Robot Chef

[Inquisitor]

I was cooking for hours yesterday and wore myself ragged. At the end of it, I knew what I needed was either:

1) Slave(s) to cook and clean for me. I am too poor to hire a personal chef and don't trust leaving a stranger in my house while I go off to work.

OR

2) Robot(s) to do the same.

Ideally, I would like to purchase something that looks like the "NS 5" from the movie I, Robot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8ThkQaEL4

Unfortunately, this doesn't exist yet, but we're getting close:

http://moley.com/

When this thing goes down in price, and assuming the 3D vision system works, this might be something I would consider buying.

To any computer/tech-savvy people here, do you think this would be worth getting? What do you think of how they designed this system?

 

[Reluctantly]

If it also does the dishes, I could program it, I was rich or middle class to afford it, and it came with a food delivery service, yeah I'd definitely use this.

Doubt it will be cheap enough for the average consumer though and I'm doubting I'll ever get rich.

 

[Anktark]

I am all for automated kitchens, that's one of the things that need to be done. However, a robot chasis with two hands imitating human work and using tools designed for humans? Who thought that was a great idea? The problem is not "I don't want to do the work in the kitchen as I do now so I need someone else to do it". The problem is "I want food prepared for consumption". It's like trying to create some artificial legs for a car instead of using wheels.

Let's say you are averse to 3D printed or nano-assembled food and want yours to be prepared from good old fashioned natural ingredients. Make something modular with some modules being multifunctional: some module to cut things in various ways, one to supply and distribute heat or cold, etc. You will have a piece of engineering that will be easier to program, maintain and repair and it won't take as much unnecessary space as one fifth of an android, not to mention parallel production. Don't get me wrong, robotic human hands are pretty cool, but if we want an apparatus for some specific tasks, we can do better.

 

[Reluctantly]

Why what's wrong with arms and hands? Hands are multi-functional and programmable for just about anything. And the food doesn't have to be prepared fast, it just has to be prepared so you can do something else with your time.

 

[Anktark]

Why what's wrong with arms and hands? Hands are multi-functional and programmable for just about anything. And the food doesn't have to be prepared fast, it just has to be prepared so you can do something else with your time.

I think I was unclear in trying to express my discontent with the portrayal of the fully automated kitchen.

Hands and arms are great: the forms follows the function and they are truly multifunctional. We can use them to throw rocks, spears, make a cup, dig with them, paddle, make a fist, push objects, grab branches, crush a paper cup or whatever else you can do. But we are trying to make food, we don't need most of that- mostly what we need from hand functionality is transportation and positioning of produce- like putting a cherry on top of something. We could have two dozens of manipulators that use less energy, material and take less space. As for all other kitchen functions- we could use tools or parts that don't need human input and don't need to rest nicely in a palm. Humans would probably be hard pressed to use those tools themselves- but that doesn't matter, because they don't have to- that's the idea.

In effort to try and communicate the inherent flaw I am seeing with this: imagine if instead of a printing press or a laser printer, humanity tried to create a human hand that could write with a pen. I am sure it would work, but we can do better.

 

[Cognisant]

Get ready made meals and a microwave or toaster oven.

Essentially it's the same thing except having the processing done in a factory is more efficient, making a robot that will fit in a kitchen and can do all the processes itself is possible but also making that robot cost effective is not.

 

[Anktark]

Get ready made meals and a microwave or toaster oven.

Essentially it's the same thing except having the processing done in a factory is more efficient, making a robot that will fit in a kitchen and can do all the processes itself is possible but also making that robot cost effective is not.

What if you want to make a meal out of your own fresh produce?
What if you want a custom meal, that is not sold anywhere else?
What if you are flying to a different planet and can't take that factory?
What if you don't trust people who operate that factory and/or don't want preservatives and additives?

I agree that mass production can be better streamlined and more efficient, but it's not always the answer.

 

[Inquisitor]

If it also does the dishes, I could program it, I was rich or middle class to afford it, and it came with a food delivery service, yeah I'd definitely use this.

Doubt it will be cheap enough for the average consumer though and I'm doubting I'll ever get rich.

I think you doubt too much. Technology always gets cheaper and better, sometimes exponentially so. On their website, you can see the "target price" keeps getting lower, and when a competing design pops up, I bet this thing will eventually cost a few thousand in today's dollars...and sooner than any of us might intuitively expect.

Get ready made meals and a microwave or toaster oven.

Essentially it's the same thing except having the processing done in a factory is more efficient, making a robot that will fit in a kitchen and can do all the processes itself is possible but also making that robot cost effective is not.

Microwaving food turns it into toxic crap. There's some evidence that microwaves actually flip the optical rotation of some amino acids. Fresh, homemade food is a must for everyone. You cannot freeze, preserve, or vacuum-dry most food without affecting its quality. It's ok once in a while, but not everyday.

We could have two dozens of manipulators that use less energy, material and take less space. As for all other kitchen functions- we could use tools or parts that don't need human input and don't need to rest nicely in a palm. Humans would probably be hard pressed to use those tools themselves- but that doesn't matter, because they don't have to- that's the idea.

In effort to try and communicate the inherent flaw I am seeing with this: imagine if instead of a printing press or a laser printer, humanity tried to create a human hand that could write with a pen. I am sure it would work, but we can do better.

I get where you are going with this, and it's a good point. However, I see two major flaws with this argument.

1) You would need to design a machine that accomplishes all of the same tasks you currently do to prepare food and does not take up half the kitchen.

2) The other flaw is that you need to be able to buy all the same items you do now from the grocery store, and the robot has to be able to use all of these items. If it is unable to do that, then it has to have loading ports for various inputs like oil, spices, salt, pepper, sugar, flour, pasta, grains, vegetables and so on which you load into it manually.

The machine has to be able to accomplish everything that a human currently does from washing to cutting to choosing the right tools for the job to adding ingredients in the right order and manipulating them correctly under correct heat settings to serving the dish and cleaning itself. What I like about the Moley module is that humans can still use the kitchen if necessary. The arms retract upwards.

 

[Anktark]

I get where you are going with this, and it's a good point. However, I see two major flaws with this argument.

1) You would need to design a machine that accomplishes all of the same tasks you currently do to prepare food and does not take up half the kitchen.

We are probably thinking of different concepts here. Your idea is a sort of chef that resides in your kitchen as it is now. I am thinking of an automated food processor/kitchen that humans don't walk into. Like you don't walk into your refrigerator or an oven (unless they are big enough). In my concept, the thing could potentially take up half your current kitchen, but it will be your whole kitchen, so it would save space. Refrigerator, oven, dishwasher, cupboards already take most of the kitchen space- now we would have those, plus something that turns products into meals in one appliance. Appliance that takes energy and products as ingredients and outputs prepared food and (sorted) trash as output.

2) The other flaw is that you need to be able to buy all the same items you do now from the grocery store, and the robot has to be able to use all of these items. If it is unable to do that, then it has to have loading ports for various inputs like oil, spices, salt, pepper, sugar, flour, pasta, grains, vegetables and so on which you load into it manually.

Well, fuck all that work. I think I would rather just have a rectangle whole a meter wide, stuff everything in there still packaged and let the computer sort it all out. Fire and forget style. Actually, let just drones deliver it there straight from the store, I am lazy. With image recognition getting better, smell and taste analyzers already being created it shouldn't be a problem. If you stuffed in something exotic or unusual (a corpse), ask the user for help on how to classify it. The suppliers could mark the packaging if they wanted to help or make sure their products are used optimally.

The machine has to be able to accomplish everything that a human currently does from washing to cutting to choosing the right tools for the job to adding ingredients in the right order and manipulating them correctly under correct heat settings to serving the dish and cleaning itself. What I like about the Moley module is that humans can still use the kitchen if necessary. The arms retract upwards.

I don't want the machine to do everything human currently does. I want it do more more. Like added functionality to check produce for parasites, bacteria, allergens or just plain old freshness/quality. Taking care of produce management- storing, preserving, throwing out old, replenishing the stock or ordering new if you want something different for your supper, but there are no required ingredients in the storage.

If there is a requirement for humans to still be in the kitchen, then it complicates everything, as is with most things. Unless they are there as one of the ingredients.

I understand now that we are thinking of different things, there is no real argument over this.

 

[Inquisitor]

No argument here. Just a discussion.

I like your ideas. This machine of yours sounds like a super super advanced appliance. It sounds too complicated actually. Boggles the mind to think of this gigantic refrigerator-like box in the kitchen that is able to do all the things you talked about. I don't think I would be very comfortable with this thing. Too big of an adjustment. Maybe further down the line...

Drones are here already. They just need approval for grocery delivery. Imagine a helipad on top of every major grocery store. Just send your personal drone there and pick up your package of stuff which you order online. Retail workers would simply load customer orders into reusable boxes for pickup. This would also cut down on plastic/paper bags. Totally doable right now. The only problems are the lack of a drone traffic control infrastructure and drone reliability. Knowing how anal this country is about safety and health, if the drone malfunction rate is higher than on commercial aircraft, they will remained banned is my guess.

I still think it would be more cost-effective to use robot arms and just improve software and vision. If you could install retractable arms in the ceiling, maybe even 4-5 on separate tracks all wirelessly connected to a central computer, you could install this unit fairly inconspicuously in any kitchen that has a ceiling. The arms would be able to do most of the things you mentioned. As a result of our discussion, I actually think this is the direction Moley should go in. The problem is they obviously want to mass produce a single product that they can ship. What I'm talking about would have to be a custom job and would involve electricians and other contractors. Every kitchen is different, but with good vision and other sensors, you could basically turn your kitchen into a small factory. When the robots are finished cooking or whatever, they would just retract back into the ceiling. For small apartments/singles, you could simply buy 2 arms and that would be enough. For larger families, you could increase the number of arms.

This has got me thinking (Ne going crazy)...if you had wireless cameras dotted all around the kitchen in addition to the ones on the arms themselves, the computer would be able to render a real-time 3D model of the kitchen. It would be safe. And it would maximize efficiency and control.

I want to be able to go into my fridge and get things myself once in a while. Maybe I even want to cook for myself sometimes. Or maybe I like cooking, but I have 5 kids and need help to pack their lunches...Every family is different. That's why I think a custom system would be so appealing, and it would be a perfect transition to the kinds of fully automated production units you're talking about. I think that's for a time when people can no longer imagine ever cooking anything for themselves because robots are just too damn good.

I think your idea would, however, be excellent for fast food restaurants, food production in disaster zones/army bases, also possibly prisons or even schools. Basically anywhere that is big and demands rapid production of large amounts of freshly-made meals that need to be better than we can currently come up with. Here's an example of a robot barista for instance:

https://briggo.com/web/#about

 

[Rook]

Spoiler

Effective?
Yes.
Creative?
I doubt.
Remember, at a certain level, chefs are artists.
Easy meals such as mash potatoes can be made by robots, this will probably occur at places like prisons, orphanages and boarding schools were little artistic freedom is required in terms of food making.

 

[Architect]

3D printed food will be here in the next decade. If your tastes aren't too sophisticated perhaps that'll do.

 

[Cognisant]

What if you want to make a meal out of your own fresh produce?
What if you want a custom meal, that is not sold anywhere else?
What if you are flying to a different planet and can't take that factory?
What if you don't trust people who operate that factory and/or don't want preservatives and additives?

Build your own factory and sell your excess.

3D printed food will be here in the next decade. If your tastes aren't too sophisticated perhaps that'll do.

Reduce everything to flavorless paste, recombine said paste in some kind of blender and add artificial flavors/colors, extrude onto a plate and solidify by heat, partial dehydration or some other process, you now have 3D printed food.

I'd eat that, it's all chemistry really and once it's all broken down by my saliva and stomach acids my body isn't going to care where the proteins and sugars came from.

 

[SpaceYeti]

 

[Shieru]

Thanks for sharing this very novel innovation, Inquisitor.

I've seen several assembly line robots on the market that utilize imitation of human movements for self-programming. This one's a bit different, however, because of the multiplicity of nuanced tasks it seems to be capable of. I'm no expert on robotics, but I think it could end up being an intelligent investment (after all the bugs have been worked out anyway..)

I actually like the design. Although it could be seen as corny/nostalgic, the form of human hands is a result of evolutionary refinement over the ages. I doubt we could come up with something much more efficient for things like the artful task of cooking.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I'd like to have all-in-one pulp food with all the essential healthy ingredients made financially viable. Add water and you're done kind of meal.
It's there but it's far from cheap / tested.

No need for robots or fine meals. Preparing food is such a waste of time, unless it's meant as a treat, then yeah I could see the utility of a robot or spending 3-4 hours in kitchen.

 

[Inquisitor]

3D printed food will be here in the next decade. If your tastes aren't too sophisticated perhaps that'll do.

Absolutely horrified by the idea of this. If it grows in the ground without any added input besides water and maybe manure/compost, I'll eat it. Otherwise, count me out.

Spoiler

Effective?
Yes.
Creative?
I doubt.
Remember, at a certain level, chefs are artists.
Easy meals such as mash potatoes can be made by robots, this will probably occur at places like prisons, orphanages and boarding schools were little artistic freedom is required in terms of food making.

The robot itself doesn't have to be creative. That's the beauty of it. The way they made this machine was by having a human wear a kind of suit that recorded his motions as he prepared the food. In theory, the robot I want, with multiple overhanging arms, could be programmed in the same way by anyone. Make a dish once, while wearing this electronic suit, and the robot copies your movements. You never have to make the same dish twice. This approach I think would be far more efficient than trying to design a complicated algorithm for every meal. Plus it's more flexible and can be customized any way you want it.

Build your own factory and sell your excess.


Reduce everything to flavorless paste, recombine said paste in some kind of blender and add artificial flavors/colors, extrude onto a plate and solidify by heat, partial dehydration or some other process, you now have 3D printed food.

I'd eat that, it's all chemistry really and once it's all broken down by my saliva and stomach acids my body isn't going to care where the proteins and sugars came from.

I really hope you're joking. Food is way more than the sum of its parts. Suicidal to think otherwise.

Thanks for sharing this very novel innovation, Inquisitor.

I've seen several assembly line robots on the market that utilize imitation of human movements for self-programming. This one's a bit different, however, because of the multiplicity of nuanced tasks it seems to be capable of. I'm no expert on robotics, but I think it could end up being an intelligent investment (after all the bugs have been worked out anyway..)

I actually like the design. Although it could be seen as corny/nostalgic, the form of human hands is a result of evolutionary refinement over the ages. I doubt we could come up with something much more efficient for things like the artful task of cooking.

Agree. Human hands are wonderful indeed.

I'd like to have all-in-one pulp food with all the essential healthy ingredients made financially viable. Add water and you're done kind of meal.
It's there but it's far from cheap / tested.

No need for robots or fine meals. Preparing food is such a waste of time, unless it's meant as a treat, then yeah I could see the utility of a robot or spending 3-4 hours in kitchen.

In our society, preparing food is an unfortunate necessity. Nature is the ultimate dictatorship. The human body has very strict constraints in terms of what kinds of foods it is able to digest WHILE not undergoing premature aging at the same time. You can eat PB & J your whole life, but you WILL age much more rapidly. The only way to live a long, healthy, balanced life is very old-school. Whole foods, plant-based, with added animal products for those who need the extra nutrition. If it doesn't grow in nature, the body is not designed for it. I agree food prep sucks SO MUCH, but other people can't be trusted. They cut too many corners on quality and freshness. If this weren't true, obesity would not affect 1/3 of the population.