Ti + Fi = What the hell?

[nexion]

Basically, I want to know what would happen if the Fi were allowed to develop to a point where it might actually, in some rare cases, have dominance over Ti. It seems to me that it would just cause internal strife. Let's say someone were thinking on a subject, but instead of doing so with his Ti, he did so with his Fi. Then, later, when he comes to the same subject again, the information would be processed by the Ti, which, being that the T and F are dichotomous, I would assume would quite possibly give conflicting and contradictory diagnoses.

Basically, I have been somewhat to severely confused as of late, and not only due to my thinking on many conflicting ideas. I wonder if a dominance issue between the Ti and Fi could possibly explain the discrepancy. Yes, I know that Fi is the inferior and least developed function of the type, but is it at least possible? Or perhaps my extreme confusion could be based on the possible contradictions of the data itself and not on how that data is interpreted.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Yeah, I have been noted of my almost complete ignorance on the subject. hehe.

 

[SpaceYeti]

I don't understand how the Fi works.

 

[nexion]

Read the spoiler:

INTP Forum

 

[The Frood]

I'm pretty sure that for INTP's it was Ti Ne Si Fe... and that Fi isn't really there in the conscious mind. or do you mean Fe?

Either way, I suggest reading this thread

 

[nexion]

I'm pretty sure that for INTP's it was Ti Ne Si Fe... and that Fi isn't really there in the conscious mind. or do you mean Fe?

Either way, I suggest reading this thread

Oh God, I feel so stupid now....

 

[nexion]

I'm pretty sure that for INTP's it was Ti Ne Si Fe... and that Fi isn't really there in the conscious mind. or do you mean Fe?

Either way, I suggest reading this thread

I feel Fe rarely at all, ever. But I somehow feel driven to believe that there is Fi somewhere... all I need to fix this is knowledge. Yes! I shall research heavily on the subject.

 

[Philosophyking87]

Yeah, supposedly INTP's aren't supposed to have a developed Fi, as it's an unconscious mental process (supposedly). But who knows, I sometimes feel that I might some Fi processing somewhere in the back of my mind, which really interferes with my thinking. But this doesn't happen all the time, just when I'm thinking of things with emotional associations. For example, I grew up poor. Therefore, I get really passionate and worked up about how it's wrong for poverty to be ignored. When this happens, my feeling side can start interfering with my damn Ti, and I eventually lose rationality on some level. Quite annoying.

I personally don't think it's impossible, or unlikely, but I really couldn't say if it's actually Fi that's causing this interference. And yeah, Fe is a process which hardly manifests itself with many INTP's, as far as I've seen. It tends to be the least developed in most people.

 

[nexion]

I have been studying the cognitive functions to a degree and tend to do so more. One peculiar thing I have noticed is that INTJ's have Fi as their tertiary trait. I have also noticed, however, that none of the personality types have both Ti and Fi in their functions.

Ugh... I'm not sure. I will research some more.

 

[Kokoro]

One peculiar thing I have noticed is that INTJ's have Fi as their tertiary trait.

Why is that peculiar?

I have also noticed, however, that none of the personality types have both Ti and Fi in their functions.

Of course not. Within the MBTI theory, having both Ti and Fi would exclude you from having an extraverted judging function. This should be extremely obvious if you have been studying them... at least, the way I see it.

Maybe I'm reading what you said wrong, but it is coming across to me like the quoted material is some strange concept that you have discovered or something. Is that the case?

 

[The Frood]

I have also noticed, however, that none of the personality types have both Ti and Fi in their functions.

I think because Ti and Fe are linked, like Ne and Si, I'm not sure, but I think all the functions are linked this way with their suppressive functions.

@philosophyking
What you describe sounds more like Fe to me.
Seeing as Fe is our inferior function, and has a suppressive relationship with our dominant function Ti, it only makes sense that it would be least developed, but I wouldn't go so far to say that it "hardly" manifests itself.

 

[nexion]

Why is that peculiar?



Of course not. Within the MBTI theory, having both Ti and Fi would exclude you from having an extraverted judging function. This should be extremely obvious if you have been studying them... at least, the way I see it.

Maybe I'm reading what you said wrong, but it is coming across to me like the quoted material is some strange concept that you have discovered or something. Is that the case?

No, not at all. I was merely mentioning it as I was thinking on the subject. And, trust me, I would never call MBTI perfect, but I know that the psychologists who dedicate their lives to this stuff know so much more about it than I could probably ever hope to know. Anyway... I'm done with this for now. I think I'm somewhat disoriented.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Your F is that little irrational voice in the back of your head that you give a sandwich and tell to go watch TV because the grown ups are talking.

 

[nexion]

I have no fucking clue.

 

[Cavallier]

^Not at this time but you are developing a clue yes? That's the whole point in my estimation. Though once you have a clue you discover that it's doesn't matter anyway.

 

[typus]

But who knows, I sometimes feel that I might some Fi processing somewhere in the back of my mind, which really interferes with my thinking. But this doesn't happen all the time, just when I'm thinking of things with emotional associations. For example, I grew up poor. Therefore, I get really passionate and worked up about how it's wrong for poverty to be ignored. When this happens, my feeling side can start interfering with my damn Ti, and I eventually lose rationality on some level. Quite annoying.

That sounds like Si to me

 

[walfin]

I often test very high on Fi and don't think it's necessarily abnormal.

Someone else once told me that Fi manifests itself in INTPs that have been through a crisis before. I don't know about that, you can make your own judgment call.

Sure there is conflict, it can cause infinite loops. Then again Fi sometimes helps break out of Ti infinite loops.

And sure, MBTI theory doesn't allow for Ti & Fi simultaneously. But it is a theory, after all, and odd specimens of humans sure can exist.

 

[Words]

Would just like to point out that Fe can be internal focused but always orients itself extravertedly. Fe can be selfish.

 

[Philosophyking87]

That sounds like Si to me

I definitely think Si is there, but it's more than just Si, because there's actual feelings associated with entire matter. It's Si, because I have memories of such poverty, but it's some feeling function when I become passionate about the entire deal, like some kind of advocate crying about morals and principles. Maybe it's Fe and Si, instead of Fi?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I definitely think Si is there, but it's more than just Si, because there's actual feelings associated with entire matter. It's Si, because I have memories of such poverty, but it's some feeling function when I become passionate about the entire deal, like some kind of advocate crying about morals and principles. Maybe it's Fe and Si, instead of Fi?

It's definitely Si+Fe.

I don't think Fi could ever manually develop out of its dormant state to be dominant over Ti. I think if you consistently acted according to your values, beliefs and feelings and subdued your objective thinking to an extreme point, eventually Si would kick in and you would be reminded that one of your actions is unsmart and in which case Ti would regain its control.

Imo it would take a traumatizing event to alter your natural functions, otherwise you would just be distorting them.

If you meant Fe becoming dominant, it's definitely possible, but it would take a heavy toll on your mental state. Think of being an amusement park meet 'n' greeter during the peak of summer. It gets to a point where you're just a robot and you end up either hugely distressed or you break down completely.

 

[nexion]

I did take a cognitive function test for the sake of it, being that such is probably more precise than MBTI, and while my most dominant functions were Ti and Ne, the following ones were Ni, Fi, and Te, in that order. Both Se and Si, and, of course, Fe, were barely if ever used.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

^ link? I'm curious.

 

[nexion]

http://www.keys2cognition.com/explore.htm

 

[nexion]

But... whatever. I studied a little more about the cognitive functions and think what I was talking about in the OP is more closely related to Ni rather than Fi.

 

[Words]

I definitely think Si is there, but it's more than just Si, because there's actual feelings associated with entire matter. It's Si, because I have memories of such poverty, but it's some feeling function when I become passionate about the entire deal, like some kind of advocate crying about morals and principles. Maybe it's Fe and Si, instead of Fi?

Now, what if there are feelings associated with a logical model? Would that be Fe-Ti?

I think its a common understanding that INTP's tend to "attach" themselves to their personal logic. Would this "attachment" be considered a value?

Here's what I think: Our Four Functions are what we subconsciously identify as ourselves. Because of this "personal" connection, we become aggravated when they are at conflict with another external factor. The higher it is in the hierarchy, the more attached we are to it. The attachment is not necessarily joined with a Feeling function and the negative reaction is some sort of psychological self-stabilizing mechanism.

 

[metaphy]

my data

(Ti) *********************************************** (47.3)
(Fi) *********************************************** (47.3)
(Ne) ****************************************** (42.6)
(Ni) ******************************** (32.7)

 

[nexion]

And you are an INTP, correct? You seem to be showing functions similar to mine that mix INTP and INTJ traits.

 

[metaphy]

INTP and INFP mixed, Ti/Fi Ne. Most tests showed that I am an INTP.

 

[typus]

INTP and INFP mixed, Ti/Fi Ne. Most tests showed that I am an INTP.

I'm sure this is a FiNe SiTe for INFP:s as well!

Spoiler

okay maybe it's just me but i thought that was really funny. but metaphy, don't just trust the tests, also you're not a mix between INTP and INFP. it's just that it's pretty hard to type yourself

 

[nexion]

I'm sure this is a FiNe SiTe for INFP:s as well!

Spoiler

okay maybe it's just me but i thought that was really funny. but metaphy, don't just trust the tests, also you're not a mix between INTP and INFP. it's just that it's pretty hard to type yourself

It took me like, a minute to get that.

 

[nexion]

What I though was Fi in the OP was actually Ni + a tiny bit of Fi. If anyone cares...

The OP was also quite misleading because I have no idea how to describe such a feeling with words... I usually reserve this kind of shit for some deep, depressing music or dark abstract arts. But even that leaves it terribly indescribed. Ti desire to have everything neat and concise + Ni transcendent realizations + Fi mass of feelings in head = hell. It sucks.

 

[Puffy]

I'm pretty sure typology does not allow room for one to have Fi and Ti, you are likely confusing the function with something else or have misunderstood Fe. Sure you can say it's just a theory, but if it is the best we have, then what is our observation in comparison?

 

[typus]

Sure you can say it's just a theory, but if it is the best we have, then what is our observation in comparison?

I thought you were side by side with Blobdude when it came to epistemology?

 

[Puffy]

Touche, you're right very hypocritical of me.

 

[nexion]

I'm pretty sure typology does not allow room for one to have Fi and Ti, you are likely confusing the function with something else or have misunderstood Fe. Sure you can say it's just a theory, but if it is the best we have, then what is our observation in comparison?

It is a theory. By definition, it may not always hold true.