The Dark Side?

[o.o]

I was randomly browsing the interwebz and stumbled upon yet another INTP profile. I found this one rather displeasing, but considering that I am a rather textbook description, I couldn't disagree too much with the content. Just a bunch of blocked up words and commas... /eyesocketblood

So... Among the myriad adjectives was this phrase: "familiar with the dark side". I interpreted the connotations of familiarity as “well acquainted” rather than simply aware. I found it to be an extremely odd description and probably inapplicable to the entire INTP forum. The profile was on the projective subjective side, yes, but the "dark side" is a rather offsetting addition... And given my apparent lack of SF, I might want to think over or even consider worrying about it at some point.

Granted, the phrase mostly conjures images of goths or vampire slayers... However, in a less glamorized and/or histrionic take of the phrase, plenty of people genuinely understand and experience the "dark side" of life.

* External darkness: (happenstance, perhaps)
~Murder or violence, rape, suicide, exploitation, oppression, extreme poverty
~Mild: bullying, dissonance with peers


(Etcetera until you’re creeped out and feeling awkward.)

* Internal darkness: (relevant to personality)
~Extreme: Self mutilation, severe addiction and substance abuse, severe depression, antisocial personality disorder
~Mild: morbid humor, violent or dark fascinations, misanthropic

(Etcetera until you’re significantly depressed.)

I realize some examples fit in both external and internal categories depending on whether they are experienced or committed... I also realize that the list is lacking, it’s all I could come up with on the fly and I encourage peer suggested additions.

So… I consider myself a somewhat "normal" human being (if by "normal" you mean decently functional and acceptable by typical societal standards) with a (perhaps) abnormal record of "dark" experiences. I can easily, though not unabashedly, concede to experiencing several of said examples (internal and external).

So… I was wondering a few things… you INTPs… yeah, all of you… o.o … are you familiar with the characteristics of the dark side of life that are relevant to personality? Can you think of more examples that fit into that category? Are you willing to share them and/or those that are specific to you?

Familiar with those that may be happenstance? Examples? Share?
What is your opinion on this subject? Do you think “familiarity with the dark side of life” is a likely INTP trait? What do you think it means?

 

[Cognisant]

I suppose this "darkness" is a metaphor for the influence of certain stimuli that prompts us to stray from the generally accepted (stereotypical?) model of mental health/functionality.

The asshole reflex is a good example (yes I just came up with it), when someone is stressed, angry, insecure in otherwise distressed they become more disposed to "acting out" on others or their environment, e.g. a boy gets bullied at school, then when he comes home he vandalises his sister's dolls, which obviously without purpose except for making him feel better.

^ Mild example.

 

[Minuend]

It's a tough question, actually.

I associate familiarity with the dark side with depression. Or, rather, familiar to the fact that there's a lot of nasty stuff out there. And we are able to put this knowledge into our view of the world. We are able to see things from an "evil" person's perspective, able to see how the dots connect and understand how the mind can drive you beyond the edge. Some people would immediate shy away from such things, judging them without seeing the necessity of understanding, fearing they would somehow get infected just by being close. Instead, they concentrate on more comfortable things.

I don't think this is accurate, but it's what I associate with it. It's hard to put into words.

 

[bluesquid]

I have always thought of it in the star wars sense.

I personally am drawn to evil. Not to be evil, yet fascinated.

I worry that Im not maximizing myself. Im trying to find the grey area between force and compassion. I tend to err compassion, but know in my heart force is all there truly is absent god. So there is that aspect as well. God. I have great faith in a god. And humanity should thank god for that.

I see the "horror" of this world and I wonder if im setting myself up to be prey. I feel, I could easily dominate in a brutal world, and while I dont want to, should I?

The dark side is knowing you could be an antichrist. You could destroy instead of create. The dark side tells you people are fodder. Cows. You could live so well on the backs of the weak. The dark side says beauty, honor, and compassion are all symptoms of a ephemeral state of being. The dark side says much could be had, or taken. so best to take.

But I believe that there is a god. He has given me all my ability as a test.

timshel

 

[Ermine]

I don't think I'm drawn to the "dark side" as much as I'm just not scared of it. I know I have the ability to destroy, I know there are dark things out there, but I don't feel threatened by that fact.

 

[Decaf]

I don't know if this is applicable as I'm going to read the thread after posting, but oh well

YouTube- Tim Minchin: Dark Side

 

[bluesquid]

I don't know if this is applicable as I'm going to read the thread after posting, but oh well

YouTube- Tim Minchin: Dark Side

do people find him interesting?

 

[Decaf]

do people find him interesting?

<shrug> I'm a big fan. I don't think this is his best song, but I didn't think a song called "If I didn't have you (I'd probably have somebody else)" would work for this thread.

Spoiler

Then again, there's always "Storm".

As it is, I don't think my dark thoughts are any more violent or malevolent than the average persons. It seems an awful generalization to say that a group with a high percentage of outwardly dark members (i.e. goth, punk, etc) must have a correspondingly high percentage of members who are inwardly dark (i.e. selfish, sociopathic, etc). On first glance I might agree that an INTP might be more prone to sociopathic behavior considering the difficulty we often have early in life with social integration, but those kinds of behaviors take many forms.

I think it more like the INTPs are familiar with the "dark side" because we find less reason to avoid it out of a sense of decorum or shame. That we are less able or inclined to hide our interest about almost anything.

Circumcision is self-mutilation that did not originate nor is it continued through the efforts of INTPs. Suicide represents itself in high numbers for any personality that finds itself unable to meet its psychological needs in the culture it inhabits. It is more often done by T's because we tend to allow for the extreme solutions in our problem solving, but if we lived in an INTP society it might be the ESTJs who find themselves the most depressed and thinking about ending it all.

That was perhaps a more aggressive response than required, but I kinda got on a roll...

Are INTPs more familiar with the dark side? Perhaps more comfortable with styles that are less associated with "happy" feelings, but if you take us out of our context, I believe no. The internal dark side is the expression of under-nourished psychological needs. It just happens that there aren't many INTP societies for us to be nourished by.

 

[chloé]

Well, it's all very theoretical to try and link this kind of thing up with MBTI. (My disclaimer.) But: I think that NT types will likely all have the advantage of being intellectually comfortable enough to venture into a dark realm of thinking, if only to explore it to find an independent perspective. Of the NT's, ENTJ's and INTJ's would be less likely to dwell on something like that (even if they took a liking to the dark side, they'd simply settle in and go with it). ENTP's might get a bit more caught up, but they'd take it out on something externally. Which leaves INTP's, who have the most potential (with Ti) to feel ... internally consumed, let's say, by this darkness. So it would make sense to me that INTP's are not only more likely to explore a dark side, but also slightly more disposed to getting entrapped by it, if only temporarily, because they may not easily find a way to channel stress outwardly.

</elaborate theorizing>

 

[cuterebra]

Well, it's all very theoretical to try and link this kind of thing up with MBTI. (My disclaimer.) But: I think that NT types will likely all have the advantage of being intellectually comfortable enough to venture into a dark realm of thinking, if only to explore it to find an independent perspective. Of the NT's, ENTJ's and INTJ's would be less likely to dwell on something like that (even if they took a liking to the dark side, they'd simply settle in and go with it). ENTP's might get a bit more caught up, but they'd take it out on something externally. Which leaves INTP's, who have the most potential (with Ti) to feel ... internally consumed, let's say, by this darkness. So it would make sense to me that INTP's are not only more likely to explore a dark side, but also slightly more disposed to getting entrapped by it, if only temporarily, because they may not easily find a way to channel stress outwardly.

</elaborate theorizing>

I like your answer.

 

[Jaico]

I imagine that this would be from the Similar Minds website? Interestingly enough, it also lists INFPs and INTJs (but not INFJs, oddly) as also being 'familiar with the darkside.'

Anyhow, I think that "familiar with the darkside" is fairly typical for INTPs - after all, dark != evil. Darkness could simply mean the unexplored, the unfamiliar - which INTPs love to go bounding into. I think that a lot of INTPs have a predisposition to go spelunking mentally, and probably end up getting lost in a "dark cave" somewhere - and not mind it at all; the cave may be dark, but it certainly may not be harmful, and the INTP will probably get something meaningful out of the adventure. Psychologically speaking, INTPs (and INFPs - not so sure about those INTJs, though ) are probably more prone to daydreaming/thinking deeply, and then getting stuck in their thoughts (which may or may not be a bad thing). I also think that INTPs have a desire to just explore everything, with social norms and taboos thrown out the window - and so are more likely to explore the "darkside," because they want to know more (or maybe I'm just speaking about myself here...)

Anyhow, to respond to the first question, I've always had a vested interest in mental disorders - especially when it involves the legal system somehow (such as in criminal insanity). There's something about dealing with the hidden and the 'darkness' (if you can call it that) that, while appealing to me, is apparently looked upon with suspicion in most societies.

 

[Adymus]

Well, it's all very theoretical to try and link this kind of thing up with MBTI. (My disclaimer.) But: I think that NT types will likely all have the advantage of being intellectually comfortable enough to venture into a dark realm of thinking, if only to explore it to find an independent perspective. Of the NT's, ENTJ's and INTJ's would be less likely to dwell on something like that (even if they took a liking to the dark side, they'd simply settle in and go with it). ENTP's might get a bit more caught up, but they'd take it out on something externally. Which leaves INTP's, who have the most potential (with Ti) to feel ... internally consumed, let's say, by this darkness. So it would make sense to me that INTP's are not only more likely to explore a dark side, but also slightly more disposed to getting entrapped by it, if only temporarily, because they may not easily find a way to channel stress outwardly.

</elaborate theorizing>

Hell no, if we are going off of the Definitions of dark side listed in the OP, then I would say INTJs take the cake hands down (But INFJs might actually beat them in this, or at least tie.) Ni can be a very adversarial function, frustrated by the world not meeting up to the standards of their own model of perfection.
INTP's slip into Darker thinking every now an then, but Ti is not a worldview (unlike Ni), it is just a logical compass, so we don't dwell in it.

What I think the profile meant, was that we are not afraid to dabble in certain activities and thought experiments for the sake of understanding it. We ignore how the mainstream culture looks at said activities because our own understanding is far more important than what society thinks. For example, I've dabbled in Hallucinogens, Stimulants, Sadomasochism, etc simply to gain new perspectives. In that sense, I am familiar with the "dark side".
On top of this we also have tendencies of ignoring morality in favor of logic. ie: "Genocide and Famine serve a useful purpose as population control." That might be a bit harsh, but you get what I mean.

So essentially: Our understanding > Mainstream morality

 

[echoplex]

I think iNtuiters are generally more tolerant of the dark side, mainly because they're more tolerant of alternative ways of viewing reality. The INFP profile actually says the same thing, so I think it's more of an N thing than a T thing. This tolerance of "dark" thinking probably increases with age to the point that the person probably won't view it as "dark" at all.

And I see Ni (xNxJ) as more prone to the 'extreme' stuff you posted, with Ne (xNxP) being more contemplative and experimental. With Ne it's dabbling, with Ni it's more like a vendetta. Both can have "dark" results though. For instance, an xNTP might kill someone just to know what it's like. (extreme example, but you get what I'm saying)

 

[Adymus]

I think iNtuiters are generally more tolerant of the dark side, mainly because they're more tolerant of alternative ways of viewing reality. The INFP profile actually says the same thing, so I think it's more of an N thing than a T thing. This tolerance of "dark" thinking probably increases with age to the point that the person probably won't view it as "dark" at all.

And I see Ni (xNxJ) as more prone to the 'extreme' stuff you posted, with Ne (xNxP) being more contemplative and experimental. With Ne it's dabbling, with Ni it's more like a vendetta. Both can have "dark" results though. For instance, an xNTP might kill someone just to know what it's like. (extreme example, but you get what I'm saying)

I was focusing on INTPs in particular, but I completely agree with you.

 

[amorfati]

I happen to value autonomy higher than "morality" so I can see where the creator of this profile is coming from.

 

[jhbowden]

I personally am drawn to evil. Not to be evil, yet fascinated.

If you only knew the *full power* of the Dark Side.

 

[Abraxas]

..."familiar with the dark side"....

...of human nature in general, perhaps??

I think iNtuiters are generally more tolerant of the dark side, mainly because they're more tolerant of alternative ways of viewing reality. The INFP profile actually says the same thing, so I think it's more of an N thing than a T thing. This tolerance of "dark" thinking probably increases with age to the point that the person probably won't view it as "dark" at all.

And I see Ni (xNxJ) as more prone to the 'extreme' stuff you posted, with Ne (xNxP) being more contemplative and experimental. With Ne it's dabbling, with Ni it's more like a vendetta. Both can have "dark" results though. For instance, an xNTP might kill someone just to know what it's like. (extreme example, but you get what I'm saying)

I think it might be a "P(erceiving) thing", because most INTPs tend to perceive other peoples qualities objectively and not judge them as good or bad. And as we all know, objective perceiving of something tends to show that something's ups and downs. So that perhaps makes us "familiar with the darkside". For example INTJ on the other hand most likely sees these "qualities of the darkside" manifested in other people just as well as an INTP, but tends to judge them and lower them below his own qualities(of the light??).

 

[EditorOne]

What Chloe said.

Meanwhile, here's my second Eddie and the Cruisers reference in one, lyrics from THEIR "Dark Dide."

The dark side's comin now nothin is real. She'll never know just how I feel. From out of the shadow she walks like a dream, make me feel crazy make me feel so mean. Ain't nothin gonna save me from a love that's blind, slip through to darkside and cross that line- on the dark side.

A whole philosophy in that one movie.