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The Misanthrope Club

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#1
Who else is angry at the stupid morons we live among? The ones who've never felt real sorrow or depression in their lives. The people who have never had a deep thought in their lives.

These jokers are completely self-involved, lacking the compassion to care for anyone but their circle.

I'd say that over half the population is either overly Judgemental, selfish, stupid, or some mixture of the three.

Don't get me wrong, I love myself to, but where does it end? I can safely say that I hate the personality (or lack of...) of at least half the people in America.

Who else is bitter towards society in general, whether it be due to the suffering they caused (wittingly or not) or just out of pure disgust?
 

shoeless

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#2
it's funny, 'cause you're doing a whoooole lot of judging right now while you're simultaneously preaching against it.

i'll never understand misanthropy. i'll never understand the sense of superiority some people have over others.

you're not better than anyone. you're just different.

bitterness against society is hugely unproductive, and superiority is even worse.
 

s0nystyle

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#3
it's funny, 'cause you're doing a whoooole lot of judging right now while you're simultaneously preaching against it.

i'll never understand misanthropy. i'll never understand the sense of superiority some people have over others.

you're not better than anyone. you're just different.

bitterness against society is hugely unproductive, and superiority is even worse.
i totally agree w/ shoecute
 

Alice?

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#4
it's funny, 'cause you're doing a whoooole lot of judging right now while you're simultaneously preaching against it.

i'll never understand misanthropy. i'll never understand the sense of superiority some people have over others.

you're not better than anyone. you're just different.

bitterness against society is hugely unproductive, and superiority is even worse.
hear, hear.
 
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#5
I'm not better, I'm bitter and I feel a great disdain towards these people. Of course we were built equally, but the difference is that the people I'm discussing don't use their brains. They are almost to different. It is frustrating to see people screwing up all of the time (just look politics and religion).

Maybe it is just being around teenagers, but I have a bad taste in my mouth.
 

shoeless

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#6
here's a crazy idea -- how about you try understanding these people rather than slapping judgments around (you know, like "they don't use their brains" or "they've never had a deep thought in their lives"?).

because you have no idea what it's like to be them.
what they've been through.
what they're thinking about.
maybe they're wearing a mask.

you have no idea.

i think you'll be a lot happier once you realize that you're not an all-seeing god, and that people are really just people. try looking for the good things that people do. i think you'd be surprised at how much there really is.
 

Jesin

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#7
Hmm, the clash of two almost-extremes. :p

---

Shoeless, it seems that you've taken being relatively non-judgmental as something of an ideal, and now you dislike judgmental people. Or something. Does that seem about right?
 

s0nystyle

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#8
Hmm, the clash of two almost-extremes. :p

---

Shoeless, it seems that you've taken being relatively non-judgmental as something of an ideal, and now you dislike judgmental people. Or something. Does that seem about right?
i wouldnt say that he dislikes judgmental people, but rather he believes that they misunderstand others. There is no like or dislike in misunderstanding someone at his level
 

shoeless

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#9
Hmm, the clash of two almost-extremes. :p

---

Shoeless, it seems that you've taken being relatively non-judgmental as something of an ideal, and now you dislike judgmental people. Or something. Does that seem about right?
basically.
but it's not that i dislike judgmental people. i just dislike the act of judging. i understand that that's just the nature of some people, but i find it's often much more destructive than anything.

me, personally, i find myself almost incapable of rendering judgments in general. which makes me super open-minded and everything, so that's cool i guess, but it sucks when it comes to making any sort of decision about... anything at all. it's also opened me up to be involved with some less-than-fantastic people (for me at least). so i know it's necessary sometimes. just maybe less than people have the tendency to show now.

(edit: also, what sony said about misunderstanding (except i'm a she, btdubs). it happens way too often, and honestly, even the most minor misunderstandings in my life make me feel physically ill sometimes.)
 
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#10


Why can't we fix this instead of buying jewelry and junk food? People fail to realize or care about the bigger picture.
 

shoeless

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#11
you know, it's impossible to form a rebuttal against the starving ethiopians argument. because, you know, i agree. it's kinda fucked up where human priorities lie.

but there ARE still good people who ARE trying to help. how about we focus on them, donate to them, try to help in our own way rather than get pissed off at the people who aren't helping? but even then, honestly, you can't blame people for having their attention focused elsewhere -- realistically, if everyone in the world was advocating for africa, nothing else would get done -- and it's simply not in typical human nature for people to care about that which does not directly affect them.

that doesn't make people bad or evil or stupid. that just makes people what they are -- which is not necessarily selfish, though it sometimes is. it's just, i'd rather take care of somebody i know and have a connection with suffering in my own backyard than sit back and chill and donate money to haiti and feel superior and pompous on my nice, hemp easychair, eating my raw vegan veggie wrap and ranting about how selfish everyone is. you get the picture.

(and that's not to say i won't donate to haiti or whatever. but i'm not gonna kill myself over it either. there's simply a lot of other things i care about more, and that's just how people work.)
 
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#12
you know, it's impossible to form a rebuttal against the starving ethiopians argument. because, you know, i agree. it's kinda fucked up where human priorities lie.

but there ARE still good people who ARE trying to help. how about we focus on them, donate to them, try to help in our own way rather than get pissed off at the people who aren't helping? but even then, honestly, you can't blame people for having their attention focused elsewhere -- realistically, if everyone in the world was advocating for africa, nothing else would get done -- and it's simply not in typical human nature for people to care about that which does not directly affect them.

that doesn't make people bad or evil or stupid. that just makes people what they are -- which is not necessarily selfish, though it sometimes is. it's just, i'd rather take care of somebody i know and have a connection with suffering in my own backyard than sit back and chill and donate money to haiti and feel superior and pompous on my nice, hemp easychair, eating my raw vegan veggie wrap and ranting about how selfish everyone is. you get the picture.

(and that's not to say i won't donate to haiti or whatever. but i'm not gonna kill myself over it either. there's simply a lot of other things i care about more, and that's just how people work.)
This is how more people should be.

There are a good percentage of people I know that say things such as "screw Haiti" or that they deserved it.

The sad thing is that people aren't even aware of the situation.

To another topic. A good percentage of people seem to have very few morals. They will lie, cheat and steal to get what they want.

Things like this upset me. People are cruel. YouTube- Woman Catches Caregiver Abusing Elderly Father
 

shoeless

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#13
i can't watch the video right now. i will later.

but i understand being upset by that shit, i do, 'cause it really bugs me out too. but seriously. that's why you need to focus on the positive side of things.

to use the cliche', every cloud has a silver lining. every shadow has a light. i only use cliche's when i truly believe in them.

getting yourself stuck in the "people are bad" rut is not helpful to anyone.
 

s0nystyle

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#14
This is how more people should be.

There are a good percentage of people I know that say things such as "screw Haiti" or that they deserved it.

The sad thing is that people aren't even aware of the situation.

To another topic. A good percentage of people seem to have very few morals. They will lie, cheat and steal to get what they want.

Things like this upset me. People are cruel. YouTube- Woman Catches Caregiver Abusing Elderly Father
At your first point, it could just be because you are in high school and the people there are close-minded (i remember all i could think about in high school was girls and quiznos :o).

Back to your other topic, what's wrong with having few morals? Just because something is unethical to you does not mean it is unethical to others. Take for example the treatment of women in middle eastern countries like pakistan. If their culture believes that women should be treated unequally (or well as 2nd-class human beings) then that is their decision and we have no right in stepping in to change their believes. I feel that your ethno-centrism is convoluting your thinking. Ever heard of "different strokes for different folks?", keep that in mind when you observe the world because different cultures have different outlooks on what is ethical or unethical.

edit: Morals apply to one person, ethics apply to a large group of people ie a particular culture or society
 

s0nystyle

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#15
edit: Morals apply to one person, ethics apply to a large group of people ie a particular culture or society
 

Beat Mango

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#16
I still share your bitterness to some extent, though not in the same measure that I used to. Nowadays I just think of that quote, "don't hate the player, hate the game". I hate the conditions that make people do bad things, I hate that we have this instinct for violence and power games and selfishness. I hate that winners enjoy better and happier lives than losers, the unfairness of it. Not to mention the horrid fates some people are subjected to purely due to natural occurrences.

People like shoeless irritate me because they don't seem to comprehend even the possibility that for some people, bitterness might be a perfectly justifiable reaction to the world that they have to face every day. "People aren't better or worse, they're just different", that's just bollocks as far as I'm concerned: we give more money to some people than others, we give better opportunities to some people rather than others, we lavish more attention and status on some people than others, in lieu of which it's ridiculous to say nobody's superior.

But I do think that misanthropy should be overcome. I think having an ideal which is higher than the world, above reality, is a pretty well-proven method for doing so, whether it's Buddhism, transhumanism, Neo-Platonism or whatever else. Although it's hard when you're in high school and don't have the freedom to follow your own path.
 

shoeless

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#17
don't insult my intelligence plz. i comprehend human suffering. i comprehend bitterness as a "justifiable reaction". i understand. i do.

i just don't believe in dwelling on it or hating people because of your circumstance. i believe it can be overcome, and it often is.

also, a semi-relevant poem by edwin arlington robinson that always gets me thinking about this sort of stuff:

Whenever Richard Cory went down town,
We people on the pavement looked at him:
He was a gentleman from sole to crown,
Clean favored, and imperially slim.

And he was always quietly arrayed,
And he was always human when he talked;
But still he fluttered pulses when he said,
"Good-morning," and he glittered when he walked.

And he was rich—yes, richer than a king,
And admirably schooled in every grace:
In fine, we thought that he was everything
To make us wish that we were in his place.

So on we worked, and waited for the light,
And went without the meat, and cursed the bread;
And Richard Cory, one calm summer night,
Went home and put a bullet through his head.
 

Fukyo

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#19
I used to have misanthropic thoughts quite often, but then I had a sudden, strong shift in perspective. It's not something you can explain to others who haven't experienced it though. One thing to keep in mind is the fact that such attitudes come from a lack of perspective, either imposed by circumstances around you, or even by yourself. When you're enslaved in your (currently negative) worldview the negativity only enforces itself through a continuous loop, making your view more and more narrow as time goes by. It helps to deliberately keep an outlook on the big picture and especially to make an effort to consider things from the point of view of other people.

In the midst of thinking we're surrounded by morons, even amongst those same people there are dozens of those who think the exact same things you do.
 
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#20
Take for example the treatment of women in middle eastern countries like pakistan. If their culture believes that women should be treated unequally (or well as 2nd-class human beings) then that is their decision and we have no right in stepping in to change their believes.
Strictly speaking Pakistan is not a middle eastern country...

Second, I do agree that definitions of ethical/unethical and morality vary across cultures but there are some rights which (or at least should) hold universally. And when these rights are abused then I believe that it does become one's responsibility to step in.


Speaking on the original topic... well yea, I've been there too. Sometimes its even justified. There are a lot of messed up things in the world (I have seen my fair share :) ), but sooner or later you have to realize that anger wont solve anything (or even help). So why not let go of the anger and do what you can to help. There are a lot of people already doing that. Join them and you might get to see the other side of things. I guess I pretty much agree with what shoeless (why dont you have shoes? :slashnew:) said. Though one thing I do think is that most of humanity is selfish, and unless something affects them directly they wont give a shit about it. If you do give a shit, well why not do something about it? God knows the world could use every bit of help it can get.
 

Moocow

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#21
It really helps to think about everything that civilization has to offer. Learn to appreciate the fact that you can simply drive on smooth man-made roads in such a complex machine as a car to a store of any sort to find almost anything you could possible need.
You can travel anywhere in the world now with only a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. You can own your very own property, your own house, raise your own family, and live pretty much however you want to live, relatively safe from hostility or predators.
Think about everything radio, books, school, TV, and the internet has done for you... all your knowledge of the world and the universe.

And you get all of that and so much more because of all the great things people have achieved in their short, temporary lives before you.

Yet I'm a bit of a misanthrope because I become quite disappointed to see how everyone takes so much for granted, and their spoiled, jaded attitudes start to wear off on me as well. An example... when I see people in my biology or psychology classes sitting there texting or browsing facebook while the teacher is explaining why we are alive.
Or how about when I get accused of being a hippy because I like to hike and explore nature whenever I have the opportunity. God forbid, anyone actually pay attention to the incredibly mysterious, complex, and beautiful things that exist independent of human activity!
Or even when I'm sitting in some moderately heavy traffic with my family, and they're getting angry and frustrated because it isn't moving fast enough. Tell that to anyone who lived before the 20th century. I'm sure they'll have sooo much sympathy.

And I was raised in a well off white family, in a pretty rich part of the east coast where people really do have more dollars than brain cells, and they all want to buy their way out of living.
 

shoeless

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#22
I used to have misanthropic thoughts quite often, but then I had a sudden, strong shift in perspective. It's not something you can explain to others who haven't experienced it though. One thing to keep in mind is the fact that such attitudes come from a lack of perspective, either imposed by circumstances around you, or even by yourself. When you're enslaved in your (currently negative) worldview the negativity only enforces itself through a continuous loop, making your view more and more narrow as time goes by. It helps to deliberately keep an outlook on the big picture and especially to make an effort to consider things from the point of view of other people.

In the midst of thinking we're surrounded by morons, even amongst those same people there are dozens of those who think the exact same things you do.
this times infinity.

i didn't want to bring this up or anything, 'cause it seems like such a cop-out and it feels like it weakens my argument, but i've never always been so... you know, happiness and sunshine out my ass all the time or anything. i used to be horribly, horribly misanthropic, and i was miserable. seriously miserable.
and then, who knows. i did a lot of growing up, and a lot of thinking, and now, i love people. sure, there are assholes, but i still love people, and that's just how it goes.
 

Cogwulf

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#23
I believe something along the same lines to the original post, but when describing the rest of the human race I wouldn't call them judgemental selfish or stupid. Humanities single and overarching problem is the absence of open-mindedness. This single thing can be at the root of those things, it makes people judgemental because people don't gather new information to base decisions of others on. It makes people selfish because people aren't aware of the feelings of others.

The shortcomings of most of the human race aren't due to any sort of maliciousness or negative personality traits, it is just because of how most peoples brains work, they just don't have thought processes that enable them to avoid this.
I also seriously doubt there is any human alive who has never been guilty of any of these things, whether they are aware of it or not.

Being selfish takes no effort at all. An act of true selflessness usually has a very high cost.

And actually reading back, Fukyos post says mostly what I intended this to


As for being misanthropic, I am sure I will always hate humanity, but I can still love humans.
 

RedLoki

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#24
I used to have misanthropic thoughts quite often, but then I had a sudden, strong shift in perspective. It's not something you can explain to others who haven't experienced it though. One thing to keep in mind is the fact that such attitudes come from a lack of perspective, either imposed by circumstances around you, or even by yourself. When you're enslaved in your (currently negative) worldview the negativity only enforces itself through a continuous loop, making your view more and more narrow as time goes by. It helps to deliberately keep an outlook on the big picture and especially to make an effort to consider things from the point of view of other people.

In the midst of thinking we're surrounded by morons, even amongst those same people there are dozens of those who think the exact same things you do.
this times infinity.

i didn't want to bring this up or anything, 'cause it seems like such a cop-out and it feels like it weakens my argument, but i've never always been so... you know, happiness and sunshine out my ass all the time or anything. i used to be horribly, horribly misanthropic, and i was miserable. seriously miserable.
and then, who knows. i did a lot of growing up, and a lot of thinking, and now, i love people. sure, there are assholes, but i still love people, and that's just how it goes.
All of this couldn't be said better.

I used to be very misanthropic and very bitter to everyone but a few friends. What took me out of the loop when I moved to the middle of nowhere. My closest neighbour was far away and I hardly went into town. You realize how lonely you've become and want to be around people; a stranger, a friend, someone disliked, anyone.
 

Beat Mango

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#25
I used to have misanthropic thoughts quite often, but then I had a sudden, strong shift in perspective. It's not something you can explain to others who haven't experienced it though. One thing to keep in mind is the fact that such attitudes come from a lack of perspective, either imposed by circumstances around you, or even by yourself. When you're enslaved in your (currently negative) worldview the negativity only enforces itself through a continuous loop, making your view more and more narrow as time goes by. It helps to deliberately keep an outlook on the big picture and especially to make an effort to consider things from the point of view of other people.

In the midst of thinking we're surrounded by morons, even amongst those same people there are dozens of those who think the exact same things you do.
I think this is untrue, it's not a lack of perspective, it's just a different perspective. And as I explained and should be obvious, a perspective with plenty of justification. But perhaps misanthropy is like suicide: it's something we just have to cast a shadow upon if we're ever going to lead somewhat happy lives. The attitudes of you and shoeless irk the hell out of me because you remind of me the people who criticise me for being negative, using the same arguments. But you're also probably more happy than me, so who am I to say you're wrong (even though I think you are).

By the way, just because I can't help myself: keep an outlook on the big picture?? The big picture is that we're all going to die and our lives will be rendered meaningless. Not very comforting. My way to resolve it is to think that I can still be happy despite the shortcomings of the world.
 

RedLoki

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#26
It is a lack of perspective.

When you hold one perspective (it doesn't matter if it's different, they're all different) for a long time, what happens? You naturally dismiss, ignore and don't care about other perspectives. You stubbornly defend your own, but for what reason? It's negative and doesn't serve you anything but grief. Since it doesn't help you, it's illogical to continue holding on to it. Take a different perspective, maybe you'll be happier.

Yes, you and everyone will die. But why take the negative perspective? You know what's more meaningless than knowing death is the one inevitable fact of life? Getting worked up about death because no thinking about it will ever change the fact. Enjoy life with people while you can.

PS: Your quote "don't hate the player, hate the game" is taken out of context. It's referring to the game of attraction. I say this out of experience, it's a very true quote. You have to play the game to create attraction from girls (or guys?), if you don't play the game then you don't attract. So... don't hate the player, hate the game!
 

Beat Mango

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#27
It is a lack of perspective.

When you hold one perspective (it doesn't matter if it's different, they're all different) for a long time, what happens? You naturally dismiss, ignore and don't care about other perspectives. You stubbornly defend your own, but for what reason? It's negative and doesn't serve you anything but grief. Since it doesn't help you, it's illogical to continue holding on to it. Take a different perspective, maybe you'll be happier.

Yes, you and everyone will die. But why take the negative perspective? You know what's more meaningless than knowing death is the one inevitable fact of life? Getting worked up about death because no thinking about it will ever change the fact. Enjoy life with people while you can.

PS: Your quote "don't hate the player, hate the game" is taken out of context. It's referring to the game of attraction. I say this out of experience, it's a very true quote. You have to play the game to create attraction from girls (or guys?), if you don't play the game then you don't attract. So... don't hate the player, hate the game!
I am happy. Except I offer people who are bitter sympathy rather than judgement.
 

Fukyo

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#28
Beat Mango said:
The attitudes of you and shoeless irk the hell out of me because you remind of me the people who criticise me for being negative, using the same arguments. But you're also probably more happy than me, so who am I to say you're wrong (even though I think you are).
Well for one, I'm not criticizing anyone, nor am I propagating some kind of happy-go-lucky optimistic attitude. Although this is pretty funny to me, because I am a very negative person myself. :D

However my current attitude (if self imposed) is that of change and expansion.
 

Hadoblado

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#31
+1 to cogwulf.
edit: @sombertime88
It depends on who you are, I would not generalise that characteristic to everyone, least of all an INTP forum. We generally have high standards for ourselves and others.
 
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#32
Reminds me of a Woody Allen quotation: "I would never be in a club that would have me as a member". haha
 

snafupants

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#33
meh, salt of the earth people typically have some redeeming qualities. sometimes, however, those qualities are in areas that one doesnt value as much, like love for family or country, and they are discounted.

usually folks are self involved because they suffer from golf ball sized consciousness; this condition is exacerbated by consumerist, sex obsessed, entertainment based, and my-me-mine culture, sure.

the feeling this evokes in me is less bitterness than pity. as we get more intelligent as a species, some of the myopia should dissipate, causing people to embrace strangers and their lifestyles. in the meantime it may be a bumpy ride.

if somehow folks expanded their worldviews though, they would assuredly be more concerned about the planet and one another. the core problem is a lack of understanding and not strictly intolerance. intolerance concedes too much here.

the reason greed, lust, and egoism tend to reign seems to be rest on the notion that life is infinite. having an emotional/intellectual respect for death, and the finite nature of life, would definitely erode my-me-mine behavior and its damaging effects.
 

crippli

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#34
I consider my perspectives to be neutral, or more accurately, I call them observations. But due to perhaps the effects of baryogenesis, or some other asymmetry, my observations will often be considered negative.

I'm more concerned with them being accurate, then either positive or negative. I am quite certain I am not misanthropic, but many would probably experience me as one. I remember I was called cynical by an older person at 12-13 years of age, that was very surprising, as I didn't interpret my observations as such. Just stating what I saw.
 
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