Starcraft and other RTS [split]

[Ex-User (9086)]

200% Huk BM mode!
(unless skype, cuz data)

Are you a Terran or Protoss player?

As title suggests, share your experiences and discuss various games from this genre.

 

[Shapelog]

Re: Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

Are you a Terran or Protoss player?

Zerg/Random.

I was going to ask you, but it is quite obv from your name you and your typing style, that you are a protoss.

Aka,

They both bad.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Re: Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

Zerg/Random.

I was going to ask you, but it is quite obv from your name you and your typing style, that you are a protoss.

Aka,

They both bad.

Haha, I'm terran/random man. Though many protoss players seem stiff and dramatic like I do on this site.

 

[Shapelog]

Re: Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

Haha, I'm terran/random man. Though many protoss players seem stiff and dramatic like I do on this site.

Your Terran?
Hold on, let me speak your language.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASAAAAAAAAAAABABABABABABABABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Ctrl:1, Rightclick 1-a, t, aaaaaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaaaaaasaaaas. BS, HOW U GOT BANES, ZERG IMBA, FU. GG.

But yeah, Protoss players are usually stiff bastards when it comes to typing.

Man I am loving this BM. Might not be ENFP after all.

 

[PmjPmj]

Re: Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

I did a Starcraft, once.

I was not very good.

My INTP friend is like "FLARGHAFLRAHGLRAFHGLARGHTLAGHGLAGH!", all over that shit with macros.

I be like:

*leaning close in to monitor, peering over rim of spectacles* (don't actually wear any, but...)

"Oh, I see my units are... yes. I will highlight and... yes, ctrl + 1... that's one group set u- oh! My <random building> is done. I wonder what I can build n- WHY ARE THERE FUCKING ZERGLINGS ALL OVER MY BASE? FUCK THIS GAME!" *ragequit*

 

[Reluctantly]

Re: Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

I did a Starcraft, once.

I was not very good.

My INTP friend is like "FLARGHAFLRAHGLRAFHGLARGHTLAGHGLAGH!", all over that shit with macros.

I be like:

*leaning close in to monitor, peering over rim of spectacles* (don't actually wear any, but...)

"Oh, I see my units are... yes. I will highlight and... yes, ctrl + 1... that's one group set u- oh! My <random building> is done. I wonder what I can build n- WHY ARE THERE FUCKING ZERGLINGS ALL OVER MY BASE? FUCK THIS GAME!" *ragequit*

hah. reminds me of a game of C&C Generals I once played with a friend. I played Chinese and for every foot soldier you make, you get an extra. So I put the base builder close to his at the start and then zerged him with foot soldiers. He got so mad, he wouldn't talk to me for a day and vowed to never play with me again. And he didn't.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Re: Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

BS, HOW U GOT BANES, ZERG IMBA, FU. GG.

; ), I try to avoid calling stuff imba or op even when it blatantly is, because it shuts down the path to improvement and prevents me from thinking about how to get better at the game. I have a few zergy things that I find least comfortable to deal with like swarm hosts or vipers. I mean come on, infinite units? What's this bs blizzard! I was mostly playing sky terran macro sometimes with dual armory mech builds and those things were annoying.

WHY ARE THERE FUCKING ZERGLINGS ALL OVER MY BASE? FUCK THIS GAME!" *ragequit*

I know your pain.
Zerglings are a thing until you learn basic timings and how to close off your exp with depos/racks/cc or pylons/gates/forge.

It can still happen that you will get pooled but it's a gamble and depends on a map. Early gold for zerg sucks too if not scouted.
---
Can we get a list on who's currently in this werewolf game?

 

[Yellow]

Re: Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

Are you a Terran or Protoss player?

How is that even a question?
Zerg is the only way to go. I mean, random is fun sometimes, but with Zerg, there are no limits to what you can do. It doesn't matter who you're against. You never have to fully commit. You can play by feel.

And Terran?! They're a big mess. Protoss is too easy.


anyway, I am tentatively /in for the game, but, I don't know if I can. I can absolutely post during one period each day. Posts during other times are very possible, but not guaranteed. I'm afraid I would drag the game down if the days are only 24 hours.

 

[Shapelog]

Re: Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

; ), I try to avoid calling stuff imba or op even when it blatantly is, because it shuts down the path to improvement and prevents me from thinking about how to get better at the game. I have a few zergy things that I find least comfortable to deal with like swarm hosts or vipers. I mean come on, infinite units? What's this bs blizzard! I was mostly playing sky terran macro sometimes with dual armory mech builds and those things were annoying.

I know your pain.
Zerglings are a thing until you learn basic timings and how to close off your exp with depos/racks/cc or pylons/gates/forge.

It can still happen that you will get pooled but it's a gamble and depends on a map. Early gold for zerg sucks too if not scouted.
---
Can we get a list on who's currently in this werewolf game?

Indeed it does.

Vipers I am kinda on the fence about as a zerg. It is, very good at killing sky mech (or any sky army for that matter) but is it too good? The thing is, is that the rest of Zerg's AA (Hydra's, Muta, Corrupter, Spore) really can't attack into it. You see Zerg's trying to kill Protoss before they get out the end game air, and then, doing Ling bys to try to keep up. Against Terrain, Muta gets shut down by Libs. Corrupters eh, they are ok. Hydras are decent, but are too easy to kill.

I honestly feel the Viper/parasitic bomb is a bandage buff for Zerg AA. I honestly wanted a good AA unit, and we really don't have one.

SH are...Gimmicky for me. Their bane is their supply. I don't have the 15-18 or so supply to build 5-6 of them to make use of it. They're a niche unit IMO.

Zerglings get counter by walls sure. But Drops are now possible.

What league are you in btw?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Re: Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

What league are you in btw?

I was a high diamond on EU during HotS and I stopped playing since. I'm still following the games when the mood hits me. How about you?

I honestly feel the Viper/parasitic bomb is a bandage buff for Zerg AA. I honestly wanted a good AA unit, and we really don't have one.

I see how that can be annoying given the current meta. That said, who would seriously challenge the zerg on the ground . Mech maybe on a good day.

How is that even a question?
Zerg is the only way to go.

I picked terran mostly because their mechanics seemed difficult to master and my 2v2 friend was a protoss so I wanted something good to complement that.

Zerg is indeed quite versatile and flexible but I hate their aesthetics, protoss to me has no late-game macro potential and requires careful exercise of the build.

I love all pure-random players. I think they possess the broadest adaptability and creativity and it's just brilliant how they can mess with their opponents in various ways.

 

[Shapelog]

Re: Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

I was a high diamond on EU during HotS and I stopped playing since. I'm still following the games when the mood hits me. How about you?

I see how that can be annoying given the current meta. That said, who would seriously challenge the zerg on the ground . Mech maybe on a good day.

I picked terran mostly because their mechanics seemed difficult to master and my 2v2 friend was a protoss so I wanted something good to complement that.

Zerg is indeed quite versatile and flexible but I hate their aesthetics, protoss to me has no late-game macro potential and requires careful exercise of the build.

I actually love all pure-random players. I think they possess the broadest adaptability and creativity and it's just brilliant how they can mess with their opponents in various ways.

If I was to actually play consistently High Plat-Lower Dia (maybe higher) I just get burned out before I can get enough wins to advance.

Good point, ults are too god like. I just wish there was a decent AA unit.

Honestly, Terrain prob. have the second hardest mechanics. Protoss being easiest and zerg being hardest (at least for new players). Queen Inject + Larvae usage + Overlord Cycles + Creep Spread + Gas Timings just is a lot to learn. Though, TP is a good 2v2 combo.

TLO was for years, my fav. player till he went full Zerg.

 

[Shapelog]

Wow we made our own Thread!

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I liked the protoss in the original more, with the mind control and ability to play as 3 races simultaneously. Reaver - shuttle plays were exciting. I liked all those utility units like science vessels, arbiters, queens with parasite, etc. Now utility is largely disregarded or considered late game, like using vipers or motherships.

You can play a colossus drop but it's cheese and it's not the same thing as a reaver.

TLO is a cool guy. I think if random was a required tournament format and finals were 9 game matches of zvz, zvt zvp tvt tvz, etc. There would be no problems with balancing and meta would be more interesting.

 

[Hadoblado]

You have no idea how sad it makes me to not be up to date with SCII while everyone else is T-T

Back in WoL I was top dia. I took a long time getting there which made it very difficult to get to master, despite winning against them 75%+ of the time. I played every race except random (can't stand random), though my zerg was only mid dia, and my protoss was plat.

I played a mech tech brew game as terran capitalising on the threat of 1/1/1 while ecoing+tech. I found TvT and TvZ pretty easy, but struggled against 'toss since mech kinda got wrecked by everything they did. I was so bad at marine micro I refused to make any past the unupgraded ones I built from my first barracks to stay alive.

When HoTs came out I played a bit, but didn't really enjoy it as much. Most of the changes pushed Terran towards MMM which I don't like. I never got the hang of new zerg once infestor was changed either, and the heavy tech emphasis made it feel less fluid to me? I haven't played the final expansion yet.

 

[Shapelog]

I liked the protoss in the original more, with the mind control and ability to play as 3 races simultaneously. Reaver - shuttle plays were exciting. I liked all those utility units like science vessels, arbiters, queens with parasite, etc. Now utility is largely disregarded or considered late game, like using vipers or motherships.

You can play a colossus drop but it's cheese and it's not the same thing as a reaver.

TLO is a cool guy. I think if random was a required tournament format and finals were 9 game matches of zvz, zvt zvp tvt tvz, etc. There would be no problems with balancing and meta would be more interesting.

I agree,

I mean, compare BW:toss to Lotv:Toss in the drop department.

BW:toss Revear drops, Zeelot Drops, etc.
Lotv Toss: Adapt Drops ????

Like the Warp prism is cool and all, but no protoss player ever is going to invest like that now with how the game is played. Colossus Drops I've never seen ever. Maybe now with the range pick up buff? but that is a big investment, and the time it hits, Z/T/P can all have air out to deal with it.

You could, I guess, make Reaver Drop 2.0 using disputers? That would make sense, but be as late as colossus.

Unity units in Sc2 have always either been useless or so good (cough infestor) that they had to nerf them. Raven's were nerfed due to slow mech, oracles are basically gone now in lotv, Sentries are still OK, but are used less. Warp Prism is a harass unit, MSC is the most dumbest thing now (not unit wise, I mean toss doesn't actually need it, and it was a bandage heal when they did) and etc. Mothership's are just horrible, Not enough DPS, Votex is gone for Time warp (which MSC has.) Cloak just means MS will get focused down, and mass recall is decent.

Random format: That would be fun, but it would be a best of 15, due to having to make it fair, each player gets to be each race in a match up. 9 different match ups, and 6 of which have different race set ups. Balance would still matter too.

You have no idea how sad it makes me to not be up to date with SCII while everyone else is T-T

Back in WoL I was top dia. I took a long time getting there which made it very difficult to get to master, despite winning against them 75%+ of the time. I played every race except random (can't stand random), though my zerg was only mid dia, and my protoss was plat.

I played a mech tech brew game as terran capitalising on the threat of 1/1/1 while ecoing+tech. I found TvT and TvZ pretty easy, but struggled against 'toss since mech kinda got wrecked by everything they did. I was so bad at marine micro I refused to make any past the unupgraded ones I built from my first barracks to stay alive.

When HoTs came out I played a bit, but didn't really enjoy it as much. Most of the changes pushed Terran towards MMM which I don't like. I never got the hang of new zerg once infestor was changed either, and the heavy tech emphasis made it feel less fluid to me? I haven't played the final expansion yet.

HoTs didn't push Terran directly into MMM, in fact, it arguebly was the best time for mech.

With sky/ground Weapon/amour being combined, Hellbat, Mine (which was basically a cheaper siege tank) and a small meta change into 3 bases, Mech was more better then in WoL.

What happen, was the medvic. A unit, already GOOD at it's niche, was decided to be "risky" and was given a speed boost. So, what happen? Now we have MMM dropping in your nat main and 3rd at once. And not losing anything or not much for it.

Now a days, Mech is in a weird spot.

Libs make mech pretty able to have both ground and air advantage. But in TvT, Bio still wins cause they make 4 tanks and now fucking med. can pick up siege tanks (Gj Blizzard. Way to make that Risky niche unit even better) and destroying what mech is suppose to be good at. Map Control.

Zerg basically can Rofl Stomp on any late game mech due to 8 Arm. Ults. Meaning you have to attack mid game or die (bio has same prob.)

Mech vs Protoss is still like it was back then. But you can be more aggressive with it though.

My Mech buddy uses either a Vik/Mine/Hellon(bat) with a lib or two Combo into mid game push, or Lib+Mine+Hellon+Thor for a more late game focus.

 

[Shapelog]

Lol, now I want to play sc2

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Colossus Drops I've never seen ever.

It's quite an old tactic. Very micro intensive as most toss stuff. There were times when toss won simply by having near-perfect blink micro, force fields and damage control, or any strong 1-2 base all in.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO5N_m5M_sk

You could, I guess, make Reaver Drop 2.0 using disputers? That would make sense, but be as late as colossus.

Forgot about disruptors, they work similarly to reavers, but the attacks are slower and more predictable.

Random format: That would be fun, but it would be a best of 15, due to having to make it fair, each player gets to be each race in a match up. 9 different match ups, and 6 of which have different race set ups.

Yes, I later thought it would need more than 9 to make sense.

 

[Hadoblado]

I agree,

I mean, compare BW:toss to Lotv:Toss in the drop department.

BW:toss Revear drops, Zeelot Drops, etc.
Lotv Toss: Adapt Drops ????

Like the Warp prism is cool and all, but no protoss player ever is going to invest like that now with how the game is played. Colossus Drops I've never seen ever. Maybe now with the range pick up buff? but that is a big investment, and the time it hits, Z/T/P can all have air out to deal with it.

You could, I guess, make Reaver Drop 2.0 using disputers? That would make sense, but be as late as colossus.

Unity units in Sc2 have always either been useless or so good (cough infestor) that they had to nerf them. Raven's were nerfed due to slow mech, oracles are basically gone now in lotv, Sentries are still OK, but are used less. Warp Prism is a harass unit, MSC is the most dumbest thing now (not unit wise, I mean toss doesn't actually need it, and it was a bandage heal when they did) and etc. Mothership's are just horrible, Not enough DPS, Votex is gone for Time warp (which MSC has.) Cloak just means MS will get focused down, and mass recall is decent.

Random format: That would be fun, but it would be a best of 15, due to having to make it fair, each player gets to be each race in a match up. 9 different match ups, and 6 of which have different race set ups. Balance would still matter too.

HoTs didn't push Terran directly into MMM, in fact, it arguebly was the best time for mech.

With sky/ground Weapon/amour being combined, Hellbat, Mine (which was basically a cheaper siege tank) and a small meta change into 3 bases, Mech was more better then in WoL.

What happen, was the medvic. A unit, already GOOD at it's niche, was decided to be "risky" and was given a speed boost. So, what happen? Now we have MMM dropping in your nat main and 3rd at once. And not losing anything or not much for it.

Now a days, Mech is in a weird spot.

Libs make mech pretty able to have both ground and air advantage. But in TvT, Bio still wins cause they make 4 tanks and now fucking med. can pick up siege tanks (Gj Blizzard. Way to make that Risky niche unit even better) and destroying what mech is suppose to be good at. Map Control.

Zerg basically can Rofl Stomp on any late game mech due to 8 Arm. Ults. Meaning you have to attack mid game or die (bio has same prob.)

Mech vs Protoss is still like it was back then. But you can be more aggressive with it though.

My Mech buddy uses either a Vik/Mine/Hellon(bat) with a lib or two Combo into mid game push, or Lib+Mine+Hellon+Thor for a more late game focus.

The merging of mech and air ups was good. But all the other changes kind of rewarded MMM more. Why? Well, MMM built a fac anyway. So they got access to widowmines, hellbats, and siege tanks (now with siege mode without further investement). All of which are units that counter heavily and thus don't require upgrades to be utilised effectively. Essentially, MMM got to round out its composition using all of the mech stuff, while most barracks units fell off too hard to be useful without upgrades.

The medivac changes at that time made them insane. I couldn't believe they made medvacs even better...

What happened to ultras? When I played they felt decidedly not strong. You made them, because you needed heavy hitters that survived any amount of time against anti-swarm measures, but they weren't efficient for something that required that much tech.

 

[Shapelog]

It's quite an old tactic. Very micro intensive as most toss stuff. There were times when toss won simply by having near-perfect blink micro, force fields and damage control, or any strong 1-2 base all in.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO5N_m5M_sk

Forgot about disruptors, they work similarly to reavers, but the attacks are slower and more predictable.

Yes, I later thought it would need more than 9 to make sense.

Omg those drops look amazing.

The merging of mech and air ups was good. But all the other changes kind of rewarded MMM more. Why? Well, MMM built a fac anyway. So they got access to widowmines, hellbats, and siege tanks (now with siege mode without further investement). All of which are units that counter heavily and thus don't require upgrades to be utilised effectively. Essentially, MMM got to round out its composition using all of the mech stuff, while most barracks units fell off too hard to be useful without upgrades.

The medivac changes at that time made them insane. I couldn't believe they made medvacs even better...

What happened to ultras? When I played they felt decidedly not strong. You made them, because you needed heavy hitters that survived any amount of time against anti-swarm measures, but they weren't efficient for something that required that much tech.

Good point about bio-hybridizes.

Ultras now have a upgrade (name escapes me, due to me calling it always the god mode upgrade) that gives it plus 4 amour + the 1 it spawns with + and from upgrades from evo.

Meaning Ultras have 8 Amour.

0/0 Marines do 9 Dmg IIRC, meaning Marines do 1 dmg per shot vs them. 4 if upgraded fully.
It takes IIRC 160 something 0/0 Mutas to kill them in 1 shot, and bout 40 or something for 3/3 Mutas.
Marauders don't work now since they shoot 2 bullets per shot, which means the 8 gets turned into 16 vs their base line damage.

Basically, the only way (bio) Terrain can kill them off is either Ghost or Lib. Ultas just survive for so long now, that Ling bane follow up kills anything they didn't. Tho, LBM is basically gone do to libs so.....

 

[Yellow]

..no end game?!

I should clarify that I've never played SC2, just regular old Starcraft with the Broodwar expansion pack. I forget that there is a more modern version of the game. Though, if they sucked up Zerg that badly with their re-do, then I'm glad I've not played it.

In Starcraft, the original game, Zerg is the way to go, with sometimes playing on random for either variety, or to throw off enemies that are weak outside their favorite race.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I miss the heydays of broodwar. Flash beating the pulp out of other players just out of strategic dominance, 2-1 mech timings, vZ drop timings, vT macro.. it's like he doesn't even play, just a bunch of mindless macroing and victory screen.

If I had better specs on my computer I'd probably be playing LotV but can't be bothered to :[

 

[Hadoblado]

I was a bit of a flash fanboy. Oh and the dong. Bunker rush and 4pooleveryday4dayz <3

Unfortunately I didn't have internet during the hayday of any of the pioneers. I'd have loved to have been watching as Boxer was rising to power. Or during Firebathero's ego-tripping. Or Julyzerg... Man... Now I look back on it I think I missed more than I caught... T-T

Wow those ultras sound formidable. Eight armor is insane. Flat armor systems are always interesting since you get all these highly specific meta strats. It just... I dunno... Has more character(?) than percentile systems? Having the effectiveness of an upgrade have an organic interaction with whatever its interacting with just feels better than a flat 10% or w/e like it was in warcraft and other games. I would very much like to try out a zerg endgame that didn't require pissing about with broodlords and the like. I want to zerg goddamit! Units -> in your face 4eva.

If the game is currently unhealthy, is there no big fix coming since that was the last expansion?

@Blar
I always preferred 2xImmortal drop. Not because it was necessarily more effective, I just don't like Colossus. Immo drop could be thrown down anywhere and between hardened shield and their weight class, they would burst out a bunch of damage to keystructures/workers/techunits then disappear. Twas always fun repeatedly sniping spire before it was up so they could never get the mutas to shut you down. Apparently immortals are different these days though...

@Yellow
Yeah zerg in BW were exceptional. Back in the day when cracklings meant something and defilers/lurkers reined supreme.

 

[The Gopher]

I build 4 shiny doorways. I wait for nasty terrain to push. I wait till he is almost at my base then warp in 4 sword guys at his base. I make bubble at my driveway. Nasty terrain run in circles. I win game. Yay! I almost out of silver.

Then hado saved me and I became an intellectual and a scholar and learned the way of the zerg. One day I'll get our of bronze.

 

[Hadoblado]

Did I have you 10 pooling or 14 pooling?

Teams games were always a rush fest.

 

[The Gopher]

Yeah I think I built 14 pools or something. My base was like a high end resort.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

In Starcraft, the original game, Zerg is the way to go, with sometimes playing on random for either variety, or to throw off enemies that are weak outside their favorite race.

Not really imo, I liked all the races in SC1, Zerg felt the easiest given the clunky interface and lack of useful commands that were introduced in SC2.

..no end game?!

Protoss in sc2 can't expect to reach endgame as far as their opponent allows them to do so, they will most likely be pressured into a rushed attack or tech mind games and counter builds. Protoss are very easily harassed and their economy is weak and slow to set up and rebuild, they can't compete in the later stages provided constant harassment or pressure on multiple fronts. Their armies are also the slowest and react very poorly to multiple attacks at once.

I should clarify that I've never played SC2, just regular old Starcraft with the Broodwar expansion pack. I forget that there is a more modern version of the game. Though, if they sucked up Zerg that badly with their re-do, then I'm glad I've not played it.

How did they suck Zerg up? Zerg are playable and do well competitively, not sure why you're going to such conclusions, aside from the obvious old school nostalgia bias on your part .

@Blar
I always preferred 2xImmortal drop. Not because it was necessarily more effective, I just don't like Colossus.

Immo is less effective against terran overall. Plus colossus drop serves a different function, it outranges terran units and this puts better pressure on them. The same can't be achieved using immortals as the warp prism would easily be shot down or separated from the immo. Certainly it's not a mainstream tactic and I wouldn't say it's a very good one compared to other options, good for the surprise element though.

immo+prism can be finished off by bio or any unit. Colossus+prism need to be surprised, chased by vikings or steam marines.

 

[Shapelog]

..no end game?!

I should clarify that I've never played SC2, just regular old Starcraft with the Broodwar expansion pack. I forget that there is a more modern version of the game. Though, if they sucked up Zerg that badly with their re-do, then I'm glad I've not played it.

In Starcraft, the original game, Zerg is the way to go, with sometimes playing on random for either variety, or to throw off enemies that are weak outside their favorite race.

Not in ZvT really no.

Zerg has prob. the best End game over all. Thou, BW zerg > then sc2 zerg