The Swine Flu...

[Sapphire Harp]

I figure we'll be talking about this a bit, so here's the thread! Personally, I think it's a terrible nickname; whoever came up with it should be embarrassed.

Basic info at the Center For Disease Control

As of the time I'm writing, the United States has 40 confirmed cases, 26 confirmed cases in Mexico, and 10 more confirmed cases worldwide. There are 2,000 hospitalizations and 150 deaths in Mexico suspected to be related to the virus.

When listening to the news you believe that the hype around 'swine fever' is probably being exaggerated by pharmaceutical companies to boost their sales of anti-virals to the paranoid West.

That's awesome! I live in Texas and I work at a middle school. My principal sent the secretary out to buy massive amounts of hand sanitizer and things like that for the school. It's mass hysteria. But when you look at how many cases are actually out there, it's pretty small. CNN is currently reporting 73 cases worldwide. 73 out of how many billions of people?

In all likelihood, regular old flu will kill thousands more people in the US this year than swine flu.

CDC info about influenza states, as a whole, there are an estimated 36,000 annual deaths and 200,000 hospitalizations from influenza. Most deaths seem to be people age 65 or older.

This particular influenza strain is acting different, as most of the suspected fatalities are people between the ages of 25 and 50.

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon warned on Monday that the virus "could cause a new influenza pandemic". "It could be mild in its effect or potentially be severe," he said.

"We don't know yet which way it will go, but we are concerned that in Mexico most of those who died were young and healthy adults."
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So, you know... There may be more to this than initially suspected. It's a 'wait and see' situation. Personally, I think most of our forum is better shielded from epidemics because we're less involved in public things.
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[Deleted member 1424]

I'm feeling sick and I'm an hour from the Mexican border. Great

 

[snowqueen]

Just to be clear - my comment was on the 'you know you're an INTP' thread and was a thought that flashed through my mind when listening to the news this morning! On BBCRadio 4 there was an item where an 'anonymous doctor from Mexico' had apparently emailed the show saying the situation was much worse than the media were letting on - and I thought cynically that it was probably from someone in a pharmaceutical company. But who knows what the truth is. It's apparently not nearly as virulent as Bird Flu. The doctor on the radio was saying there have been a lot of cases in the US already but the symptoms are mild. Who knows what the truth is - just remember to wash your hands and avoid shaking hands with other people.

Sapphire's right - we probably just need to wait and see! Hope you feel better soon Adair.

 

[Tyria]

There is a lot of cause for concern because the flu is a virus and it can jump species. The spikes on the lipid coat can also change based on a number of things, so immunity against it is not guaranteed (ppl get flu shots every year). It may also be easily spread; not sure about that yet with this stain though.

 

[flow]

death count in Mexico is at 149 now, and they're even considering shutting down all public transportation. I'd say it's getting serious.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

This post could have been helpful during the 'bird flu' pandemic or the SARS scare.

If this too turns out to be nothing, C&P it for the next big outbreak that's going to kill us all.

 

[Prof_Pointless]

Like flow said, the situation in Mexico is cause for some concern. Whether it can be attributed to living conditions or if it is a more potent version of the virus I don't know.

I also had the same thought as snowqueen regarding pharmacutical(sp?) sales, namely when a guest doctor on cnn came on with a box of theraflu (or some such medicine in his hand, along with dust masks). Now he claimed that such things weren't necessary, but the almost 15second camera shot on the brand name was kinda suspicious. Taking preventative action is .. always smart, but there is definitely a bit of hysteria on some levels.

The paranoia in me also feels this is perhaps just another in a long line of smokescreen tactics to get the american people worked up over inane issues and force us to ignore the governments' increase in control over the people.

Just gonna have to wait and see what develops. /shrug

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Personally, I think most of our forum is better shielded from epidemics because we're less involved in public things.

A global pandemic (of any lethal disease) would actually be a good thing, as the resulting population loss would leave a large amount of easily accessible resources for the survivors.

 

[Felan]

A global pandemic (of any lethal disease) would actually be a good thing, as the resulting population loss would leave a large amount of easily accessible resources for the survivors.

I don't think I would like carrying that many bodies.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Why would you? Bodies are a resource, e.g. fertiliser, dog food, Halloween decorations.

 

[Kuu]

The paranoia in me also feels this is perhaps just another in a long line of smokescreen tactics to get the american people worked up over inane issues and force us to ignore the governments' increase in control over the people.

The world does not revolve around the USA, need I remind you?

A global pandemic (of any lethal disease) would actually be a good thing, as the resulting population loss would leave a large amount of easily accessible resources for the survivors.

Not to mention the disruption of the stagnated status quo.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

The world does not revolve around the USA, need I remind you?

No, but we are in a position to catch this a lot harder than anybody else... and there's more money in this country to be wasted than a lot of others?

Not to mention the disruption of the stagnated status quo.

Now, -that- would be a nice turn of events. Unfortunately, we all know the rich never die... not from a thing like this, anyway.

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[snowqueen]

Why would you? Bodies are a resource, e.g. fertiliser, dog food, Halloween decorations.

[snigger] excellent thinking, Cog!!

[goes off to work with a happy spring in her step]

 

[sagewolf]

Why would you? Bodies are a resource, e.g. fertiliser, dog food, Halloween decorations.

And I'm going to have to feed all my new furry friends who lost their owners in the pandemic. Luckily, said owners will be close at hand-- how poetic, that they should continue to care for their dogs even after death.

 

[DynamicMind]

I can't be the only one that read the news and thought "Global pandemic, cool! Wait...oh. I'm a horrible person."

...right?

 

[The Fury]

I'm somewhat oblivious to world affairs so amazingly this is the first I've heard of swine flu. I think someone was talking to me about it yesterday but I was trying to figure out who would win in a fight, James Bond or Jason Bourne.

 

[Carnap]

Not to mention the disruption of the stagnated status quo.

Yeah !!!!! I would so be on top. First thing I'd say to these nasty French "ha ! you cannot fail me because I am unable to conform to your rigidly formal paper writing system"!!

No but seriously, listen to this:

" [the paper must be] formed by a rigid frame inside which each person is free"

ahhhh.... I feel so free in my rigid frame. OH WAIT, I CAN'T MOVE MY F-ING LEG.



No but with the flu, eat healthy, guys. Boost your immune system. I never get sick, hopefully this won"t be an exception.

 

[saffyangelis]

I can't be the only one that read the news and thought "Global pandemic, cool! Wait...oh. I'm a horrible person."

...right?

Nah, you weren't the only one =P

I did spend a good part of this morning trying to explain to everyone in my class that they weren't about to die of it, and that swine was another word for pig. I think I may have scared them slightly by telling them that, as one of them immediately said "Oh my god! I had pork for tea last night!" =)

That's my good deed for the day... even if she has nightmares... *smiles innocently*

 

[bdubs]

I know when I looked at the news reports I smiled a little bit. Its fun to imagine how the same public that is sweating about 40 or so cases of the flue would react to a zombie apocalypse.

 

[Chimera]

Actually, when I first heard about it, I got the sudden urge to play Pandemic.
And then I saw this map today, and I thought something like "Aw dang...I can never infect New Zealand..."
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[Kidege]

No, but we are in a position to catch this a lot harder than anybody else... and there's more money in this country to be wasted than a lot of others?​

I keep re-reading the "harder than anybody else" bit and can't help but thinking that the country where people are actually dying has caught it harder than anybody else.


That said,

Whatever this thing is, it's being milked for all its worth by stupid politicians. Now the Mexican Secretary of Health can't even tell how many people have died from the flu. He can't tell where, when, who, he can't even tell their sex or age, much less their socioeconomic status and whether they had a previous health issue.

So we misteriously "dropped" from 150+ deceased to 7. Seven. And individual guarantees have been cancelled. Schools are closed. Meetings are but forbidden. The government has the right to get into your house without a court order. Politicians are buying sanitizing gel and face masks and exchanging them for voters cards. And according to rumors, some are toying with the idea of imposing military curfews.

The antivirals the government's supposed to have in stock? As far as we can tell they're using the old ones they bought for the aviar flu scare. The stuff is about to expire. And they just bought 400,000 doses of... of God knows what. Not even half a million for a country of 110 million people.

Let's not talk about the way the first cases were handled in federal hospitals. They became infection centers. So how come this thing is killing people almost only here? I think it's safe to say that if you are in the hospital for pneumonia and you catch the swine flu, you won't live.

We shouldn't be dying of this thing. Then again, we aren't. See the World Health Organization statements for reference. We're dying because the health system has been dismantled since the 1980s -thanks, neoliberalism-, and because 50 percent of our population is poor. This just shouldn't happen.

/end rant​

 

[Sapphire Harp]

I keep re-reading the "harder than anybody else" bit and can't help but thinking that the country where people are actually dying has caught it harder than anybody else.

Hm, you're very right. That was pretty ignorant on my part... I guess I don't count Mexico much... Bad American! Bad!

I was thinking we're second in line, though. Granted the U.S. has the medical facilities to counter it better, but too many can't afford them.

I think it was 152 suspected deaths from H1N1, 7 confirmed deaths. So, maybe those will become confirmed as lab results are accumulated, maybe not. I've seen this number connected with statements about 'young and healthy 25 to 50 year olds' dying in several places, so maybe they are integrated. We'll have to wait and see as the truth emerges out of the BS.

I, too, am a little taken aback by the extent of closures I'm hearing about - but I'm also of the opinion that it's better to take precautions early than to be lax about it and have it turn into a historical pandemic. I think I read somewhere it usually will take them around 8 months to get vaccines together - so suppressing it early may make a difference towards that?

Let's not talk about the way the first cases were handled in federal hospitals. They became infection centers. So how come this thing is killing people almost only here? I think it's safe to say that if you are in the hospital for pneumonia and you catch the swine flu, you won't live.

We shouldn't be dying of this thing. Then again, we aren't. See the World Health Organization statements for reference. We're dying because the health system has been dismantled since the 1980s -thanks, neoliberalism-, and because 50 percent of our population is poor. This just shouldn't happen.

I don't really know anything about this business, having not researched it. Do you mind passing along what you're drawing information from?

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[Carnap]

I refuse vaccinations. You do realize that they put mercury and other garbage in those vacs (autism, heavy metal poisoning).

Not something I want in my body, although I probably already have some.

http://vodpod.com/watch/1571416-dr-...hd-13swine-flu-threat-level-raised-to-level-5

The lady they are interviewing was a doctor for many years but has written books against the medical industry, etc.
It seems like conspiracy theory, but she actually is quite well informed.


PS don't be snobs, ignore the music

Another article to put that into perspective.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/04/is-swine-flu-a-bioterrorist-vi.html

it may not be a designer flu from a lab (although it could be), and if it isn't, it just goes to prove one more time how the meat industry is a breeding ground for disease (not to mention pollution, world hunger-considering the cows eat up much of the world's grain sources that could be used to feed hungry people, etc)

 

[Melkor]

Yes..I think they're now saying that swine flu can reanimate those who die by it.

In light of this, i have barricaded myself in the most creepy, darkest, largest, and least attended hospital in all of Ireland.

 

[NoID10ts]

First confirmed US swine flu death is in my hometown, Houston! I'm vomiting as I write this. Should I be concerned?

 

[bdubs]

There has been a confirmed case at my university's medical center yesterday.

 

[NoID10ts]

They have shut down three schools in my school distict today because of it. It's hysteria.

 

[phantome]

Nah, you weren't the only one =P

I did spend a good part of this morning trying to explain to everyone in my class that they weren't about to die of it, and that swine was another word for pig. I think I may have scared them slightly by telling them that, as one of them immediately said "Oh my god! I had pork for tea last night!" =)

That's my good deed for the day... even if she has nightmares... *smiles innocently*

haha CRAZY i did the same exact thing XD 'specially cuz I live in NJ, and the most recent deaths have been in NY. Half my school is convinced that they have it . ah well. hopefully this lasts a bit longer

 

[inerTia]

Well according to where I live, we have about 8 confirmed cases of h1n1 in Ontario http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/swine-porcine/surveillance-eng.php

There is also supposed to be a working anti viral, according to the Canadian page lol, I wonder how they tested this, or found out.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/swine-porcine/fs-fr_swine-eng.php

"Two antivirals that appear to be effective in treating this illness are oseltamivir (Tamiflu) and zanamivir (Relenza)."

Either way, I just read on wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_outbreak the Egyptians just killed 300,000 pigs hahaha, oh man, this is starting to get funny, I am not sure if these people understand what they are dealing with! Also some other countries banned pork imports, lol??? Shit, this is funny as hell, this is all mixed up with the actual events, so the information out there, is not quite reliable.

A global pandemic (of any lethal disease) would actually be a good thing, as the resulting population loss would leave a large amount of easily accessible resources for the survivors.

lol, I do not think any one here would mind at all

 

[FacetiousPersona]

lol, I do not think any one here would mind at all

One can not mind when dead.

 

[inerTia]

One can not mind when dead.

Well, now that is a shame now is it not?

 

[FacetiousPersona]

Well, now that is a shame now is it not?

Not for an INTP, because they're dead in emotions.

 

[inerTia]

Not for an INTP, because they're dead in emotions.

Or are they.

 

[Kidege]

I don't really know anything about this business, having not researched it. Do you mind passing along what you're drawing information from?

Sorry for taking so long to answer.

The stories about the federal hospitals mishandling the cases come from rather reliable media, such as Proceso and Jornada. They're in Spanish, but I can translate a bit.

A patient from Tabasco arrived a few days ago saying what he had, and they put in him in the emergency room, and that's where it spread, they didn't mind the diagnostic and they didn't establish a sanitary barrier (...) he died 4 days after, as well as the 12 people who were in the emergency room those days"

Testimony of a worker in the National Institute of Respiratory Illnesses. Proceso Magazine, April 26.

They won't admit any more people because this is an infection focus. People got here with a cold, with tuberculosis or with pneumonia, and they got 2 or 3 times worse with the influenza (...) people who weren't that bad got worse and died

(Another worker of the same place). Idem.

And now a quote about the state of the health system

In Mexico there was a paraestatal called Birmex (Laboratories of Biologics and Reactives of Mexico), that according to its website provided the vaccines, serum, immunoglobulin and reactives required by the public health state organisms in the Republic, and which was in the facts dismantled by Fox [the former president].

Before him, Zedillo destroyed the National Institute of Hygiene and the National Institute of Virology, which researched viral strains and designed the vaccines to fight them. Today we don't have any of this.

Jaime Aviles. Jornada. May 3rd.

There's also a lot of info about the lack of funding for public hospitals.

 

[sagewolf]

In light of this, i have barricaded myself in the most creepy, darkest, largest, and least attended hospital in all of Ireland.

I think they all tie for that auspicious honor. The HSE is fucked, although not apparently as bad as Mexico.

Ireland has one case, out of approximately 4 million people. The media are reporting on it every damn hour. The first time I heard that Ireland had its "first case of probable swine flu" I just thought "first probable case of swine flu" and went back to reading a book. Only one person has died outside Mexico (a toddler, with weaker immunity than most people), and with what Kidege is saying in consideration, most of those adult deaths can probably also be attributed to weakened immunity on the victims' parts.

Since influenza largely requires humans to spread it, the most successful strains of influenza will, by their nature, be strains which allow their host to remain ambulatory and capable of wandering around, touching things and sneezing on people to spread the virus. Therefore, strains of influenza which are not lethal will generally be more successful than strains which kill their hosts. Lethal strains develop when the hosts do not need to be ambulatory to spread the virus, i.e., when they are crowded in nose-to-tail-tip, as were the pigs in the farms where the currently famous strains developed. As were the hosts of the strains that killed millions in 1918-- in the trenches of the Western Front. Additionally, H1N1 doesn't have the ability to attack the entire body the way H5N1 did.

The great irony is that good old H1N2, the winter sniffle virus, has probably killed more people this year than swine flu has-- and it will only keep going. Apparently because it happens every year, it's not as important.

Everybody get a grip. I am getting sick of panic.

EDIT: This should probably be in the shout club, actually... take my attitude, at the very least, with a grain of salt.

 

[bdubs]

I think your attitude is fairly resonable Sagewolf. One student in my college of 50,000 has developed a "suspect" case of swine flu about 3-4 days ago. It has now been upgraded to probable about 24 hours ago. I only know this because it has been broadcast over my entire state from every major source of news that swine flu has "hit a major college". My university has responded with about 4 "informative" e-mails telling the student body not to panic/what to do in the event of catching the virus.

Up until recently I have been able to enjoy watching everyone run around in a panic from a distance, but now my entire family thinks that I am living in some sort of petrie dish thanks to the local media. This has lead to a handful of annoying phone calls where I have to explain that the one case was not in any of my classes and is currently being kept in isolation while he recovers. I find it ironic that about 15% of the student body is probably sick with cold or flu like symptoms that are a hold out from the normal central ohio flu season, yet we are freaking out over 1 student who is currently well on his way to recovering.

To poorly paraphrase sagewolf, this virus just seems to be attracting attention because its new.