allocations are wrong and the whole system is not flawed but limited in its usefulness.
 
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#22
Ti vs. Fi = internal logic vs. internal desire

The question is: why do we desire logic? I can't imagine an INTP truly caring about logical consistency without a little help from Fi to give them a sense of purpose.

I think the INTP default order of functions (Ti, Ne, Si...) seems to describe an overly robotic persona. I prefer to think we are Ti, Ne, Fi... instead, although perhaps that's because I'm almost INTJ.
 
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#23
And I almost always hate authority. I hate doing things for other people. It's hard for me to see good in all people (an important INFP characteristic)
Is that an important INFP characteristic?

It's hard for me to see the good in people. And I hate authority and generally don't care about doing things for other people. My INTP husband on the other hand likes doing things for other people, and tends to see the good where I see the bad in people.

If it wasn't obvious, I'm an INFP.
 

Jordan~

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#24
I'm pretty sure the tertiary and inferior functions are variable - in me, I think they're Ni and Fi respectively.

I hate authority, as well, and it's hard for me to see the good in people, and I generally don't care about doing things for other people - perhaps I'm a bit of an INFP.
 

Auburn

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#25
oy.... x_x
we could really use an MBTI expert in this thread...

Um, I think that not being able to find good in people is actually a strong indicator of Fi. If I'm not mistaken, Fi is a judge of character, and the one to discern people's motives behind their actions. For this reason, it is Fi that will discern whether one's actions are for selfish motives, and is therefore a function that can be very skeptical and not trusting of people.

Also, not liking authority is a trait both INTPs and INFPs share, as well as many other types. It is not an indicator of INFP behavior only.
 

Jordan~

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#26
Maybe I'm Ti, Ne, Fi, Ni or something, then... The Ti/Fi conflict would explain a lot.
 

Ermine

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#27
Ti vs. Fi = internal logic vs. internal desire

The question is: why do we desire logic? I can't imagine an INTP truly caring about logical consistency without a little help from Fi to give them a sense of purpose.

I think the INTP default order of functions (Ti, Ne, Si...) seems to describe an overly robotic persona. I prefer to think we are Ti, Ne, Fi... instead, although perhaps that's because I'm almost INTJ.
Hmm. According to the 8 functions test, I have Ne, Ti, Ni, then Fi, and I'm nowhere near being an INTJ. Perhaps all introverted functions are more familiar and easy for us because we're introverted overall?
 
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#28
Hmm. According to the 8 functions test, I have Ne, Ti, Ni, then Fi, and I'm nowhere near being an INTJ. Perhaps all introverted functions are more familiar and easy for us because we're introverted overall?
Yeah, I think so. All of my introverted ones are quite developed. I mentioned INTJ 'cause their 3rd function is supposed to be Fi.
 

cheese

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#29
Auburn:
I think Fi DOES find it hard to see good in people, precisely because they are good readers of character. Most people's motivations are impure in some way, and Fi senses this and reacts negatively to it. Fe (INTP's inferior function) is much more likely to see the good, as Fe likes to keep people happy - connecting, taking care of, doing the "right thing" by people etc. Fe wants harmonious community, Fi wants purity of character.
 
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#30
Auburn:
I think Fi DOES find it hard to see good in people, precisely because they are good readers of character. Most people's motivations are impure in some way, and Fi senses this and reacts negatively to it. Fe (INTP's inferior function) is much more likely to see the good, as Fe likes to keep people happy - connecting, taking care of, doing the "right thing" by people etc. Fe wants harmonious community, Fi wants purity of character.
I would say this is accurate.
 

Toad

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#31
Is an INFP incapable of being logical? I don't think so. Is an INTP incapable of being bias when making a decision? No.

I think I am an INFP. I long denied it because I thought that an F type would be illogical and too emotional. But I realize that inside, I do feel a lot of emotion. I was fooled into thinking that I was T because I don't SHOW any emotion. But that's just because I am introverted.

I refuse to join the INFP forum though. Their forum is just way too bright for me. Reminds me of the INTPc forum.
 

louiesgonnadie

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#32
Would Fi basically manifest in a situation where someone finds a joke directed towards, say, a mentally challenged person demeaning, since they can't cognitively function (although it would depend on the context of the joke).

Or needing passion to generate motivation to become interested in something?

If so, maybe I'm Fi-dom? Hmm...
 

snafupants

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#33
Haha old thread. Well, both are inner judging functions but Fi is concerned with personal values and tastes whereas Ti is concerned with independently analyzing and sub/categorizing data. There seems to be greater confusion between Ti and Ni than Fi and Ti among most amateur typology nuts. :phear:
 

louiesgonnadie

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#34
Haha old thread. Well, both are inner judging functions but Fi is concerned with personal values and tastes whereas Ti is concerned with independently analyzing and sub/categorizing data. There seems to be greater confusion between Ti and Ni than Fi and Ti among most amateur typology nuts. :phear:
I mean I do have a lot of moments where i independently analyze data, even though I always like external validation, or insight, but a nagging part of me always questions it....just like how I started questioning my Ti-dom-ness (or whatever, heh)

I'm sure there are a lot of INTPs that question their type, though, are there?
 

NTJ

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#37
I was answering to the post #32, I didn't see the one below, would've quoted it. I am unsure if it's inferior or not, though if your Fe was dominant, you'd likely express your thoughts and make an attempt to make the person feel ashamed, guilty, etc.. Maybe you've just well developed Fe?

But if that's your picture on the left, you've INTP eyes.
 

scorpiomover

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#38
@echoplex

The question is: why do we desire logic? I can't imagine an INTP truly caring about logical consistency without a little help from Fi to give them a sense of purpose.
I used to think that INTPs desire logic as well, until I noticed here, that a lot of comedians are typed as INTPs, and everything I'd seen discussed about understanding humour, was that humour was always considered illogical. What humou and logic have in common, is that everyone acknowledges that they both have RULES. INTPs love rules, because Ti needs rules of a system, to spot the inconsistencies according to the rules. Like spotting when someone else is cheating at Monopoly. If you don't know the rules of Monopoly, you can't tell when someone is cheating.

I think the INTP default order of functions (Ti, Ne, Si...) seems to describe an overly robotic persona. I prefer to think we are Ti, Ne, Fi... instead, although perhaps that's because I'm almost INTJ.
Interesting idea. But then, anyone with tertiary Fe/Fi, would automatically be an overly robotic persona, which would include ISTPs, ENTJs, and ESTJs as well, and all of them come across as much more human than INTPs.

Schools used to teach social skills and empathy, via lessons in manners, etiquette, studying literature and studying the arts, especially music, and not so much on maths and science. So INTPs had some training dealing with people. In addition, INTPs had a natural affinity with maths, science, etc, while most people had no understanding of that. So INTPs' abilities stood out as something to be valued, and so they were given leeway for not being perfect in their social skills. So they were often considered eccentric, but brilliant, and thus any social faux pas were usually overlooked.

These days, schools teach a lot of maths, science, economics, etc, things that INTPs pick up anyway, and no longer teach lessons in the subjects mentioned above that encouraged social skills and empathy. As a result, the things that INTPs are naturally good at, other people are trained in, and so don't discern an obvious advantage to being an INTP, and so are not given any slack. That, combined with lack of training in social skills and empathy, leaves INTPs appearing to be not good with people, and at the same time, appearing to not offer any reason to cut them any slack for it either. Thus, coming off as unreasonably robotic.

All down to the school system.

@Jordan~

I hate authority, as well, and it's hard for me to see the good in people, and I generally don't care about doing things for other people - perhaps I'm a bit of an INFP.
That's a pretty common response for young INTPs. Then as we get older and have more experiences, our Ne gets more and more experience of others, which our Ti uses to understand people better, and eventually, we come to understand the reasons that authority exists, and see it as a useful tool for society. Same happens with seeing the good in people, and doing things for other people.

@cheese

Auburn:
I think Fi DOES find it hard to see good in people, precisely because they are good readers of character. Most people's motivations are impure in some way, and Fi senses this and reacts negatively to it. Fe (INTP's inferior function) is much more likely to see the good, as Fe likes to keep people happy - connecting, taking care of, doing the "right thing" by people etc. Fe wants harmonious community, Fi wants purity of character.
The behaviour of INFJs and ENFJs disagrees.

Fe does want harmonious community. But when they don't get it, even in the slightest regard, even when it's irrational to require it, and counter-productive, boy, do NFJs blow a fuse, and they will happily make a public scene to make that point.

NFJs want YOU to be nice to other people, including themselves.

Fi does want integrity of character. But only on those values that the INFP values. When an INFP comes across something that someone else says, that violates the INFP's values, they go nuts over it, even if it makes perfect sense in terms of the values of the other person.

INFPs want to everything to be consistent with THEIR values.
 

louiesgonnadie

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#39
I was answering to the post #32, I didn't see the one below, would've quoted it. I am unsure if it's inferior or not, though if your Fe was dominant, you'd likely express your thoughts and make an attempt to make the person feel ashamed, guilty, etc.. Maybe you've just well developed Fe?

But if that's your picture on the left, you've INTP eyes.
DUDE THAT'S LOUIS C.K.

Lol.
 

louiesgonnadie

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#40
@echoplex

I used to think that INTPs desire logic as well, until I noticed here, that a lot of comedians are typed as INTPs, and everything I'd seen discussed about understanding humour, was that humour was always considered illogical. What humou and logic have in common, is that everyone acknowledges that they both have RULES. INTPs love rules, because Ti needs rules of a system, to spot the inconsistencies according to the rules. Like spotting when someone else is cheating at Monopoly. If you don't know the rules of Monopoly, you can't tell when someone is cheating.

Interesting idea. But then, anyone with tertiary Fe/Fi, would automatically be an overly robotic persona, which would include ISTPs, ENTJs, and ESTJs as well, and all of them come across as much more human than INTPs.

Schools used to teach social skills and empathy, via lessons in manners, etiquette, studying literature and studying the arts, especially music, and not so much on maths and science. So INTPs had some training dealing with people. In addition, INTPs had a natural affinity with maths, science, etc, while most people had no understanding of that. So INTPs' abilities stood out as something to be valued, and so they were given leeway for not being perfect in their social skills. So they were often considered eccentric, but brilliant, and thus any social faux pas were usually overlooked.

These days, schools teach a lot of maths, science, economics, etc, things that INTPs pick up anyway, and no longer teach lessons in the subjects mentioned above that encouraged social skills and empathy. As a result, the things that INTPs are naturally good at, other people are trained in, and so don't discern an obvious advantage to being an INTP, and so are not given any slack. That, combined with lack of training in social skills and empathy, leaves INTPs appearing to be not good with people, and at the same time, appearing to not offer any reason to cut them any slack for it either. Thus, coming off as unreasonably robotic.

All down to the school system.

@Jordan~

That's a pretty common response for young INTPs. Then as we get older and have more experiences, our Ne gets more and more experience of others, which our Ti uses to understand people better, and eventually, we come to understand the reasons that authority exists, and see it as a useful tool for society. Same happens with seeing the good in people, and doing things for other people.

@cheese

The behaviour of INFJs and ENFJs disagrees.

Fe does want harmonious community. But when they don't get it, even in the slightest regard, even when it's irrational to require it, and counter-productive, boy, do NFJs blow a fuse, and they will happily make a public scene to make that point.

NFJs want YOU to be nice to other people, including themselves.

Fi does want integrity of character. But only on those values that the INFP values. When an INFP comes across something that someone else says, that violates the INFP's values, they go nuts over it, even if it makes perfect sense in terms of the values of the other person.

INFPs want to everything to be consistent with THEIR values.
I think the whole "social skill" thing and being warm, and all, is kind of an INTP stereotype - I'm likely to be one, and I can be very warm if I love someone deeply.

Then again, inferior Fe tends to sometimes correlate with acting hype, and even childish in some cases during a relationship. Hmm.
 
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#42
Alright, so I would especially like to invite our fellow INFPs into this thread to possibly give more insight into the differences and similarities between Ti and Fi. :D:o

As INTPs, our Ti function is our dominant, and our Fi function is often nonexistent - theoretically being our least developed function. The two are on opposite poles of our personality, however upon more carefully comparing the two functions side by side, I've noticed that they resemble each other very much!

Here are some definitions of Ti and Fi to help start this thread:
Below is a quote from Linda V. Berens, an MBTI author and expert.

Now, the following is one of the best quotes I've ever heard regarding the nature of the Fi function, written by an INFP here on the forum: Snail :D

Does anyone else see the similarities? In my mind, it's almost as if the Fi function is like a Ti function who's focus has instead shifted inwardly to one's own personal value system. I understand the Ti function quite well, but am curious as to what exactly the Fi functions is.

Seeing as how INFPs are dominant Fi, are there any INFPs out there who could provide some insight?
I believe they work very similarily. It's just that one is grounded in feeling and values, the other in logic and principles.

Here is a quote from personalityjunkie.com in the INFP profile:

“My inner values and feelings (Fi) are like a building, a structure of affections that inform my worldview. This involves an inner love for certain things, and an inner repulsion for other things. My values and feelings form “blocks” of varying hardness, depending on how strongly I feel about them; the stronger ones are more resilient…I constantly discover more about the structure as I go, and what I should change to make it better. For example, I didn’t have to factually discern a respect for human dignity; I simply found myself in situations where people did not respect human dignity, and it made me angry — I found out that I hate bullying.”
The 'blocks of varying hardness' sounds somewhat similar to Ti working with probabilities to assign varying degrees of truth or correctness. The higher the probability, the stronger or denser the 'block' feels.


Also, Fi tends to judge things in terms of morally right/wrong and good/bad. Whereas Ti tends to judge things in terms of logically right/wrong and correct/incorrect.
 
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#43
I'm currently having a hard time seeing the difference between Ti and Fi, which is why I joined this forum. It seems that people say the difference is between objective truth and logic vs. subjective truth and value judgments. But here is my problem. I believe objective truth encompasses subjective truth, and that values are objective (because relativism is logically absurd.) I hate the whole "my truth, your truth" attitude. But I also hate the attitude that logic and objectivity are emotionally insignificant. Rather, it is our emotions that should conform and be subject to the objective truth, not blind us to it; but neither should we be robotic about something as amazing and beautiful as truth. Do you see my problem? Emotion and reason are both real things, reason rules over emotion in a healthy person but does not extinguish it either.
 

EyeSeeCold

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#44
I'm currently having a hard time seeing the difference between Ti and Fi, which is why I joined this forum. It seems that people say the difference is between objective truth and logic vs. subjective truth and value judgments. But here is my problem. I believe objective truth encompasses subjective truth, and that values are objective (because relativism is logically absurd.) I hate the whole "my truth, your truth" attitude. But I also hate the attitude that logic and objectivity are emotionally insignificant. Rather, it is our emotions that should conform and be subject to the objective truth, not blind us to it; but neither should we be robotic about something as amazing and beautiful as truth. Do you see my problem? Emotion and reason are both real things, reason rules over emotion in a healthy person but does not extinguish it either.
Hey there and welcome to the forum. :)

When it comes to reasoning I don't think the F functions render F types slaves to their emotions, I think it's more about what sets of data do they work with. Fi in particular works with intimate data: I've known this person all my life or I lived in that neighborhood since a child or I've come to know the underlying motivations and tendencies at play in people and in the universe -- therefore I know what to expect, what's most likely, and what's unlikely. If I'm wrong it's because information was hidden from me, or due to natural limitations I was unable to see the whole picture, or I mistook my personal truths for universal truths.


Ti has shortcomings as well, it works with superficial data that ignores the ability of things to transcend their facts such as with statistics or theories(not to say all or only Ti types are professionals). At worst it pegs objects to stereotypes and believes itself to know the whole truth, filling gaps of knowledge with a belief in the method.


This was a WIP of mine for a function comparison thread but I suppose it can stay here for now:

Ti|Fi
Ji is concerned with content that is not readily available and requires a human element(psychic introversion) to see the connections and meanings.

For Ti this means the reasoning of things based on static or articulable properties, there is an analytical drive to strip reality of gratuitous elements and reduce it to a more lucid and precise one.

Fi reasons according to properties in a similar way except these are based on intimations -- in effect they are personal truths about a subject, Fi is driven towards a holistic synthesis of reality because it all comes back to what they experience from the gut as true.

They won't necessarily disagree but since they approach knowledge differently it may pose a moral problem such as Ti valuing the society over the individual or vice verse for Fi depending on the topic in question. In the end they both rely on tendencies and as rational judgment functions they both fill in the void with assumptive beliefs in their respective reasoning approaches.
 
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smithcommajohn

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#45
Welcome, realbacteria.

I've struggled with this as well. I've gone through stages where I think I must be INFP, because my Fi is really just as strong as my Ti (stronger, even).

I forget where I tested this because it was literally years ago, but my function strengths came out like this: Ne Fi Ni Ti Se Si Te Fe. It's hard to make an MBTI type from that mess, but Ti Ne Si Fe (INTP) and Fi Ne Si Te (INFP) are both viable. How we learn to use our functions changes over time, so perhaps that's the reason why tests can't tell us our life story. If I tested them again today, they might be different.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#46
I just did a function test and I got Si as the lowest and Te as the second lowest and people say I am an ISTJ um ok.

Fe and Ti were after that, then were the rest however I would say that if Si and Te are so low then Ne and Fi would be the highest right?
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#47
I am Fi not Ti because I dont make sense I do what I want

my only Si was a storehouse of familiar people that I know
 

ivan

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#48
Alright, so I would especially like to invite our fellow INFPs into this thread to possibly give more insight into the differences and similarities between Ti and Fi. :D:o

As INTPs, our Ti function is our dominant, and our Fi function is often nonexistent - theoretically being our least developed function. The two are on opposite poles of our personality, however upon more carefully comparing the two functions side by side, I've noticed that they resemble each other very much!

Here are some definitions of Ti and Fi to help start this thread:
Below is a quote from Linda V. Berens, an MBTI author and expert.

Now, the following is one of the best quotes I've ever heard regarding the nature of the Fi function, written by an INFP here on the forum: Snail :D

Does anyone else see the similarities? In my mind, it's almost as if the Fi function is like a Ti function who's focus has instead shifted inwardly to one's own personal value system. I understand the Ti function quite well, but am curious as to what exactly the Fi functions is.

Seeing as how INFPs are dominant Fi, are there any INFPs out there who could provide some insight?
What exactly does it mean by value? What would be different way to describe that word? What exactly influence Fi decision making? ex, chemical change in lungs?
 

Auburn

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#49
Oh wow, a blast from the past.

A succinct way to describe Fi is as an introverted judgment function which is intimately connected to the human emotional register.

The emotional register, generally, is the limbic system and the somatic experience of the body; the main bias of which is life.

Thus, Fi looks for information about right and wrong (its criteria for judgment) within the decontextualized essence of human instinct. That's why it often comes to 'axiomatic' (a trait of Ji) conclusions such as "all life is to be preserved" and so on.

Hence many Fi vegeterians or vegans... as well as advocates of plant rights, and eco-friendly approaches. Fi is unconventional in its value-system, because it calls from a rather timeless place for its source of ethical "truth": the human body itself and what it tells them.

Granted each Fi user will have a different somatic experience, and different decisions based on that emotional registration, which is why Fi morality can be as varied as Ti principles.

The opposite is the case with Fe, which gathers (or at least defines) its ethical sense based on how human nature plays itself out societally, and what rules of conduct mark themselves necessary by the interplay between egos and personalities.
 

QuickTwist

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#50
Of the descriptions, Ti is a bit robotic and Fi is a bit too emotional. At the same time I can identify with both.

Here are some things people said about me on paper when I was going to day treatment (for depression) and I'll let you decide (Auburn) if you think this is more Ti or Fi since I cannot choose between INTP, INTJ, ISTP and ISFP.

Respectful
Highly Articulate
Introspective
Intelligent
Determined
Brave
Individualistic

Every person said one of these things about me.

I spent 6 hours a day for 15 days with these people.
 
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