Society: A Force For Conformity?

[nschlaff]

I have been thinking a lot about the pros and cons of culture lately. And I developed a theory regarding the effects of culture. Please let me know if you agree, disagree, or if you have any additional thoughts regarding the topic:

Culture consists of subjective individuals, whose individual inclinations and subjectivities comprise a societal consciousness. This societal consciousness can be defined as popular modes of thinking and behavior. Any behavior or thought deviant from the norm established by the societal consciousness, the collective subjectivities of people, is considered a threat and people who hold minority views or practices are excluded from society. Hence, the real dictator and oppressor in a society of individuals is the collective force of their views, called the Societal Consciousness. Culture, government and people merely follow what this overarching consciousness dictates.

To try to follow up with this theory:

Do you think that the societal consciousness exists?

If it exists, do you think it functions as an oppressor?

Is there any way to modify this societal consciousness to be less oppressive or to make people immune to the conforming effects of this consciousness?

I can't wait to hear your thoughts!

 

[Architect]

Do you think that the societal consciousness exists?

Yes, I would notice this when flying back to the US after an extended overseas business trip. While there (Asia or Europe) I lived in a more introverted space, because that's how people acted. It fit quite well with my predilections. This continued in the air, until we started the landing sequence. As soon as we started to descend to U.S. soil, you could feel it. Like there was a social bubble, extending upwards, that we were entering. There was a noticeable buzz, people would chat with each other more. Notice this didn't occur in the other direction, landing in Frankfurt people were much more circumspect.

It was weird. I probably was picking up on the reaction of the people around me suddenly acting like they did at home. But oddly these people, just a few minutes ago, were acting more introverted and self contained. Now they were acting like friendly puppies (American culture).

Jung believed in a collective unconscious which is the same idea I believe.

If it exists, do you think it functions as an oppressor?

Depends on your point of view. Possibly. ESxx types wouldn't see it that way. INxx's probably would.

Is there any way to modify this societal consciousness to be less oppressive or to make people immune to the conforming effects of this consciousness?

Not easily (without expending psychic energy on the problem.) I think it's better to just go ahead and live your life as if it doesn't exist; you'll get roughly the same results.

 

[BigApplePi]

I have been thinking a lot about the pros and cons of culture lately. And I developed a theory regarding the effects of culture. Please let me know if you agree, disagree, or if you have any additional thoughts regarding the topic:

I have a quickie response to this vast topic.

Culture consists of subjective individuals, whose individual inclinations and subjectivities comprise a societal consciousness. This societal consciousness can be defined as popular modes of thinking and behavior.

Absolutely. There is no such thing as an individual.

Any behavior or thought deviant from the norm established by the societal consciousness, the collective subjectivities of people, is considered a threat and people who hold minority views or practices are excluded from society.

Society almost by definition is cooperation. There is a resistance to any tearing apart.

Hence, the real dictator and oppressor in a society of individuals is the collective force of their views, called the Societal Consciousness. Culture, government and people merely follow what this overarching consciousness dictates.

Society, like individuals, incur change. Change is going to eventually bump into trouble. Trouble is oppressive.

To try to follow up with this theory:

Do you think that the societal consciousness exists?

If I have consciousness, so does society.

If it exists, do you think it functions as an oppressor?

Answered above. This reference is not really going to help much: Motion (change) is a tool for understanding.

Is there any way to modify this societal consciousness to be less oppressive or to make people immune to the conforming effects of this consciousness?

Society should wise up. No you don't want immunity to conformity else society would fall apart. What you want is awareness to change.

I can't wait to hear your thoughts!

I couldn't wait to write that, lol.

 

[IdeasNotTheProblem]

[QUOTE

Is there any way to modify this societal consciousness to be less oppressive or to make people immune to the conforming effects of this consciousness? [/QUOTE]




Yes. Vote for Ron Paul.

 

[Architect]

Yes. Vote for Ron Paul.

Oh, Ron Paul. The Ralph Nadar of the Republican party; always there; always unelectable.

This is a multi-national board however.

 

[BigApplePi]

Oh, Ron Paul. ... always there; always unelectable.

Always principled. The trouble with society is as is grows it becomes more powerful. Unlike individuals who can learn humility since there are many other individuals around, societies haven't learned how to leave things alone.

 

[Etheri]

A short synthesis on my thoughts related to this subject would be :

Society judges by it's norm. It's norm is set by (the illusion of) democracy, power of the masses. It's rarely the best option, instead it is what people believe. Everyone who deviates from the norm gets judged, despite the fact that most people love to ignore and deny the fact that they don't perfectly fit in themselves.

The norm typically maintains itself until a diffrent but popular belief overthrows it, since people are raised to conform with the norm. The main reason for society working this way, is because the majority of people are inherently both judgemental and dislike thinking.

This norm dictates a lot. It influences all of us, regardless of critical thought and careful analysis. It sets our morals and beliefs. It dictates what we think and who we are. Our personalities are undeniably linked with our environment, our society and its norm. As much as we dislike it, especially intuitive thinkers, if we grew up in an entirely diffrent culture, we'd have diffrent beliefs and ideas. And even if changing culture later in life won't instantly change your thinking pattern, it will have clear effects on our behaviour.

'You' are only 'you' in 'your environment'. You're a diffrent 'you' in a diffrent environment. Society dictates and influences you, and you can't get past this, because it's a part of you now.

 

[ideae]

There is no such thing as an individual.

If you truly feel so, feel free to sacrifice yourself for the greater good of society.

Society almost by definition is cooperation. There is a resistance to any tearing apart.
Society, like individuals, incur change. Change is going to eventually bump into trouble. Trouble is oppressive.

So we should never take up any risks and abandon progress for safety? If the world worked your way, we would still stay as cavemen because such a lifestyle was more convenient. When Einstein published his Annus Mirabilis papers, he didn't think about what the physics community (who considered physics to be finished) would think about them, or conformed to the status quo because it was more convenient. He thought by himself, and that is what has given him such a renown.

If I have consciousness, so does society.

How? See, there is no such thing as society. You cannot touch a society, you can only touch an individual comprising it. Thing is, we all think independently. We are not part of any higher consciousness; we are naturally freethinking individuals. What is so great about this is that, the more you doubt it, the more you justify it.

About the original post, there is no societal consciousness apart from convenient majority thinking because, as I have said, we all think independently. This majority thinking obviously will contradict with our natural independent thinking and resort to the matters of oppression and silencing referred to as the tyranny of the majority. As such, it is inherently dangerous to critical thinking and individuality and only serves to create uniform, primitive, and dull people. The only way to achieve true progress is by breaking through these bonds and thinking independently and critically, by doing not what is expected but what is logical.

 

[INeedToPee]

Do you think that the societal consciousness exists?

yes, as long as society exists and the people within interact with each other, i believe there will be some sort of societal consciousness. how influential it is will vary from society to society, but it will still exist one way or another

If it exists, do you think it functions as an oppressor?

it does for those outside the "norm" but nowadays, societal views are more liberal than they were in the past. but there definitely is a degree of "oppression"

Is there any way to modify this societal consciousness to be less oppressive or to make people immune to the conforming effects of this consciousness?

yes, we need xNFx s to preach!
take martin luther king for example. him and everyone else involved in the equalilty movement lessened the oppression through preaching. convince individuals and soon enough, their collective views will shift, hopefully for the better.
as for making people immune to conformity, i think that's hardwired into our brains (mbti), ESFJs are probably going to be the strongest conformists. ive come to realize that you can't teach people to not conform. i think its inherent.