so attempting to enter the dating world....

[kayne]

well i posted something similar on the intj forums as i found them first but wanted to see what my INTP brothers and sisters have to say on the matter because quite frankly the amount of similarities between me and a lot of the posts here are frightening.

i essentially aside from two failed dates one last week and one months before that a friend brought me a long to double date i havent dated in like 10 years and even then only barely in high school i feel like knowledge i should of gained then i never did and i am stuck now at 27 trying to figure it out.

my point here is mostly so i dont fail at every date i manage to get not so much that the next one is the one for me though admittely that would be nice to spend less time fumbling around looking.

so there is this girl. we at church and like most human interactions she approached me i rarely approach people even women. well we have talked some on sundays. she claims she came by to see me(we live like 10 feet apart college university student housing situation) a few weeks back but it was mid term week.

well finnally got her number some time after that. well then it was fall break so nothing came of it that week.

well tonight i was coming home from class and ran into her and she invited me to come with her to some church halloween party. now bear in mind i have 4 hours straight of classes on monday and was always peopled out. but i went anyway which while i never said it is as any INTP can surely say a huge gesture of i enjoy your company because that party i was ready to leave within a minute i was peopled out as such i was mostly quite but i have mingled with enough people to be able to crowd surf and not be to awkward.

well in a display of complete social klutziness she decided to leave early however my brain instantly thought(that and Thank the heavens i can leave now) my bookbag is in her car i need to go with her so without saying bye to anyone i just jumped up and darted after her. how odd this probably looked i have no idea but i am sure this was nothing short of being in the top 10 do not do social moments and if there is top 10 i am sure i have done all 10.

now i was going to ask her out but a combination of awkward conversation, silence and me and her both being partied out me more so though i think i didnt even though this was chance if there ever was one. though despite this we proceed to have more fun silence on her couch for the next hour or two. she did homework and i watched tv and her roommates broke up our silence on occassion. i would of done homework but she didnt know her roommates internet router password. i do seriously wonder what her roommates thought about this it had to look weird especially following my epic leave scene at that party. i think she is also somewhat introverted which shares and understands some of the odd silence at least in comparison to her roommates which are far more talkative when ive been around than she ever is and far more capable of dragging me into a conversation.

now i suspect i could get a yes out of her by asking her out because she seems to enjoy me walking her home on sundays and sitting by her on sundays. and tends to enjoy my company when we have interacted. though being mostly social backwards and clueless i take forever to notice these things.

my problem here is mostly this. suppose she says yes lets go out....well i would like to not totally fail like last week i failed on that date because it went flying over my head give her a kiss and hug really this was fail she asked me about weather where i am from a full 2 minutes earlier and my brain was still going on about weather the level of fail in this is staggering. though at least this girl handled 2 hours of awkward conversation and silence and wasnt repulsed by me so this is quite good.

but the other problem if she says no and i completely am misreading this....well this has taken a solid 2 months of effort and she is doing a lot of that effort though apparently i am not alone since it seems classic INTP way of saying i care back is by merely letting you be around me or not avoiding you or accepting the invitation to be around you.

i have always taken months to make friends in regular school(k-12) this is easy run into someone enough you have months to do so. this created enough of a social structure that outside of high school i could maintain this and a lot of my friends were extrovert personalities which made it easier so my system has worked. but i am now in college and 2200 miles away from home this system is slow and ineffecient yet it is the only one i know.

and should this girl say no or we break up which who knows i would never sink all my chips into that kind of situation i would be back to where i am right now. granted girls tend to approach me which i know defies logic i rarely approach people there is still tons of awkward conversation and annoying small talk to filter through. but the guy still has to do the date asking and the first kiss hugging crap. and quite frankly i am uncomfortable speeding up the process nor do i speak well enough around new people to do so unless they just happen to be talking about something i am well versed in(politics? computers? video games? philosophy? random facts? psychology?) all real topics a lot of people just go on about daily seriously the amount of random crap i find out about is crazy and oh yes i have seen such classics like "seribian film" which give me one of the craziest tastes in movies ever

the only non roommate friend and even roommates i dont lump into friend territory but that friend is really a result of we saw each other at church for like 3 months straight and talked and finnally he just said come over for some food. which is really how i make friends slow and steady its how ive always done it because i am just not comfortable letting everyone into my personal space.

which again brings us to the world of dating that is slow and ineffecient and would like to not have to do that for everyone but i sincerely cannot help it.

though at the very least my extremely extroverted roommate(pick the most extroverted type and x100 and that is him seriously this guy can attract friends like a moth to light) knows i rode with her to that halloween thing tonight and was over hanging out with her for a while afterwards so at the very least he will probably bug me to no end about it. i suspect this will be incoming if nothing i might actually speed it up and find out for sure one way or another just because i do want to but i prefer not be bugged about it.

oh and FYI she has like 3 tests this week so the odds of social interaction are quite low before someone says CALL HER TOMMORROW though later this week isnt ruled out of the possibility.

 

[EditorOne]

You seem to spend a lot of time worrying about what others think about your actions and behavior.

Cut it out.

See if that helps.

("If you knew how much time they spent worrying about how people see them, you'd realize they probably barely noticed you." Read it in a book long ago, a sage grandfather's advice to his anxious grandson.)

There's no spotlight on you.

Others don't zero in on you the moment you appear. They don't really care about you and don't really notice you. Some might be disturbed by that thought, but I take great comfort in it.

You need to worry about just her. If you are giving off discomfort signals from being "peopled out," great phrase, she is very very likely to misinterpret that as a product of her presence if she's not familiar with the peculiarities of the INTP mind. You can actually deliberately communicate how you're feeling, you know: "I'm not real good around people. Can you cut me some slack while I adjust my mental pillows and settle in?" You just turned a potential misunderstanding into some clarity plus an opportunity for conversation and, not insignificantly, you offered to put yourself in her debt. That's badly worded, but you see what I mean?

I really do think you worry and/or overthink stuff. Overthinking is the enemy of action. I think I made that up but I'm so old I might have heard it 40 years ago and forgotten it until now.

 

[EditorOne]

OH, and you seem to be dialed in on the costs and consequences of failure. Cut that out, too, or you will never act. "Do not take counsel of your fears." Ancient advice from some ambitious Greek in 332 bc, I think.

INTPs are not good at flirting or exploring a relationship. OR getting out of a bad one, sometimes. I'm way out of practice, but why not treat this woman you like as series of small projects rather than a big all-or-nothing? Why not think about where you want to be, and then envision seven steps to achieve that? It lets you analyze progress or failure one step at a time so you can realize one small misstep doesn't mean doom. It just means you try something out.

Final observation is that you don't need to follow everyone else's paradigm involving parties and whatnot. INTPs find various things interesting. When we do our enthusiasm shows and is attractive. Share your interests with her; it's when you'll be at your best. Parties are when you'll be at your worst, unless you adopt the default "I'm a surly bastard" pose as a disguise and that's not particularly attractive. Then, very importantly, spend at least half your time with this woman talking about HER and HER INTERESTS. Not only will you learn important things that will affect your understanding and the process of building a relationship, it's a proven relationship builder.

End of advice.

 

[Felan]

What EditorOne said but adding if you can't cut out the negative, take them to absurb extremes so that you can laugh at them.

Instead of "though being mostly social backwards and clueless i take forever to notice these things" say, "if only the supernova would appear bask us in the glow of its dying light I would know she was interested" (absurd on many levels).

Instead of "and should this girl say no or we break up which who knows i would never sink all my chips into that kind of situation i would be back to where i am right now" say, "if she says no the world might split in half with her forever drifting away on the half I'm not on".

Best is to not be so self-critical, but if you find yourself doing it take it to the absurd. Once the mind recognizes the thought as silly it becomes easier to dispell. At least for me it has.

 

[digital angel]

Relax, I think you're being too harsh on yourself. I'm sure you didn't fail and won't have a bad date.

 

[downsowf]

Classic case of overanalyzing. I resort to overanalyzing sometimes too. Usually, this is because I want to find any excuse not to pursue a relationship since having a committed relationship terrifies me. Admittedly, this probably has to do with my emotional immaturity and wanting to be selfish with my time.

I think there are two kinds of silence: (1) awkward silence and (2) silence when you don't need to talk because you feel comfortable with that person. There is another reason you might find it hard to have a conversation. This is when you're "smitten." You can't talk, you don't know what to say, and you act goofy. It's an odd and rare feeling. Perhaps this is what is happening to you. This girl obviously likes you. Why else would she waste her time with you? It's okay to take things slow, but it is important not to drop the ball and to pick up on signals as well. You don't want to get lumped into the "friend zone." As Editor said, keep the topic on her. Ask about her interests. Then start taking an interest in her interests. People love talking about themselves.

The next time you go on a date or whatever, ask her if you could kiss her. I know this sounds weird, but this is what I do when things are going really well in a conversation and there has been a mutual attraction. Don't throw it out at an awkward time. If she says no then so be it. At least you know where you stand and you won't regret over having not tried. Obviously don't do this if you don't feel comfortable.

 

[kayne]

you folks are right i am overly self critical and over anaylzing it then again i wouldnt agree with 85% of the folks around here and our odd habits if this wasnt the case lol its my natural default state. it seems the INTP nature to overthink damn near everything and if i didnt post it here i would just be overthinking it in my head alone as i know no other method. that said i appreciate the replies helping me sort it out.

OH, and you seem to be dialed in on the costs and consequences of failure. Cut that out, too, or you will never act. "Do not take counsel of your fears." Ancient advice from some ambitious Greek in 332 bc, I think

.

good old ancient greeks they always have sound advice i like that. i tend to love the ancient advice of our old dead ancestors always so spot on its scary.

I think there are two kinds of silence: (1) awkward silence and (2) silence when you don't need to talk because you feel comfortable with that person. There is another reason you might find it hard to have a conversation. This is when you're "smitten." You can't talk, you don't know what to say, and you act goofy. It's an odd and rare feeling. Perhaps this is what is happening to you. This girl obviously likes you. Why else would she waste her time with you? It's okay to take things slow, but it is important not to drop the ball and to pick up on signals as well. You don't want to get lumped into the "friend zone." As Editor said, keep the topic on her. Ask about her interests. Then start taking an interest in her interests. People love talking about themselves.

i get "smitten" around new people fairly often. i eventually get over the longer i know someone but that can take a while. i do admit this was likely a product of being totally peopled out by the end of the night that amplified this greatly

i do admit i have no idea which kind of silence it was i think flipped between the two though i think it progressed into the latter. but honestly i have no clue since i can be perfectly content being silent and have a good time with someone but i realize this is a somewhat rare trait and i havent run into people that think that way before most even other introverted people i know try and talk and avoid silence i think ive only known one other person we could play a co-op game for hours and barely talk and have fun.

INTPs are not good at flirting or exploring a relationship. OR getting out of a bad one, sometimes. I'm way out of practice, but why not treat this woman you like as series of small projects rather than a big all-or-nothing? Why not think about where you want to be, and then envision seven steps to achieve that? It lets you analyze progress or failure one step at a time so you can realize one small misstep doesn't mean doom. It just means you try something out.

i do like this bit. i may go at it and the dating world in general as small step by step things. i guess thinking like programming one function at a time make sure it works if it does make the next one. i must be weird comparing dating to programming LOL not sure why but it makes a ton sense to me i may go at it like that.

Final observation is that you don't need to follow everyone else's paradigm involving parties and whatnot. INTPs find various things interesting. When we do our enthusiasm shows and is attractive. Share your interests with her; it's when you'll be at your best. Parties are when you'll be at your worst, unless you adopt the default "I'm a surly bastard" pose as a disguise and that's not particularly attractive. Then, very importantly, spend at least half your time with this woman talking about HER and HER INTERESTS. Not only will you learn important things that will affect your understanding and the process of building a relationship, it's a proven relationship builder.

you are right. unfortunently there seem to be few people like me i usually dont find other quite people i suspect because they are doing what i am doing not coming out of their shell so most social interactions i see are around out going folks. so i only have what i have figured out to go on and on some level outside influence like people and media do affect everyone's perception on these things whether they wish to admit it or not and that is all based around the out going person.

You seem to spend a lot of time worrying about what others think about your actions and behavior.

i only do this around people i have some interest in seeing more often. but i do admit i put up a face that hides my innerself and that is normally what i show people granted its still me it just hides the many layers of my brain. specifically i have a hard drawing the fine line between meeting new people and opening up with them vs opening up but not sharing secrets since to me opening up involves disclosing some level of secrecy that you keep from the world whether these things or good or bad is irrelevant. i dont always care but i do realize it can be off putting to people so i dont always do that. this then leads me to care what others might think.

a great example would be say i have stolen 10000 dollars before. that could easily get lumped into casual opening up with people if i dont put up a very strong brick wall and face around new people. even if i did it say 10 years ago and havent done any stealing in 7 years. i fully realize this could result in unneccessary tension and the first sign something goes missing i will get blamed instantly or people will then just not trust me(you know gossip) and i just have a hard time seperating secrets from casual reveal without a very strong brick wall between the two for me it almost becomes an instant casual to full on reveal

so shouldnt it be ok on some level to ya know care what other people think? i mean i do have some secrets that people might call the mental house on me for so i'd rather avoid such scenarios. i guess i need to be better at figuring out what is proper and what is not.

You need to worry about just her. If you are giving off discomfort signals from being "peopled out," great phrase, she is very very likely to misinterpret that as a product of her presence if she's not familiar with the peculiarities of the INTP mind. You can actually deliberately communicate how you're feeling, you know: "I'm not real good around people. Can you cut me some slack while I adjust my mental pillows and settle in?" You just turned a potential misunderstanding into some clarity plus an opportunity for conversation and, not insignificantly, you offered to put yourself in her debt. That's badly worded, but you see what I mean?

yea i think we both kind of mentioned casually being peopled out but i have no idea she said she was sick too so i have no idea how much is partied out,sick,had to take a test, or had to come home and clean.

 

[Zionoxis]

I can completely relate to this entire post. I either have the girls I am completely comfortable with (the ones I do not care to get into a relationship with) and the girls that the moment I begin to even consider the idea of getting into a relationship, my tongue is tied and my brain ceases to offer suggestions of conversation. I try asking questions about her, but I am an utter failure. My questions are most likely inadequate as multiple girls generally respond with one to two word answers.

You are quite a bit older than me OP, but if you do find the magical solution, feel free to pass that knowledge down to us young folk.

 

[Zionoxis]

I can completely relate to this entire post. I either have the girls I am completely comfortable with (the ones I do not care to get into a relationship with) and the girls that the moment I begin to even consider the idea of getting into a relationship, my tongue is tied and my brain ceases to offer suggestions of conversation. I try asking questions about her, but I am an utter failure. My questions are most likely inadequate as multiple girls generally respond with one to two word answers.

You are quite a bit older than me OP, but if you do find the magical solution, feel free to pass that knowledge down to us young folk.

 

[EditorOne]

"a great example would be say i have stolen 10000 dollars before."

Well, there's your first problem. Steal ten million dollars, not ten thousand.

 

[kayne]

"a great example would be say i have stolen 10000 dollars before."

Well, there's your first problem. Steal ten million dollars, not ten thousand.

LOL tushay

I can completely relate to this entire post. I either have the girls I am completely comfortable with (the ones I do not care to get into a relationship with) and the girls that the moment I begin to even consider the idea of getting into a relationship, my tongue is tied and my brain ceases to offer suggestions of conversation. I try asking questions about her, but I am an utter failure. My questions are most likely inadequate as multiple girls generally respond with one to two word answers.

You are quite a bit older than me OP, but if you do find the magical solution, feel free to pass that knowledge down to us young folk.

my advice from reading these forums and other stuff about introverted folk is learn this stuff sooner than later otherwise at some point when you mature and are more able and more secure to want a permanent relationship youll of already gone through some of the motions. so fail now so you dont have to fail later because you will fail the first girl you date wont be the one.

 

[SpaceYeti]

I'm not going to read that wall of text. ADD, yo.

Bump uglies with her.

 

[yogurtexpress]

Stop caring so much. Even if you're 27 and you don't have much dating experience, there's no need to worry yourself sick like a 13-year-old. What's the worst that can happen? She says no and tells you to fuck off? Uh okay, then you move on to the next girl. That's life.

 

[digital angel]

Along the same lines of what yogurtexpress is stating, you should keep in mind how often relationships fall apart. Take the divorce rate as example; just keep moving forward. You don't have to look back.

 

[digital angel]

Have you read the thread titled "INTP+love=cynicism & depression?" My intent is not to keep you from dating. I just think it's important to consider the points that are in that thread.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Bump uglies with her.

Order of the stick?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

... the moment I begin to even consider the idea of getting into a relationship, my tongue is tied and my brain ceases to offer suggestions of conversation. I try asking questions about her, but I am an utter failure. My questions are most likely inadequate as multiple girls generally respond with one to two word answers.

I haven't had the chance to read through this whole thread yet, but this statement stood out to me. A few comments:

1. Small talk is annoying, trite, and to many INTPs, meaningless. But it's a skill one should develop and develop well, since it's crucial for functioning as a somewhat asocial person in a social world. It really takes practice, so practice it in lower-pressure situations. Strike up a conversation with the guy sitting next to you at the bus stop. Give a compliment to a random stranger who is hot but not your type. You'll get better at filling in gaps in a conversation as you discover more ways to engage people.

2. Asking the right questions is also something that takes practice. If your questions are evoking short responses, try asking follow-up questions. For example, say you ask a woman what her college major is/was. If she just answers the question and doesn't say anything else, this is your opportunity to dig a little deeper and get beyond small talk. What made her interested in that field of study? How does/did she like it? What are/were her professors like? Did she end up working in that field? Ask even if you're not particularly interested--it gives her an opportunity to talk about herself (which many people love to do). Eventually she'll give a response that you can use as a springboard into a more interesting conversation. And if she doesn't, then why are you interested in her in the first place?

3. You're better off saying something and looking like an idiot than saying nothing and looking timid or shy. Confidence is key--display some even if you don't feel it. If it doesn't go over well, you've gained experience that you can put to use the next time you approach a member of the opposite sex. Just bite the bullet and start talking. Set your internal stakes at a low point; if you are rejected, you gain confidence and experience, and if you are not rejected, you gain a potential relationship (or sex, or whatever it is you want out of the situation). You have nothing to lose.

Dating is a cruel, vicious game, and there is no definitive handbook to reference when you're not sure what to do next. The only way you will learn is to put yourself out there. Learn from and embrace failure and rejection, because without them you won't meet anyone at all.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Order of the stick?

Well, this idiom may have been used there, but it's been around since before OotS.

 

[kayne]

Order of the stick?

a joke i am not aware of i assume?

1. Small talk is annoying, trite, and to many INTPs, meaningless. But it's a skill one should develop and develop well, since it's crucial for functioning as a somewhat asocial person in a social world. It really takes practice, so practice it in lower-pressure situations. Strike up a conversation with the guy sitting next to you at the bus stop. Give a compliment to a random stranger who is hot but not your type. You'll get better at filling in gaps in a conversation as you discover more ways to engage people.

this is probably my biggest problem with new people girls or guys. small talk i despise it.i loathe i wish it would die a horrible death. i engage it in only as neccessary unfortunently ive realize for most of the population to progress past it i must participate in it at some level which leads to your next point...

2. Asking the right questions is also something that takes practice. If your questions are evoking short responses, try asking follow-up questions. For example, say you ask a woman what her college major is/was. If she just answers the question and doesn't say anything else, this is your opportunity to dig a little deeper and get beyond small talk. What made her interested in that field of study? How does/did she like it? What are/were her professors like? Did she end up working in that field? Ask even if you're not particularly interested--it gives her an opportunity to talk about herself (which many people love to do). Eventually she'll give a response that you can use as a springboard into a more interesting conversation. And if she doesn't, then why are you interested in her in the first place?

asking questions is a large part of small talk as well. and the questions are fairly standard especially in a college city. you work? where you from? school? major? name? favorite color or some other BS question. regarding your last point why would you be interested in her to begin with is well a few answers. one is she could be extremely hot. but more importantly she could be shy and quite like you too participating in the same mundane ritual knowing she too must participate. it could also be it is hard to tell in the first 5 minutes for most people if it is someone you want to get to know better or not so you must peel away at the layers. i do admit i have gotten fairly good at discovering in the first 2 or 3 minutes if i have an desire to speak to you ever again or rather what level relationship i wish to pursue. so multiple reasons can be given for why someone appears boring at first as to why i would want to pursue it the relationship. heck as an INTP you really have to dig at me to get me to come out of my shell and i know i am not the only introverted person in this world. ive learned two introverts making small talk can be painful unless one of them just goes into some crazy subject.

3. You're better off saying something and looking like an idiot than saying nothing and looking timid or shy. Confidence is key--display some even if you don't feel it. If it doesn't go over well, you've gained experience that you can put to use the next time you approach a member of the opposite sex. Just bite the bullet and start talking. Set your internal stakes at a low point; if you are rejected, you gain confidence and experience, and if you are not rejected, you gain a potential relationship (or sex, or whatever it is you want out of the situation). You have nothing to lose.

i agree. but you never know some like timid and shy some like idiots and some like anything in between you never know by acting like the idiot you may of just turned off someone who prefers timid and shy and whom you could build a relationship with. it is all a game of chance as you say dating is a cruel viscious game. i would agree talking some is better than nothing at all after all must engage in that ever fun small talk.

since this thread pertains to my insanity. i will say i asked her to join me with a bunch of friends going bowling well i asked her tuesday we went tonight. but she had prior engagements she could not get out of but none the less said thanks for offering and that was the end of that. i think that was some forward progress partly due to dont let your fears control you or whatever that greek quote was that i just rolled with it. even worse is cause i cant bowl anymore my right hand is incapable of doing it unless i wish for severe sharp shooting pain in my right arm for the next month. so that is progress. that said i think sunday if i see ill put an end to this charade of whatever we have created. ask her out and be done with it since i suspect ill see her next at church or we if we see each other between now and then i might but i am far more likely to catch her alone on sunday where i will feel far more comfortable with asking someone out.

 

[yogurtexpress]

The thing with small talk is that you just have to accept it and even learn to enjoy it. I used to loathe it myself. I would actually get infuriated when two people next to me were having small talk, and angry hateful thoughts would rush through my head like "WHY ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT SUCH BULLSHIT?"

That's really how people get to know each other though. Real life isn't the INTP forum where you could pop up onto the Philosophy forum and start randomly discussing your theories about Socrates. Most people would be like "Huh?" They require an INTRODUCTION. As soon as you stop over-analyzing bullshit in your head and learn to properly introduce yourself and relate how your day was ('I drank coffee'), you'll be much less nervous, and hopefully a little happier.

Asking someone out should always start as a casual thing. You're never gonna get anywhere if you keep envisioning all the possibilities ('What do I do next?' 'Can I really impress her?') because before you even get to those events you actually have to take the first step in initiating them.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

The thing with small talk is that you just have to accept it and even learn to enjoy it. I used to loathe it myself. I would actually get infuriated when two people next to me were having small talk, and angry hateful thoughts would rush through my head like "WHY ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT SUCH BULLSHIT?"

That's really how people get to know each other though.

This is how I feel when I hear other guys talking about fantasy football. I was ecstatic when the winter olympics turned their discussions to curling instead.

That's why I try to steer small talk to more interesting topics. I don't ask about other people, politics, the weather, etc. I ask about the person I'm talking to. What do they do for a living? What got them interested in that? What are their hobbies? And so on. In a way, I'm manipulating the conversation to put others on a more introspective level closer to my own preferred way of functioning. Eventually the conversation will come around to something we can really dig into and to which I can apply my Ti and Ne.

Am I really interested in all the little details about this person's life? No, but they don't know that. It helps put them at ease to think that I am interested, and if they feel more comfortable around me then I feel more comfortable around them. I guess that's just my Fe coming out.

Long story short, if you can't take interest, fake interest. You might feel insincere at first, but you build up a tolerance to that as your conversation skills develop. Then small talk becomes a tool to evaluate and subtly influence others. Since you're just using one of your many social tools, you won't feel so disingenuous.

 

[kayne]

Real life isn't the INTP forum where you could pop up onto the Philosophy forum and start randomly discussing your theories about Socrates.

damnit it all why not life would be much better lol

As soon as you stop over-analyzing bullshit in your head and learn to properly introduce yourself and relate how your day was ('I drank coffee'), you'll be much less nervous, and hopefully a little happier.

unfortunently this is in my nature. i always thought i was weird for it until i discovered this forum now i see i am not alone. i do attempt to minimize or at least steer the thinking into something else though i have not yet gotten the hang of it. though i think this time i have gotten better about it than past attempts simply because i reasoned well your old thought habits are clearly becoming a problem so i made a bit of a effort to change them even though i know i will never entirely stop over anaylzing crap even sometimes the most stupid of crap too.

Long story short, if you can't take interest, fake interest.

i agree with this. i try too but sometimes i simply cannot or i reach a quota on the amount of people i cant fake interest with at any given time once the quota is filled im done.

That's why I try to steer small talk to more interesting topics. I don't ask about other people, politics, the weather, etc. I ask about the person I'm talking to. What do they do for a living? What got them interested in that? What are their hobbies? And so on. In a way, I'm manipulating the conversation to put others on a more introspective level closer to my own preferred way of functioning. Eventually the conversation will come around to something we can really dig into and to which I can apply my Ti and Ne.

yea this is what most concerns me around new people. small talk i dont always know what to say. i dont just think of new things to say well i do but again random fact politics games computers philosophy and even deep discussions on religion arent exactly small talk topics. but i can talk on that stuff endlessly. honestly i do what you do overtime those that get close to me i tend to make them think like me and act how i prefer people to function i think i can largely due to this to ridiculous level of adherence to logic and reason and well anaylzing every well at least most points of view on the given topic enough so to generally be persuasive.

this does remind me my best friend he is very extroverted and never thinks ahead ever. he can put up a convincing arguement due to he is such a people person and relies on his people skills greatly. he will try and argue with me but fails everytime since he just flat out cannot apply logic beyond one situation aka wont string together different things to see how they fit together. he wont look at all the pieces of the puzzle. its quite funny hell try for like an hour to beat me an arguement and fail miserably constantly due to he wont think ahead or stop relying on his people skills which are tremendous and very convincing to damn near anyone he talks too. its quite funny the two of us can be quite the compelling pair since if his people skills ever fail combine with my INTP like anaylzing logic as backup its highly persuasive i forget what type he would fall under but mixed with an INTP brain it is a deadly combo of ultimate persuasion and logic.

that said this is really my biggest concern on the matter. though at the very least since well we are finnally going on a date this week yay. fumbling through small talk though thats about all ive done at this point so perhaps it wont matter too much. or perhaps well open up a little bit more since i think this lets go out on a date has been sitting in the air unspoken for like a month now or 2 months i have no idea how long all i know is that portion of my over anaylzing brain wont be devoted to that anymore. or maybe ill get extremely lucky and we'll skip small talk because i am fairly certain she shares an introverted trait since at times she is quite and other times a bit more talkative so perhaps she shares the same dislike of small talk. but sadly i have no clue unless i actually go through some level of small talk.

oh well perhaps this time i wont be a complete social klutz at the end of the date assuming it goes well.

 

[VroumVroum]

INTP have the great ability to summarize. Please use it

You’re extremely hard with yourself. Give yourself a break. Nobody is perfect.

Maybe she felt bad you couldn’t enjoy the party. Maybe she don’t care that you’re not a people person. Maybe she wants to be your friend. Maybe she likes you...

Surely she doesn’t judge you the way you do. As far as we know, from her point of view, you might be a nice or even a great guy.

Only she knows.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Only she knows.

So why don't you ask?

 

[EditorOne]

^ Yes. At least the second time this advice has been offered. We get so bogged down in thinking our way through things we can forget the answer we seek is only as far away as the question we should ask.

 

[grey matters]

Ok folks, I've posted this video before on this forum but for those who haven't seen it yet, here goes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya_D9IwB3-s

 

[kayne]

well a random 3 month update. we went out finnally around the end of october.

but a combination of school(last of month of semester madness i sincerely hate teachers who pile up every assignment for the last month). we didnt go out again despite wanting too. then xmas break nonsense.

finnally we just went out again. i guess somewhere in all this i got friendzoned. i have no clue exactly how or why. or perhaps this was just casual dating. i have no clue. or perhaps i am such a social klutz i butchered it. or perhaps somehow i sounded more serious than i intended too? i truely have no clue.

i wish i had some semblance of social skills. tis would be nice. ive been away from home for a year and a half. ive barely maanged to make one friend. she was the second friend ive kind of made and im not sure whether ive burned that bridge or not since well i thought we both liked each other. so naturally i figured id see if she wanted to you know kind of start of a relationship it seemed proper. weve appeared to like each other for a while now. but i got the old "im not interested in dating but i value our friendship....".

i proceeded to 10 minutes after i thought about it to text her because why the hell not and explain quite clearly im a social klutz and ask if thats what she met? or was i wrong in thinking we liked each other? was i confusing casual dating and sounded too serious? or something else. i tried to make it clear this was a no strings attached question and i wasnt going to go psycho stalker obbessive over the issue and just wanted to know for future reference. as expected no answer. figures.

so perhaps months of effort have just backfired miserably. perhaps i should try introducing myself as "I am a social klutz. I have no clue if we'll be friends or not or date(if a female). but i'd love to find out but be prepared for random awkward silence"

and well on this date we ran into someone we both know. naturally ill get asked hey how did that date go so of course i wont hear the end of it ill have to deal with it when i run into this person again. ARGH

i swear. i can get people to be like yea totally lets hang out. or theyll remeber something crazy i said months ago that ive long forgotten about. but actually wanting to hang out and follow through with it well forget it. i really dont get it.

sadly i have such a low social gauge that needs to be filled i cant even fill it.

also LOL at that video.

well theres my update and my somewhat pathetic conclusion.

 

[pjoa09]

@kayne nice guy too much?

 

[kayne]

@kayne nice guy too much?

probably yes. if it makes you feel better i used to a very big d-bag. a very miserable rotten sack of crap. you suggest i return to that???

though said girl finnally replied. we smoothed it out i think so i think perhaps well be able to remain friends and something of the sorts may come of that referring to being better friends i would hope??? in a non sexual way being the current goal in mind. it seemed like we both agreed on that. she seemed rather honest in answering me so i appreciate that so i dont think there was any lieing going on there. so hopefully maybe ill have done the crazy task of suckering someone in hanging out with me yay.

hopefully with the dating pressure gone. ill be a little less quite and shy too since ive known her for a little while now so i am a bit comfortable around this person.

 

[Particle]

He said you might be too much of a nice guy. The take-away here is not that you should take this as a cue to go to the polar opposite extreme but rather try to exist somewhere closer to the middle.

 

[Jennywocky]

weve appeared to like each other for a while now. but i got the old "im not interested in dating but i value our friendship....".

yeah, at best all you can take that as is what she said. I wouldn't read too much into an indictment of yourself, as you seem prone to do; you seem to be using it to reaffirm your self-portrait as a total social klutz, where it could simply be that she is not someone who finds you attractive in the way you hope but otherwise thinks you are a great person... and it doesn't mean there are not others out there who might be interested in you.

The problem with overthinking is that you tend to see rejection as a criticism of you and then you feel down about yourself, rather than viewing her response as simply you two being incompatible. There are many other women in the world, and you will likely have to meet quite a number of them before you find someone who matches up with you enough to want to date. Meanwhile, focusing too much on this as rejection will leave you anxious and self-absorbed, making it harder for other women to be interested. It's one of those situations where you have to learn to "play it cool and casual" no matter what, I guarantee it will help; at the moment, you might be coming across as needy, and that's something that turns both men and women off in terms of dating material.

IOW, you're making it even harder for yourself to successfully find a partner by getting down on yourself.

i proceeded to 10 minutes after i thought about it to text her because why the hell not and explain quite clearly im a social klutz and ask if thats what she met? or was i wrong in thinking we liked each other? was i confusing casual dating and sounded too serious? or something else. i tried to make it clear this was a no strings attached question and i wasnt going to go psycho stalker obbessive over the issue and just wanted to know for future reference. as expected no answer. figures.

Well, you did kind of stick her in a no-winner. Look at it from her perspective: She tried to let you down easy, and instead of accepting her answer, you basically dragged the question back out again -- and put yourself down in the process, which is the last thing she likely wants. If she doesn't answer, you'll be down on yourself and maybe even mad at her; but if she does answer, you'll be down on yourself (because she needs to crush you again definitively) and possibly arguing with her about how she might have led you on (since you are stating that you thought she liked you), etc. I mean, she is totally stuck.

So if I were her, I would not respond to you either because it's the best of all the bad alternatives -- hopefully you'll muddle through it and figure it out, and meanwhile she is not adding any fuel to the fire, and you won't continually try to engage her on it. I think you need to drop it, though, if you wish to preserve a friendship; or she might start avoiding you.

and well on this date we ran into someone we both know. naturally ill get asked hey how did that date go so of course i wont hear the end of it ill have to deal with it when i run into this person again. ARGH

Who cares what they ask? You sound very worried about what others think of you; if they view you negatively, then you seem to view yourself negatively. That's not a great reason to officially date someone. Really, this other person? It's not a big deal to them, they're just asking what's up and how things went; most people, if you say, "didn't work out," they won't think, "what a loser," they'll say, "Aw, gee, that's too bad, I'm sorry," and feel bad for you.

my somewhat pathetic conclusion.

I think your life will become much happier and enjoyable when you stop beating yourself up. No one is looking down on you -- dating is hard stuff -- and so you can go easier on yourself. It's okay to have to work at it and to need to try a number of times before successfully finding someone for the long haul.

EditorOne's initial comments in this thread were also quite excellent and wise.

 

[Pride]

1. Find female

2. Bait & trap

3. ???

4. Profit

 

[Paintzee]

Never dated, used my intuition and other skills to select my mate. Been married over 30 years, must have worked. Was pursued by many women prior to marriage, only took one seriously, my wife.