Sensor Hate

[TriflinThomas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxYe4scS28k

Discuss.

 

[Architect]

That one never gets old

 

[redbaron]

LOL. So much truth in that video.

 

[Synthetix]

Giglz

 

[intpz]

That's a good one.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Sensors are not that bad...

 

[Puffy]

Has anyone who sensor hates ever thought that they might be projecting and the problem might actually be themselves?

 

[TriflinThomas]

Has anyone who sensor hates ever thought that they might be projecting and the problem might actually be themselves?

I have a good friend who's an ISTP(?) and twin friends who are both ESFP's(?). My friends who are ESFP's are good guys but hanging out with them is very tiring and there's always this disconnect between us that's unexplainable...

 

[Moocow]

I find sensor hate ironic given what the complaints usually are.

 

[TriflinThomas]

I find sensor hate ironic given what the complaints usually are.

What are the usual complaints?

 

[intpz]

Some sensors are partially okay, those you can talk to, but should avoid certain topics. Which sucks ass in itself.

Some sensors are not okay in almost everything they say and do, and they annoy the shit out of any type that's capable of being unique.

Some sensors are like the previous ones, but they try to enforce their opinions on everyone who has imagination. Those sensors is what we should hate.

 

[Synthetix]

The world would be fine without them. They're repulsive.

 

[Question Authority]

I don't mind SPs, Especially xSFPs, but I have a friend who's an ESTJ, and he's just so dense, and conventional, and annoying, and loudmouthy, and the like. But I have an ISFP friend, who is one of my best friends, and is incredibly supportive, and I have a couple ESFP friends, and an ISTP friend, who all are fine by me.

To me, I hate Js more than Ss. Js are much more incongruous to my laid back style, where Ss can be a bit too conventional and dull, but they don't clash as much with me as Js do.

 

[Architect]

Obviously people are different however I found number of characteristics that most sensors have to be particularly obnoxious

• Stubborn insistence. Many sensors can be bullheaded and stubborn about their ideas, and are slow to change and learn. I believe this comes from an overly strong adherence to the past (Si).
  
• Bullheaded indifference. Many sensors are incapable of getting subtle hints that we intuitive's are broadcasting. My wife and I, both intuitive's, will broadcast at least what we think are obvious signals, and while some sensor friends of ours will pick up on those many will be completely oblivious.
  
• Obvious noxious behaviors. Some sensors engage in behaviors that are obviously noxious, except to them! Such as talking incessantly about their children, or talking excessively about themselves. Appearing bored or disinterested isn't even enough to give them a clue; they'll just plow on.
  
• Inability to say anything interesting. Notice I didn't say “inability to say anything funny”. This is all that sensors want for social interaction; to surround and entertain each other. Now I love humor, crude, in-your-face humor will give me a belly laugh and my humor tends towards the sharp, witty, acerbic and biting variety which my wife loves. But sensors? Most of them refuse to talk about anything other than light small talk that makes them laugh. They just want to be entertained, one big sit-com. Whenever I bring up anything else to talk about I'm being too “serious”. I feel like they just want me to be a clown.
  
• Food. Socialization always has to occur around food. Why the fark is that? Why do I have to be stuffing myself with junk food to spend time with you? And why is it a crime to decline food? Sensors can't stand people being different especially when it comes to food, see next bullet point.
  
• Differentiation. All sensors are fundamentally suspicious of people who are different. Even when it seems like they aren't they still deal with you being different by making a point of the fact. When I went into those individuals are all different and unusual in different ways. Nobody says anything about it, except for perhaps to laugh and enjoy the uniqueness. Sensors either make a huge deal of it–much too big of a deal–or it frightens them to the point where they'll actually say something like “why do you have to be different?”

This is a short list of my grievances against sensors. They are largely responsible for the large organizations on this planet which attempt mind control. I mean this seriously, this includes religious organizations, political organizations and other ideological groups. Ideology is the most insidious sensor trait. They use belief systems to control other people.

Despite this, my entire family are Sensors and my present best friend is one too. Can't avoid the fuckers.

 

[mu is mu]

I don't so much hate Sensors as I dislike that most of them tend to constantly impose their concrete conversational preferences on us while they rarely seem to be interested in abiding by our often abstract conversational preferences. I understand that they're Sensors and they have a need to converse of such things as anecdotes, information about their kids, recipes, video games, sports, work schedules, upcoming social events, gossip, and all sorts of other things that I'm not inclined to even think of, much less independently talk about. And I'm willing to be fair and meet them on their preferred level of conversation. But I notice that when I speak my more abstract thoughts, insights, or observations, they often respond with few words or complete silence, or they'll change the subject entirely, or they'll focus on one concrete aspect included in a mostly abstract thought and proceed to direct the course of the conversation along that concrete tangent.

This isn't a problem that I'm bitter or angry about, but I don't think there's anything wrong with an iNtuitive pointing out that it exists in the first place. But on the brighter side, these rather one-sided communication tendencies with Sensors cause my encounters with other iNtuitives to be very interesting.

 

[BigApplePi]

Sensor Hate: gd & bad

I don't so much hate Sensors as I dislike that most of them tend to constantly impose their concrete conversational preferences on us while they rarely seem to be interested in abiding by our often abstract conversational preferences. I understand that they're Sensors and they have a need to converse of such things as anecdotes, information about their kids, recipes, video games, sports, work schedules, upcoming social events, gossip, and all sorts of other things that I'm not inclined to even think of, much less independently talk about. And I'm willing to be fair and meet them on their preferred level of conversation. But I notice that when I speak my more abstract thoughts, insights, or observations, they often respond with few words or complete silence, or they'll change the subject entirely, or they'll focus on one concrete aspect included in a mostly abstract thought and proceed to direct the course of the conversation along that concrete tangent.

This isn't a problem that I'm bitter or angry about, but I don't think there's anything wrong with an iNtuitive pointing out that it exists in the first place. But on the brighter side, these rather one-sided communication tendencies with Sensors cause my encounters with other iNtuitives to be very interesting.

What's good 'n bad

Sensors are necessary for grounding input; intuitives would float in the air.

Sensors lack vision beyond their senses; intuitives can see over their heads.

 

[Dapper Dan]

Wow. What the hell. People are actually agreeing with the video. Do you guys not see the hypocrisy there? The "sensor" in the video is being reasonable while the "intuitive" just spouts judgmental bullshit.

Also, in case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, we are all sensors. Just as we are all intuitives. Making blanket statements about large groups of people that you probably don't even understand is the pinnacle of Si gone wrong. In this case, it's also incredibly ironic.

 

[Milo]

@Dapper Dan

Haha. You're right on.

Plus I just discovered that I am actually an ISTP and many of those stereotypes don't apply to me at all.

 

[mu is mu]

Wow. What the hell. People are actually agreeing with the video. Do you guys not see the hypocrisy there? The "sensor" in the video is being reasonable while the "intuitive" just spouts judgmental bullshit.

Also, in case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, we are all sensors. Just as we are all intuitives. Making blanket statements about large groups of people that you probably don't even understand is the pinnacle of Si gone wrong. In this case, it's also incredibly ironic.

Your assertion that all of us are Sensors and iNtuitives is wrong. If you want to say that all of us have a Sensor and iNtuitive side, good, but people tend to prefer one side over the other--hence we call some people "Sensors" while we call others "iNtuitives." There's too much empirical data that contradicts your claim for it to be valid. And why do you claim that all of us are Sensors and iNtuitives while you are currently registered on a forum designed mostly for people who consider themselves to be iNtuitives, not iNtuitives and Sensors simultaneously? I mean no offense, I just don't understand your point.

I found the video rather silly myself and didn't perceive it as something to be taken seriously. And frankly I think it would be just as easy, if not easier, to poke fun at iNtuitives.

 

[nanook]

@Dapper Dan
well its quite ironic to blame sensor hate on Si! implying a generally false understanding of functions, which is itself more likely the general cause of sensor hate. i mean we hate theses people (the ones we hate) for 1000 reasons, some of which are good, but we think of these people, whom we know from experience, as being sensors or as being representative for limits of sensation because of generally bad typological understanding.

i sort of hated that video, mostly because of the bad typology behind it.
and the totally retarded fascism.
from another perspective it could probably funny.
just as a parody of how two real individuals could actually behave.
it's not unrealistic as such.

but it lacks a sex scene

(ps: i don't like how mu is mu argues (questioning about why you post here seems over the top), just saying, so it doesn't feel like i was chiming in)

 

[redbaron]

Wow. What the hell. People are actually agreeing with the video. Do you guys not see the hypocrisy there? The "sensor" in the video is being reasonable while the "intuitive" just spouts judgmental bullshit.

I was actually agreeing with the entirety of the video, the way both people were. The Sensor was plain stupid and the iNtuitive was plain arrogant e.g. "Don't these sunglasses look pretty!" and, "Don't fucking touch me, I don't want to catch the Sensoritis."

I took the video as parody, as an exaggeration of the feelings felt by S and N types.

 

[mu is mu]

@Dapper Dan(ps: i don't like how mu is mu argues (questioning about why you post here seems over the top), just saying, so it doesn't feel like i was chiming in)

Over the top? As I pointed out,

I mean no offense, I just don't understand your point.

it wasn't intended to be an insult, but stemmed from curiosity. The fact that he posted that claim on an INTP forum currently doesn't make sense to me (maybe it will after he responds), so I'm just curious to understand why he said it.

 

[shortbuss]

I used to almost despise my friend for not being able to advance or add to my curiosities in conversations, and I found her dull and stubborn. I have since adapted to her style of communication, and made some conscious adjustments.

I found asking her to give me her own opinions, or to tell me her thoughts on certain things was beyond useless. Instead, I've kind of learned to speak my ideas at her without asking for her input at all. This works better because my unconventional thoughts often strike her as humorous, and this achieves the goal of making her social experience enjoyable, while allowing me to throw around my thoughts without waiting on input that may never arrive.

I've learned to live in the moment because I've found that is the place her consciousness lies. To connect with her I try to make observations about the moment, or reference past moments to discuss. Keeping discussion concrete helps keep our chat flowing.

To save my sanity I allow myself to indulge in my curiosities without worrying myself over whether she will have any input or not. I don't mind boring her sometimes if something strikes my interest, and I just sort of think allowed in those instances. I also express unconventional truths without care unless to be sensitive or tactful. If she doesn't like or understand me, then I'll just have that much more fun trying to explain my rationale. Every time a disagreement arises I always appear in the right only because I am better at rationalizing my thoughts.

Anyway, I used to hate my sensor friend. I used my thinking to cope with and better communicate with my friend and so I have made things easier for both of us. I only wish my friend could adapt to my needs the way I have to hers. Oh well...

 

[sammael]

Your assertion that all of us are Sensors and iNtuitives is wrong. If you want to say that all of us have a Sensor and iNtuitive side, good, but people tend to prefer one side over the other--hence we call some people "Sensors" while we call others "iNtuitives." There's too much empirical data that contradicts your claim for it to be valid. And why do you claim that all of us are Sensors and iNtuitives while you are currently registered on a forum designed mostly for people who consider themselves to be iNtuitives, not iNtuitives and Sensors simultaneously? I mean no offense, I just don't understand your point.

Semantics, don't think too specifically. The point is that we all use both our iNtuition and Sensing functions extensively, I don't think there's any need to point out why it's foolish to (seriously) blanket critique others for the use of a function when actually we all use it. The manifestation of said function has innumerable possibilities, thus it can be humorous to make generalisations in jest, but it shouldn't be taken as more than that.

 

[Dapper Dan]

Semantics, don't think too specifically. The point is that we all use both our iNtuition and Sensing functions extensively, I don't think there's any need to point out why it's foolish to (seriously) blanket critique others for the use of a function when actually we all use it. The manifestation of said function has innumerable possibilities, thus it can be humorous to make generalisations in jest, but it shouldn't be taken as more than that.

Yes, exactly. The purpose of typology isn't to identify large groups of people that you don't like. It's a tool to help you understand those people.

 

[mu is mu]

Yes, exactly. The purpose of typology isn't to identify large groups of people that you don't like. It's a tool to help you understand those people.

Ok, good. So we're on the same page. Apparently I misinterpreted your meaning.

 

[BigApplePi]

I know two primary sensors over the internet. Both are intelligent, one male, one female. They are great for knowledge in their specialties and know their thing. I just have to make sure I never talk ideas. They wouldn't listen. Therefore I have to keep my distance ... especially if they press me for sensual knowledge. That could be it! Keep a certain distance.

 

[intpz]

Wow. What the hell. People are actually agreeing with the video. Do you guys not see the hypocrisy there? The "sensor" in the video is being reasonable while the "intuitive" just spouts judgmental bullshit.

Also, in case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, we are all sensors. Just as we are all intuitives. Making blanket statements about large groups of people that you probably don't even understand is the pinnacle of Si gone wrong. In this case, it's also incredibly ironic.

I really hate when people say "we are all *insert discussion's point here*." It's pointlessly obvious, it would obliterate all discussions, because when you get down to it - everything is everything. Therefore, it is utterly idiotic to say that, unless you want to end the discussion. It even seems to me more feel-ish, questions of existence and morals, rather than logic and rational thought.

@Architect, great post. You forgot to mention one huge point though, although it's partly related to your last point:

Sensors are asking for experience, and if you can't offer that, you don't know shit. You can't get your point across, you can't prove anything, you can't do anything significant. You have no experience in a conversation with a sensor - you have nothing. You can't rely on theories, analysis, observation, you have to have tried it. You haven't tried heroin? Fuck you, you don't know anything about it. You haven't tried cancer? Fuck you, you don't know shit.

 

[Architect]

@intpz says
Sensors are asking for experience, and if you can't offer that, you don't know shit. You can't get your point across, you can't prove anything, you can't do anything significant. You have no experience in a conversation with a sensor - you have nothing. You can't rely on theories, analysis, observation, you have to have tried it. You haven't tried heroin? Fuck you, you don't know anything about it. You haven't tried cancer? Fuck you, you don't know shit.

Good catch.

Related is that Sensors are more tied into the experiential than we are. My intuitive (immediate) family is happy with vacations that are spent in quiet little towns that have cultural or other related activities. We'll go for walks, poke around during the day and are happy to read or mess around on computers at night.

Sensors have to live it up - be out at the bar telling raucous stories, shopping, driving somewhere, bungee jumping, eat eat eat!

Which I have no problem with - to the contrary, I enjoy being quiet in the bustle they provide. Just don't give me a hard time because I don't want to participate.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Sensors are asking for experience, and if you can't offer that, you don't know shit. You can't get your point across, you can't prove anything, you can't do anything significant. You have no experience in a conversation with a sensor - you have nothing. You can't rely on theories, analysis, observation, you have to have tried it. You haven't tried heroin? Fuck you, you don't know anything about it. You haven't tried cancer? Fuck you, you don't know shit.

Funny, and somewhat true, I'd say moreso for the SJs who have a thing for stubbornly appealing to social authority. In my experience SPs are more open to people who may not have direct-experience but have knowledge of the situation, those who they recognize as reliable experts.

 

[Architect]

An interesting and related thread would be "Intuitive hate", and discussion about the obnoxious traits we have.

Truthfully I don't know what those are. Probably because one, I am an intuitive and so what others might see as weaknesses I see as strengths, and two, the suspicion that N's direct their energy in different - less outwardly abrasive ways. In other words, I think N's, especially introverted ones, turn their negatives more inward on themselves then other people. Many sensors derive energy from other people, so often rub others raw just to get a rise from them.

 

[DrSketchpad]

@Dapper Dan

Haha. You're right on.

Plus I just discovered that I am actually an ISTP and many of those stereotypes don't apply to me at all.

I've always thought that ISTPs were the closest you could get to N though anyways, I tested for ISTP multiple times, the INTP research I did fit me more though.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Wow. What the hell. People are actually agreeing with the video. Do you guys not see the hypocrisy there? The "sensor" in the video is being reasonable while the "intuitive" just spouts judgmental bullshit.

Yes, pretty annoying.

I know there is or has been an anti-SJ mindset around here, which is actually defensible considering the clash of NP-SJ lifestyle some people have personally experienced especially within their family, however the woman in this video was politely composed contrasted with the offensive stance the Intuitive had. His attitude was uncalled for, and considering that I'm not really sure what's the point of this video.

Not all S types are the same, this goes for N types as well, and there's no reason to dismiss them all in one sweep. To do so is about as ignorant as the supposed ignorant Sensors.

 

[Architect]

The video is obviously a satire.

 

[mu is mu]

An interesting and related thread would be "Intuitive hate", and discussion about the obnoxious traits we have.

Agreed. I'd be interested in seeing that.

Truthfully I don't know what those are.

For some reason I found it easier to critique each of the eight iNtuitive types individually rather than iNtuitives in general, and it seemed easier to detect problems that INTPs are prone to rather than the other iNtuitive types.

But after a bit of reflecting I think that these tendencies can apply to iNtuitives in general:

1.) They can sometimes incline towards rebellious/antisocial attitudes and behaviors that aren't as logical as they initially suspect. They may construe themselves as martyrs for integrity or truth or adamantly insist that the established is stupid, failing to realize that oftentimes the system they rebel against can have value and can actually benefit them and other people. Whenever you see an NT or NF persistently (stubbornly?) adhere to a fashion sense that somehow harms their social status, this could be an example of this concept in action. Or whenever I first entered college with a poor work ethic because "I don't like the idea of other people constricting me to their lesson plans, and I definitely don't like the idea of being forced to enroll in classes that have no relevance to my interests," this was an example of this concept.

2.) I've also noticed that some iNtuitives are guilty of the "Pygmalion Project" that Keirsey mentioned. You can even find some posts on this forum that reflect that tendency. This type of person speaks as though every person on the planet should find the interests of the iNtuitive as interesting as the iNtuitive himself does, and when they inevitably don't, he dismisses their interests and pursuits as petty and vain. And again, his distorted perception of reality continually reinforces the self-gratifying notion that he is some type of lone hero, martyr figure, or misunderstood genius.

3.) And of course, iNtuitives can be so introspective at times that they forget to pay attention to reality and subsequently err in small ways like missing their exits on the highway. Or they'll fail to encode the date of some upcoming social event into their long-term memory because, again, their attention while hearing this notification is mostly focused elsewhere--they may fallaciously ascribe higher value to focusing on their inward train of thought than to briefly halting the introspection in order to pay attention to the notification with the concentration it deserves. Although Sensors aren't completely immune to these tendencies, iNtuitives in general seem to me to be worse off at this unless they work to improve themselves.

And unfortunately, I speak from experience regarding the three above ills, although I've mostly fixed them in myself.

 

[TriflinThomas]

It's ridiculous that people are taking it so seriously.

 

[Puffy]

^ It's an important subject to discuss, really. You ingrain a belief sufficiently then it will translate into other areas of your life. So far as this kind of prejudice effects the way people relate to others (or even bars potential relationships) it's already become real, and hence something to take seriously.

This thread could well just be a joke (if it is, I'm sorry) but I've seen enough sensor hate here to know that some mean it even if they wouldn't admit it.

Sensor hate (and feeler hate, extravert hate, judger hate) annoys me, because by saying "I can't like sensors because I'm an intuitive" you're saying as much about them as you are yourself. You're denying them the possibility of being 'abstract' and yourself the possibility of being 'concrete', in the most general way. By attacking extraverts you deny your own social capacity, by attacking feelers your own emotions. It's just overtly isolationist/ elitist, imo, and I feel it only creates difficulties for personal development.

 

[intpz]

Related is that Sensors are more tied into the experiential than we are. My intuitive (immediate) family is happy with vacations that are spent in quiet little towns that have cultural or other related activities. We'll go for walks, poke around during the day and are happy to read or mess around on computers at night.

Let's see... If I went on vacation, I'd probably check out the technology first, then move onto the nature, both at night and during the day. I wouldn't participate in any activity per say, as you've mentioned. However, I would like to try good whiskey or wine. I wonder how it tastes. I guess many people would say that I'm boring...

Funny, and somewhat true, I'd say moreso for the SJs who have a thing for stubbornly appealing to social authority. In my experience SPs are more open to people who may not have direct-experience but have knowledge of the situation, those who they recognize as reliable experts.

They aren't too rational about it though. Even if you do have a lot of knowledge but don't act like it at first, you might be treated as such for a year, until he finally thinks "hey! he might not be so stupid after all!" This reminds me of a situation - my cousin still, after 10 years, thinks that I'm lying whenever I open my mouth. That is because he thought that I lied about something when I was 10 or so... He's told me this the other day, and he refuses to change his thinking.

3.) And of course, iNtuitives can be so introspective at times that they forget to pay attention to reality and subsequently err in small ways like missing their exits on the highway. Or they'll fail to encode the date of some upcoming social event into their long-term memory because, again, their attention while hearing this notification is mostly focused elsewhere--they may fallaciously ascribe higher value to focusing on their inward train of thought than to briefly halting the introspection in order to pay attention to the notification with the concentration it deserves. Although Sensors aren't completely immune to these tendencies, iNtuitives in general seem to me to be worse off at this unless they work to improve themselves.

Only this partially applies to me...

Sensor hate (and feeler hate, extravert hate, judger hate) annoys me, because by saying "I can't like sensors because I'm an intuitive" you're saying as much about them as you are yourself. You're denying them the possibility of being 'abstract' and yourself the possibility of being 'concrete', in the most general way. By attacking extraverts you deny your own social capacity, by attacking feelers your own emotions. It's just overtly isolationist/ elitist, imo, and I feel it only creates difficulties for personal development.

We're attacking strong types, therefore we are not denying that. If we were saying "if you are even slightly S-ish or F-ish, you're an asshole," then it would be different. Once again, at least how I understand it at the moment, you are taking the enormous picture, while we're talking in quite a small range. At least I am, and I'm sure most of us are.

 

[Hadoblado]

^ It's an important subject to discuss, really. You ingrain a belief sufficiently then it will translate into other areas of your life. So far as this kind of prejudice effects the way people relate to others (or even bars potential relationships) it's already become real, and hence something to take seriously.

This thread could well just be a joke (if it is, I'm sorry) but I've seen enough sensor hate here to know that some mean it even if they wouldn't admit it.

Sensor hate (and feeler hate, extravert hate, judger hate) annoys me, because by saying "I can't like sensors because I'm an intuitive" you're saying as much about them as you are yourself. You're denying them the possibility of being 'abstract' and yourself the possibility of being 'concrete', in the most general way. By attacking extraverts you deny your own social capacity, by attacking feelers your own emotions. It's just overtly isolationist/ elitist, imo, and I feel it only creates difficulties for personal development.

Good post.

I believe the OP clip was lampooning both sides, which is a fair troll

I think there are far too many people on this forum trying too hard to identify strongly with the INTP exemplar, and that one form in which this behaviour is expressed is in-group/out-group mentality. I do admit, I find overly sensor types annoying, but it's an understandable difference. I also find high P, T, I, E, J, and F annoying, as generally these people are a little too predictable for my liking. I've never met someone who was too extreme an N, but I'm sure it's possible (I know people who dislike me for being too N).