# The Advent of Virtual Immersion

#### Auburn

##### Luftschloss Schöpfer
I suspect it's only a matter of time before virtual full-body immersion occurs at mass levels, which brings me to the questions of this thread....

o) What world would you live in?

o) What would you be like?

In an era where one's identity/self can cease to have physical restrictions, I'm curious as to how your psychology would express itself.

(When one considers that the mind operates via associations - and what we consider 'real' is just within a certain familiar (arbitrary) context/environment of indefinite potential contexts -- the notion of virtual reality will start to become indistinguishable from any other 'reality'. This will also make it possible for certain beings to exist entirely within specific reality-contexts and indefinite contexts with their own laws/fantasies can be generated according to those tastes.)

#### redbaron

##### but why
I would live in a world where I could be permanently nekkid

#### Rook

##### Verily.
It would be quite interesting to live in an representation of our existence, with certain tweaks.
I think I will place myself in an anarchic society wich is technologically advanced. In terms of appearance, things will be much more interesting if one transfers one's exact physical nature into the simulation. Either that, or I'll be a ninja in fuedal Japan.

#### Brontosaurie

##### Banned
i see human progress as moving away from fiction rather than towards immersion in fiction.

#### Cognisant

##### Condescending Bastard
My body wouldn't have all these organs, just tight electroactive polymer muscles on a galvanised titanium skeleton, no skin, every joint running on smooth oiled bearings, the whole body optimised to be light, strong and graceful. Y'know that feeling when you've been exercising for a few weeks/months, when your O2 extraction rate is high and your body fat is low, that feeling of fitness, of being comfortable in your own skin, that's what I want my body to feel, like the understated pleasure of handling something that's well made.

My virtual world is granite and thunderstorms, the terrain is jagged as if skyscraper sized boulders had fallen from the sky, dark clouds rumble, lightning flashes, in the distance the sound of the ocean waves breaking on rock, a cold lifeless world, peaceful in its starkness, beautiful in its violence.

#### Auburn

##### Luftschloss Schöpfer
That's quite curious. o.o
So something like...?

[bimgx=600]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/227/4/2/p_29_by_gabrielwigren-d5b8a9o.jpg[/bimgx]

or
[bimgx=600]http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/156/3/0/light_filled_cavern_by_zacharymclean-d52fas2.jpg[/bimgx]

I wonder, would you feel at peace in this setting? Perhaps 'peace' isn't the experience you're going for... ...which makes me wonder what the experience would be. Is it terror? Is it smallness? ...the feeling of being frail, overwhelmed, and thus 'alive' by the piercing sensations of the surroundings...?

***​

@redbaron - Just nekkid? But there's so much more potential; let your imagination venture into a world boundless!

@rook - Ohh, what would this archaic society be like? What sort of drama would be in those times? Would it be structured in the King>Knights>Peasants format? Where would your 'place' be in this society? And ahhh perhaps your appearance in this present life already suits your psychic sense of self? I think I'd drastically change mine rather than simulate it exactly - with all its acne, messy hair follicles, etc. >.<

@Brontosaurie - Aren't both happening? ...the gamer community has drastically risen from 15 years ago. And a form of immersion (iphones) is happening en mass already, where the common person is partially unconsciously plugged-in to the web through a new adaptation of what is normal. Eventually I see connecting online as being done with a mere thought. If it's achievable (practically speaking) when our hardwares make it possible, what do you think would prevent it from occurring?

#### redbaron

##### but why
Auburn said:
@redbaron - Just nekkid? But there's so much more potential; let your imagination venture into a world boundless!
I figure nekkid is about as boundless as one can get!

Being serious though, I find that my imagination can no longer compare to the complexity of the real world, and the sense of wonder that I gain from studying it. Studying the world around me - namely through biology, chemistry and physics, I realise that there's nothing I can dream of that will match the intricacy of reality.

Over time as I've learned more about the world, imagination has slowly given way to contemplation (of knowledge gained). I'm lucky enough to be born in an age where questions like, 'Why are we here?, 'How did the universe begin?', 'Why is there something instead of nothing?' are no longer questions only to be contemplated in metaphysical and philosophical terms.

Personally, I don't think we'll ever really find the answers to some questions and I'm okay with that. Still I'd rather see what I do learn along the way. I no longer need imagination to contemplate the seemingly absurd and fantastic, that part of me seems to be for lack of a better term...deceased. Not to my despair though, it's probably the most liberating experience of my life up to this point.

Initially I wanted to contribute to this thread in earnest. I think it was an outstanding idea and wanted to contribute, thinking that maybe it was the sort of spark I needed to reignite my imaginative side. However for the reasons stated above it just seemed...hollow. Like watching a movie or reading a book, I knew it was fake and I just couldn't suspend disbelief quite enough to garner any lasting sense of fulfilment from it. I know that this isn't the only point to books and movies - a good movie or book can give insights and understanding beyond its original scope...but this process seems lost to me (again, which I don't despair over).

So now I ask you Auburn, what could be more exciting for me, than to study the real world? I'll tell you:

Studying the real world nekkid

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
So many options. Not sure of the "world" I'd live in, although it would not be confined to one aspect -- i.e., not a total world of horror or one of perfection, it would be some mix, sometimes extreme. With great heights and great depths to scale and/or plunge into.

My primal form would likely be some kind of winged humanoid, with shine and shimmer -- I like the shine and glimmer of colored metal, but not the touch... I wouldn't feel cold and hard, but alive and warm. The wings, like brilliant feathers. Sheens of color. Again, capable of existing within and exploring all of the world.

But my form itself would be more malleable, flowing and shifting like the metal terminator in T2 -- usually still some kind of humanoid shape but not locked in one rigid configuration. Evolving, adaptable, melding to the situation.

Or maybe not. Maybe I'll think differently tomorrow. Maybe I'll just be the kind of quirky unsettling clown face of my avatar, being unpredictable and asking provocative unsettling questions. Maybe I'd have a few guises and not just be locked into one, like the ancient deities who could manifest in different ways.

It's all rather hard to describe.

I wonder, would you feel at peace in this setting? Perhaps 'peace' isn't the experience you're going for... ...which makes me wonder what the experience would be. Is it terror? Is it smallness? ...the feeling of being frail, overwhelmed, and thus 'alive' by the piercing sensations of the surroundings...?
Those are great pictures. My world would contain such places, along with golden meadows with greenish-purple rippling grass and stark sharp mountains. I think I see my world as containing all those things, all experiences, they're all part of meaningfulness.

#### Auburn

##### Luftschloss Schöpfer
@redbaron - I see. A mind that reaps little real satisfaction from creating alternatives/proxies to the present reality, because the present reality itself satisfies that interest/curiosity. o.o I wonder what this means psychologically.

It is curious, isn't it, that in this age just about anything seems possiblee so long as it's through the right methods. Perhaps fiction is simply wrongly-executed-reality..?

(It seems most every form of ancient fantasy now has a theoretical or practical alternative. Alchemy has Transmutation, Spell-casting/potions has Pharmacology (which may soon have nanotechnology added onto it, making incredible things possible), Crystal Ball gazing has Google Earth ;p, Telepathy is under way, so is the fountain of youth, Unicorns and Dragons can theoretically be genetically engineered - and pre-humans engineered back to life - the list is near endless.)

So here's a question that might be more suited to your predicament: could you imagine using this virtual immersion as a way of gaining insight into reality - and if so how would you use it? We'll assume that the hardware is powerful enough to simulate the present laws of nature in it's program (and thus run mach-experiments of any capacity you wish) or run different laws as it's program.

@Jenny - Or the clown in your avatar can just be one of the many forms you'd take - problem solved! ^^

#### redbaron

##### but why
@redbaron - I see. A mind that reaps little real satisfaction from creating alternatives/proxies to the present reality, because the present reality itself satisfies that interest/curiosity. o.o I wonder what this means psychologically.

It is curious, isn't it, that in this age just about anything seems possiblee so long as it's through the right methods. Perhaps fiction is simply wrongly-executed-reality..?

(It seems most every form of ancient fantasy now has a theoretical or practical alternative. Alchemy has Transmutation, Spell-casting/potions has Pharmacology (which may soon have nanotechnology added onto it, making incredible things possible), Crystal Ball gazing has Google Earth ;p, Telepathy is under way, so is the fountain of youth, Unicorns and Dragons can theoretically be genetically engineered - and pre-humans engineered back to life - the list is near endless.)

So here's a question that might be more suited to your predicament: could you imagine using this virtual immersion as a way of gaining insight into reality - and if so how would you use it? We'll assume that the hardware is powerful enough to simulate the present laws of nature in it's program (and thus run mach-experiments of any capacity you wish) or run different laws as it's program.
That's a good question, I hadn't thought of it that way - and wrongly-executed-reality actually seems more accurate the more I think about it.

Anyway, to answer your question. I could imagine using virtual immersion to gain insight. Somewhat ironically, it would be easier to understand certain things about the real world, while removed from the constraints of the real world (distractions, travel times, money, etc). I guess you can draw parallels between this and learning programs that help to teach languages (among other things).

So the biggest one to me would be education. To live in a virtual world, where I could learn the knowledge necessary to allow me to apply to the real world. I'd like to have the convenience of a personal tutor, available at any and all times - to use the virtual tutor to study with an aide at my side, capable of answering any and all questions in the way I need them, while otherwise being a non-factor. Simply out of the way, so as not to distract.

Although, in a way this would feel somewhat disingenuous...I wonder what lazy thinking habits would arise as a result of this - to not go through the arduous process of problem solving and finding answers for oneself. I'm not sure this idea would even be of help at all in that regard. Anyway...

Beyond that, running experiments in a virtual world would be much easier. Being able to literally travel to regions of space (again, assuming the infinite and infallible ability of this virtual program to both recreate the universe in its entirety, as well as allowing me to make changes) and changing them. Like dropping and dragging stars around, observing supernovae real time, or travelling to nebulae and observing star formation in real time, possibly even travelling to the moment of the big bang (or before? ), observing and recording the findings. These are probably the first few things (in a ridiculously long and unfathomably intricate list) I'd think of doing.

I think this is about the limit of what I would want to achieve - the acquisition of what I consider meaningful knowledge. I'm not interested in being, 'happy' or, 'successful' - I just want to learn...everything.

I could fantasize about this more, but I think that the end result is that I would ultimately desire to use something like this to increase my ability to learn and gain knowledge - to further understand how the real world works. I think that, even with the ability to do the things I said, the time it would take to compile, record, reproduce and adequately report on the things I observe would limit the rate at which I could learn things.

Oh and, I'd share this technology with everyone the world over - so that the human race could finally be educated enough to truly begin to understand the universe in its complexity, in the hope that it would further help the human race move towards something truly amazing to be a part of.

#### Kuu

o) What world would you live in?

o) What would you be like?

I detect a quaint singular. Why just one world, why just one me? Why does there even need to be a me that is separate from the world?

Of course one could make a replica of reality or some cheap variation in some fail attempt at self satisfaction through ultimate escapism, but that's lame. Although the idea that it could be so real you confuse the virtual for the real is rather amusing. And just because it happened in your mind, is it any less or more meaningful?

How about a world extremely unlike our own, where all the rules are unlike what we've known, not a parallel world but a different one altogether. A world without planets and humans and gravity and the periodic table. A world utterly bizarre, a veritable work of deity-like creation.

I once had a conversation with a history teacher that asked us to think of the house of the future. I said the house would be a cell-like closed box with a total immersion device and a life support system. Within, unbound by physics, the architectural experience would ultimately morph into an entirely phenomenological experience, a shifting environment of impressions, sensations, emotions...

She called me crazy, I called her obsolete.

Would it really be crazy to think that in a world created entirely by mental perception that it would eventually create a "psychological landscape" perhaps more abstract and pure in a very platonic sense, a world of idea(l)s, instead of the merely figurative deviations from the same old, same old?

And now that we're discussing minds, what becomes of the concept of the individual self?

How about a me that is forced to share a body with another mind, but we have no means of direct communication? How about a me that is disembodied, and can only exist as a voice? How about a me that is distributed among many avatars like a hive mind? How about a me that is actually all the people, simultaneously, but displaced in time, experiencing one and then forced to become the other and live with the consequences of my actions in a different context?

Aren't both happening? ...the gamer community has drastically risen from 15 years ago. And a form of immersion (iphones) is happening en mass already, where the common person is partially unconsciously plugged-in to the web through a new adaptation of what is normal.
Yes, yes, yes that is technological progress. But is it human progress?

#### Auburn

##### Luftschloss Schöpfer
Although the idea that it could be so real you confuse the virtual for the real is rather amusing.
Yes. I could imagine a situation in which an exact replica of one's personal life is run, complete with family and friends, and then something happens. A very realistic conversation with the simulated friend allows one to share things (feeling more safe to share them within a simulation) and via that sharing the friendship deepens. Causing the virtual relationship between the friends to advance further than the physical one.. 0.o

Taking it further, what about entities that are sentient but were created entirely within the virtual context? What about falling in love with one such entity?

How about a world extremely unlike our own, where all the rules are unlike what we've known, not a parallel world but a different one altogether.
Yes..! this is more like it. ;p It's curious to consider that the human psychic equation begins life with near to no expected parameters of the universe. What a "human" is, as we typically conceive it, is but one branch of it's manifestation... ...forced into these specific universal parameters, but what would emerge from it manifesting in other laws from it's very birth, if after all a human is merely an equation of data (of any form) absorption and synthesis?

Yes, yes, yes that is technological progress. But is it human progress?
Do you think the post-human is already starting to arise? ...not that it couldn't happen as a gradient... ;p but I typically differentiate the start/end of the species based on it's genome. I think when we modify our genome, then those born will be something other than human, but the present race seems to be still human - but the human equation manifesting in a different context/environment than ever before. (our human history's also filled with many variations in normalcy through eras which may make us seem like other species at times, but that broad span of variance in what sort of concepts/idea(l)s we form is part of the innate flexibility of the (still) human psyche)

She called me crazy, I called her obsolete.

Would it really be crazy to think that in a world created entirely by mental perception that it would eventually create a "psychological landscape" perhaps more abstract and pure in a very platonic sense, a world of idea(l)s, instead of the merely figurative deviations from the same old, same old?
God damn brilliant.
These moreso describe some of the immersions I would exist in.

#### Puffy

##### Demon Alpaca Overlord
I find Kuu's ideas interesting. I actually started writing a short story years ago describing a curiously similar scenario I never finished off of Paul Virilio's quote: “The effect of being enclosed which Foucault noted in the eighteenth century will infact characterise the twenty-first. What will human space be like in a world reduced to nothing by supersonic transport and instantaneous communications.”

Exteriority (in the consensus sense we currently understand it) is annihilated proportional to greater speed. Industrial consciousness arguably started with the invention of the train, the ability to get from A to B by such speed that what is in between is annihilated, i.e. becomes a blur. Travelling slowly, by walking or horse, is a means of appreciating surroundings, where speed detaches one from their surroundings. The invention of telephone poles (like railroads, lines that cut through the environment) eliminates distance altogether, the need for travel. For good or bad, technology has quickened our detachment from this planet: but is this the end-point? Exiting the planet altogether?

Thoughts, thoughts. I like this topic.

It might be my Jungian roots, I've always thought that travel to new worlds would occur through the unconscious.

And in honesty I'd understand my ideal virtual worlds as being parallel to that: exploration of mind, personal unconscious, collective, the possibility of exploring trans-personal experience, generational experience, pantheistic consciousness, Joyce's Finnegan's Wake on steroids. In response to Redbaron I think it would ideally still be real and organic, but in the same sense that dreams are real and organic, constantly shifting and unpredictable compressions of great amounts of information. I'm unsure if I'd be interested in something totally artificial: I'd want virtual reality to be as alive as the world I'm sitting in right now, and an avenue to greater understanding.

#### Absurdity

##### Prolific Member

The story goes like this: Sometime in the 1940s, Enrico Fermi was talking about the possibility of extra-terrestrial intelligence with some other physicists. They were impressed that our galaxy holds 100 billion stars, that life evolved quickly and progressively on earth, and that an intelligent, exponentially-reproducing species could colonize the galaxy in just a few million years. They reasoned that extra-terrestrial intelligence should be common by now. Fermi listened patiently, then asked simply, "So, where is everybody?". That is, if extra-terrestrial intelligence is common, why haven't we met any bright aliens yet? This conundrum became known as Fermi's Paradox.

The paradox has become more ever more baffling. Over 150 extrasolar planets have been identified in the last few years, suggesting that life-hospitable planets orbit most stars. Paleontology shows that organic life evolved very quickly after earth's surface cooled and became life-hospitable. Given simple life, evolution shows progressive trends towards larger bodies, brains, and social complexity. Evolutionary psychology reveals several credible paths from simpler social minds to human-level creative intelligence. Yet 40 years of intensive searching for extra-terrestrial intelligence have yielded nothing. No radio signals, no credible spacecraft sightings, no close encounters of any kind.

So, it looks as if there are two possibilities. Perhaps our science over-estimates the likelihood of extra-terrestrial intelligence evolving. Or, perhaps evolved technical intelligence has some deep tendency to be self-limiting, even self-exterminating. After Hiroshima, some suggested that any aliens bright enough to make colonizing space-ships would be bright enough to make thermonuclear bombs, and would use them on each other sooner or later. Perhaps extra-terrestrial intelligence always blows itself up. Fermi's Paradox became, for a while, a cautionary tale about Cold War geopolitics.

I suggest a different, even darker solution to Fermi's Paradox. Basically, I think the aliens don't blow themselves up; they just get addicted to computer games. They forget to send radio signals or colonize space because they're too busy with runaway consumerism and virtual-reality narcissism. They don't need Sentinels to enslave them in a Matrix; they do it to themselves, just as we are doing today.

The fundamental problem is that any evolved mind must pay attention to indirect cues of biological fitness, rather than tracking fitness itself. We don't seek reproductive success directly; we seek tasty foods that tended to promote survival and luscious mates who tended to produce bright, healthy babies. Modern results: fast food and pornography. Technology is fairly good at controlling external reality to promote our real biological fitness, but it's even better at delivering fake fitness — subjective cues of survival and reproduction, without the real-world effects. Fresh organic fruit juice costs so much more than nutrition-free soda. Having real friends is so much more effort than watching Friends on TV. Actually colonizing the galaxy would be so much harder than pretending to have done it when filming Star Wars or Serenity.

Fitness-faking technology tends to evolve much faster than our psychological resistance to it. The printing press is invented; people read more novels and have fewer kids; only a few curmudgeons lament this. The Xbox 360 is invented; people would rather play a high-resolution virtual ape in Peter Jackson's King Kong than be a perfect-resolution real human. Teens today must find their way through a carnival of addictively fitness-faking entertainment products: MP3, DVD, TiVo, XM radio, Verizon cellphones, Spice cable, EverQuest online, instant messaging, Ecstasy, BC Bud. The traditional staples of physical, mental, and social development (athletics, homework, dating) are neglected. The few young people with the self-control to pursue the meritocratic path often get distracted at the last minute — the MIT graduates apply to do computer game design for Electronics Arts, rather than rocket science for NASA.

Around 1900, most inventions concerned physical reality: cars, airplanes, zeppelins, electric lights, vacuum cleaners, air conditioners, bras, zippers. In 2005, most inventions concern virtual entertainment — the top 10 patent-recipients are usually IBM, Matsushita, Canon, Hewlett-Packard, Micron Technology, Samsung, Intel, Hitachi, Toshiba, and Sony — not Boeing, Toyota, or Wonderbra. We have already shifted from a reality economy to a virtual economy, from physics to psychology as the value-driver and resource-allocator. We are already disappearing up our own brainstems. Freud's pleasure principle triumphs over the reality principle. We narrow-cast human-interest stories to each other, rather than broad-casting messages of universal peace and progress to other star systems.

Maybe the bright aliens did the same. I suspect that a certain period of fitness-faking narcissism is inevitable after any intelligent life evolves. This is the Great Temptation for any technological species — to shape their subjective reality to provide the cues of survival and reproductive success without the substance. Most bright alien species probably go extinct gradually, allocating more time and resources to their pleasures, and less to their children.

Heritable variation in personality might allow some lineages to resist the Great Temptation and last longer. Those who persist will evolve more self-control, conscientiousness, and pragmatism. They will evolve a horror of virtual entertainment, psychoactive drugs, and contraception. They will stress the values of hard work, delayed gratification, child-rearing, and environmental stewardship. They will combine the family values of the Religious Right with the sustainability values of the Greenpeace Left.

My dangerous idea-within-an-idea is that this, too, is already happening. Christian and Muslim fundamentalists, and anti-consumerism activists, already understand exactly what the Great Temptation is, and how to avoid it. They insulate themselves from our Creative-Class dream-worlds and our EverQuest economics. They wait patiently for our fitness-faking narcissism to go extinct. Those practical-minded breeders will inherit the earth, as like-minded aliens may have inherited a few other planets. When they finally achieve Contact, it will not be a meeting of novel-readers and game-players. It will be a meeting of dead-serious super-parents who congratulate each other on surviving not just the Bomb, but the Xbox. They will toast each other not in a soft-porn Holodeck, but in a sacred nursery.

I think immersive reality has potential as an educative environment as redbaron's post illustrates but I would fear for a world in which it comes to replace physically lived experience. Perhaps I'm just too much of a conservative in this sense, but I can't imagine the long-term psychological effects of immersion in a virtual paradise of one's choosing to be anything other than madness and depression. Stressors and negative aspects of reality exist for a reason; limits force us to discipline ourselves and work for reward. This is how humans have lived for millennia, and I doubt we'd be able to switch seamlessly into a different reality. Without a framework of ethical restraint, technology could be our undoing.

#### redbaron

##### but why
Kuu said:
Yes, yes, yes that is technological progress. But is it human progress?
I know this was largely meant rhetorically, but I'm answering because I think it's a good question. I say no. I'd almost class it as regress (along with most of the modern fascination with virtual-escapism).

I think immersive reality has potential as an educative environment as redbaron's post illustrates but I would fear for a world in which it comes to replace physically lived experience. Perhaps I'm just too much of a conservative in this sense, but I can't imagine the long-term psychological effects of immersion in a virtual paradise of one's choosing to be anything other than madness and depression. Stressors and negative aspects of reality exist for a reason; limits force us to discipline ourselves and work for reward. This is how humans have lived for millennia, and I doubt we'd be able to switch seamlessly into a different reality. Without a framework of ethical restraint, technology could be our undoing.
I was going to post something similar, although I didn't want to poop all over what was turning into a good thread. This concept also arises in discussion about eternal life: just what effect will it have on humans, to know that they can live forever?

It could possibly instigate an ironic undoing of human civilization.

Sorry, not trying to derail the thread, just that I've brought up questions like this before (the potential psychological effects that the advent of incredibly advanced technology has on the human mind) and it never got much discussion...probably because it wasn't what the thread was about :x

#### Auburn

##### Luftschloss Schöpfer
Oh, not at all. I love this sort of dialogue.

I would fear for a world in which it comes to replace physically lived experience.
What would be wrong with this? ...think of it in terms of a world where needing to get groceries, needing to pay the bills/etc, might have already become irrelevant by the existence of a mechanical body, or a body within a life-support system as Kuu mentioned. If there really are no pending necessities in the outside world to take care of, is there really anything wrong with living in this space?

Stressors and negative aspects of reality exist for a reason; limits force us to discipline ourselves and work for reward. This is how humans have lived for millennia
Whose to say stressors couldn't exist in the virtual reality?

But going a step above that, what would be the virtue of hard work for rewards if the laws of the virtual world don't require that sort of dynamic? The logic of "you need to be strong and work hard to get by" would not be applicable here, so the absence of the 'character' developed by those experiences wouldn't be a crippling factor. Again it's bringing an archaic mindset into an environment that has transcended the need for it. (;

and I doubt we'd be able to switch seamlessly into a different reality. Without a framework of ethical restraint, technology could be our undoing.
The drama of the human psyche would still be present, but just in a different platform. Due to the nature of being human, even within what seems like a stress-free and perfect world, the human psyche would invent new desires and struggles to go with them; cravings and aspirations. But they would be different questions, different struggles ---- of more sophisticated nature, and not basic ones like how to distribute resources to the planet to end world hunger. If world hunger is solved, then the human craving for moral perfection would find a new dillema to tackle. That is the nature of the human mindheart. (=

It would lead us to answer more universal and meaningful questions about morality, truth, and the universe - to be free of these more primal concerns.​

#### Absurdity

##### Prolific Member
But going a step above that, what would be the virtue of hard work for rewards if the laws of the virtual world don't require that sort of dynamic? The logic of "you need to be strong and work hard to get by" would not be applicable here, so the absence of the 'character' developed by those experiences wouldn't be a crippling factor. Again it's bringing an archaic mindset into an environment that has transcended the need for it. (;
It's not just that you need to work to get by, but you need to work to be psychologically balanced. Endless leisure breeds all sorts of disorders and vices. Humans were born to see the virtue in toil.

And how would character ever not apply? I don't believe you and I are ever going to agree on this issue because you seem to have a very different understanding of human nature than I (with mine being drastically less optimistic), but to me the "archaic mindset" of man is not flexible enough to adapt to a radically different environment. "Man's reach exceeds his grasp" and all that.

The drama of the human psyche would still be present, but just in a different platform. Due to the nature of being human, even within what seems like a stress-free and perfect world, the human psyche would invent new desires and struggles to go with them; cravings and aspirations. But they would be different questions, different struggles ---- of more sophisticated nature, and not basic ones like how to distribute resources to the planet to end world hunger. If world hunger is solved, then the human craving for moral perfection would find a new dillema to tackle. That is the nature of the human mindheart. (=

It would lead us to answer more universal and meaningful questions about morality, truth, and the universe - to be free of these more primal concerns.
Troubling inventions of the human psyche sound like the definition of insanity to me. I'm not being sarcastic, either.

We'll never be free of primal concerns because we are primates, unless our biology is sufficiently altered to the point in which we cease being human. Frankly, I kind of like this meat sack with all of its mundanity and limitations. Dreams of living in a limitless fantastic dream world strike me as manifestations of recent generations' addiction to novelty. But like I said in my first post, I'm conservative in that way (among others). I'll stop pooping all over your thread now.

#### Auburn

##### Luftschloss Schöpfer
It's quite alright. ^^;

Resistance to this technological progression is itself anticipated, no? As you noted, there are aspects that strive for balance in the human equation, and one side of the human population may always be more tentative & conservative while it is the job of the opposite side to temporarily overthrow the equilibrium of the stabilizers to allow daring evolution.

This is how all progress has been made in human history and each one has been scary and uncertain. Stability and novelty are equally necessary.

***

Humans more commonly embody one extreme slice of humanity's nature, than embody the entirety of it, but someone else embodies the other extreme, drama ensues, then the net result is equilibrium.

I think I belong to the 'destabilizers', but at the direction we're headed, at some point we're going to have to learn to embrace all the divided elements of our nature and attain a higher perspective of it all than become caught up within our favorite or innate resting point.

There is a point which we cannot evolve past without coming to the realization of how our psyche forms the many personalities and differences that have made up the whole of our human wars and struggles up to this point. Attaining this knowledge, and not being at the mercy of its dynamics but beyond it, is crucial to moving further, as we'd then understand just what motivations we've been operating under and what sort of motivations are needed to survive into large scale exploration of the cosmos.​

#### Animekitty

##### (ISFP)
The possibilities attainable by the resonance of clarity we experience is compatible with whatever is in our own desire. Foremost we could become solid state crystalline rather than one dimensional amino acids. We have frequency inside each cell that scales with our experience of time. Though it is the structure that changes for learning this could be controlled by how we wish it to be enforced chemically. The efficiency brought by meditation practice could radically be sped up with to the core structure and further to support optimization of balance. Integrating key aspects we wish to keep into feeling deeper and holding more is a matter of quality.

Impossible worlds could become possible with psychic enhancement. The proposed duration we can live post biological as quantum crystals we would prevent all negative experiences of threshold intensity. The meta-materials have relevance to how complex thought can be processed as qualia. Reliving of past events new compositions would extend to entail continuity of our identities along what were our archetypal ideals. It could be that we excel past primitive instincts to a pure platonic realm of spiritual happiness and discover the source of consciousness.

#### Windbag

##### I am here to wheeze.

I think immersive reality has potential as an educative environment as redbaron's post illustrates but I would fear for a world in which it comes to replace physically lived experience. Perhaps I'm just too much of a conservative in this sense, but I can't imagine the long-term psychological effects of immersion in a virtual paradise of one's choosing to be anything other than madness and depression. Stressors and negative aspects of reality exist for a reason; limits force us to discipline ourselves and work for reward. This is how humans have lived for millennia, and I doubt we'd be able to switch seamlessly into a different reality. Without a framework of ethical restraint, technology could be our undoing.
Brilliant. Yes.

I hardly see how we can avoid it, however, and that thought disturbs me. Given enough computational power we could simulate not fitness but the universe itself. There'd be no need to go anywhere or do anything because we could completely predict what we'd find there. Also, the computer could run simulations of endless heavens and hells until the heat death of the universe, thereby experiencing a "lifetime" far greater than the total age of the universe. Like Marvin the robot, only virtual.

In a way, other civilizations - having experienced all the knowledge, agony and ecstacy available to thinking beings/machines - might just let themselves die.

edit: absurdity, you and I are cut from the same cloth I think.

The Void.

#### PhoenixRising

##### nyctophiliac
o) What world would you live in?

I would live in a digital representation of this universe that would update its laws based on new scientific findings and/or implementation of my own hypotheses. My home planet would be a vast untouched world with two suns and many moons to explore, but would be devoid of anything like cities. There would be deep enchanted forests with paths that would go on for days, waterfalls and shimmering oceans, high mountain spires and rolling meadows. Some forests would contain bioluminescent trees, the most ancient creatures on the planet. At night, these trees would glow a soft blue-white from within their twisted trunks and the tips of their new growth. The whole forest would glow with the light of these trees and the sparkling of fireflies. It would be a fantasy realm completely consistent with the laws of reality, unfolding and evolving on its own, as all things do in this universe.

o) What would you be like?

I would be an immortal androgynous shape-shifter, but would spend a good deal of time in the form of an elvish creature with super-perceptive senses and wings that could generate an anti-gravity field that would allow unassisted space travel. I would have direct access to the internet with my conscious mind, but could connect and disconnect at will. I would receive updates about new scientific discoveries in the real-world outside on a constant basis, so that I could adjust my own theories to the altered laws of the universe. My thoughts would also be constantly recorded into a database, so that I could later recall them while formulating hypotheses, writing books, etc. After a few years, I would take all the data from my thought record and analyze it in order to understand the causality of my psyche in detail.

There would be endless forms of life to discover and study on my home planet. I would spend quite a bit of time sitting and documenting it all, sketching and describing the behavior and biology of each organism. I would conduct experiments aimed at deducing the origins of life and watch the causality of evolution unfold. I would wander through the deep silence of forests, by sea shores and up to mountaintops to meditate on the thick field of stars. Each night, I would take flight into space to explore all the phenomena of the cosmos. I would watch stars explode, and control the event with my mind so that I could observe each microsecond in detail. I would journey to the center of black holes and formulate hypotheses on time and gravity based on my observations. Sometimes, I would fly outside of my universe and reenact the big-bang with different parameters in place to see if anything lead to the same reality that we know.

I would want to understand the real universe through my virtual experience before moving on to creating something completely different. This seems like the most logical approach, since understanding what already exists is a prerequisite to crafting laws that truly don't exist in this reality.

#### Auburn

##### Luftschloss Schöpfer
The game has accelerated.
Facebook has bought in Oculus VR for $2 billion. It's all over the internet.... o.o What do you guys think? Personally this shocked me but after sorting out some mixed feelings I think this was the step Oculus VR needed to secure its position both as a gaming console and as the many other things it will come to be. I think the article below echoes my opinion of the matter, and how now Oculus is pretty much guaranteed to 'happen' and be 'mainstream'. It's started, no going back. ...Facebook could afford to pay$2 billion to acquire a technology that could have potentially been doomed to a niche market, squandering all its incredible potential, squandering a genuine chance to change the world through interactivity. This is now a potential that has an exponentially stronger chance of become a hard reality...

##### Death is coming
The game has accelerated.
Facebook has bought in Oculus VR for $2 billion. It's all over the internet.... o.o What do you guys think? Personally this shocked me but after sorting out some mixed feelings I think this was the step Oculus VR needed to secure its position both as a gaming console and as the many other things it will come to be. I think the article below echoes my opinion of the matter, and how now Oculus is pretty much guaranteed to 'happen' and be 'mainstream'. It's started, no going back. I was reading a bunch about this... A lot of game developers feeling negative about it. But, I agree it miiiight be good in the long term. Personally I'm no longer planning on ordering one until it's much more clear about the direction facebook is going to steer things. I was excited about the potential to make things for it, that excitement is now apprehension. #### Auburn ##### Luftschloss Schöpfer Yeah. Though if we take Instagram and Whatsapp as examples of companies taken in by facebook, it seems they treat them well and let them do their own thing for the most part. Also, you'll have other options. Recently Sony/Play Station has finally unveiled their own Virtual Reality headset and I think this is Oculus' most serious competitor. I'm pretty sure these two will drive the competition for the next generation of game consoles. ^_^ So exciting! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Q4Vf-HwEU #### Dormouse ##### Mean can be funny This thread fills me with emotions. The OP first: o) What world would you live in? o) What would you be like? I believe these two questions overlap more than is addressed. Full immersion, by definition, aims to seamlessly insert you into a world. You become one with it, in that you become part of its mechanics. The actions you take have consequences that are realistic and continuous, you exchange material with the world around you. This is the kind of integration that would really elevate a VR above present videogames - the responsiveness. That, and a lot of my more profound interests would involve blurring my perception of separation from the surrounding matrix. I could be a landscape, I could be not one person but a collection, I could be a volume of empty space and feel particles passing through me. I could experience more, or fewer than three dimensions. I could remain humanoid but construct an environment that responds to my emotions, or that picks up and amplifies patterns in my thought. I'd like to exist as a point in n dimensions with n players, where each of us is responsible for the movement of the point in a certain dimension. There could be set goals, experiments in cooperation. I want to be something that speaks in colour, or a conscious endocrine system, or both of those things simultaneously. Exploring true separation could be interesting, too - Omniscience + impotence, or just wandering as a ghost that can't influence physicality. The possibilities are infinite. I wouldn't mind just living as a possum for a while. Kuu had some pretty cool ideas. i see human progress as moving away from fiction rather than towards immersion in fiction. What. Seriously? Like we aren't already living in a largely fictional narrative. Perceptions enormously skewed by societal influences. VR can remove those mental limits by presenting a wealth of alternate, expanding experiences. There's also something to be said about it mediating materialistic urges and lowering consumption by providing an infinite array of virtual products. And immersion doesn't imply the kind of passive, numbing fiction you're thinking of. It's participatory and highly involving, as well as a an arena for acquiring skills and knowledge. It's not just that you need to work to get by, but you need to work to be psychologically balanced. Endless leisure breeds all sorts of disorders and vices. Humans were born to see the virtue in toil. And how would character ever not apply? I don't believe you and I are ever going to agree on this issue because you seem to have a very different understanding of human nature than I (with mine being drastically less optimistic), but to me the "archaic mindset" of man is not flexible enough to adapt to a radically different environment. "Man's reach exceeds his grasp" and all that. Troubling inventions of the human psyche sound like the definition of insanity to me. I'm not being sarcastic, either. We'll never be free of primal concerns because we are primates, unless our biology is sufficiently altered to the point in which we cease being human. Frankly, I kind of like this meat sack with all of its mundanity and limitations. Dreams of living in a limitless fantastic dream world strike me as manifestations of recent generations' addiction to novelty. But like I said in my first post, I'm conservative in that way (among others). I'll stop pooping all over your thread now. Then perhaps it's time for humans to evolve. It seems ridiculous to fold under primitive instincts, when clearly we could develop the tools to better engineer ourselves for a transcendentally varied existence. And there will always be work to do; creation and exploration and archiving. Mindscapes don't materialize from nothing. People find ways to occupy themselves. And the existence of a virtuality would never prevent anyone from engaging with the "real world", if they chose to. As for these "troubling inventions" - We already have them. Humanity's true concerns go largely ignored while we dither about inanities and our statuses in our local MMRPGs. Perhaps, in the course of transition (and I do believe we have the neurological tools and flexibility to adapt to this kind of existence, perhaps even without invasive procedures), humanity's innate restlessness will momentarily express itself in undesirable ways. But it seems far better to walk that path than to resign our species to such limited, nasty and brutish lifetimes, in the face of all that could be achieved. Oh, and as for the Facebook thing, I'm hoping it accelerates research and somewhat popularizes the idea. What surprised me the most is that they're investing in VR before AR, which it seems to me has way more Facebook-related applications. #### Auburn ##### Luftschloss Schöpfer Phoenix and I made a video. ^^ http://youtu.be/5PLSJqCS50A It's a concept of what the consumer version might look like... *vanish* o.o #### Auburn ##### Luftschloss Schöpfer Resurrecting this thread, in light of new breakthroughs in virtual reality! ~ For those who don't know.... Facebook's Oculus Rift has been out for a year now, and has dropped in price to$598:

PlayStation 4 has it's PlayStation VR:

HTC's Vive has also been out for a year now,
and now has trackers which can go on any accessory:

LG's also joining VR with their own headset:

A market has officially been established, and it's only going to keep growing.

(feel free to use this thread for any new VR/AR news you come across)

#### Kuu

Damn it Auburn, just as I was planning to make a thread about VR.

I think the better VR videos are those made using mixed reality, you actually get to see the person in context and not just flailing about with a brick on their face...

I had an interesting conversation about VR immersion just a couple of days ago. Some guy wanted to start a sort of VR talk show so he organized an event in VRChat (currently the best VR social environment) to discuss the future of socializing in VR... in a virtual tavern (its curious how that is one of the most popular locations). Though the show itself ended up deviating constantly into tangents, a few people hung around afterwards and we had a much more fruitful discussion which would be too hard for me to reproduce here XD.

I've noticed that many people just seem to not be very imaginative about what can be done; there's even an obsession among some developers about trying to make things extremely realistic and are too afraid to deviate from that. I guess it's a bit of the low-hanging fruit of a new medium, that you don't have to think too hard about alternative experiences, you just do what you know. Also, building totally insane shit also takes a ton of time.

Part of the chat was about the importance / irrelevance of gender and identity in general. I suppose some types of people feel a more intense sense of attachment to their actual physical self than more mentally oriented types. But still I must say that I've had a newfound appreciation about just how important it is for us to have a physical embodiment. Trying out various VR experiences where you're just a disembodied pair of hands is rather unsatisfying; while the few experiences where you have an entire body working with fingers and feet with IK turns it into a much more fulfilling experience. So much of our communication and relating to the world is non-verbal. I guess having a mostly humanoid body will still continue to be a thing as long as we aren't using direct to brain interfaces, since your sense of body remains in reality even if there is no body in VR...

I laughed my ass off when a little kawaii anime loli no taller than a meter arrived and suddenly started speaking like a 40 year old heavily accented russian man. Which later turned into a shark. That was certainly an ice-breaker. People are so much more uninhibited in VR. You know in the internet you can always be anonymous or pseudo anonymous and say all sorts of shit, but the sense of presence and fluidity of communication in present VR has an intensity and quality that far surpasses that any other digital media. In VR you feel like you really are there, really doing those things, and yet, not. No danger, no consequences, no social stigmas, no complaints about being naked and not having showered in a week. And everything is so weird and new, peoples' crazy avatar, strange worlds. It's a sort of intoxicating childlike freedom and it's a strange feeling when you unplug from it and return to our primitive primate existence. It seems like everyone just have a great time, but most of them would just stare at each other in silence in meatspace due to anxiety or prejudice.

I think in the future there will be *massive* political consequences due to VR and this newfound sense of connection and freedom. High-speed transport and telecommunications has already broken so much barriers to create a more 'globalized' world, but even if people can communicate instantaneously and create communities online, the depth and quality is always limited, geography still maintains a foothold to keep cultures apart. An immersive experience like VR helps to create social bonds with distant people far, far easier and much faster. As people spend more time in VR and it becomes more immersive, it is likely that entire VR cultures and even VR "nations" begin to arise when a VR economy begins to take hold, specially with things like cryptocurrencies and digital goods that might not be tied to any traditional conception of banking or nation-state.

I'm very intrigued about the concept of public virtual spaces and how they are analogous to the importance of public spaces in cities for the creation of societies. And how these virtual spaces will relate to physical spaces, how a distributed digital global nation can exist as a sort of parasite feeding off the physical infrastructure of the aging carcass of the geographically bound nation-state as we know it. Like, hosting providers or companies making MMORPGs basically morphing into pseudo-government entities. Citizens of Cyberia work in VR and have private VR "space" (or rather server processing capacity and space to host whatever they want), pay their subscription/taxes so that the physical server spaces that host the assets of the virtual nation can be paid and cared for, maybe even have places like VR-internet-cafe that you can visit and jack in with a high speed connection as a citizen privilege... Makes me think of Snow Crash and it's franchulates. Damn Stephenson is a mad genius.

Fuck Auburn why aren't you in VR yet?

#### The Gopher

##### President
What VR platform do you recommend. The verdict seems to be that Rift is evil but they are better because they are evil?

#### Kuu

Gopher:

Vive. If you compare headset specs both are nearly identical, but Valve's lighthouse tracking tech is so much better, and using Steam is far more acceptable than installing Facebook garbage on your system. Besides the system is open so other manufacturers are coming out with compatible devices. Who knows what Facebook will do in the future but they seem more interested in an Apple-like platform lock-in approach. They just kicked out the founder Luckey.

I don't know where you read Rift is better, must be all that marketing money they're burning.

However, I don't recommend any VR for hardcore gamers or average person. It's still in an early adopter form, for tech enthusiasts and frontier weirdoes and businesses. If you don't mind strange half-baked experiments, a lack of lengthy polished productions, and are fine troubleshooting and rolling your own stuff and dealing with weekly beta updates, then it's fucking awesome.

I bought mine as a business experiment, gaming is just a very nice extra i don't have much time for. I wanted to get on the VR bandwagon as early as I could. I've already recovered all my hardware/software investment in about two months and I've more projects underway...

#### QuickTwist

##### Alive - Born Anew
Damn, I thought The Void was back.

#### The Gopher

##### President
Gopher:

Vive. If you compare headset specs both are nearly identical, but Valve's lighthouse tracking tech is so much better, and using Steam is far more acceptable than installing Facebook garbage on your system. Besides the system is open so other manufacturers are coming out with compatible devices. Who knows what Facebook will do in the future but they seem more interested in an Apple-like platform lock-in approach. They just kicked out the founder Luckey.

I don't know where you read Rift is better, must be all that marketing money they're burning.

However, I don't recommend any VR for hardcore gamers or average person. It's still in an early adopter form, for tech enthusiasts and frontier weirdoes and businesses. If you don't mind strange half-baked experiments, a lack of lengthy polished productions, and are fine troubleshooting and rolling your own stuff and dealing with weekly beta updates, then it's fucking awesome.

I bought mine as a business experiment, gaming is just a very nice extra i don't have much time for. I wanted to get on the VR bandwagon as early as I could. I've already recovered all my hardware/software investment in about two months and I've more projects underway...
Ahh, I read it was "better" because they were being evil and buying up all the exclusives while vive was better technically. I'm fine with all that I just don't have money.

#### Auburn

##### Luftschloss Schöpfer
I've noticed that many people just seem to not be very imaginative about what can be done; there's even an obsession among some developers about trying to make things extremely realistic and are too afraid to deviate from that.
Bjork's brand new VR song title echoes your (and my) sentiment

#### Kuu

Bump for great justice.

I want to know what @Auburn thinks in (present day, present time). He's probably getting more VR time than me now...

#### Auburn

##### Luftschloss Schöpfer
I love it!

It doesn't feel like a game; it actually feels like a real place. And I have memories of being places that... are no less real than any I have of the real world. In fact, more vivid and unbounded.

I would definitely recommend VR (even this first gen) for anyone curious. Don't wait for it to "be perfect" -- it's like the whole cellphone thing, if fear of obsolescence stopped you, you'd never get a phone.

(And I don't know about other people, but my mind glosses over the imperfections of the inputs. It's just like being transported to another place, except you're in a wheelchair and have to walk via buttons.)

I just really want a keyboard input. Once I have that, and maybe a 4K headset, I'll be able to stay in VR worlds for many hours a day and blend real life work with VR. In the next year or so, I'm hoping I can be typing on this forum as a pixie chibi from within VR, with ten other floating screens around me...

It's coming guys, don't be left behind.

P.S. - Any other VR users on the forum?

#### Happy

##### ENTP
I'm actually pretty keen to get onto it now since I (finally) tried a decent headset (oculis) the other day at a design museum overseas. I was impressed at how not-vomity it was, which is what had turned me off VR in the past.

#### QuickTwist

##### Alive - Born Anew

Probably because I can't imagine what isn't. Anything I could conceive of would be petty and dull.

OK, but to answer, I would say I would like to simply live in this reality but only understanding all the information that my senses pick up. No overly narrow PoV and biases to hold me down. I wouldn't have to "believe" anything because everything would be apparent to me.

Knowledge, yer.

#### Cegorach

##### Well-Known Member
Deep Dive to a Dry Shore
In the near future I'd suggest augmented reality will probably have the far bigger impact, it'll be a slow crawl towards a full immersion impressive enough to manipulate the central nervous system and convince the senses enough to satisfy primal needs, and to be able to simulate, in real time, the minutiae of what makes the real world seem so satisfyingly tangible to us, even from a single, limited perspective.
Virtual reality will probably be confined more to highly abstracted and controlled simulation or fantastical expression requiring less detail, for a while yet anyway.

But in the slightly longer term, practical circumstances and established infrastructure will presumably link the augmented with the virtual, and once the economy adapts and even more specialized infrastructure is in place it'll become part of the way we understand and interact with the physical world as much as it is a way to express our myriad of fantasies.
Additionally, some degree of economic rebalancing will probably put a premium on finding solutions to real world problems, since prudent concerns outside of virtual realms will continue to exist.

I can already envision a future where phantasms mingle in the street with those in physical bodies, visible only to they who don their ritual apparel, lasers etching a hallucinatory reality onto their retinas, there may be a need for technology to imprint an implicit understanding of what is and isn't real for those who actually are present, but that shared hallucination will be more than delusion, these phantasms will interact, maybe not directly with the laws of physics, beyond what we choose to simulate, but legions of sensors will accumulate authentic data, and disembodied signals will be sent to accommodating receivers, interactions with lights, doors, vehicles, and more may be possible, physical sensations will be convincingly simulated, real goods will be bought and sold, temporary robotic bodies will be rented, even homemade creations thousands of kilometers away could be recreated near perfectly closer to home by atomic-scale additive manufacturing and purchased access to a temporary blueprint, for those not satisfied with entirely virtual approximations.
You can conceptualize entire countries competing for the bounty of traveling ghosts, an international creative economy of previously unimagined scales driving continued accommodation.

Even further into the future, you could see interplanetary colonization with uploaded cognition sent to another world at light speed into pre-established unmanned enterprises, these inhabitants continuing planetary development via their virtual consciousnesses sending ethereal electrical/optical instructions to guide automated processes or alternatively inhabiting cybernetic form perfectly suited to the environment required.

Ultimately, your virtual experience of the real world could be highly flexible to your immediate whims, you could fall out of your front door into the real streets of Bangkok, then take the side alley from there, where it's only a small step to Moscow or Mogadishu, less than 200 seconds to Olympus Mons, and one giant leap to the polychromatic plains of Greater Inferior Prime-ish IV, found neighboring the feeling of disorientation and personal loss, about 1,000 millennia to the south-left of the most cuddly acute angles of virtual spacetime; you'll know you're there when you're thoroughly confused/aroused.

Phantasmagoria Orgasmagoria
To finally get to the point and answer the actual questions, my psychology would likely express itself through an incomplete ego suicide.

o) What would you be like?
Something formless, flowing along to the distant consultants of horror and asylum, into a manifold of perspectives where the struggles of wisdom and experience are attained and stored in some divorced yet abstractly accessible locale. Its vestigial limbs may love, may laugh, may be tortured, may despair, but they can always be cut off and pickled for later consumption.
Then that formless something said, "Let us make these gherkins in our intent, in a carefully considered likeness, so that they may learn from the senpai of Japan and the memes in the virtuanet, from the fools and all the madmen, and from all the prodigy that moves deep along the ether."

o) What world would you live in?
In the real world I already regularly conceptualize fictional worlds, it has been a hobby of mine since I was very young to define elements of these sorts of microcosms, usually in the unrealized form of a game, a format where you play with the laws of interaction and try to predict the outcomes.

But I'm not sure if any of them follow a singular form either, they're usually firmly conceptually defined only to a certain extent, after that each pebble I infrequently kick sends ripples that adjusts the entire remaining shape without necessarily invalidating the preceding; they're malleable, within limits. A network of paths that all lead back to the same abode.

If they were to virtually exist they wouldn't be for other people to pollute and impress, they'd be oases for myself only, highly crafted, unfolding origami experiences that could be navigated in countless ways, without the need to semantically or pragmatically atrophy it so that others can understand. A world of both intent and impulse.
Equally interesting to me would be voyaging through the galaxies that other minds had made, an open-source universe where you could experience the greatest artistry from betwixt billions of creators would inevitably be as fascinating as anything I could design; those experiences would surely influence my own fictions as well.

Something I didn't address anywhere above but that is fascinating to explore in this context would be manipulation of our perception of time, I had a lot of ideas but it was difficult to embed anywhere organically without rewriting everything again, so I'll just leave a link here and let other people's minds do the wondering|wandering.
For any left puzzled, the section titles are ludicrous organizational gibberish and little else.

#### svitani

##### Redshirt
What would you be like?
An eye in the sky would be alright, but with the option to shapeshift (like Mystique) and interact as part of any group, to be a local if I would like to be one.

What world would you live in?
All of them please, but also with at least one world that can be designed, catalogued and redone whenever.

#### Animekitty

##### (ISFP)
o) What world would you live in?

o) What would you be like?