S/N

[Linsejko]

I find that the pairing dichotomy I least understand is the S/N letter pair.

My best explanation is that the S seems experiential, while the N seems theoretical.

Anyone else got a better interpretation?

.L

 

[Ermine]

I think it's a matter of focus. S types focus on the concrete, what's here and now, what is feasible. N types focus on the possibilities, what could happen.

In a nutshell.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I think the difference is in what the person mainly focuses on, perceptually. Everyone, of course, can take the time to use a microscope, or pay attention to the background details of the scene of a movie. But, where does one spend one's time--usually?

The N types very often spend their time focusing on the inner space, as it were. The S types very often spend their time focusing on the outer environment. By which I don't mean that there's an analogue between N and I on the one hand, and S and E on the other.

Rather, the sense of one's self in one's environment is different than the sense of one's environment. I think that the N type tends toward a focus on the former, and the S type tends toward a focus on the latter. (Does that make sense to anyone else?)

The simpler approach is to go with the standard descriptions. It's the N type who is accused of "having your head in the clouds," but is also the one at whom others marvel about one's creativity and ability to "think outside the box."

That said, there's a reason no one is surprised when, at convention of N-types, no one can figure out how to run the projector, or get the microphone to stop making weird noises. Those are the kinds of things left to the S types.

A gross over-simplification is to equate S with practical, and N with creative.

Dave

 

[Linsejko]

Rather, the sense of one's self in one's environment is different than the sense of one's environment. I think that the N type tends toward a focus on the former, and the S type tends toward a focus on the latter. (Does that make sense to anyone else?)

That makes a world of sense to me. However, I am curious what it means for INTP's to be outwardly intuitive, then?

Are there ever any INTP conventions, or anything like that?

.L

 

[Wisp]

We could have a gathering, but we're scattered over the globe...

Ironically, all of my computer knowledge, is entirely practical. I can fix 'em. Can't do all that much else but I CAN fix them. I lied, I'm pretty literate, but that's where my focus. And yes, I'm a very expressed N type...

 

[Jesin]

S types see things, but not always the connections between them.

N types see the connections between things, but sometimes overlook the actual things.

 

[Linsejko]

That sounds like an "N" type definition, actually...

The first line makes sense, the second does not. :\

.L

 

[Ermine]

S types see things, but not always the connections between them.

N types see the connections between things, but sometimes overlook the actual things.

I don't think it's overlooking the actual things as much as it is overlooking small details.

 

[Jesin]

I don't think it's overlooking the actual things as much as it is overlooking small details.

Yes, such is exactly what I meant.

 

[Wisp]

But went unspecified, as you are an N type, and thus overlooked the detail.

 

[Zero]

It pretty much looks like everyone has clarified S/N.

My mother is an Sensing type and I've found that she doesn't have any patience for theory... She's an ESTP, so we're similar in some aspects. If something is purely logical or has been applied continuously she understands it...

She once told me that sometimes she felt like she could never experience the grass enough. I thought that was very strange... I wonder if a lot of sensing types are like that... where they feel like they can't experience some reality enough.

The thing about putting an ESTP and an INTP together is that... If it's possible for my mother do something I ask about she'll probably do it.

 

[Linsejko]

If it's possible for my mother do something I ask about she'll probably do it.

You mean, like, if you ask about skydiving she'll do it? Or if you ask her to do the dishes for you she'll do it? Or make pancakes, or something?

I really don't understand what that sentence means.

She once told me that sometimes she felt like she could never experience the grass enough. I thought that was very strange... I wonder if a lot of sensing types are like that... where they feel like they can't experience some reality enough.

I was just thinking the other day about this one time that I felt exactly that; I was in nature somewhere, and I just felt like I wanted to assimilate into the plants themselves, like I couldn't properly appreciate it in the natural form I existed as.... like I was incompatible physically, and my spirit longed to really grasp the beauty of the flowers, to interact with that beauty.

A very distinct feeling, impression, that I won't ever forget feeling- that was several years ago, I don't just feel that every day.

Had an "S" moment, I guess? My "N" was over 95% professionally administered, so there's no question there, but... I dunno.

What was I talking about?

.L

 

[Ermine]

Just because you usually lean towards the N traits doesn't mean the S tendencies aren't possible.

For example, with art, I've developed a lot of S traits, especially working with and making do with the materials I have access to, putting my plans into action, and capturing minute details. I'm still strongly N though.

 

[Jesin]

I've occasionally had experiences very much like the one L described. 'Twas ama-zing.

It's not like we're exclusively TiNe; we also have Si, and even some Fe (no, not iron, extraverted feeling).

 

[Ermine]

Neon and silicon?? jk

 

[Jesin]

Neon and silicon?? jk

And... Tin?

Badum ching!

 

[Ermine]

Nope. Tin is Sb.

 

[Jesin]

No, Tin is Sn. Sb is Antimony. And I knew that already. It was a joke. Thus the "Badum ching!"

 

[Ermine]

meh, close enough.

 

[RobdoR]

If you ever get the chance to read "Please Understand Me II" by David Keirsey, your life will be forever changed. He has the most comprehensive in depth and accurate description of the types I have ever seen. He picked up where Myers Briggs leaves off and completely clarifies the personality types once and for all.

He feels that the S/N difference is the most important difference of all. All the S's are sensing and use concrete language to communicate. They focus on things in the real world. They usually don't have much time for theory as it does not seem immediately useful or practical.

He actually separates all the types into four categories: SP, SJ, NF, and NT. These he refers to as Artisans, Guardians, Idealists and Rationals respectively. Most of the book focuses on the unique traits that these groups have in common. While there are differences between the four subtypes in each group the similarities are remarkable. After reading his book I feel like I can pretty easily define all my friends and family, then once I have them in one of the four groups I can usually figure out the other two with out too much trouble. I/E is pretty easy and for the Sensing side, T/F usually doesn't pose too much of a challenge, but can be a bit more tricky. Then in the Intuitive side you have to distinguish between P and J for each group. That's not usually too hard either. If you know someone for very long, one of the first things you find out is if they are scheduling (J) or probing (P).

Keirsey's theory is also very convincing because it matches up perfectly with the four humors (sanguine, phlegmatic, choleric, and I forget the last one) as well as Plato's version of personalities.

For a long time I thought I was ISTP probably because my dad is ISTP and some the traits rubbed off like his sense of adventure and distrust of authority. According strictly to Myers Briggs it was hard to really figure out which one I was since she has the two as being very similar. But Keirsey has them in very separate groups, Artisans and Rationals even though they are just one letter off. Because it is the S/N relationship, it is the most important even though maybe not the most noticeable.

Anyways, "Please Understand Me II": Great book I may just buy hundreds of copies and drop them from a hot air balloon onto the masses.

 

[Ermine]

Of course you don't mind everyone being mad at you for giving them a concussion, assuming they find out who's in that hot air balloon. Great book though. I used it to understand my parents for the most part, and now I can inwardly chuckle at their idiosyncracies, and get what I want from them.

 

[Wisp]

Need... book...

Ti is Titanium, by the way. (YAY CHEM!)

So we're Titanium, Neon, Silicon, and Iron in that order. Based off of Carbon, of course.

 

[Zero]

You mean, like, if you ask about skydiving she'll do it? Or if you ask her to do the dishes for you she'll do it? Or make pancakes, or something?

I really don't understand what that sentence means.

If I said I really wanted to go skydiving or something she would probably arrange it... I would really have to want to go though. Usually the request has to have some rational aspect. If I asked her to do a chore she'd probably hurt me. If I asked her to make me something and she was already making something she might. It doesn't seem like a good or fair bet to say she'll just act as my slave or something...

She's particularly adventurous (E and P [Outgoing and spontaneous]), so if a request could include some kind of activity or adventure for her she'll probably do it. Sometimes if I'm in trouble she'll try to take over the situation and this once greatly upset me. She doesn't know how overbearing she can be sometimes. She also doesn't seem at all reserved about telling people my faults, at least the ones she knows about. She's not critical about them, but she's always trying to make the best arrangements.

And she's very talkitive. Even if she thinks there's something wrong (like I seem down) she'll keep talking. She seems to talk more... And I just want her to shut up...

I have that feeling about the sky I suppose. I don't know if I've really had an extremely unique Sensing moment. I think my intuition is not particularly high, so I probably have those moments without thinking about them. Or perhaps I've simply never had that experience. Personally I don't know if I can even imagine becoming one with like grass or experiencing it more... I think more often about the air and how breathing it sometimes just doesn't seem possible or like enough. I suppose that's a similar feeling... When I was younger I would take pictures of the sky and when my parents got the pictures from vacations back (or whatever we were doing) there were always a few of the sky.

 

[Ermine]

Cryptic messages about staircases and dust removers?? o_0