The Experience of 'Eureaka!'

[Duxwing]

Dear Forum,

As someone who thinks deeply and often, from time to time I am rewarded with moments of incredible euphoria when I make a discovery, "blow away" the details of a system to reveal its essence via intuition, or finally, truly understand something greater than myself. And it is this sense of euphoric connection to something greater, a 'universal intelligence,' if you will, that can sometimes mark these episodes. It isn't often, but when I'm not paying attention to the Absurd, the sensation is just like what I imagine it would feel like to discover Truth; the feeling is intense but fleeting, and I'm often drained afterwards. Yet, I wish that I could use the powers of this intuition more often, but how?

-Duxwing

 

[own8ge]

Meditation or Weed.
Trust me (it works)

EDIT: I would say: At first you will reach what you want. You might even reach enlightenment and oneness with the extern/universe. Soon enough you will reach depression as there is "no way back" and you might even long to ignorance. However, this can be outweigh by reaching oneness/acceptance with/of your (new) self.

 

[Duxwing]

Meditation or Weed.
Trust me (it works)

EDIT: I would say: At first you will reach what you want. You might even reach enlightenment and oneness with the extern/universe. Soon enough you will reach depression as there is "no way back" and you might even long to ignorance. However, this can be outweigh by reaching oneness/acceptance with/of your (new) self.

I've already gotten to nihilism; the only way out is up. Right now, I'm just trying to develop a philosophy by which I can live without being plagued by despair, angst, meaniglessness, hopelessness, et. al. Therefore, I'd like to be in top mental form so as to achieve this aforementioned enlightenment as soon as possible; hence my desire to use the intuition that I described more often.

Moreover, I'd rather not use marijuana, for it is not only illegal and damaging to the lungs and brain, but a substance that impedes logical thought, which performs the critical function of verifying my intuition's conclusions before they become entrenched in my psyche.

However, meditation appears to be a promising route to such enlightenment, albeit a slow one. Yet I may already be doing so by musing, so what is the difference between the former and the latter with regard to maintaining intuition output?

-Duxwing

 

[Vrecknidj]

...Therefore, I'd like to be in top mental form so as to achieve this aforementioned enlightenment as soon as possible; hence my desire to use the intuition that I described more often.

Why the rush?

However, meditation appears to be a promising route to such enlightenment, albeit a slow one. Yet I may already be doing so by musing, so what is the difference between the former and the latter with regard to maintaining intuition output?

Yoga might be useful.

Check her about page: http://www.seanecorn.com/

Dave

 

[LarsMac]

You'll never get there in a hurry.
The 70s were full of people looking for instant enlightenment.

 

[own8ge]

Moreover, I'd rather not use marijuana, for it is not only illegal and damaging to the lungs and brain, but a substance that impedes logical thought, which performs the critical function of verifying my intuition's conclusions before they become entrenched in my psyche.

I don't agree with your viewpoint on marijuana.
You say it's a substance that impedes logical thought. But hang on, Intuition is not a logical process. And if you wish to Judge your intuitive output, you lose your meditative state (Whether you are on weed or not). If you wish to reach "a higher state", you have to commit to your "soul".
Not to debate your soul! (You could debate yourself, but not your soul.)

 

[Duxwing]

You'll never get there in a hurry.
The 70s were full of people looking for instant enlightenment.

No rush, I'd just rather not beat around the bush any more; perhaps it's Si rearing its ugly head, but I figure improving my Ni is a goal worthy of continual effort because I need another day of existential despair like I need another hole in my head.

I don't agree with your viewpoint on marijuana.
You say it's a substance that impedes logical thought. But hang on, Intuition is not a logical process. And if you wish to Judge your intuitive output, you lose your meditative state (Whether you are on weed or not). If you wish to reach "a higher state", you have to commit to your "soul".
Not to debate your soul! (You could debate yourself, but not your soul.)

Don't forget the damage to the lungs (if smoked) and the brain (regardless of method). Nevertheless, you and I must be doing it differently, for every few minutes during contemplation I switch back over to Judging just to keep my logic sound; while doing so, I keep the 'meditative state' running in the background and return to it quickly once done.

And yet I have a hunch that such checking reveals that I may be nervous--too nervous-- about becoming attached to the wrong idea. I'll try the yoga, but I worry (haha) that I'll break the trance state by concentrating on it.

-Duxwing

 

[Philovitist]

Nice job reaching nihilism. No matter how much it hurts, there is no turning back. You now see things as they are. What's left to do, it seems, is to find a source of light in this tunnel.

I'm pretty deeply involved in this quest, too. How well I can tell you I'm doing depends on my mood. Right now I feel extremely great, happy to be alive! Less than twelve hours ago, I was taking the idea of suicide seriously for the first time in a while. That might be more of a teenager thing than a nihilist thing. But either way, it highlights a fundamental problem of nihilism, or, perhaps more specifically, living as a nihilist (existential nihilism is foolproof!!) — it strips us of resilience.

I'm sure you've seen the xkcd image on nihilism. It's awesome, it's profound, it makes certain once and for all that nihilism doesn't necessarily equal depression. Optimistically, it should equal possibilities. Opportunity. Deep control over your own destiny. Things aren't that great.

Nihilism creates detachment from your values; makes you see them as they are — hollow, derivative. Senseless. Value isn't intrinsic — things are valuable for reasons, and none of these reasons are valuable in and of themselves.

What matters depends almost entirely on the brain you have right now, both how it was when it first materialized and how it changed over your life. And none of the forces impacting your brain's first or current structure are sacred or meaningful. Like a tree falling in a forest when no one is around to hear it, no one fucking cares.

We humans reject the naturalistic fallacy as a justification of human values because nature is essentially valueless. Yet, we are natural. Valuation is a natural process organisms evolved for coordinating behavior. Value, however, is a lie.

Values are the echoes of our preferences that we mistake as cries from the universe.

Aware that our values aren't justified since they were never rational, we have trouble taking them seriously. Life, instead a stand for what is right, becomes a question of much am I willing to exert in order to obtain my favorite flavor of ice cream.

Despite this rant and because of my mood, though, I know that this isn't the case. I love life. Every experience just seems so worth it. The future just seems so interesting. The guy who was considering suicide seems so much more than 12 hours away.

At what point am I "to my senses"? At my high or in my low? I wish the answer were more straightforward, but it all depends. :S

 

[Duxwing]

Nice job reaching nihilism. No matter how much it hurts, there is no turning back. You now see things as they are. What's left to do, it seems, is to find a source of light in this tunnel.

I'm pretty deeply involved in this quest, too. How well I can tell you I'm doing depends on my mood. Right now I feel extremely great, happy to be alive! Less than twelve hours ago, I was taking the idea of suicide seriously for the first time in a while. That might be more of a teenager thing than a nihilist thing. But either way, it highlights a fundamental problem of nihilism, or, perhaps more specifically, living as a nihilist (existential nihilism is foolproof!!) — it strips us of resilience.

I'm sure you've seen the xkcd image on nihilism. It's awesome, it's profound, it makes certain once and for all that nihilism doesn't necessarily equal depression. Optimistically, it should equal possibilities. Opportunity. Deep control over your own destiny. Things aren't that great.

Nihilism creates detachment from your values; makes you see them as they are — hollow, derivative. Senseless. Value isn't intrinsic — things are valuable for reasons, and none of these reasons are valuable in and of themselves.

What matters depends almost entirely on the brain you have right now, both how it was when it first materialized and how it changed over your life. And none of the forces impacting your brain's first or current structure are sacred or meaningful. Like a tree falling in a forest when no one is around to hear it, no one fucking cares.

We humans reject the naturalistic fallacy as a justification of human values because nature is essentially valueless. Yet, we are natural. Valuation is a natural process organisms evolved for coordinating behavior. Value, however, is a lie.

Values are the echoes of our preferences that we mistake as cries from the universe.

Aware that our values aren't justified since they were never rational, we have trouble taking them seriously. Life, instead a stand for what is right, becomes a question of much am I willing to exert in order to obtain my favorite flavor of ice cream.

Despite this rant and because of my mood, though, I know that this isn't the case. I love life. Every experience just seems so worth it. The future just seems so interesting. The guy who was considering suicide seems so much more than 12 hours away.

At what point am I "to my senses"? At my high or in my low? I wish the answer were more straightforward, but it all depends. :S

Another traveler in the Void, astounding! I know how much it hurts when the Truth we staked our lives upon becomes naught but a shadow upon the Nothingness, so have a *hug*.

Although we can never un-ring the bell of knowledge struck hard within our memories, we can at least offer one other some comfort, however meager.

-Duxwing

 

[Etheri]

I've already gotten to nihilism; the only way out is up. Right now, I'm just trying to develop a philosophy by which I can live without being plagued by despair, angst, meaniglessness, hopelessness, et. al. Therefore, I'd like to be in top mental form so as to achieve this aforementioned enlightenment as soon as possible; hence my desire to use the intuition that I described more often.

Moreover, I'd rather not use marijuana, for it is not only illegal and damaging to the lungs and brain, but a substance that impedes logical thought, which performs the critical function of verifying my intuition's conclusions before they become entrenched in my psyche.

However, meditation appears to be a promising route to such enlightenment, albeit a slow one. Yet I may already be doing so by musing, so what is the difference between the former and the latter with regard to maintaining intuition output?

-Duxwing

Inconsistent reasoning : You do not value anything (paragraph 1). You use the value of your body, your environment and logical thought as premises to come to the conclusion that you shouldn't use weed (paragraph 2).
I think you and I secretly both realise there is no absolute enlightenment, no fix, no answer to all your questions and problems. Or perhaps there is, but neither of us will ever find it. I know I repeat this often, but it's a statement I can logically defend : while there might not be absolute or intrinsic value, that does not mean you can't value things. In fact, you do, beyond a doubt, value things. Is this not enough?

Nice job reaching nihilism. No matter how much it hurts, there is no turning back. You now see things as they are. What's left to do, it seems, is to find a source of light in this tunnel.

I'm pretty deeply involved in this quest, too. How well I can tell you I'm doing depends on my mood. Right now I feel extremely great, happy to be alive! Less than twelve hours ago, I was taking the idea of suicide seriously for the first time in a while. That might be more of a teenager thing than a nihilist thing. But either way, it highlights a fundamental problem of nihilism, or, perhaps more specifically, living as a nihilist (existential nihilism is foolproof!!) — it strips us of resilience.

I'm sure you've seen the xkcd image on nihilism. It's awesome, it's profound, it makes certain once and for all that nihilism doesn't necessarily equal depression. Optimistically, it should equal possibilities. Opportunity. Deep control over your own destiny. Things aren't that great.

Nihilism creates detachment from your values; makes you see them as they are — hollow, derivative. Senseless. Value isn't intrinsic — things are valuable for reasons, and none of these reasons are valuable in and of themselves.

What matters depends almost entirely on the brain you have right now, both how it was when it first materialized and how it changed over your life. And none of the forces impacting your brain's first or current structure are sacred or meaningful. Like a tree falling in a forest when no one is around to hear it, no one fucking cares.

We humans reject the naturalistic fallacy as a justification of human values because nature is essentially valueless. Yet, we are natural. Valuation is a natural process organisms evolved for coordinating behavior. Value, however, is a lie.

Values are the echoes of our preferences that we mistake as cries from the universe.

Aware that our values aren't justified since they were never rational, we have trouble taking them seriously. Life, instead a stand for what is right, becomes a question of much am I willing to exert in order to obtain my favorite flavor of ice cream.

Despite this rant and because of my mood, though, I know that this isn't the case. I love life. Every experience just seems so worth it. The future just seems so interesting. The guy who was considering suicide seems so much more than 12 hours away.

At what point am I "to my senses"? At my high or in my low? I wish the answer were more straightforward, but it all depends. :S

For someone who was contemplating suicide only very recently, this post truly was thoughtful and eloquent. You've earned yourself a cookie. I wonder if you realise the subtle genius answer you put at the very end : "I wish the answer were more straightforward, but it all depends". I'd see this as a reply to the entire thread in itself.

Edit : Oh and if you ever consider suicide again, please reread your post before you off yourself

 

[own8ge]

Don't forget the damage to the lungs (if smoked) and the brain (regardless of method).

I admire you. It damages the lungs and the brain? I lol. I lol hard.

And yet I have a hunch that such checking reveals that I may be nervous--too nervous-- about becoming attached to the wrong idea. I'll try the yoga, but I worry (haha) that I'll break the trance state by concentrating on it.

What is wrong? There is no wrong. Do you perhaps mean detached from reality? Subjective logic that externally makes no sense?



Perhaps somewhat more personal, but I don't mean this offensive in any way.
I don't think you are ready, to reach a higher state.

 

[Duxwing]

Inconsistent reasoning : You do not value anything (paragraph 1). You use the value of your body, your environment and logical thought as premises to come to the conclusion that you shouldn't use weed (paragraph 2).
I think you and I secretly both realise there is no absolute enlightenment, no fix, no answer to all your questions and problems. Or perhaps there is, but neither of us will ever find it. I know I repeat this often, but it's a statement I can logically defend : while there might not be absolute or intrinsic value, that does not mean you can't value things. In fact, you do, beyond a doubt, value things. Is this not enough?



For someone who was contemplating suicide only very recently, this post truly was thoughtful and eloquent. You've earned yourself a cookie. I wonder if you realise the subtle genius answer you put at the very end : "I wish the answer were more straightforward, but it all depends". I'd see this as a reply to the entire thread in itself.

Edit : Oh and if you ever consider suicide again, please reread your post before you off yourself

I know that it's illogical, but my will doesn't last forever; I'm only human, not a true free agent. Valuing something isn't impossible, but rather illogical and therefore self-evidently reprehensible.

But wait, is it? Perhaps I am like Spock: despite my reasoning, madly believing that the ideal is a purely logical being. Perhaps I've grown to worship reason and its uses as a sort of holy act whose shining light shall expel the darkness of feeling once and, if my thought reaches others, for all.

If not truly self-evident, such notions of Truth would be, though often admired by thinkers everywhere, clearly arbitrary and indicative of an unhealthy relationship with one's emotions: even as I write this very sentence, I feel the pain of an ego defense mechanism being uprooted-- perhaps you are right.

-Duxwing

 

[Fghw]

Nice job reaching nihilism. No matter how much it hurts, there is no turning back. You now see things as they are. What's left to do, it seems, is to find a source of light in this tunnel.

I'm pretty deeply involved in this quest, too. How well I can tell you I'm doing depends on my mood. Right now I feel extremely great, happy to be alive! Less than twelve hours ago, I was taking the idea of suicide seriously for the first time in a while. That might be more of a teenager thing than a nihilist thing. But either way, it highlights a fundamental problem of nihilism, or, perhaps more specifically, living as a nihilist (existential nihilism is foolproof!!) — it strips us of resilience.

I'm sure you've seen the xkcd image on nihilism. It's awesome, it's profound, it makes certain once and for all that nihilism doesn't necessarily equal depression. Optimistically, it should equal possibilities. Opportunity. Deep control over your own destiny. Things aren't that great.

Nihilism creates detachment from your values; makes you see them as they are — hollow, derivative. Senseless. Value isn't intrinsic — things are valuable for reasons, and none of these reasons are valuable in and of themselves.

What matters depends almost entirely on the brain you have right now, both how it was when it first materialized and how it changed over your life. And none of the forces impacting your brain's first or current structure are sacred or meaningful. Like a tree falling in a forest when no one is around to hear it, no one fucking cares.

We humans reject the naturalistic fallacy as a justification of human values because nature is essentially valueless. Yet, we are natural. Valuation is a natural process organisms evolved for coordinating behavior. Value, however, is a lie.

Values are the echoes of our preferences that we mistake as cries from the universe.

Aware that our values aren't justified since they were never rational, we have trouble taking them seriously. Life, instead a stand for what is right, becomes a question of much am I willing to exert in order to obtain my favorite flavor of ice cream.

Despite this rant and because of my mood, though, I know that this isn't the case. I love life. Every experience just seems so worth it. The future just seems so interesting. The guy who was considering suicide seems so much more than 12 hours away.

At what point am I "to my senses"? At my high or in my low? I wish the answer were more straightforward, but it all depends. :S

Values are the INTP's secret to success. Without them, we just think thoughts nobody wants to hear for no reason. We thus become the inferior little brother of the active and motivated ENTP.

In a realistic sense, values are an evolutionary necesity for INTPs. Embrace them! lest we all die out.