respect and status matters

[WALKYRIA]

Hi everybody, i would like to know: What is the consequence of high status behaviour or body language or... external signs of high status on your environnement?

-studies have shown that signs of high status(behaviour, body language, outer signs) attracted girls more than beauty or strenght in a man , what do you think?
-How do you feel when in the presence of a high status person, do u fill diminished? by what, by hes presumably power over you?
-how is an INTP boss with his inferiors?
-Why INTP despise authorithy and superficial signs of superiority?
-what's the role of status in INTP's; is it really important for an INTP to feel superior to others in order to become confident? Is it important for INTP to be aknowledged by others?(I know many of us say that they don't need people's approval but is that really true?)




Am asking this becoz, since little time, people look up to me and i don't really understand how a simple outer sign(doctor's suit for example in hospital or a sthetoscope) can make people react considerably differently to you. It moves me becoz i like not getting noticed( and now everybody notice me, and ask me for informations, and smiles,...and really I.. HATE.. THAT even though i like it a little bit !). People come to you assuming you are superior, and that really feels wrong becoz "status" doesnt mean "better" right? Can you relate to this?

 

[Jennywocky]

I would like to know How you act and react in a hierarchy environnement? DO you kiss ass ? or u just do the job and don't give a crap about ur superiors as long as the job is done?

　
I tend to just be pragmatic and work to get the job done. if I includes bosses in particular decisions or listen to them, it's purely based on their functional role and not on their status. I prefer to not include the opinions of bosses who have no real influence on outcome or responsibility in the decision. But it depends on where you work. Sometimes company politics end up playing a part, and then you have to decide whether you're willing to take a hit by not involving someone or accepting their input on a particular decision.
　
I have a lot of respect for superiors who actually understand the work I do and can either comment intelligently on it OR acknowledge they don't know much about it and allow those with more understanding to make the decisions. Both are admirable to me. I just don't much respect bosses who meddle in decisions while not understanding their role, or who disregard the needs and views of the working staff in a position to resolve the issues productively.
　

WHy this constant need to please and to show external(thus fake) signs of respect... IS this imposed by society or it's a fake belief?

It ranges. Some people are pragmatic. Some believe in organizational structure and respect for authority as a positive. Some are playing the system to their own benefit. Some of it is culturally ingrained. In some structures it might make sense; in others, not so much. I can't make a blanket statement over this.

Definitely there is a tribal thing going, and tribal behavior developed as a survival skill.
　

How is an INTP boss with his inferiors?

Typically INTP bosses would expect their workers to be competent. They will accept criticism of policy as long as the criticism is rational and can be supported, but wouldn't appreciate drama for the sake of drama.

Organization would be looser -- typically as long as the job gets down and information where it needs to go, organization need not be rigid. They appreciate ingenuity and investment by staff. They want to improve the system, not just maintain it. People are rewarded on merit. The INTP boss would respect employee contributions but might not always be the best at showing it and would need to be a little more vocal to encourage people under them.

How do you define high status body language?

Not sure.

Other question: Why girls are ridiculously attracted by the status( since biginning of med school, I have had many indecent proposals by..married women/ girls in couple who pretended to be so in love with their men.. bitches !)... IT is really crazy . A recent study showed that boys(even the ugliest ones) with high status body language(suit, confidence, external signs of high status,..Etc) had far more succes(smiles,..etc) than just beautiful and sexy boys with no outter signs of hig status.. why is that? why is it that girls are attracted to status(thus are superficial) and boys are attracted to beauty/sexiness(and thus are superficial too).. do you have an idea?

If it's dominant across cultures, you know what that suggests. And I can go on about reproductive evolution, blah blah blah, of course. We can construct whole theories as to how this behavior evolved.

There's also a shallowness factor. The more self-conscious and "out of the system" people get, the less they are driven by traditional motivations like status and beauty. Men provide for their familes and affirm the woman's desirability; women stroke the man's ego and affirm his competence and status. It's a circle. But I think as people age, if they are growing, they fall out of those patterns. I don't remember ever being attracted to someone because of status; in fact, it's kind of a turn-off for me.

 

[BigApplePi]

Excellent replies Jenny.

 

[Cavallier]

Am asking this becoz, since little time, people look up to me and i don't really understand how a simple outer sign(doctor's suit for example in hospital or a sthetoscope) can make people react considerably differently to you. It moves me becoz i like not getting noticed( and now everybody notice me, and ask me for informations, and smiles,...and really I.. HATE.. THAT even though i like it a little bit !). People come to you assuming you are superior, and that really feels wrong becoz "status" doesnt mean "better" right? Can you relate to this?

I can relate to this. Because I am reserved, generally only speak up if I know the solution to a problem, and I have a nonchalant body language my coworkers tend to defer to me when I really don't want them to. It drives me crazy. It is nice to be acknowledged as intelligent and capable but I'd really just prefer if people left me alone. I silently bid my coworkers a "now leave me the hell alone" after helping them.

I think a lot of it comes from conditioning. We've been subconciously raised to respond a certain way to power signals. We have our differences in personality it's true but we are still very much chained by the society we grew up in.

For example: My father in law did not like having to wear a suit to work everyday. He thought it was overbearing and flashy. He is a Doctor in Psychiatry. Early on in his practice he found that his patients would not pay him and would not take his advice on medications. He asked his colleagues about it and they suggested he wear a suit, fancier expensive shoes, and other status symbols. He discovered that when he wore the suit his clients payed him without delay and took his advice to heart.

INTPs might not like to make power displays out of disgust because at it's base root it is manipulation. However, many people react by rote to those displays and it can be handy to play the game.

 

[WALKYRIA]

For example: My father in law did not like having to wear a suit to work everyday. He thought it was overbearing and flashy. He is a Doctor in Psychiatry. Early on in his practice he found that his patients would not pay him and would not take his advice on medications. He asked his colleagues about it and they suggested he wear a suit, fancier expensive shoes, and other status symbols. He discovered that when he wore the suit his clients payed him without delay and took his advice to heart.
.

Oh, i understand that... father in law is an INTP ? psychiatrist? How is he living the life as a psychiatrist? is he generally happy ? has he got free time? Sorry for asking but i would like to go in psychiatry , i think it's the most suited for our personnality in the med fields.


Yeah, people react by rote like animals... but really it's freaky; I see it as people put a lot trust in the society, it's facades and its workers(might they be dumbass or not) more than in their own intelligence. Isnt that the reason why we INTP hate most of people so much, no lateral thinking , no independance of thought

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

-studies have shown that signs of high status(behaviour, body language, outer signs) attracted girls more than beauty or strenght in a man , what do you think?

They likely attract certain types of girls. None of which are mine. One can learn and mimic/act accordingly, but this can produce a conflict with authenticity, which is why I avoid it when it comes to friendship, dating, etc.

-How do you feel when in the presence of a high status person, do u fill diminished? by what, by hes presumably power over you?

It depends on whether their status/authority is ascribed or achieved. I like achieved authority.

I believe a tremendously undervalued quality is the ability to switch from high status/class behavior to low at will and blend in anywhere along the gradient. What gives away status are symbols, which informally verify one's abilities. When I'm okay with being bothered, I display them, and when I'm not, they're hidden. Simple as that.

 

[~~~]

My thinking is that it is a thinking shortcut. People who normally wear white lab coats tend to do lab experiments, read and think and therefore the average person normally associates someone who knows what they are talking about with a white lab coat. Hence, people just automatically assume that someone wearing a white lab coat knows what they are talking about. Other people (say pretenders) take advantage of this though. What is hilarious to watch is when pretenders imitate pretenders. There are some famous experiments along these lines.

 

[Cognisant]

INTP self assurance can be misinterpreted as status when in fact the INTP in question just doesn't give a shit, we can even seem aloof and cool when we're actually just daydreaming, of course the facade is broken the moment the INTP becomes aware of their apparent status or coolness and self consciously plays along with it.

Then there's "nerding out" when an INTP who is normally squeaky & insecure suddenly turns into everyone's favourite time lord while talking about something incredibly obscure/esoteric only to revert back the moment they've finished talking.

 

[Jennywocky]

I believe a tremendously undervalued quality is the ability to switch from high status/class behavior to low at will and blend in anywhere along the gradient. What gives away status are symbols, which informally verify one's abilities. When I'm okay with being bothered, I display them, and when I'm not, they're hidden. Simple as that.

Good point. Kind of the chameleon effect, in a specific kind of instance.

(I know in general I am capable of fitting in with all types of people, they all scan me as part of their crowd.)

 

[FlowerThug]

I feel like social status is seen as the major tool of risk management as it applies to life. the usefulness of it is not that apparent in developed nations, but if you want to step into an area where you cannot rely on public services as heavenly as we do in the Western world, a higher status in society help you get stuff done, stuff that people with the lower status in society have a hard time getting done.
this is just an example of higher status in society, status achieved to various methods. it's the ability to wield such a social power, that can be translated as an efficient tool for risk management.
the most important type of power to have, is obviously determined by the environment that the individual exists in. these days in current society the social status has more power than does brute strength, to effectively manage risks more likely to be in encountered.

 

[truthseeker72]

Hi everybody, i would like to know: What is the consequence of high status behaviour or body language or... external signs of high status on your environnement?

-studies have shown that signs of high status(behaviour, body language, outer signs) attracted girls more than beauty or strenght in a man , what do you think?
-How do you feel when in the presence of a high status person, do u fill diminished? by what, by hes presumably power over you?
-how is an INTP boss with his inferiors?
-Why INTP despise authorithy and superficial signs of superiority?
-what's the role of status in INTP's; is it really important for an INTP to feel superior to others in order to become confident? Is it important for INTP to be aknowledged by others?(I know many of us say that they don't need people's approval but is that really true?)




Am asking this becoz, since little time, people look up to me and i don't really understand how a simple outer sign(doctor's suit for example in hospital or a sthetoscope) can make people react considerably differently to you. It moves me becoz i like not getting noticed( and now everybody notice me, and ask me for informations, and smiles,...and really I.. HATE.. THAT even though i like it a little bit !). People come to you assuming you are superior, and that really feels wrong becoz "status" doesnt mean "better" right? Can you relate to this?

Contrary to popular belief, women respond just as strongly to physical attractiveness in the opposite sex as us "visual" men do. Two UCLA researchers, David Frederick and Martie Haselton, conducted a study of over one hundred male UCLA undergraduates. They found that the male students who possessed muscular physiques reported having an average of more than twice as many lifetime sexual partners as their scrawnier peers. The better-built men were also twice as likely to have slept with a woman who was involved in a committed relationship with another man. Haselton concluded that "[T]his shows women are putting a premium on attractiveness. Women care about muscularity when they choose partners."

There's more. A group of anthropologists and psychologists from Penn State University discovered that women who had partners who rated higher on male attractiveness (facial symmetry, strong jawline, etc.) reported having significantly more orgasms during intercourse as women with plain-looking boyfriends. Their report stated that "objective measures of the quality of women's mates-men's attractiveness and masculinity-significantly predicted the women's orgasms."

So, do you still think that the average thirty-something woman would pick a short, flabby man (think Costanza from Seinfeld) over Hugh Jackman just because the former dons doctor's scrubs? "Marrying well" was important to women several generations ago when most women chose to be housewives. 21st century western women care more about personal fulfillment.

 

[WALKYRIA]

So, do you still think that the average thirty-something woman would pick a short, flabby man (think Costanza from Seinfeld) over Hugh Jackman just because the former dons doctor's scrubs? "Marrying well" was important to women several generations ago when most women chose to be housewives. 21st century western women care more about personal fulfillment.

Of course, a normal(read ES**) girl will choose flabby man doctor with high status behaviours over hugh jackman poor man; jackman has success only becoz he is both a celebrity + goodlooking. I look good, but i have seen people who look way better than me and still get nothing from a girl... this fact alwayz striked me as unfair and unlogical, but that's reality and reality is crazy man.
It's not only about conscient choosing or logical weighing, there is a whole bunch of uncounsciouness/emotional triggers inolved in the choosing process.
I hear what you sayin though...
But anyway, ive seen another study pretending the completely opposite of what your saying... maybe the sample of study was not heterogenous enough ?

 

[MrKappa]

-How do you feel when in the presence of a high status person, do u fill diminished? by what, by hes presumably power over you?

Depends on the nature of the situation. Normally police officers fail to diminish me. However, there was one police chief who towered over me and his presence and the way he commanded space, I knew there was no option except to surrender to every command.

It wasn't his status, it was his stature.