stoicism and the personality type

[Sirach2:5]

I have studied stoicism and I have been living the stoic lifestyle for a while now however it got me thinking which personality type best fits stoicism.

It take a great deal of study to truly get a feel for what a stoic is but for those that don't know what stoicism is an extremely basic explanation would be.

an ancient Greek school of philosophy that taught that virtue, the highest good, is based on knowledge, and that the wise live in harmony with the divine Reason (also identified with Fate and Providence) that governs nature, and are indifferent to the vicissitudes of fortune and to pleasure and pain and champions the endurance of pain or hardship without a display of feelings and without complaint.

when i take an in depth look at stoicism i see many natural traits of the INTP and the INFJ in stoic philosophy but what do you guys think

 

[Anktark]

It would be hard to narrow it down to a single type. It might just come down to an individual. I could see INFP, INTP, ISTP, INTJ, ENTJ as more likely to be stoic, the NTJ subset especially.

 

[Bock]

Stoicism is all about either being insane, stupid and/or having such a high baseline mood that it doesn't matter what you do/think. If you follow and apply it outside of a horrible/suffering context, that is.

 

[Sirach2:5]

It would be hard to narrow it down to a single type. It might just come down to an individual. I could see INFP, INTP, ISTP, INTJ, ENTJ as more likely to be stoic, the NTJ subset especially.

The great stoic marcus aurelius was considered an INFJ so shouldent that type be included?

 

[Anktark]

The great stoic marcus aurelius was considered an INFJ so shouldent that type be included?

I would rather look at which types possess traits to more likely produce a stoic person than consider a whole type stoic, because of one person.

 

[Brontosaurie]

INTP probably is the most appealed by stoic moral theory.

Ti-Fe dynamic, to suppress strong sentiment using a rational analysis of what would be the best state of mind

Ne-Si for the historic anchoring and conceptual aspect. Se-Ni more likely to find the ups and downs of life (including the power of violence) to be of primary importance and in conflict with stoic principle, thus declare stoicism a stupid utopian vision, hypothetical and inconsequential

to actually practice something ostensibly akin to stoicism, i get the feeling that some subset of ISFP is more adept. it probably comes natural to them, and they may not have any reasoning behind it. old, wise ISFP, not a care in the world yet deeply loving. acceptance, humility and equanimity at the core.

 

[Sirach2:5]

Been reading the meditations of Marcus he laid out sever stoic traits here is how I match them up.

Good morals and graditude=INFJ

Modesty=INFJ

Generosity lack of vanity=INFJ

Invest in education and spend liberaly on it= INTP

Don't get in other peoples affairs or slander= ISTJ/INTJ

Endurance in hardship= INFJ

Don't busy with trifle maters= INTP/INTJ

Tolerate freedom of speech an ignorance= INFJ

Write dialogs= INFJ

Don't show off= INTP/INFJ

Forgive= INFJ

Live in accord to spirituality= INFJ

Be resolute= INFJ/INTJ

Champion reason INTP/INTJ

Don't complain be cheerful= infj

Don't neglect duties=ISTJ

Adapt= INFJ

Listen= INFJ

Know when to relax and when to work=INTPmaybe/istj

Don't worry about appearance= INTP

Do what ought to be done=istj

Keep friends= INFJ

There are more but I will stop there. Seems like INFJ pops up the most.

 

[Sirach2:5]

It'd you think a type we discussed fits the trais better mention it

 

[Brontosaurie]

wow that's an exceptionally biased view of INFJ's, even accounting for that it's normally considered the infallible moral and intellectual super hero type

 

[Sirach2:5]

wow that's an exceptionally biased view of INFJ's, even accounting for that it's normally considered the infallible moral and intellectual super hero type

Do you your own analyst i may be influenced by the fact Marcus was an INFJ

 

[TheManBeyond]

the forgive section could be filled by any type, exept maybe for those with inferior Fi and i didn't even look at every of them

 

[Cherry Cola]

I don't think INFJs make for good stoics, they have too much Fe. They can be incredible in groups because other people empower them by giving them a sense of purpose and duty which they can't must up on their own. Furthermore, all feelers are fueled by humanistic passion, stoicism is all about strict adherence to rationality. One must live in accordance with nature and give up on passions. Of course it takes some passion to do that, but that's a kind of passion which INFJs don't have.

I would say INTJs and ENTPs make the best stoics. ENTPs are naturally great at ignoring sensory stimuli owing to their inferior Si, they just don't notice it as much as others, plus it's unimportant to them. INTJs are driven to ignore sensory stimuli because they dislike the mundane nature of their inferior Se. Both types have a tendency to view emotions as vapid and nebulous phenomena of little importance; irritating distractions. Both types also share a tendency to see themselves as superrational ubermenschen.

Their traits allow them to be true stoics, whereas INFJs stoics are likely just kidding themselves. They are drawn in by the egalitarian features of the stoic doctrines.

 

[Sirach2:5]

I don't think INFJs make for good stoics, they have too much Fe. They can be incredible in groups because other people empower them by giving them a sense of purpose and duty which they can't must up on their own. Furthermore, all feelers are fueled by humanistic passion, stoicism is all about strict adherence to rationality. One must live in accordance with nature and give up on passions. Of course it takes some passion to do that, but that's a kind of passion which INFJs don't have.

I would say INTJs and ENTPs make the best stoics. ENTPs are naturally great at ignoring sensory stimuli owing to their inferior Si, they just don't notice it as much as others, plus it's unimportant to them. INTJs are driven to ignore sensory stimuli because they dislike the mundane nature of their inferior Se. Both types have a tendency to view emotions as vapid and nebulous phenomena of little importance; irritating distractions. Both types also share a tendency to see themselves as superrational ubermenschen.

Their traits allow them to be true stoics, whereas INFJs stoics are likely just kidding themselves. They are drawn in by the egalitarian features of the stoic doctrines.

I agree I think infj lac some important characteristics but I feel INTJs lack a great deal too.

The INT has the logical side of the stoic but The infj has several like philosophy morals love and understanding of others spirituality and writing.

I am an infj intp intj fence sitter and am drawn to the stoic life style an no one type gives all the traits but stoic are a type of their own. However I think the INFJ gives the most of the 3 by a small margin but the intp and intj put together gives a huge fraction of the stoic because I think the stoics empathy morality and spirituality all go to the infj while everything in the logical side is split between the tj and tp

 

[Cherry Cola]

INFJ might make the best stoics in practice if they get to guide other people, but they couldn't pull it off on their own the same way an INTJ and ENTP might. I don't see an INTP subscribing to something as reductionistic as stoicism, I think it takes dominant perceiving to completely buy into an idea like that, as a dominant perceiver you can get that feeling telling you "this is it, this is the thing, that which makes it all come together" when an idea resonates with your intuition.

 

[Analyzer]

I could see developed SFJ's follow the moral framework of stoicism as well.

 

[Cherry Cola]

yeah but what framework wont they follow?

 

[Analyzer]

yeah but what framework wont they follow?

Yeah your right it's just a tradition after all, although a very old and sophisticated one. SFJ's who have decided to dig deeper than the typical frameworks of organized religion I could see end up at stoicism through experience(Si). NFJ's on the other hand might follow it without much place on its legacy, but find it in tune with how they are.

I think any personality could follow it but seems stoicism fits more into the Ti Fe worldview.

 

[Sirach2:5]

Yeah your right it's just a tradition after all, although a very old and sophisticated one. SFJ's who have decided to dig deeper than the typical frameworks of organized religion I could see end up at stoicism through experience(Si). NFJ's on the other hand might follow it without much place on its legacy, but find it in tune with how they are.

I think any personality could follow it but seems stoicism fits more into the Ti Fe worldview.

The problem with this deduction though is that the stoic philosophy looks at the big picture and when they face inconvenionses they look at the big picture and see how little their problems are in the big picture that is why an SF will not fit the picture as the s is so much more taken by the details. A stoic has to be an N.

Also I don't think any personality could follow. For example an ESTJ is so directing and trying to control every last detail to fit their plans that there is no way you can be an ESTJ and stoic.

Now it is possible for them to change and in their own way find their path to stoicism but when they become a stoic they will no longer be an isfj or ESTJ. A stoic has to be an IN.

 

[mooncrater]

I've considered myself a stoic more than anything else for several years. I think much of western thought after the classical period of philosophy is mired in faith, politics, and jealous intellectualism. Stoicism is all about seeing the big picture, using logic and reason to make decisions, and judging people/wishing to be judged by their actions and considering their overall effect.

There may be something else out there that I could find, and read, and accept more-so than Stoicism, but for now, as far as books that I read when I seek direction and inspiration, I go for the big three - Epictetus, Aurelius, and Seneca.

 

[Analyzer]

The problem with this deduction though is that the stoic philosophy looks at the big picture and when they face inconvenionses they look at the big picture and see how little their problems are in the big picture that is why an SF will not fit the picture as the s is so much more taken by the details. A stoic has to be an N.

Also I don't think any personality could follow. For example an ESTJ is so directing and trying to control every last detail to fit their plans that there is no way you can be an ESTJ and stoic.

I could see how stoicism appeals to N's naturally more than others, especially IN's. What i was saying is how a developed SFJ could align itself with stoic thinking if they moved past the S details and superficial aspects, and focued on the big picture. I think this is possible, difficult perhaps since they have Ne Ti in their stack which can develop through age or experience. Also it would happen once they were old I would imagine.

Now it is possible for them to change and in their own way find their path to stoicism but when they become a stoic they will no longer be an isfj or ESTJ. A stoic has to be an IN.

You really think types change like that.

 

[Sirach2:5]

I could see how stoicism appeals to N's naturally more than others, especially IN's. What i was saying is how a developed SFJ could align itself with stoic thinking if they moved past the S details and superficial aspects, and focued on the big picture. I think this is possible, difficult perhaps since they have Ne Ti in their stack which can develop through age or experience. Also it would happen once they were old I would imagine.



You really think types change like that.

I don't think types just change like that I was just making a point. However it's not impossible. Probably have to go through a life rattling experiance that gives them a new perspective on life.

 

[Brontosaurie]

I don't think INFJs make for good stoics, they have too much Fe. They can be incredible in groups because other people empower them by giving them a sense of purpose and duty which they can't must up on their own. Furthermore, all feelers are fueled by humanistic passion, stoicism is all about strict adherence to rationality. One must live in accordance with nature and give up on passions. Of course it takes some passion to do that, but that's a kind of passion which INFJs don't have.

I would say INTJs and ENTPs make the best stoics. ENTPs are naturally great at ignoring sensory stimuli owing to their inferior Si, they just don't notice it as much as others, plus it's unimportant to them. INTJs are driven to ignore sensory stimuli because they dislike the mundane nature of their inferior Se. Both types have a tendency to view emotions as vapid and nebulous phenomena of little importance; irritating distractions. Both types also share a tendency to see themselves as superrational ubermenschen.

Their traits allow them to be true stoics, whereas INFJs stoics are likely just kidding themselves. They are drawn in by the egalitarian features of the stoic doctrines.

it should work in theory but aren't both ENTP and INTJ kind of... angry and bothered people? also proud, powerplaying people. i don't see it happening.

 

[Sirach2:5]

it should work in theory but aren't both ENTP and INTJ kind of... angry and bothered people? also proud, powerplaying people. i don't see it happening.

This is true. I hold that a mixture nineteen the INTP and the INFJ is the best personality for a stoic

 

[Cherry Cola]

it should work in theory but aren't both ENTP and INTJ kind of... angry and bothered people? also proud, powerplaying people. i don't see it happening.

Trve dat, but I think pride and anger -or rather what they yield, that defiance towards the physical reality of the world, and the measly undertakings of its inhabitants- has them pretty well suited for a stoic life. They care in theory, but in practice are indifferent to or irritated by other people. Seems perfect for stoicism. Then again it does mean that they, just like INFJs can't really embrace the dogmas of stoicism as they are intended. They can act it out, but the psychological motivators enabling them to do so are of a nature which clashes stoic teachings.

Now I'm kinda wondering if any type has what it takes to be a stoic on a phenomenal level.. maybe INTPs do come closest in that sense.

 

[JimJambones]

I think that Stoicism would be widely appealing to INTPs, but it could appeal to different types for different reasons, assuming there is even such a thing as a psychological type to begin with.

Personally, I like looking at the big picture in life and not letting the little details and misfortunes of my life stand in the way of what seems to be the most important aspects of life. I try to avoid excessive emotionalism that leads to egocentrism, which would lead to me loosing sight of how insignificant we are in this vast universe. However, we are still human beings and it is important to understand emotion, not to cater to it, but to put it into focus and recognize that it does have a place in life. Suppression of emotion can be just as disastrous as giving into every emotional whim.

Mostly though, I don't want to think much about how I am feeling at any given moment. I'm sort of indifferent to it, but it can come up from time to time. This is why I think Stoicism is a good, though incomplete, philosophy for the thinking, phlegmatic person to live by. It is a passive way of life that would be appealing to them because of their tendency to just accept things as they are via temperament. Since, INTPs aren't particulary known for having a strong will to influence the world around them, Stoicism seems fitting for them.

It does have its limits though. Perhaps my biggest gripe is that Stoicism strives to be virtuous in the face of social rules and regulations that don't make much sense to me. I question too much to just accept the decisions being made by those higher in the social ladder. This is where I would tend toward Cynicism over Stoicism. I think it is wiser to be a Stoic as long as one isn't being subjected to oppressive people or societies. Once you are, I think Cynicism is more equipped to deal with the things in you life that are having a negative impact on your life.

I think any philosophy that strikes a balance between accepting the nature of things as they are so one isn't consumed by life's disappointments and their own subjectivity, and one of non-acceptance of the things that are being forced upon you by those trying to force their own small view of the world on others, is a philosophy worth having.