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should I go back to school?

QuickTwist

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#1
Yes, no or maybe.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#2
I dunno man... I feel like if I was more resourceful I would have bailed from uni years ago and found something else. But I had no ideas of what to do, I crumbled and got stuck in a loop of study study study. It should one day? one day? maybe lead to something worthwhile.

My advice is to think about options. I find most studies that one can study at a place of study to hardly be worth studying. Perhaps you are otherwise inclined and enjoy the style of schooling in growth towards achievement of your purposes and such.

Do you have a long-term plan here?
 
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#3
Well do or not but dont be impulsive like me. I already payed recrutation fee for...philosophy in Wroclaw. Next day I couldnt understand WHY I did that. :ahh: I just hope now that they dont open this course and send money back.
What do you want to study?
 
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#4
Is it possible to take a few courses/ classes and see how you like it/ how it goes?

If I ever get well enough to do anything, I don't think I'd be happy doing something that didn't require any type of school, for me it would be "necessary".
 

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#5
I plan on taking a single class and feeling it out first.
 

Serac

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#6
If there is any doubt, then the answer is clearly no.

Every Millennial nowadays has the option to go back to school, to be like the Wandering Jew – just walk the university campus until a heavenly purpose will descend on them.

In general, if you have a real passion for a specific subject and you know that you want to engage in a life-long project of immersing yourself in that subject, then great – go to academia. But if the idea is that education is a precursor to work, then studying is a huge cost: it's not just the money you spend studying, it's also all the money you don't earn while you are not working. That's another thing Millennials don't understand.
 
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#7
hey i decided to cancel my heavenly purpose and stay here to finish for once my degree, hopefully that'll be in september then i can try to get a job and maybe attempt to sign in for some course on something specific, the i dunno will always be there.
but at least i'm not escaping anymore i guess.
 

Serac

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hey i decided to cancel my heavenly purpose and stay here to finish for once my degree, hopefully that'll be in september then i can try to get a job and maybe attempt to sign in for some course on something specific, the i dunno will always be there.
but at least i'm not escaping anymore i guess.
That's good, man. If you have a degree to finish that's clearly the best option.
 

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#9
If there is any doubt, then the answer is clearly no.

Every Millennial nowadays has the option to go back to school, to be like the Wandering Jew – just walk the university campus until a heavenly purpose will descend on them.

In general, if you have a real passion for a specific subject and you know that you want to engage in a life-long project of immersing yourself in that subject, then great – go to academia. But if the idea is that education is a precursor to work, then studying is a huge cost: it's not just the money you spend studying, it's also all the money you don't earn while you are not working. That's another thing Millennials don't understand.
Just a follow up here, but you don't think that going to school will give me opportunities I would normally not have?
 

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#11
No. Waste of time and money unless you are going for something that *requires* the stamp of approval, like a doctor or lawyer.
 

Serac

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#12
Just a follow up here, but you don't think that going to school will give me opportunities I would normally not have?
If you know exactly what you want to do, and you know for sure that it would require a specific degree, then of course. But since you ask, then I assume that's not the case, and you believe that just doing random stuff will give you more opportunities. In theory it will, but you gotta consider the cost of studying: it's time you spend not earning anything, time spent not acquiring valuable experience, money you spend on studies, money you don't earn and could have earned if you worked. If the opportunities you get after studies justify that, then go for it. But you can imagine how this calculation ends up looking for a typical millennial doing liberal art degrees – they just flush huge amounts of time and money down the toilet and then end up working at Burger King.
 

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#13
If you know exactly what you want to do, and you know for sure that it would require a specific degree, then of course. But since you ask, then I assume that's not the case, and you believe that just doing random stuff will give you more opportunities. In theory it will, but you gotta consider the cost of studying: it's time you spend not earning anything, time spent not acquiring valuable experience, money you spend on studies, money you don't earn and could have earned if you worked. If the opportunities you get after studies justify that, then go for it. But you can imagine how this calculation ends up looking for a typical millennial doing liberal art degrees – they just flush huge amounts of time and money down the toilet and then end up working at Burger King.
I have a couple ideas for possible careers I would be interested in. They all require a degree to get into. Psychology would be one degree, the hard sciences would be another. There is also the opportunity of getting into a trade for the school I would be attending.

I understand what you are saying, but I think you are limiting what education brings to the table in terms of experiences.

When you talk about "other jobs" that don't require a degree, I immediately think of the jobs I have done in the past where I either quit or got fired from after a short length of time because I could not take the boredom of such jobs. I am also not much of an entrepreneur, so doing something like starting my own company is pretty much out of the question.
 

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#14

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TBH, I am lost on what jobs are worthwhile without a degree. :confused:
 

Hadoblado

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#16
Maybe.

It's a huge commitment, like Serac said. Bigger than you might intuitively assume. The people that benefit the most from it are the people that can commit the hardest.

- Out of my close friends that have done uni, one has been successful in landing a good job out of it. They did business, finished top of their class, and got a job at the same university earning six figures straight away.
- One finished with high marks, works full time for a political party in policy. I'm not sure how much he earns, but he sounds completely dead inside. Arguably a success?
- Three spent multiple years at uni (3-5) and then did not finish their degree before moving into the workforce doing something completely unrelated.
- One finished their degree (geology) and went into admin which is also arguably a success.
- One threw their hands up in the air with medicine, switched to fine arts, and now is knowingly burying their financial career.
- One got straight HDs for their first five semesters (sociology), then quit and became a laborer when their welfare fell apart.
- I am on course to finish my undergrad this year, then will likely do honours and probably end up doing research in neuroscience. My financial assistance has just run dry which is stressful as fuck so my future is a little less certain than I'd hoped. I'm not sure how much I'll enjoy the actual work, so not sure whether that counts as a success.

All of these people are capable individuals (IQ 115-155). In this sample, drive and direction was far more predictive of success than raw ability.

Depression and anxiety levels are also extremely high in academia (off the top of my head I think 30%, but I could be very wrong). You're being forced to do arbitrary and time consuming tasks with no immediate or even guaranteed payoff under ego-threat from repeated assessments while going into debt for an extended period of time. The environment is also competitive, and if you're not going in straight from school you run the risk of social alienation.

If I'm to be straight up with you, I don't think you're committed enough to make this work out to be a good decision. Maybe try out a unit first, and if you can ace it, then consider whether you can handle a full coarse load.
 
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#17
Unless you NEED a degree (i.e. For a profession with a protected title), then the short answer is no.

They're near worthless after about 2 years or so anyway. I've got 3 of them, and all they do is fill up my business card and email signature (apart from the one that I needed for my profession).
 
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#18
What jobs do you guys have that don't require a degree (those of you who don't)? I can't think of any I'd enjoy that don't require any type of education. I've had a few various jobs, and even though I did well and got paid an ok amount, it was pretty shit.

But yeah, if I went into something today, I'd pick something with high probability of landing me a job when finished, and obviously it's more of a shaky route if you're running out of funds.
 

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#19
If I'm to be straight up with you, I don't think you're committed enough to make this work out to be a good decision. Maybe try out a unit first, and if you can ace it, then consider whether you can handle a full coarse load.
This is exactly why I was debating it myself. IDK if anyone remembers this or not, but I was going to school at one point. I was going to a 'for profit' school called ITT technical institute. I was getting pretty much straight A's. I quit going there because I found out about the "opportunities" graduates were getting - jobs paying about $11/hour. I got out of the school a few years before the school diminished.

But that's the thing... while I was going, I was doing really really well. I do really good with structure. But I still have reservations because while I was going to ITT tech, the material was interesting. If I go to a community college, there is no guarantee on whether I will like the material or not, which is a huge motivator or demotivator for me. I also know that I really like learning in a school environment, so that's another thing to consider.
 

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#20
What jobs do you guys have that don't require a degree (those of you who don't)? I can't think of any I'd enjoy that don't require any type of education. I've had a few various jobs, and even though I did well and got paid an ok amount, it was pretty shit.

But yeah, if I went into something today, I'd pick something with high probability of landing me a job when finished, and obviously it's more of a shaky route if you're running out of funds.
Yes, was wondering the same.
 

Hadoblado

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Hmmm okay. Well you've got a one up on me. I find it insanely difficult to apply myself - even if it's something I'm interested in. University was what was left for me by process of elimination.

How well do you do when you're not interested? Because you'll want to check what units you'll need to complete long term if you struggle with boring units. In psychology in Aus, first year units give broad overview so everything feels easy. Then second year the attrition begins when you need to do stat courses and comparatively hard neuroscience. For me this stuff is interesting, but a lot of people don't like it and they really struggle. Probably the most difficulty I've had is with my third year 'filler' units that are more applied like organisational psych.

I would put as much effort as you can into figuring out how well you need to do in your degree to get the job you want as well. For honours in psych I need a distinction average, and I know a few people who didn't manage to get it - effectively wasting three years. The degree isn't worth much without honours.

Finally (sorry for going on...), you should probably evaluate your mental health. IIRC you were depressed by not anxious? "Lucky". Depression can still be a major obstacle on its own. There are points in the semester at which, if you have a depressive episode, you are going to find it extremely difficult to meet expectations. Unfortunately the stress of these time periods can serve as antecedent to a depressive episode in themselves. I don't know how this plays out without anxiety - probably a bit better but still difficult. If you have a shrink still, it might be worth talking to them about whether you're ready. That's what I did.

Best of luck.
 

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#22
Yes, was wondering the same.
Entrepreneurship, sales/marketing, skilled trades, IT, art/design, writing, there are plenty. Most jobs that require degrees are corporate hell jobs anyways. If I was serious about being a scientist perhaps I would get a degree and work as a researcher, that would be fun.

As a side note, it's interesting how far we gave on in regards to education that getting "educated" is no longer about actually being educated but getting trained.
 

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#24
Entrepreneurship, sales/marketing, skilled trades, IT, art/design, writing, there are plenty. Most jobs that require degrees are corporate hell jobs anyways. If I was serious about being a scientist perhaps I would get a degree and work as a researcher, that would be fun.

As a side note, it's interesting how far we gave on in regards to education that getting "educated" is no longer about actually being educated but getting trained.
Yeah. OK.

I already said Entrepreneurship was out of the questing. I have some ideas for inventions and such, but the business aspect of it I am basically a retard. Sales and marketing are not at all anything I would be interested in since I would have to deal with people a lot and I am a very strong introvert. Skilled trades are an option, but you need to be trained how to do those jobs since everything is standardized. IT is another option worth considering, I guess. The problem with that tho, is I know next to nothing about programming currently. Art/Design would be something I would be interested in, but art doesn't pay the bills really, IDK what you mean with design. I am horrible at English so I don't think any kind of writing career would be an option.
 

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#25
Hmmm okay. Well you've got a one up on me. I find it insanely difficult to apply myself - even if it's something I'm interested in. University was what was left for me by process of elimination.

How well do you do when you're not interested? Because you'll want to check what units you'll need to complete long term if you struggle with boring units. In psychology in Aus, first year units give broad overview so everything feels easy. Then second year the attrition begins when you need to do stat courses and comparatively hard neuroscience. For me this stuff is interesting, but a lot of people don't like it and they really struggle. Probably the most difficulty I've had is with my third year 'filler' units that are more applied like organisational psych.

I would put as much effort as you can into figuring out how well you need to do in your degree to get the job you want as well. For honours in psych I need a distinction average, and I know a few people who didn't manage to get it - effectively wasting three years. The degree isn't worth much without honours.

Finally (sorry for going on...), you should probably evaluate your mental health. IIRC you were depressed by not anxious? "Lucky". Depression can still be a major obstacle on its own. There are points in the semester at which, if you have a depressive episode, you are going to find it extremely difficult to meet expectations. Unfortunately the stress of these time periods can serve as antecedent to a depressive episode in themselves. I don't know how this plays out without anxiety - probably a bit better but still difficult. If you have a shrink still, it might be worth talking to them about whether you're ready. That's what I did.

Best of luck.
I don't do well when I am not interested. Most of this stems from me being bored with whatever it is tho. I feel like college might be challenging enough for me to find most things somewhat interesting, however.

Strangely enough, when I was talking to my therapist one time, he emphasised that his degree didn't say anything about how well he did in School, only that he did enough to complete the degree. We were talking about perfectionism at the time so that could have been a factor. I think one of the things to consider is what you do AFTER you complete your degree. If you apply yourself well, you have a better chance of landing a job you want.

Depression is a tricky thing, yeah. The thing about it for me tho is that most of the times when I have severe lows where I am pretty much incapacitated to do anything productive is when I am already not doing anything productive. When I have structure in my life I do much much better at combatting my depression - its like it is just a minor factor. That said, the last visit I had with my therapist, he told me that an important element to success is how well you bounce back from setbacks. This was really hard to hear because I know I recover from setbacks very very slowly/poorly. Definitely worth talking to my therapist more about.
 

QuickTwist

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#27
If you go just realize math is fucking hard in college
So I have heard. That kind of challenge pushes me tho. Or I don't know what I am talking about, either way.
 
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#28
my psycologist said titles are important for when u meet new people
example, if i go out with a friend, and he introduces me his Friends, and they have Jobs and cool degrees and i'm not working and still finishing mine, i will get unconfortable and insecure and i will want to go back home.
i agree to a certain degree
perhaps at first contact it is like that.
then when they let you show yourself more those who are cool enough will see the cool things in you, but no matter how cool you are, it is a fact that they will still think you are inferior.

next day you find a job and everything is balanced again. but just next day.

a girl leaves you and goes to another guy, the other guy is taller, more muscled, has an stable job, a degree. how can you think she's doing the wrong thing? u can hate her, but u cannot blame her.
u have to deal with yourself. you need to accept you failed, you need to forget and keep pushing at your own pace and try not to look at what others are doing.
everyone has at least the option to show something on themselves that's nice and impressive and not common.
next person might see something else in you, and maybe by that time you won't feel so inferior anymore.

should you back to school? depends. do you want to stay in your place forever? you want to work and earn a lot of money? you wanna have Friends? find an stable girlfriend? if you want then you should.
if you wanna runaway from pain, you can stay at home. and suffer in silence at times.
and try to remember who you wanted to be. or try to become what everyone wanted you to be. but the only real thing will be pain.
 

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#29
Unless you have experience in your degree field (or get a good internship before you graduate) and you like studying really hard and sucking up to professors to get As, getting a job will most likely be difficult. For example, a lot of the tech/engineering jobs that are advertised want people to fill experienced positions, not entry-level; and the one's that are entry-level have a lot of competition (hence the grades and internship or experience).

But good luck, either way.
 

Serac

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#30
Unless you have experience in your degree field (or get a good internship before you graduate) and you like studying really hard and sucking up to professors to get As, getting a job will most likely be difficult. For example, a lot of the tech/engineering jobs that are advertised want people to fill experienced positions, not entry-level; and the one's that are entry-level have a lot of competition (hence the grades and internship or experience).

But good luck, either way.
This is quite important advice.

Its fucking hard out there for graduates without experience. I mean, I have a math degree from a relatively fancy school. I still had to rely on network to land a job as a grad.
 
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#31
This is quite important advice.

Its fucking hard out there for graduates without experience. I mean, I have a math degree from a relatively fancy school. I still had to rely on network to land a job as a grad.
True, but it should be noted that landing a job is a skill like any other. It can be learned, and with the right approach, it isn't hard. IMO the hard part isn't landing your first graduate job, but keeping it.
 

Serac

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#32
True, but it should be noted that landing a job is a skill like any other. It can be learned, and with the right approach, it isn't hard. IMO the hard part isn't landing your first graduate job, but keeping it.
I agree it can be viewed as a skill, but if you are applying for entry level jobs posted on linkedin or whatever, especially if its in a big city, there is no level of skill in this game that will make it easy. You will be competing against thousands for each job.
 
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#33
I agree it can be viewed as a skill, but if you are applying for entry level jobs posted on linkedin or whatever, especially if its in a big city, there is no level of skill in this game that will make it easy. You will be competing against thousands for each job.
Based on my own experience, I can't agree with that. When I graduated, I moved to a new city (pop. 5m) and having perfected my application process before I arrived (through testing and refining with jobs in another city, which I didn't actually want) I received an offer for every application I made for jobs in a saturated industry.

I ultimately learned that for my situation, the correct approach was: an individually tailored cover letter, a half page resume and approx 5 samples (in my case, photos) of student work; combined with finding a position on a job website and then fishing around for the boss' email address, rather than applying on the job website.
 

Serac

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#34
@Happy
This sounds very strange to me, because there is not much special about the way you applied. What industry is this? And how many applications did you do?
 
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#35
@Happy
This sounds very strange to me, because there is not much special about the way you applied. What industry is this? And how many applications did you do?
No, you're right in saying there's nothing special about it. But its customary in my industry (Architecture) to provide a full portfolio. And I kept finding that nobody would bother looking at it. So I tossed it, then condensed my work to my favourite 5 images, a good cover letter and I kept cutting my resume until it was so short, nobody would have any excuse not to read it.

In my research stage, I applied for around 15 jobs and observed the responses. Then when it came time for my real applying, I applied for 3 jobs online, and didn't have to do any more because I got 3 interviews and then 3 offers. I probs would have been in a pool of at least hundreds.

I'm not bragging or whatevs. Its just that I figured out how to get noticed in an over saturated industry where all the employers are too busy to flip through hundreds of pages of someone's curated student garbage. and that's my point, that it's about figuring out how to get noticed.
 

Serac

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#36
No, you're right in saying there's nothing special about it. But its customary in my industry (Architecture) to provide a full portfolio. And I kept finding that nobody would bother looking at it. So I tossed it, then condensed my work to my favourite 5 images, a good cover letter and I kept cutting my resume until it was so short, nobody would have any excuse not to read it.

In my research stage, I applied for around 15 jobs and observed the responses. Then when it came time for my real applying, I applied for 3 jobs online, and didn't have to do any more because I got 3 interviews and then 3 offers. I probs would have been in a pool of at least hundreds.

I'm not bragging or whatevs. Its just that I figured out how to get noticed in an over saturated industry where all the employers are too busy to flip through hundreds of pages of someone's curated student garbage. and that's my point, that it's about figuring out how to get noticed.
yeah, getting exposure is important – regardless of profession. The cost of self-promotion is next to zero nowadays, e.g. making a website where one showcases one's skills and interesting projects. Yet very few do that and instead resort to just sending bland, standardized applications all over the place (was guilty of this myself as a grad)
 

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#37
It's kind of depressing when having knowledge, qualifications, and a drive to do a job well isn't enough; also got to be a master salesman of yourself and care about how everyone sees you, so you can beat everyone else at getting a daily grind job that pays more than minimum wage.

I mean I get it. But what the fuck...
 

Serac

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#39
It's kind of depressing when having knowledge, qualifications, and a drive to do a job well isn't enough; also got to be a master salesman of yourself and care about how everyone sees you, so you can beat everyone else at getting a daily grind job that pays more than minimum wage.

I mean I get it. But what the fuck...
At my previous work, I had the chance to look through all the applications that were sent to them for a position. When you read these applications, you really see what the problem is: it might be that all of these people are geniuses and will do an awesome job, but if you have 1000 applications, you don't have the time nor need to speculate about whether someone with a bland application is actually a superstar in disguise. Instead you just pick the one that isn't bland.
 
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#40
this is one of the main reasons i decided to "waste" my life



the existence of the internet has made this phenomenon multiple times worse

:ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh:
Wait - Why does the existence of the internet make it worse?
 
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#42
can't you just think about it carefully for a while plz i really can't be bothered to explain :(
Ah that's what I thought. I was confused originally because it read as a direct response to Reluctantly's line "I mean I get it. But what the fuck...". I wondered if it was meant to read that way. But I see it was a response to the whole post.

I get it. I get human interaction. #notabot

I think I fooled them.

...

Uh I mean nothing. Carry on, humans.

:phear:

[Wonders if hashtags are even still a thing]
 
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#43
Ah that's what I thought. I was confused originally because it read as a direct response to Reluctantly's line "I mean I get it. But what the fuck...". I wondered if it was meant to read that way. But I see it was a response to the whole post.
yeah sorry, i could have made the intended meaning clearer. i'm too busy wasting my life to attempt to explain the whole internet XD

I get it. I get human interaction. #notabot

I think I fooled them.

...

Uh I mean nothing. Carry on, humans.

:phear:

[Wonders if hashtags are even still a thing]
haha no, you seem like a totally normal human!!

this could have jeopardised our operation, report for reprogramming
 
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