The INTP to ENTP project!

[Hawkeye]

I didn't think I was being offensive... *yawn*

I'm still not sold on this biological mbti concept model. It is quite strange to me, in fact, that another INTP would be sold on such a definitive view of anything - it seems against my very grain to base assumptions on static 'truths' because I am by my very thought-nature propelled into open-ended thinking.

Anthille does have a point though.

This experiment will only show how good you are at acting (initially).

It works similarly to lying. If you lie about an idea for long enough you will eventually convince yourself that it was infact a true event. The lie becomes second nature to you and you can tell the story without even thinking about it. You will fool every lie detector known to man (if the story itself is believable of course...).

Whether or not the story you tell is true is where things get a little fuzzy.

If you acted like an 'ENTP' for example for long enough that you no longer think about what you are doing. Does it mean you are now ENTP or just a very good liar who can even fool himself?

 

[boradicus]

Anthille does have a point though.

This experiment will only show how good you are at acting (initially).

It works similarly to lying. If you lie about an idea for long enough you will eventually convince yourself that it was infact a true event. The lie becomes second nature to you and you can tell the story without even thinking about it. You will fool every lie detector known to man (if the story itself is believable of course...).

Whether or not the story you tell is true is where things get a little fuzzy.

If you acted like an 'ENTP' for example for long enough that you no longer think about what you are doing. Does it mean you are now ENTP or just a very good liar who can even fool himself?

I am amazed at your bias.

Firstly, the experiment itself is an INQUIRY - not an attempt to 'act' like something I am not. If you had kept up with my journals you would plainly see this inquiry in the works.

Secondly, the comparison of lying seems a horrible slander (one which I would not expect from another with a view to the possibilities inherent in discovery - in all I am perplexed by the seemingly inherent 'J'-ness of many in the forum) for what is in reality a question of the psyche's subordinance to genetics or to behaviorism.

For one, I think it evil to insouciantly propose the former, for such arguments as the that of the 'bad seed' are thence derived. Society is based on a rational mean accessible to all, to deny that it is possible for others to access such a mean by way of their inherent make-up is monstrous; on the contrary, the extent to which we may enlarge accessibility (by way of science, etc) to this mean, the less marginalization occurs.

Only a century ago, people used to lock their relatives away from the rest of the world and treat them like animals because they did not understand their needs or how to assist them to have access to the same rights and benefits attendant to civil society as they. It is because of science and progress that these barbarisms have in large part been reduced. Should we then not continue to study? Should we then not continue to explore our potential as human beings? Are you telling me (because if you are claiming the biological argument that is indeed what you are doing) that because of my genetic make up that I am 'incapable' of achieving my dreams?

 

[BigApplePi]

Someone, just now, curiously went to my youtube video associated with my INTP to ENTP wiki project and claimed that I was a 'hot' INFJ. Gee I wonder who that might be?

#1 I am not Gay
#2 I am not an INFJ
#3 Please act your age

#1 Maybe he thought you looked cute?
Maybe she thought you looked cute?

#2 As long as you're "hot" doesn't matter

#3 Every age has a wide range of action. It's a kinda Bell-shaped curve.

 

[Hawkeye]

I am amazed at your bias.

Firstly, the experiment itself is an INQUIRY - not an attempt to 'act' like something I am not. If you had kept up with my journals you would plainly see this inquiry in the works.

Secondly, the comparison of lying seems a horrible slander (one which I would not expect from another with a view to the possibilities inherent in discovery - in all I am perplexed by the seemingly inherent 'J'-ness of many in the forum) for what is in reality a question of the psyche's subordinance to genetics or to behaviorism.

For one, I think it evil to insouciantly propose the former, for such arguments as the that of the 'bad seed' are thence derived. Society is based on a rational mean accessible to all, to deny that it is possible for others to access such a mean by way of their inherent make-up is monstrous; on the contrary, the extent to which we may enlarge accessibility (by way of science, etc) to this mean, the less marginalization occurs.

Only a century ago, people used to lock their relatives away from the rest of the world and treat them like animals because they did not understand their needs or how to assist them to have access to the same rights and benefits attendant to civil society as they. It is because of science and progress that these barbarisms have in large part been reduced. Should we then not continue to study? Should we then not continue to explore our potential as human beings? Are you telling me (because if you are claiming the biological argument that is indeed what you are doing) that because of my genetic make up that I am 'incapable' of achieving my dreams?

If you read one of my earlier posts you will see that I said people's personalities change over time. However, I don't believe you can voluntarily change it let alone specific parts of it to the levels you are implying.

Your personality is in essence your operating system. Over time it gets updated from experiences and environmental events and can eventually end up being completely different to the original blueprint.

Windows 3.11 ----> Windows 7

What you are implying is changing from Linux to Windows. What your mind will end up doing is emulating Windows on top of the original operating system. It will function almost as well as the real thing but it still won't be Windows.

You say I am biased but I am basing this on past experiences of my life. I am a very different person to who I was 10 years ago. When I watch video recordings of myself as a child, I still can't believe it's me at times. However, even though my personality has changed (quite drastically in places) I am still the same person at the core.


I couldn't care less if you thought what I was saying was complete bullshit. What I can't understand is why you are so defensive about your own beliefs. If you believe you can change your personality then by all means go for it (Although I really have no idea why you would want to change who you are). I'm not stopping you from doing anything. All I am doing is posting my own opinion about the matter and if you don't like it then simply ignore me. Don't cry about it.

p.s. My guitar > Your guitar

 

[BigApplePi]

Comment on personality types. They say there are 16 of them. I have no idea why, but evolution must have favored this division or else they are just uncontrolled randomness.

When I think of INTP versus INTJ, think of how the INTP favors (at the extreme) looking at things so broadly he fails to choose. Think of how the INTJ favors (at the extreme) choosing so that he may error in his choice. BOTH are needed. As a society we must survey and then choose. INTPs and INTJs are specialists in the social world. BOTH are needed.

Similar statements can be made for INTx's and ENTx's. Things people deal with must be looked at analytically if we are to be accurate in progress. But progress is useless if it fails to apply to the very people we wish it for. Therefore society needs BOTH INTx's and ENTx's.

Added: INTx's favor analysis at the expense of context; ENTx's favor context at the expense of analysis.

Too bad this link has no details:
Re: How To Understand Anything
Muse where are you???

 

[Hawkeye]

Comment on personality types. They say there are 16 of them. I have no idea why, but evolution must have favored this division or else they are just uncontrolled randomness.

When I think of INTP versus INTJ, think of how the INTP favors (at the extreme) looking at things so broadly he fails to choose. Think of how the INTJ favors (at the extreme) choosing so that he may error in his choice. BOTH are needed. As a society we must survey and then choose. INTPs and INTJs are specialists in the social world. BOTH are needed.

Similar statements can be made for INTx's and ENTx's. Things people deal with must be looked at analytically if we are to be accurate in progress. But progress is useless if it fails to apply to the very people we wish it for. Therefore society needs BOTH INTx's and ENTx's.

Added: INTx's favor analysis at the expense of context; ENTx's favor context at the expense of analysis.

Too bad this link has no details:
Re: How To Understand Anything
Muse where are you???

They say there are only 16 Extreme types. This is because they reckon there are only 4 categories to a personality with each category containing 2 extremes. Naturally 4 x 4 = 16 different combinations.

Everyone is a mixture of all 16. Obviously we all know this


According to this list I am more Extraverted.

With extraverts:

• Show energy and enthusiasm.
• Respond quickly without long pauses to think.
• Allow talking out loud without definite conclusions.
• Communicate openly - do not censure.
• Focus on the external world, the people and the things.
• Allow time for bouncing around ideas.
• Take words at face value.
• Do not assume commitment or decisions made.

With introverts:

• Include introduction time to get to know you and trust you.
• Encourage responses with questions as, “What do you think?”
• Use polling techniques for input and decision making.
• Allow time for thinking before responding and decision-making.
• Make use of written responses where practical.
• Concentrate on one-on-one activities.
• Do not assume lack of interest.

 

[Adymus]

I am perplexed by the seemingly inherent 'J'-ness of many in the forum

Really?

Really!?

You don't even bother to learn anything past the basics of a model you are trying to advance, you get offended at the fact that people are criticizing your endeavor, you fight tooth and nail for your view point using pathos as your only real defense, you accuse people who disagree with you of being less intuitive and "biased",


And now we're the ones being J-like!? Are you even listening to yourself!?
I guess the pot is calling the kettle black indeed.

That's actually why I dropped arguing with you about your mbti type a page ago, because you have been doing a great job highlighting this for me.

It is because of science and progress that these barbarisms have in large part been reduced. Should we then not continue to study? Should we then not continue to explore our potential as human beings? Are you telling me (because if you are claiming the biological argument that is indeed what you are doing) that because of my genetic make up that I am 'incapable' of achieving my dreams?

Here is the thing, there is not a single person in this forum that is against the progression of science and understanding. However, the point of science and understanding is to give us an idea of what is possible.
By the logic you are using, essentially I am trying to halt the progression of science because I am telling people that they cannot morph into a squirrel from concentrating really hard on it. You see morphing into a squire would require a massive transmutation and reduction of matter, and your brain does not have the ability to defy physics. Maybe it is possible to randomly morph into a squirrel, but thanks to modern science, we know that it can't be done by simply concentrating on it.

When we say that by forcefully trying to change your type, we are not trying to halt science, we are trying to use science as a baseline of knowing how something can be done. So far we are aware that simply trying to pretend you are an extrovert is not going to biologically shift the wiring in your brain, just because you want it to. Maybe there is a way to become an Extrovert, but pretending to be one is not it.

 

[boradicus]

I couldn't care less if you thought what I was saying was complete bullshit. What I can't understand is why you are so defensive about your own beliefs. If you believe you can change your personality then by all means go for it (Although I really have no idea why you would want to change who you are). I'm not stopping you from doing anything. All I am doing is posting my own opinion about the matter and if you don't like it then simply ignore me. Don't cry about it.

Correct information is always requisite to a collaborative approach. If you disdain my corrections of your opinions about what I have posted, you are free to stop posting at any time. I don't understand why you would put so much effort into criticizing something that you care nothing about =).

What I am doing is merely addressing the incorrect assertions about the experiment I am conducting. If people come to this thread and want to know what it is that I am doing, I believe that I have a responsibility to communicate what that is clearly and understandably. If you disagree with me or my viewpoints that is fine, however, don't expect me not to reply when criticized - that is ridiculous.

Also, what seems to be ridiculous to me is the lack of open-mindedness of the people posting here (certainly not everyone - many are quite open minded!). There are a certain few who have taken issue with the idea of discovery itself - and THAT I do find ODD. How can it be, that natural theorists, as NTPs are, can be so preferential as to discard the exploration of a theory?

This is certainly worth defending, if not for NTPs everywhere, at least for the purpose of this meager thread =)

 

[boradicus]

Comment on personality types. They say there are 16 of them. I have no idea why, but evolution must have favored this division or else they are just uncontrolled randomness.

When I think of INTP versus INTJ, think of how the INTP favors (at the extreme) looking at things so broadly he fails to choose. Think of how the INTJ favors (at the extreme) choosing so that he may error in his choice. BOTH are needed. As a society we must survey and then choose. INTPs and INTJs are specialists in the social world. BOTH are needed.

Similar statements can be made for INTx's and ENTx's. Things people deal with must be looked at analytically if we are to be accurate in progress. But progress is useless if it fails to apply to the very people we wish it for. Therefore society needs BOTH INTx's and ENTx's.

Added: INTx's favor analysis at the expense of context; ENTx's favor context at the expense of analysis.

Too bad this link has no details:
Re: How To Understand Anything
Muse where are you???

Certainly, and on any team worth its salt, everyone has a place. For instance, the visionaries forge the way ahead with new ideas, and the people who are extremely good with implementing the ideas implement them, the people who are likewise good at testing them for flaws make good test engineers, and lets not forget the marketers, advertising executives, etc. Certainly, this is no company designing, implementing, testing, and pushing a product, but as people we have similar niches that we can offer to each other. I think it is great that you brought this up as it is a good perspective through which to bring about harmonious discussion =)

Thank You !

 

[boradicus]

Really?

Really!?

You don't even bother to learn anything past the basics of a model you are trying to advance, you get offended at the fact that people are criticizing your endeavor, you fight tooth and nail for your view point using pathos as your only real defense, you accuse people who disagree with you of being less intuitive and "biased",


And now we're the ones being J-like!? Are you even listening to yourself!?
I guess the pot is calling the kettle black indeed.

That's actually why I dropped arguing with you about your mbti type a page ago, because you have been doing a great job highlighting this for me.


Here is the thing, there is not a single person in this forum that is against the progression of science and understanding. However, the point of science and understanding is to give us an idea of what is possible.
By the logic you are using, essentially I am trying to halt the progression of science because I am telling people that they cannot morph into a squirrel from concentrating really hard on it. You see morphing into a squire would require a massive transmutation and reduction of matter, and your brain does not have the ability to defy physics. Maybe it is possible to randomly morph into a squirrel, but thanks to modern science, we know that it can't be done by simply concentrating on it.

When we say that by forcefully trying to change your type, we are not trying to halt science, we are trying to use science as a baseline of knowing how something can be done. So far we are aware that simply trying to pretend you are an extrovert is not going to biologically shift the wiring in your brain, just because you want it to. Maybe there is a way to become an Extrovert, but pretending to be one is not it.

Right - that is what I have been getting at - there is "no pretending to be one" involved in my study.

Also, arguing doesn't make someone a 'J' - notice that ENTPs are frequent debaters - especially as a form of discourse (in order to bring about new things - not to smash someone to tiny bits and dance around on their heads lol - this is a much different form of argument). If you notice what I have been arguing for, it is not a strict interpretation of one point or another - it is the argument for the validity of the INQUIRY itself. Now I apologize once again, for offending by my idea - but I think that it is certainly worthwhile - and while I am not a Jungian, per se, with full knowledge of the archetypes and from whence they arose, neither am I a stranger to classical psychology, and its relationship to its progenitor, philosophy. Please recall that the field of psychology is only 200 years or so old, and that prior to that, the practices and theories from whence it arose belonged to the purview of political philosophy - which just so happens to be the concentration of my Political Science Degree.

Next, I am hardly discussing the transmogrification of a human being into that of a squirrel =) - Although I love your example as it was quite amusing =) What I am discussing in MBTI terms is a mere shift of emphasis in Si and Fe; in essence, the sole difference 'funtion-wise' between the ENTP and the INTP is simply this: a reversal in emphasis of the functions of Fe and Si - Fe being tertiary and Si being inferior in the ENTP, while Si is tertiary and Fe is inferior in the INTP.

Additionally, my inquiry does not state that such a transformation is possible, it simply asks the question 'if it is, then how and in what way?' and the auxiliary question of 'how can an INTP learn from an ENTP to improve his interactions with his environment?'

Lastly, I'm not offended, I am however attempting to drive my point home with hyperbole when needed - part of the Socratic Method - and as I stated earlier, there is no 'point of view' as you put it, other than the idea that inquiry is possible rather than not.

By the way, when you stopped 'arguing with me' as you say, was immediately after I presented you with a series of questions about your methodology for reading people's mbti-types based on facial expressions, etc. I thought that this was quite reasonable, would be informative, and what's more it would help me see any logic there may have been other than subjective interpretation on your part for your claim.

I am still waiting...

 

[boradicus]

#1 Maybe he thought you looked cute?
Maybe she thought you looked cute?

#2 As long as you're "hot" doesn't matter

#3 Every age has a wide range of action. It's a kinda Bell-shaped curve.

It was *humorous* =) - but only in retrospect

 

[Fukyo]

I'm still not sold on this biological mbti concept model. It is quite strange to me, in fact, that another INTP would be sold on such a definitive view of anything - it seems against my very grain to base assumptions on static 'truths' because I am by my very thought-nature propelled into open-ended thinking.

This seems to be an incredibly common misconception about the typology. (Lets refer to it as Jungian typology instead of MBTI, to avoid confusion with terms)

A lot of people get fooled into thinking this only due to the exposure to the common MBTI related things that can be found on the internet (which is not even suited to be beginners stuff because it misleads people right on the start), however what both Adymus and SpiralHacker have been talking about on this thread is probably quite the opposite of the quoted part.

The typology model, as I see it, is in a constant state of "preliminary certainty", there's nothing "static" about it, on the contrary it's very fluid and flexible. Every current "certainty" is always the subject of change as new information, observations and hypothesis become available. Making some assumptions is needed, because we need to start off from *something*, but what is assumed is definitely not regarded as static, and it is tested to see how it will compare to the basic rules of the typology system before it becomes integrated. It is true though, and it should be noted that there are certain setbacks because we always have to remember that our samples for observation may be faulty, and that we lack certain empirical data to make it conclusive.

---

Ok, so in regards to the 16 types and the current assumption that type cannot be changed, this same flexibility is present here. An individual is not just a sum of 4 letters, and isn't a slave to one basic type (or should I say their dominant function), because what is "under the hub" of the 4 letter type code is a far more flexible dynamic.

To put it in simpler terms on the example of an INTP individual:

The dominant function (Ti) presents this individual's most comfortable, natural inclination. For the average individual, this will be his most noticeable state, what most will recognize as his character, his personality. He will be quiet, contemplative, detached, introverted. And most people familiar with only this facet of the INTP type will assume this is all there is to the INTP, and all other INTPs will be like this all the time. Note that while this characteristic IS universal to every INTP, it is not his ONLY facet, and not the facet that ALL of them will display ALL THE TIME.

Now, in contrast, when an INTP is engaging his Ne and Fe, there will be a noticeable change in his behavior, he will be genuinely more extroverted for the duration of this endeavor. Thus, the INTP is not a slave to the singularly introverted stance and he can go into an extroverted mode. The reason why it is said that the type doesn't change is because after the endeavor the individual will return to his dominant to recharge, and just needing to return to his dominant after some time, does not cut him off from his other functions (which can be diametrically opposite) and facets.

 

[Lithorn]

Wow. I believe what we have here is a serious case of (if I may quote a particularly thorough intp profile http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html ):

"the INTP feels the instant drive to provide for clarity. This is his Mission; to be the provider of clarity, and is often suspicious that he is the only person capable of this task. Here, the INTP risks being seen as over-critical, aloof and arrogant. On the whole, however, real arrogance is rare for INTPs for their desire is not to dominate others but simply to observe, analyse and clarify."

Adymus, I haven't been on this forum long, but I have noticed a tendency you have to charge right in and clarify issues related to typing and mbti. Whether or not your clarifications are accurate and whether or not you are qualified to be stating them with such certainty is not an issue I have really formed an opinion on yet (and even if I had, I probably wouldn't want to get involved).
It is clear from the hesitancy with which you originally broached the subject ie:

"Uhhhhm.
Okay so I just watched your video finally, and I kind of noticed something... Crucial, I suppose to your experiment...
I'm not sure how you are going to take this..."

that your were well aware that your pronouncement that boradicus is not an intp would not necessarily be recieved well, which leads me to believe that such pronouncements have rarely been received well. This pattern is also evident in the "just wait until Adymus hears about this" cracks towards the beginning of this thread.
I'm thinking that it might have to do with that by their very nature the are "pronouncements". People generally don't appreciate being simply Told things, especially things about themselves.
Perhaps you could work on finding a better way to phrase things, one that goes beyond simply clarifying what you see to be incorrect and further explains your thought processes and the reasoning behind what you see to be correct.
It's obvious that you're well-versed in typology, but you can hardly expect the things you say to be taken at face-value by people unfamiliar with your background, can you?

 

[cheese]

^Perhaps the reason we don't fit the sea into a teacup is because it's a little big. It's difficult to choose just which bit of the iceberg is best suited for display.

It's a very fair point Lithorn. I'm just not sure how any of us could fix this fault. Perhaps Adymus could affix a summary of his background as his sig, that might work.

(Apologies if I sound self-important; there's excess pomposity in the air and it got up my nose.) (I am a victim!)

 

[BigApplePi]

Correct information is always requisite to a collaborative approach. If you disdain my corrections of your opinions about what I have posted, you are free to stop posting at any time. I don't understand why you would put so much effort into criticizing something that you care nothing about =).

What I am doing is merely addressing the incorrect assertions about the experiment I am conducting. If people come to this thread and want to know what it is that I am doing, I believe that I have a responsibility to communicate what that is clearly and understandably. If you disagree with me or my viewpoints that is fine, however, don't expect me not to reply when criticized - that is ridiculous.

Also, what seems to be ridiculous to me is the lack of open-mindedness of the people posting here (certainly not everyone - many are quite open minded!). There are a certain few who have taken issue with the idea of discovery itself - and THAT I do find ODD. How can it be, that natural theorists, as NTPs are, can be so preferential as to discard the exploration of a theory?

This is certainly worth defending, if not for NTPs everywhere, at least for the purpose of this meager thread =)

Here is what could be happening. When someone makes a strong assertion, an INTP who doesn't understand what's going on

Spoiler

or who does understand but wishes to lay down the other possibilities

behind that assertion would question it. That is because they will look at many possibilities, not just what meets the eye. I recall wadlez (an INTP) challenging people to a debate. Not only that, he was willing to take either side of the issue. So you see it's not so much a failure to be open minded but rather a willingness (maybe stubborn desire) to question everything. Now INTPs are not especially noted for their social skills. That means anyone who wishes to take a particular path and courageously puts it out there in front for everyone, the resulting INTP judgments are not necessarily going to be high up on the tactfulness scale.

 

[boradicus]

My dear Lithorn, how nice of you to rush to Adymus' defense!

However, I am the one attempting to clarify here, and until such questions as I have asked are addressed, I fear very much that something other than intelligent discourse has taken the helm of this thread.

Your oblique reference to the following:

that your were well aware that your pronouncement that boradicus is not an intp

appears to have damaging effect by an attempt to distract from analysis of the logic behind the statement and appeal to the appearance of authoritativeness upon the subject rather than rational discourse about it.

A brilliant flank attack and support to Adymus's Ad Hominem!

 

[boradicus]

Once again, proof... Gentlemen.... PROOF.

 

[boradicus]

So you see it's not so much a failure to be open minded but rather a willingness (maybe stubborn desire) to question everything.

Obviously, this is not what is happening, nor does it makes sense as it is self-contradictory.
1. On the one hand, a stubborn desire to question everything 'is' open-mindedness - leaving judgment to rational consideration rather than rational consideration to judgment and helpless appeals to authority when rational justification fails
2. On the other hand, it is I that am defending open-mindedness and not the other way around - the debating floor is open - very open - just so long as logic and rational discourse are the mediating agents thereof.

An appeal to authority is just as much an admission of defeat as if you were to say "I can't think anymore, I concede."

Court is adjourned. There shall be a brief recess for the preparation of any closing arguments.

 

[boradicus]

On a side note, thank you Fukyo for your input. I thought that yours was perhaps the most intelligent post on the matter so far and I greatly enjoyed reading your input !

 

[Mello]

Are you an ENTP, yet?

 

[Lithorn]

My dear Lithorn, how nice of you to rush to Adymus' defense!

However, I am the one attempting to clarify here, and until such questions as I have asked are addressed, I fear very much that something other than intelligent discourse has taken the helm of this thread.

Your oblique reference to the following: appears to have damaging effect by an attempt to distract from analysis of the logic behind the statement and appeal to the appearance of authoritativeness upon the subject rather than rational discourse about it.

A brilliant flank attack and support to Adymus's Ad Hominem!

You are grossly misinterpreting my post if you think I was defending Adymus. In fact, I have often found myself quite annoyed by his "charge in an correct people" attitude, which is why I felt the need to post.
If I sounded sympathetic towards him (or did not criticize him to your liking), it's because even while I find such behavior annoying, I see something of myself in it. If I feel like I know what I'm talking about (as Adymus obviously feels like he knows what he's talking about) it is also my first impulse to correct people.

Growing up in a family of feelers of the worst sort (and by that I mean those people who take any minor correction as a sign that I don't love/respect/believe in them), I had to learn to repress that impulse, or at least be tactful when it couldn't be restrained. And tact (as Pi has pointed out) is not an intp's strong suit. This is something I have struggled with my whole life, and I believe that Adymus could learn something from that struggle. Actually, most intps could probably benefit from developing a little more tact. Nobody wants to listen to what the class know-it-all, so it makes sense to try a different approach to communication.

And when I talk about "correcting people" and "being a know-it-all", I am in no way trying to imply that I believe Adymus to be correct in this particular debate. I'm simply illustrating his mindset in order to make my point. The language I used was a tool for expressing meaning, not some subtle, logical barb. I suppose we could get into a philosophical debate along the lines of "Is it a correction if it's not correct", but I'd really rather not. Obviously, Adymus believes himself to be correct, and thus I describe his actions as "correcting people". Your mention of "oblique references" and "flank attacks" are completely unfounded, and I do not appreciate having opinions read into my words. If and when I decide to take a side in an argument, there's nothing oblique about it. I say what I mean. I don't edge around the issue.

I DO NOT (and I will repeat because even though I clearly stated it in my original post it is apparently not getting through) Do Not have an opinion in the matter of whether or not you are an intp. I myself have next to zero experience with typing and therefore should have no opinion on the matter. I also Do Not have an opinion on the matter of Adymus's qualifications, because it would all be speculation at this point. (In fact, in your paranoid rush to defend against my nonexistent attack, you appear to have missed my implicit admonishment of Adymus for not addressing your questions about his qualifications). My post really had nothing to do with you except that the argument between the two of you seemed to be the perfect example with which to illustrate my point.

 

[Robbaz]

Are you an ENTP, yet?

I love ping-pong.

I thought that Boradicus was enlightened by SpiralHacker at 10:08 yesterday. Or at least it sounded like he agreed with almost all of a fellow ENTP's assessments. It appears to me that this is one of those perpetual discussions that will go on and on, no matter what new evidence is brought to light. Now, although this verbal tennis match of analyzing and re-analyzing the 4 dichotomous pairs of the cognitive functions is somewhat entertaining, (I even have to keep checking into it for entertainment's sake), I have a feeling this INTP or closet ENTP/INTJ concert will continue on for much time to come and perhaps never reach a finale. Going back to the basic ENTP description on personalitypage.com, this could explain the need to keep this train moving.

ENTP:



ENTPs are fluent conversationalists, mentally quick, and enjoy verbal sparring with others. They love to debate issues, and may even switch sides sometimes just for the love of the debate. When they express their underlying principles, however, they may feel awkward and speak abruptly and intensely.

The ENTP personality type is sometimes referred to the "Lawyer" type. ........If the ENTP was defending someone who had actually committed a crime, they are likely to take advantage of quirks in the law that will get their client off the hook. .......If the Feeling part of themself is neglected, the ENTP may not value other people's input enough, or may become overly harsh and aggressive.
Under stress, the ENTP may lose their ability to generate possibilities, and become obsessed with minor details. These details may seem to be extremely important to the ENTP, but in reality are usually not important to the big picture. They get a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction from interacting with others, and especially enjoy discussing and debating theories and concepts which interest them. They may be prone to initiate arguments because they so enjoy the debate...... Excellent communication skills..... Extremely interested in self-improvement and growth in their relationships .....Idea-people, always working on a grand scheme or idea .......Their love of debate may cause them to provoke arguments .......They love nothing better than engaging in a good debate with someone who can hold their end of the conversation. This will stimulate and energize the ENTP, who is highly competitive and loves to discuss theories.......Sometimes the ENTP falls into the habit of practicing "one-upmanship".

Form your own opinions on that, but let's think about how an INTP would probably handle this experiment, given they take it upon themselves to perform such an arduous venture.

I don't believe it would be unlikely for an INTP to take on an experiment like this. I've even thought about how I could become more extraverted myself. An INTP would come up with the great IDEA of the experiment and get all excited about it.

We would probably create a list, spreadsheet, or even a database outlining exactly how it was going to work, how long it would take to do, and possibly even a pros/cons list helping us determine if it would be beneficial to start the quest. We would become somewhat consumed by it, or we wouldn' gain the energy to do it properly. We would then do as much research as possible and probably not tell anyone around us. However, with the nebulous anonymity forums like this offer, we would possibly announce on this forum that we were thinking about doing an experiment like this. I doubt any of us would put a couple youtube videos and wiki page together possibly because it would take too much effort or because you would lose the anonymous nature of it.

We would start working on it for a few days and realize how difficult it is to act all "bubbly" and it would start to feel a little fake. We would press on, not wanted to give up on our beloved project, but it wouldn't take long to realize that the crowds, trying to fit in, and talking just to talk, (since these are typical extraverted things), would just be exhausting.

Along the way to this enlightenment of becoming an extraverted INTP, we would have to suppress 20 other big ideas or projects that come to our minds and somehow resist the temptation to completely shift gears to work on those "great ideas". If somehow, we still have not lost interest and moved onto something, we may decide to start the discussion in a forum like this. We would either write up an extremely detailed thread or possibly a vague one to see what type of response we'd receive.

If you had the type of volley that has been recycled over and over in this thread, you would probably start to doubt that you are on the right path. You would think that if so many other INTPs who are supposed to think, react and function generally like yourself, then something must be wrong. You would start to question yourself and re-analyze every facet of your own inner-self. For every argument that is thrown at you in regards to yourself, you would think there has to be some legitimacy to it, otherwise it wouldn't have been brought up. Especially since it was brought up by someone you felt was smart. Afterall, us INTPs only value opinions by those who we consider intelligent. And I think all INTPs understand that fellow INTPs have similar intelligence and worth listening to.

We're not really the types that love to argue and create contention and do it in such a way that is starting to be an argument for the sake of argument. The only way we would do that is if we are trying to defend a truth that we know to be absolute. However, if you were able to acknowledge Spiralhacker's observations in a similar fashion, I don't think the truth is absolute enough to make such a strong, vigorous attempts to kill all assumptions that you are not an INTP. You would review all attempts to re-type you as valid and research it from all angles, including the possibility that you might be wrong, maybe you aren't an INTP. You would focus intently on removin any doubt. You would start to feel unproductive and boredom would soon set in to relocate you to the next big idea. Your pet project would sit on the shelf and might be started up again in a few months, but in all likelyhood, it'll probably be the spreadsheets and/or database that is redone.

I don't know you personally Boradicus, but you have revealed so much about yourself that I feel I know you enough to say that you are not an INTP. I think you definitely fit the profile of an ENTP BETTER than an INTP, but as you study the descriptions more, you may be further surprised to find that you are something else. I was going to say that in the end, it can only be you that properly types yourself. But I don't think that's alway the case if someone is hellbent on making a case at all costs. I agree with others that posted that the MBTI testing is not real precise. But I do believe the descriptions and personal descriptions of those who know FOR CERTAIN that they are INTP are accurate.

Either way, I think it's great that you are posting. I love having other types in here to add insight to the discussions and yes, the verbal sparring is educational and entertaining. Especially from someone as self-educated as yourself. But please, come out of the closet......

 

[boradicus]

Are you an ENTP, yet?

 

[boradicus]

Afterall, us INTPs only value opinions by those who we consider intelligent. And I think all INTPs understand that fellow INTPs have similar intelligence and worth listening to.

...and herein lies the problem. I don't see an intelligent response in the typecasting thrown at me: I keep asking for rationalizations, facts, reasons, and all I get are opinions and insinuations. How un-xNTP - in my humble opinon.

The most intelligent response by far, and the most clearly defined one was probably from spiralhacker. On that point I agree, and yet I cannot concur with you on the basis of your supposition that I would simply give up under the pressure brought to bear. I think that some may wish for that, however, I am stubborn by nature and this is not at all uncharacteristic of INTPs. If the whole world got in your face and threw their ideas at you, that does not mean that you would collapse beneath their weight. In fact what has happened is that I have systematically addressed each issue, argued my point, and asked for substantiation of theirs - with the exception of my response to Lithorn which I - by the way - stand by emphatically. In respsonse I have received more opinions and little intelligent discussion (which I am glad to get by the way - as this was the point of the thread!).

Once again, what have defended is openness of discourse. I have defended no point other than to defend rationality itself and to ask for the rationalizations for judgments about myself and what I am doing, and for clarification of those rationalizations when they do not hold up to scrutiny. I am for learning - not judgment without proper rationalization and substantiation of one's perspective.

That is what I am defending. I really don't care what you think if you have not got an argument to back it up. I could care less if your mother were Socrates himself; if you don't have proof or a rationalization that identifies something genuinely new other than an opinion in itself then you have capitulated the point you were attempting to make.

All of this discussion 'about the discussion' is utter nonsense and is a distraction from the actual topic/s. It reminds me quite frankly of a girlfriend who calls you up and wants to have a talk about the relationship because she feels insecure - the whole exercise is fruitless.

So in general now I will address everyone:

I would like to see a departure from insinuations, slanders, and distractions from the actual topic of the thread; If you have an opinion about something, please do share but be willing at least to make an effort to discuss and substantiate your claim if asked about it. Thanks for coming to the thread, and I truly hope that we can now move on and discuss the idea of INTPs learning skillsets from ENTPs - whether or not it is possible to transform from one to the other. This is the topic of the thread, and although I am conducting this experiment myself, I am not the topic of the thread - please let's move on!

Thanks!

 

[shoeless]

...what robbaz said is mind-blowingly accurate.

FUCKING SPREADSHEETS.

 

[boradicus]

FUCKING SPREADSHEETS.

I created a wiki not a spreadsheet - but that is Ne at work because I don't believe in pre-planning self-discovery - other than some initial notes I made on how to conduct my inquiry and what sort of things I was keeping my eyes peeled for...

Once upon a time, however, I did create a spreadsheet on morphology just so I could understand it all better, and currently I am working on a spreadsheet for the pre-planning the design of a house

 

[Mello]

Have you been talking to more people? (Excluding us, of course)

 

[Adymus]

Right - that is what I have been getting at - there is "no pretending to be one" involved in my study.

Also, arguing doesn't make someone a 'J' - notice that ENTPs are frequent debaters - especially as a form of discourse (in order to bring about new things - not to smash someone to tiny bits and dance around on their heads lol - this is a much different form of argument). If you notice what I have been arguing for, it is not a strict interpretation of one point or another - it is the argument for the validity of the INQUIRY itself. Now I apologize once again, for offending by my idea - but I think that it is certainly worthwhile - and while I am not a Jungian, per se, with full knowledge of the archetypes and from whence they arose, neither am I a stranger to classical psychology, and its relationship to its progenitor, philosophy. Please recall that the field of psychology is only 200 years or so old, and that prior to that, the practices and theories from whence it arose belonged to the purview of political philosophy - which just so happens to be the concentration of my Political Science Degree.

Next, I am hardly discussing the transmogrification of a human being into that of a squirrel =) - Although I love your example as it was quite amusing =) What I am discussing in MBTI terms is a mere shift of emphasis in Si and Fe; in essence, the sole difference 'funtion-wise' between the ENTP and the INTP is simply this: a reversal in emphasis of the functions of Fe and Si - Fe being tertiary and Si being inferior in the ENTP, while Si is tertiary and Fe is inferior in the INTP.

Additionally, my inquiry does not state that such a transformation is possible, it simply asks the question 'if it is, then how and in what way?' and the auxiliary question of 'how can an INTP learn from an ENTP to improve his interactions with his environment?'

Lastly, I'm not offended, I am however attempting to drive my point home with hyperbole when needed - part of the Socratic Method - and as I stated earlier, there is no 'point of view' as you put it, other than the idea that inquiry is possible rather than not.

By the way, when you stopped 'arguing with me' as you say, was immediately after I presented you with a series of questions about your methodology for reading people's mbti-types based on facial expressions, etc. I thought that this was quite reasonable, would be informative, and what's more it would help me see any logic there may have been other than subjective interpretation on your part for your claim.

I am still waiting...

There is a clear difference between the way ENTPs argue and the way you are arguing. Spiral and I are often going back and forth about our theories, it is actually very impersonal, and it goes in completely random and undirected places. Both of us are really just throwing ideas around, and we consider it a means to expand understanding.

The way you are arguing on the other hand is not for the sake of sparing like ENTPs do it, it is to defeat people. You have not giving anyone who disagrees with you an inch. As soon as someone disagrees with you, you go into this "Let me enlighten you" and "I thought you would be more intuitive" crap. This is what I am talking about when I say "worldview", they way that you are arguing is suggesting that you consider your own viewpoint of how things work to be the absolutely true way, and if you disagree it is just because you are not seeing it too.

I am however attempting to drive my point home with hyperbole when needed

This is a crucial thing to note, you have an agenda that you are trying to push. If you are trying to drive an idea into our heads, you are definitely not just arguing for the sake of seeing where it takes you.
You are also taking this very personally, the way you called me unprofessional for stating what I think of your MBTI without regard for how you feel about me doing it, the way you lashed out at lithorn just because you perceived him to be taking my side. You are literally spilling Fe all over the place, this is very directive behavior, and I am no longer the only one noticing it.


There is also something very amusing that I have to point out: You are getting frustrated by the fact that we are not reacting in the way you thought we would. You are noticing that we are not like you, and you can't figure out why (hence the thinly veiled insults.) We are questioning you in the exact way an INTP should be questioning you, testing out the Ti of your model, questioning the possibilities of what you could be missing (Ne) and using established facts, such as the functions being tied to brain-quadrants, with Si, and you are acting like this is completely left-field, or as your put it "J-like" behavior.

And you are ignoring all of this. why? Because it is not about Ti or Si, it is about Ni. Who cares that the established understanding points to a biological connection between your type and brain, you can see in your Ni that this should be able to work, so you focus on that, and nothing else.

The difference between the INTP and ENTP is not just the Tertiary and Inferior, it is the Dominant and Auxiliary functions that switch places as well.

So your question is "How can the shift in traits discussed work?" and we gave our answer: Not by pretending you are an extrovert and simply forcing yourself to be more extroverted. What else did you expect? We are not Ni doms, we don't go jumping to conclusions of how things should be able to work in the abstract, when we have no possible way of being certain that they would work that way.

By the way, when you stopped 'arguing with me' as you say, was immediately after I presented you with a series of questions about your methodology for reading people's mbti-types based on facial expressions, etc. I thought that this was quite reasonable, would be informative, and what's more it would help me see any logic there may have been other than subjective interpretation on your part for your claim.

I am still waiting...

Yeah no, that's bullshit. Every question sans for one of them was about our credibility, not the model itself. You are not looking to gain an understanding of our methodology, you are looking for a hole that you can strawman the shit out of. Also, I am so not going to leak a complete list of our findings on the internet, certainly not to you. We don't need your peer review to validate our model.

 

[Adymus]

Wow. I believe what we have here is a serious case of (if I may quote a particularly thorough intp profile http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html ):

"the INTP feels the instant drive to provide for clarity. This is his Mission; to be the provider of clarity, and is often suspicious that he is the only person capable of this task. Here, the INTP risks being seen as over-critical, aloof and arrogant. On the whole, however, real arrogance is rare for INTPs for their desire is not to dominate others but simply to observe, analyse and clarify."

Adymus, I haven't been on this forum long, but I have noticed a tendency you have to charge right in and clarify issues related to typing and mbti. Whether or not your clarifications are accurate and whether or not you are qualified to be stating them with such certainty is not an issue I have really formed an opinion on yet (and even if I had, I probably wouldn't want to get involved).
It is clear from the hesitancy with which you originally broached the subject ie:

"Uhhhhm.
Okay so I just watched your video finally, and I kind of noticed something... Crucial, I suppose to your experiment...
I'm not sure how you are going to take this..."

that your were well aware that your pronouncement that boradicus is not an intp would not necessarily be recieved well, which leads me to believe that such pronouncements have rarely been received well. This pattern is also evident in the "just wait until Adymus hears about this" cracks towards the beginning of this thread.
I'm thinking that it might have to do with that by their very nature the are "pronouncements". People generally don't appreciate being simply Told things, especially things about themselves.
Perhaps you could work on finding a better way to phrase things, one that goes beyond simply clarifying what you see to be incorrect and further explains your thought processes and the reasoning behind what you see to be correct.
It's obvious that you're well-versed in typology, but you can hardly expect the things you say to be taken at face-value by people unfamiliar with your background, can you?

You're right, I was quite aware that he was not going to like my analysis. Not so much because it has rarely been received well, but because it is rarely received well by INFJs, specifically the ones whose ego rests on them thinking they are INTPs. Lyra was actually the only INFJ that took it in stride, but that is because she didn't really care what type she was in the first place, she also approached me and asked for what I thought of her type.

You are also right in that I should probably recalibrate my approach in the future, and I will, however there is a reason I do it so ungracefully.
It is not so much that I care about whether they know they are not INTPs, I'm doing it because I want everyone else here to know that they are not INTPs. I think it is very important that we have a solid Idea of what our type is and what our type is not. Not to meantion in the case of Boradicus, it also points out how types can appear and think they are one type, and be something you never would have expected, unless you were aware of how complex our development can be.

 

[boradicus]

Have you been talking to more people? (Excluding us, of course)

I'm still in inquiry mode - but for me this is a good start!

 

[boradicus]

There is a clear difference between the way ENTPs argue and the way you are arguing. Spiral and I are often going back and forth about our theories, it is actually very impersonal, and it goes in completely random and undirected places. Both of us are really just throwing ideas around, and we consider it a means to expand understanding.

The way you are arguing on the other hand is not for the sake of sparing like ENTPs do it, it is to defeat people. You have not giving anyone who disagrees with you an inch. As soon as someone disagrees with you, you go into this "Let me enlighten you" and "I thought you would be more intuitive" crap. This is what I am talking about when I say "worldview", they way that you are arguing is suggesting that you consider your own viewpoint of how things work to be the absolutely true way, and if you disagree it is just because you are not seeing it too.
This is a crucial thing to note, you have an agenda that you are trying to push. If you are trying to drive an idea into our heads, you are definitely not just arguing for the sake of seeing where it takes you.
You are also taking this very personally, the way you called me unprofessional for stating what I think of your MBTI without regard for how you feel about me doing it, the way you lashed out at lithorn just because you perceived him to be taking my side. You are literally spilling Fe all over the place, this is very directive behavior, and I am no longer the only one noticing it.


There is also something very amusing that I have to point out: You are getting frustrated by the fact that we are not reacting in the way you thought we would. You are noticing that we are not like you, and you can't figure out why (hence the thinly veiled insults.) We are questioning you in the exact way an INTP should be questioning you, testing out the Ti of your model, questioning the possibilities of what you could be missing (Ne) and using established facts, such as the functions being tied to brain-quadrants, with Si, and you are acting like this is completely left-field, or as your put it "J-like" behavior.

And you are ignoring all of this. why? Because it is not about Ti or Si, it is about Ni. Who cares that the established understanding points to a biological connection between your type and brain, you can see in your Ni that this should be able to work, so you focus on that, and nothing else.

The difference between the INTP and ENTP is not just the Tertiary and Inferior, it is the Dominant and Auxiliary functions that switch places as well.

So your question is "How can the shift in traits discussed work?" and we gave our answer: Not by pretending you are an extrovert and simply forcing yourself to be more extroverted. What else did you expect? We are not Ni doms, we don't go jumping to conclusions of how things should be able to work in the abstract, when we have no possible way of being certain that they would work that way.

Yeah no, that's bullshit. Every question sans for one of them was about our credibility, not the model itself. You are not looking to gain an understanding of our methodology, you are looking for a hole that you can strawman the shit out of. Also, I am so not going to leak a complete list of our findings on the internet, certainly not to you. We don't need your peer review to validate our model.

Obviously, it is not me who is getting offended here. I have asked peaceably for us to move on, but rather than focus on the topic at hand, which is not about me - it is about the inquiry into discovering what can skills can be learned by an INTP from and ENTP that the INTP may find beneficial. But instead you elect to continue this Ad Hominem. Why? Do you not see that very way in which you claim that I argue is more similar to your own style than mine? I have no "World View" to espouse. And apparently you are not familiar with the Socratic method to which I made reference or you would have understood exactly what I meant by use of hyperbole to drive home a point. The point in the Socratic teaching style is not a World View (although Socrates himself may have espoused one, the teaching method itself is detached from any presentiments) - what it is, is a way to make people question things during argumentation by leading one to potentially contradictory assertions and then using obvious or extreme examples to show the contradictions. This, as disharmonious as it sounds, then promotes discourse because the problematic areas are then easily identified by the other party himself (rather than explaining something to someone, it uses a line of reasoning that bring the other party to the place where he may draw his own conclusions about seeming conflicting/paradoxical statements).

Look, I have nothing to hide. I have in fact bared my soul to the world. I am right here - this is me! This is my inquiry! =) I am sharing quite intimately with you and others my experiences. But I cannot answer to claims that are not substantiated by anything but your opinions. I am sorry that you and whoever else do not feel yourself or yourselves at liberty to discuss the questions I have for you. But when you are sufficiently ready to make public your 'research' (I don't even know if what you are actually doing really incorporates research or not or if it is in a theory stage or what - so please forgive me for making this allowance) I will be more than happy to continue our discussion. In light, however, of your 'difficulty' with sharing this data at this time (and I don't know what that is exactly, neither will I ask because I don't want to offend) I think that it would be fair to ask you to please table this discussion until such a time that it may be resolved between the two of us.

If this seems for whatever reason to be untenable to you, I would like to ask that you at least confine your discussion to the topic of the thread and its theory and leave off the discussion of my person.

Thank you !

 

[Adymus]

Sure, I'll drop it.

However, there one thing I'd like to note.
While my disagreement of your type could technically be seen as an Ad Hominem, due to the fact that it is about you personally, I should point out that your experiment is also about you personally. So it is really difficult to target your experiment and avoid targeting you.
Also, your MBTI type is a crucial part of your experiment, if you are not an INTP, then you would not be going from INTP to ENTP. So your personality type should definitely be something to scrutinize. If you want to transmute lead into gold, shouldn't you make sure you are using Lead and not Arsenic? But yeah, I'll drop the subject, nothing else needs to be said on it anyway.

 

[Anthile]

 

[boradicus]

Sure, I'll drop it.

However, there one thing I'd like to note.
While my disagreement of your type could technically be seen as an Ad Hominem, due to the fact that it is about you personally, I should point out that your experiment is also about you personally. So it is really difficult to target your experiment and avoid targeting you.
Also, your MBTI type is a crucial part of your experiment, if you are not an INTP, then you would not be going from INTP to ENTP. So your personality type should definitely be something to scrutinize. If you want to transmute lead into gold, shouldn't you make sure you are using Lead and not Arsenic? But yeah, I'll drop the subject, nothing else needs to be said on it anyway.

Cool - thanks for dropping it and sorry I just made that last post before I saw this - if you like I can remove it for the sake of reconciliation, or if not we'll just let it stand and that will be the end - up to you.

Mark

 

[boradicus]

Edited.

I'll delete mine if you delete yours.

g'night mate =)

 

[BigApplePi]

Once again, proof... Gentlemen.... PROOF.

Once again, proof... Gentlemen.... PROOF.
__________________

Those results say INTP so far. Doesn't say how you will change. I notice the P/J says 51/49 (rounding). If that were an election the P would win.

Reminds me when I gave my wife a brief test. Not that I trusted the test, but rather that I wanted some input over nothing as I couldn't place her other than introverted. I don't have the results in front of me but she scored strongly on the line for the other traits. No wonder I can't figure her out, lol.

 

[BigApplePi]

boradicus. I returned to your website
http://intp2entp.wikispaces.com/The+purpose+of+the+INTP+to+ENTP+Project
because you indicated you wanted to get back on topic. I recall when I had gone to it originally on Feb 24 I had naively clicked on a link there not quite realizing it was an ad and puzzling if it was connected to your project.

Here is the link and I wonder what you think of it --
#1 Guide to Social Skills

Notice the amazing alternate title is
Introvert = Loser

 

[Hawkeye]

I suggest if you want to start becoming more like an ENTP move on from your inquiry stage and start your experiment physically.

We can debate theories until the cows come home. We can't provide proof towards your claims because nobody has achieved what you are after (and collected valuable data from it). If anything I would love for you to come on here with strong evidence collected from your experiment. Atleast this way it doesn't make all the debates rely purely on the hypothetical which have no end in sight.

And please try to be less condescending towards others with all your 'lack of intelligence' drivel. It does you no favours.

As an educated guess I think you'll end up like I/E NTP (about 57% I and 43% E) if you keep at it. I doubt you'll ever be able to get the reverse of your 'current' Introverted (71.05%) and Extraverted (28.95%) results.

Prove me wrong!

 

[Lithorn]

- with the exception of my response to Lithorn which I - by the way - stand by emphatically.

All of this discussion 'about the discussion' is utter nonsense and is a distraction from the actual topic/s. It reminds me quite frankly of a girlfriend who calls you up and wants to have a talk about the relationship because she feels insecure - the whole exercise is fruitless.

Thanks!

Really? You're really just going to ascribe opinions to me that way? Opinions which I have quite clearly stated I don't possess?
You've decided, based on no evidence other than the way I phrased certain things, the significance of which I've already explained you misinterpreted, that I am siding with Adymus. Talk about closed-mindedness.

I am especially disappointed in your assertion that 'discussion about the discussion' is a useless exercise. As someone attempting to become more extroverted, shouldn't you be studying and learning from each of your human interactions, including the on-line ones? Shouldn't you see the value in the kind of self-reflection I was trying to share with Adymus?

The ridiculous thing is, we're not even all that different from each other. You're trying to develop a certain aspect of your personality, which is exactly what I had to do in order to stop constantly upsetting the people I lived with.
Can you really not see the value in discussing that?

 

[boradicus]

Once again, proof... Gentlemen.... PROOF.
__________________

Those results say INTP so far. Doesn't say how you will change. I notice the P/J says 51/49 (rounding). If that were an election the P would win.

Reminds me when I gave my wife a brief test. Not that I trusted the test, but rather that I wanted some input over nothing as I couldn't place her other than introverted. I don't have the results in front of me but she scored strongly on the line for the other traits. No wonder I can't figure her out, lol.

http://intpforum.com/album.php?albumid=73&pictureid=569
http://intpforum.com/album.php?albumid=73&pictureid=571
http://intpforum.com/album.php?albumid=73&pictureid=570
http://intpforum.com/album.php?albumid=73&pictureid=572

All taken on Nov. 15th last year; I believe there were about 4-5 (at minimum) MBTI tests and eight tests that I took in total that pointed to the same thing (enneagram for example - which I include here).

These are the only ones I thought to take screen captures of at the time, although I believe I saved a few others as html links - but the cookies for the links have way since expired...

 

[boradicus]

boradicus. I returned to your website
http://intp2entp.wikispaces.com/The+purpose+of+the+INTP+to+ENTP+Project
because you indicated you wanted to get back on topic. I recall when I had gone to it originally on Feb 24 I had naively clicked on a link there not quite realizing it was an ad and puzzling if it was connected to your project.

Here is the link and I wonder what you think of it --
#1 Guide to Social Skills

Notice the amazing alternate title is
Introvert = Loser

Apparently you did not see my earlier humorous post about this link.

Obviously, whoever created that was an ESFJ! LOL -

 

[boradicus]

I suggest if you want to start becoming more like an ENTP move on from your inquiry stage and start your experiment physically.

We can debate theories until the cows come home. We can't provide proof towards your claims because nobody has achieved what you are after (and collected valuable data from it). If anything I would love for you to come on here with strong evidence collected from your experiment. Atleast this way it doesn't make all the debates rely purely on the hypothetical which have no end in sight.

And please try to be less condescending towards others with all your 'lack of intelligence' drivel. It does you no favours.

As an educated guess I think you'll end up like I/E NTP (about 57% I and 43% E) if you keep at it. I doubt you'll ever be able to get the reverse of your 'current' Introverted (71.05%) and Extraverted (28.95%) results.

Prove me wrong!

Thanks for your response. Sorry about the 'drivel' lol - even 'I' get frustrated after a while

 

[boradicus]

Shouldn't you see the value in the kind of self-reflection I was trying to share with Adymus?

The ridiculous thing is, we're not even all that different from each other.

I agreed with Adymus that we would drop this topic, so I don't want to continue on its tangent too long, but after re-reading your post, I apologize. You are right, I misread your post entirely. I think I read too quickly and missed the consistency of your neutrality. It is easy for me to make mistakes whilst defending my world view lol - once again, Lithorn, I apologize.

Please forgive me.

 

[Lithorn]

Accepted.

 

[Beat Mango]

What happened to this

 

[Kokoro]

What happened to this

You can follow his progress on his wikispaces page. It looks like his last journal entry was April 22.

 

[boradicus]

You can follow his progress on his wikispaces page. It looks like his last journal entry was April 22.

I am researching at my leisure =). The Emotion Machine by Minsky has been quite interesting so far and I think that the answers there are insightful and have inspired a new project so to speak =)

Findings so far from my personal observations would tend to support the concept that the degree to which we are equipped or prepared to deal with situations in which we interface with many other people would reinforce such modes of recharging as a preferential: in other words - I believe we all have capacities for recharging by ourselves and for recharging around others - but that our particular skill-sets and natural abilities tend to reinforce the environments we choose. Conversely, supportive environments tend to reinforce our skill-sets =)!

I am basically still studying but am in no particular hurry =) Thanks for your query, =) - B

 

[Beat Mango]

I'm curious whether your attempted extroversion involves the Fe trying-to-get-on-with-everyone thing. Or do you still tell some people to f off? The ENTP I know would talk to everyone but not necessarily like them.

 

[boradicus]

I've not told anyone to ___ off - and I have no use for useless quibbles. Take care Mr. mango - this line of communication is now gone!

 

[EyeNTP]

What happened to your videos?