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The future of humankind

Gyppo

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#1
When the land becomes uninhabitable, wouldn't it be more viable to colonise the bottom of the oceans than to blast off into space?
 

Lagomorph

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#2
Given the degree of interconnection between terrestrial and aquatic environments, anything that makes the land uninhabitable will likely also make aquatic worlds uninhabitable as well.

But also, why limit ourselves to a single option?
 

Gyppo

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#3
Rising sea levels? Droughts and floods?

Anyway, we can harness power from ocean currents and of course there's atmosphere down there. We'd also find a load of mad creatures whereas there aren't any martians :(
 

Lagomorph

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#4
I was thinking more along the lines of radioactive fallout. I think we can deal with sea level rise and changes in precipitation patterns.

I think humanity has to fix itself before it worries about any external threats. Society is its own biggest threat.
 

Gyppo

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#5
I was working with the assumption no one would launch nuclear weapons. But I guess if anyone were going to do that, they wouldn't consider the sensibility of their options anyway.

I just find it odd that people are so obsessed with space when there's nothing out there. Great expenses to live on a giant rock with no food, water, any kind of resources.
 

Gyppo

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#6
People aren't planning on dealing with those issues.

We are gonna move at some point. I just think it ought to be down. Maybe I just take too much delight in the idea of the answer having been right under our noses this whole time.
 

Lagomorph

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#7
Space has the allure of a blank slate, but I'd expect the same societal problems to re-manifest, even from a select small group of founders. Same with Little Mermaid re-enactors.

Keep in mind that money is basically just a mental representation of value; a myth that can be printed or subjectively enhanced at will: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
 

Gyppo

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#8
Dawg, why do you have such an interest in the little mermaid, alice in wonderland, etc. You're a grown man.
 

Gyppo

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#9
I guess the main argument for space would be that symbolically, going up into the sky is more culturally pleasant than submerging into the depths, becoming bottom feeders.
 

Lagomorph

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#10
Dawg, why do you have such an interest in the little mermaid, alice in wonderland, etc. You're a grown man.
1. Cartoons are full of symbolism and emotionality, and not only that, the emotion is expressed visually and fantastically, in a way that's easy to grasp.

2. There is additional symbolism in that many Disney stories are adaptations of fables or occult teachings. The former makes for a readily available pop culture reference when I want to teach or demonstrate the latter.

3. It's not that I have an interest in cartoons so much as I just remember them.
I guess the main argument for space would be that symbolically, going up into the sky is more pleasant than submerging into the depths, becoming bottom feeders.
Assuming the ocean fills with people or becomes uninhabitable, we'd be going to space anyway.
 

Gyppo

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#11
The oceans aren't going to fill with people, they're pretty damn big. If they become uninhabitable of course we'd have to clear out but there's also a possibility they'll hold out much longer than the surface world.

Do you have anything constructive to say? I sort of envisioned ideas building off each other rather than yes no yes no. What have we learnt?
 

Lagomorph

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#12
The oceans aren't going to fill with people, they're pretty damn big. If they become uninhabitable of course we'd have to clear out but there's also a possibility they'll hold out much longer than the surface world.

Do you have anything constructive to say? I sort of envisioned ideas building off each other rather than yes no yes no. What have we learnt?
It's not just a size thing, it could be an issue of resource density and accessibility as well, like what if 10x more underwater space is required to produce food at such a depth, or what if undersea colonies can only easily be established in geothermal hot spots?

Ironically, I also think there's likely to be significant overlap in the technology required to breathe in both environments, which adds more weight to non-exclusivity.

What's there constructive to say in response to such a speculative OP? Also, the quality of your responses dictates the quality of mine. Look at this thread for a comparison.
 

Rook

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#15
I remember one Auburn stating something to the fact of: Terraform the Sahara before Mars.

Space is not the problem, resources are. You can cram humans into towers like termites and they'll go on fucking 'slong the water is drinkable and food is plentiful.

GM fungi, create farms in the unexploited caves of earth. GMd fungi stools grow large or uniform, bred to produce animal-like protein. GM seaweeds for underwater farms harvested by the needy or solar powered submersibles. Look at cities: Humans can be content with lack of space. Lack of sustenance a rebellion breeds.

Generate electricity by simple turbines for every home. Government distributes food and controls a set electricity qouta. Sewage systems are converted into biomass generators. If population growth continues unabated and technology matches it, expect communism in all but name. If not, expect localized anarchy and genocide, and then either a reset or merely the same old same old. Utopia? Some places perhaps, yes, as of now some cities can call themselves Utopian.

Once cheaper forms of desalination exist and food can be grown in great protoplasmic vats, we might all scurry into our concrete planet like satiated little rats.
 

redbaron

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#16
make the calahari desert the calamari desert

it's only a one letter difference, should be easy
 

Cognisant

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#17
The moon is a great place to colonize, for everything it lacks it has energy in abundance, once you have enough energy you can make and recycle everything you need.
 

Gyppo

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#18
I remember one Auburn stating something to the fact of: Terraform the Sahara before Mars.

Space is not the problem, resources are. You can cram humans into towers like termites and they'll go on fucking 'slong the water is drinkable and food is plentiful.

GM fungi, create farms in the unexploited caves of earth. GMd fungi stools grow large or uniform, bred to produce animal-like protein. GM seaweeds for underwater farms harvested by the needy or solar powered submersibles. Look at cities: Humans can be content with lack of space. Lack of sustenance a rebellion breeds.

Generate electricity by simple turbines for every home. Government distributes food and controls a set electricity qouta. Sewage systems are converted into biomass generators. If population growth continues unabated and technology matches it, expect communism in all but name. If not, expect localized anarchy and genocide, and then either a reset or merely the same old same old. Utopia? Some places perhaps, yes, as of now some cities can call themselves Utopian.

Once cheaper forms of desalination exist and food can be grown in great protoplasmic vats, we might all scurry into our concrete planet like satiated little rats.
I want to crawl into your brain and die. What do you do for a living btw?
 

Gyppo

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#19
Ah, farmhand. Makes sense.
I hope you're a writer, too.

Ah, that too has been answered. Very good

I'm probs gonna go live in the mountains somewhere
 

Serac

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#20
To me it sounds like an awesome plan. Tell this to Elon Musk before he goes bankrupt.

Keep in mind that money is basically just a mental representation of value; a myth that can be printed or subjectively enhanced at will: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
Enhanced subjectively? I don't think you can do that with real currency.
 

Lagomorph

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#21
Keep in mind that money is basically just a mental representation of value; a myth that can be printed or subjectively enhanced at will: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
Enhanced subjectively? I don't think you can do that with real currency.
This is about to devolve into a derail, but even if "real" currency is somehow objective, there's always a subjective interface between it and individuals that determines value.

Unless there's something I'm not understanding, which is possible, in which case you should slap me with those facts.
 

Serac

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#22
Keep in mind that money is basically just a mental representation of value; a myth that can be printed or subjectively enhanced at will: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
Enhanced subjectively? I don't think you can do that with real currency.
This is about to devolve into a derail, but even if "real" currency is somehow objective, there's always a subjective interface between it and individuals that determines value.

Unless there's something I'm not understanding, which is possible, in which case you should slap me with those facts.
what do you mean by subjective interface though. Currency is just a denominator of value. It doesn't need to have value on its own. People have used all kinds of stuff as currency in the past: pebbles, seashells, salt, cigarettes, etc. It's just some stuff which comes in a limited supply and is agreed upon as a medium of value in a society. But you as an individual cannot unilaterally decide what that medium is, or what the exchange rate of that medium is against actual stuff like food and so on.
 
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#23
i think there's too many babies being born for a world changing genius not to be amongst them.
so i find it hard to believe that the land would ever become uninhabitable.
heck there's a baby that's been born already that will solve the fukushima disaster, think about that for a second.
 
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#24
i think there's too many babies being born for a world changing genius not to be amongst them.
so i find it hard to believe that the land would ever become uninhabitable.
heck there's a baby that's been born already that will solve the fukushima disaster, think about that for a second.
Sure, there's a lot of clever people being born. But why would they be motivated to help humanity or even have an interest in things other than their own immediate lives?

Geniuses don't automatically want to work with or study topics that will improve humanity.

Even if they are interested, an interest and passion wont change people and people's desire for money and power. Why would people invest in a better future for human kind if they personally are able to profit in short term investments that benefit them during their short lives?
 

Rook

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#25
Why would people invest in a better future for human kind if they personally are able to profit in short term investments that benefit them during their short lives?
Yes. True, altruism of effectuation is a rare extravagence among us. Irrational altruism or apathy(selfishness might be a congruent term) reign supreme.

Yet @ayanah, a valid point you raise. Genius on the scale you suggest however is not something to be predicted or expected, due to its very nature it surpasses quantifucation via normal statistical means (Basically: If I breed a million bacteria instead of a thousand, one of them are bound to be immortal and gifted with a photonic sentience that grows from the presence of its kin!)

Yet you are right: One person can still change this entire planet by way of thought and actuation . Einstein and the planetary changes issuing from his insights is one such example of biological serendipity.
 
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#26
Sure, there's a lot of clever people being born. But why would they be motivated to help humanity or even have an interest in things other than their own immediate lives?

Geniuses don't automatically want to work with or study topics that will improve humanity.

Even if they are interested, an interest and passion wont change people and people's desire for money and power. Why would people invest in a better future for human kind if they personally are able to profit in short term investments that benefit them during their short lives?
no no i specifically said "a world changing genius."
no ifs and or buts about it.
pretty sure you can find a newspaper article of 20 kids allegedly having a higher IQ than einstein, whatever the relative measure may be.
just 1 has to make a discovery that changes everything, and it doesn't have to be free energy or what have you.

here's one, say we somehow stave off nuclear war for the next 2 decades but over the course of those 2 decades no solution to the fukushima disaster is found yet.
everyone is up in arms, radiation has been leaking into the worlds oceans for decades and no one has a clue how to fix it, everyone is anti-nuclear in the hardest stance as the worlds oceans fish have been radiation poisoned.
suddenly, some genius kid over there -> devises a way to clean radiation.
everything changes in an instant.

you can apply this to any problem, there is no issue that can't be fixed by having more babies cause one of those babies likely has the solution you're looking for.
i mean shit i ask myself constantly why people in wartorn countries would be having children if not born out of organised rape, cause one of those kids might have the solution to everything.
special chimp that one over there
 
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#28
People don't have genius world changing ideas without the right conducive culture shaping them and many contributions from others.
more often than not progress comes from those who initially started their journey outside the "elite" and likely paired with a trying upbringing, it teaches resolve.

regardless the simple desire for anyone to give their own children the best opportunities will in some roundabout way lead to society not collapsing into an std ridden orgy fest with guns.

plus with the proliferation of sports and the sheer viability of their market offerings i don't see any fathomable way for the culture itself to be undone due to meta-storylines always being on offer.

i must also add that meaningful progress can come from literally anywhere.
if someone writes a world changing piece of fiction that is meaningful progress, if someone writes a new piece of music that resonates with the collective en masse then that is progress, likewise is some dutch kid thinking up some way to recycle plastic.
it might not be The way but even an advancement on our current thoughts is meaningful progress.

this is happening all the time and it reinforces the culture while at the same time undoing it's foundations, such is life.
but current culture wars are dealing with that issue in appropriate ways now so it's not an issue.

i wouldn't be worried about nuclear war btw, i would be more concerned about geostorm fucking up the weather.
 
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#29
I actually saw a documentary on plastic the other day. They pretty much concluded that loads of people are coming up with practical solutions but that it isn't enough without completely cutting out plastic production asap. It's already in everything and everyone in vast quantities. You've sort of won me over but I can still find reasons to forecast doom and misery.
 
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#30
I actually saw a documentary on plastic the other day. They pretty much concluded that loads of people are coming up with practical solutions but that it isn't enough without completely cutting out plastic production asap. It's already in everything and everyone in vast quantities. You've sort of won me over but I can still find reasons to forecast doom and misery.
well there's always plenty of reasons to forecast doom.

-impending World government
-impending police state
-gender wars
-AI and the inevitable cartoonification of humanity
-std's and unviable mating strategies
-fukushima disaster is still ongoing
-haarp is now the fireworks to whatever missile they have hidden in the back.

I've likely missed a few but one can always forecast doom lol, I would like to think there are enough good people in high places for shit not to go pear shaped though.
 
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#32
What do you all make of the notion that solutions are just problems that haven't had time to develop?: http://www.sigervanbrabant.be/docs/Diamond.PDF
interesting way of saying it.
i was always under the impression that any new solutions to anything would unearth new problems that were unforseen.

for instance, we cured polio, but doing so made us susceptible to HIV/AIDS by us creating the virus in the process of curing the old one.
we have next to free energy but we can't clean up it's waste.
we have hybrid tech but making it is as environmentally taxing as the life cycle of nonhybrid tech.
we have a working political system but its meanderings upset the public to the point of rioting.

when genetic engineering of people becomes a thing and joe public can make designer babies, what will the criminals do with that same technology?
 
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#33
when genetic engineering of people becomes a thing and joe public can make designer babies, what will the criminals do with that same technology?

Interesting stuff!

Let us ponder:

Human traffickers might now open human farms, where set templates are created. Clients can order a product of this and this appearance, age, race, gender, mutation....

Slum factories throw interglobal labour on its head as increased tempo growth tanks pump out mature animal-humans who do manual labor.. illegal mines, armies!

Companies of mercenary super soldiers (ww2 sci dreams repeat)

Organ tanks: Humans sedate with ability to regrow harvested organs. Lives saved, lives enslaved.

Ofc such technology costs a lot now, mostly not yet extant... Slavery as of old still easier, only components: Human and food. Hmm... Some countries care more for their slaves, give them grants and medicine. Others...
 
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#34
this dude got dark so quickly yo.
jesus
here i was satisfied with saying the tech should be locked away because super soldiers being employed by mafia's and drug gangs is not on.

...but then this dude
a mail order groom/bride with hand picked genetics, minimal maintenance required.
*baby making optional*
such a scheme makes money quick when introduced to hollyweird.
 
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