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Remake of Ghost in the Shell

scenefinale

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#1

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
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#2
Scarlett Johansson?
 

scenefinale

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#4
She was also in Lucy which was somewhat about intelligence (although the whole idea of Lucy was based on the incorrect idea that we only use 10% of our brains).
 
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#5
this gonna suck so hard :D

completely unnecessary remake too, the original is more or less perfect, let the plebs who wont watch it because it's animated remain ignorant of its genius
 
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Objects in the mirror might look closer than they
#6
You know i was thinking of watching this one the other day.
I'll probably watch it tonight after gym + bag of potatos and some coke, why gym then? i don't get fat that easily and also i keep my muscles fit.
yeh chill out night, tertiary Si stuff.
 

Cognisant

Condescending Bastard
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#7
Motoko Kusanagi has a pretty unique mind, as a veteran solider she's cold, disciplined, tough as titanium nails, the sort of person who could watch an atrocity without showing a hint of remorse if the mission required her to maintain her cover. But she's not just a veteran solider, she's a strong willed and independent thinking philosopher with her ever evolving views on morality, justice, sociopolitical issues, even spirituality. And if all that wasn't enough she's also a bisexual (possibly lesbian) woman who has a body designed to be attractive and owns it, by which I mean she's neither ashamed to be seen naked nor gets off on being seen either, she's just 100% comfortable in her own flawless artificial skin.

Who the hell could do that role justice?

Sigourney Weaver perhaps, but then it wouldn't be a live action movie.
Milla Jovovich was pretty good in Ultraviolet...
Scarlett Johansson wouldn't be my first choice, I can't get the wavy red hair and come hither lips out of my head but then again if she wants are role where she can be taken seriously as an actress and not just for her breasts & ass then this is her chance.
 

Jennywocky

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#8
Rofl where have you been?! SJ's done tons of shit as a serious actress. Stop watching her ass and watch some of her other movies like "Under the skin," "Her," "Lost in Translation," "The Prestige," etc. Apparently you're only acquainted with her comic book stuff.

(It's like saying, "Now that Liam Neeson has his foot in the door with Taken 1-3, he should try for some serious roles.")
 

Cognisant

Condescending Bastard
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Messages
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#9
Hey I'm not saying those aren't real movies but "Under the Skin" sounds like a "Species" remake, in "Her" she was a sexy sounding disembodied voice, "Lost in Translation" had her being the love interest, ditto for the "The Prestige".

Playing Motoko Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell is a lead role with a character who for reasons I just explained would be incredibly difficult to adequately portray, if she could do this movie and pull it off it would overshadow everything she's done so far.
 

Jennywocky

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#10
Hey I'm not saying those aren't real movies but "Under the Skin" sounds like a "Species" remake,
You need to actually learn more rather than making guesses.

"Under the Skin" is mainly an arthouse film w/ dark elements, it has nothing to do with "Species" which is a B-rate horror flick. It was basically on every serious critic's top ten list for the year, while not making much of a splash with the general audience because it demands you actually be patient and watch intently. She did a remarkable job with how she carried herself physically to express feelings and ideas. It's a pretty unsettling movie.

She was a replacement for "Her" and came in later in production, to replace the original choice whose tone and personality didn't fit what the director wanted. So she didn't have a lot of time to figure out the role but did. And that role was about more than "sex."

You need to get a finer brush.

Playing Motoko Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell is a lead role with a character who for reasons I just explained would be incredibly difficult to adequately portray, if she could do this movie and pull it off it would overshadow everything she's done so far.
I have no idea who is directing this movie, but I'd be very scared after seeing shit like "Watchmen" and "V for Vendetta" come out. You have books that actually have a lot of depth, nuance, and serious elements, but Hollywood just focuses on fights and eye candy because it's a comic book or anime.
 

Pyropyro

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#11
I don't know. English adaptations of Japanese works tend to suck. Either some cultural and lore nuances get lost in translation or Hollywood shoehorn the work into their summer movie template.

I have no idea who is directing this movie, but I'd be very scared after seeing shit like "Watchmen" and "V for Vendetta" come out. You have books that actually have a lot of depth, nuance, and serious elements, but Hollywood just focuses on fights and eye candy because it's a comic book or anime.
Exactly. I hope that they at least utilize Johansson's acting prowess rather than just her um... assets.
 
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#12
maybe if they combine this with silent hill to make two new films

"ghost in the shit" or "silent hell"? answer carefully for it says a lot of you as a person.
 
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#14
I think she could play the part just fine under the right circumstances. Though of course the circumstances are going to be wrong. Still she's not the reason this is going to suck, in fact I think she's the kind of actress for the role. She can get a presence going that isn't all too different from Kusanagi's. That dismissive, stoic, singularly driven thingie...
 

Pizzabeak

Guardians of the galaxy
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#16
But that isn't American ^^.

And GitS is pretty overrated, the series or manga are probably better though. Either way the fact a live action adaptation got greenlit is a milestone for the fanbase. Of course ScarJo is controversial, the studios probably needed some star power to boost morale knowing the risks of a potentially non faithful adaptation (ScarJo's name bringing in additional receipts, plus her recent sci-fi work including the Avengers gives her credibility toward "deep science fiction" roles). Sort of the same deal that was going on with Ant-Man.

Not hyped. After the mess that was Dragon Ball Evolution and Hollywood still hasn't learned a thing. I wonder if it'll be more indie under the radar or the next big summer blockbuster type deal. Hopefully this settles once and for all the out of race non-asian casting decisions, which have actually never bothered me.
 
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I'm intrinsically luminous, mortals. I'm 4ever
#17
No, close, but lacking.

If you're in New York, there's nothing you can't do.
 

EyeSeeCold

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#18
I'm sure Scarlett Johansson can pull off a serious act like this if she researched and had a good script+directing, but her previous roles as well as celebrity image will affect the overall plausibility of the film. It was an unneeded obstacle that the director/producer took on when an unknown ensemble cast would have been ideal for the film's atmosphere.

Not hyped. After the mess that was Dragon Ball Evolution and Hollywood still hasn't learned a thing. I wonder if it'll be more indie under the radar or the next big summer blockbuster type deal. Hopefully this settles once and for all the out of race non-asian casting decisions, which have actually never bothered me.
I don't think the characters themselves in some manga/anime are necessarily Asian, but any cultural elements should be preserved of course.
 
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#19
But that isn't American ^^.

And GitS is pretty overrated, the series or manga are probably better though. Either way the fact a live action adaptation got greenlit is a milestone for the fanbase. Of course ScarJo is controversial, the studios probably needed some star power to boost morale knowing the risks of a potentially non faithful adaptation (ScarJo's name bringing in additional receipts, plus her recent sci-fi work including the Avengers gives her credibility toward "deep science fiction" roles). Sort of the same deal that was going on with Ant-Man.

Not hyped. After the mess that was Dragon Ball Evolution and Hollywood still hasn't learned a thing. I wonder if it'll be more indie under the radar or the next big summer blockbuster type deal. Hopefully this settles once and for all the out of race non-asian casting decisions, which have actually never bothered me.
neither the series nor manga come close to the movie

calling it overrated is such a hipster thing to do
 

Kuu

Galactic God-Emperor
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#20
Hollywood adapting GitS?

:walkout:

Scarlett Johansson as Motoko? :ahh:

Even if we assume she has the talent to play the role, she is just not the kind of body/face I'd pick for the Major. Like Cog said, you need some sort of mannish Sigourney Weaver in Alien amazon warrior kind of woman. A cast of unknowns would probably work better.

Putting that to the side though, I imagine instant fail just thinking of the Hollywood corporate meddling mangling the material into some hideous shit, as they often do with their "remakes".


Maybe if it was german or french...
 

Melkor

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#21
I dread it's coming with all my soul.

In other news. I.G productions is producing a legitimate GiTs movie as part of the 25th anniversary which appears to have a traditional more tomboyish Motoko and not the anorexic no hope we got in the Arise series. :D

(And judging by the teaser will delve into the background/theme of her being a mass produced model)


BE EXCITED.
 

Reluctantly

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#22
Maybe it will be good. But a part of me wants it to fail so it doesn't become part of popular culture. :/
 

Melkor

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#23
Maybe it will be good. But a part of me wants it to fail so it doesn't become part of popular culture. :/

THANK GOD.

It isn't just me that is a quasi Hipster that desires excellent things and to share them with small groups of people but at the same time has a juxtaposing urge to make them secret and refined and hidden deep from the unwashed massessssssss
*Breathes*
 

idokaiho

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#24
Does anyone even know of an American adaptation of Japanese storytelling that portrays the work as intended? I can see it potentially being good in the way an American film can be but having lost the essence of what it was. I thought GITS was amazing and only in ways I have come to experience through anime. If Hollywood somehow pulls off the essence of GITS I doubt it would have the same impact on Americans. Hollywood targets the masses, and the masses in America are Americans. The cultures are so different that it makes me assume that it would require a new approach to reach similar perceptions in the American mind, thus changing the overall essence.
 

Jennywocky

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#25
I'm sure Scarlett Johansson can pull off a serious act like this if she researched and had a good script+directing, but her previous roles as well as celebrity image will affect the overall plausibility of the film. It was an unneeded obstacle that the director/producer took on when an unknown ensemble cast would have been ideal for the film's atmosphere.
I do become disappointed when studios focus on big-name actors to sell a movie that could have sold itself and would have benefited more from other actors... perhaps even relative unknowns. (I get sick after awhile of when particular actors "glut" the marketplace and become shoe-ins for roles just because of their popularity.) "Known" actors also sometimes distract viewers from the story because the viewers are like, "Look at <so and so>!" instead.

Sometimes small budgets are beneficial because they can't afford A-listers, so they look for qualified unknowns and find them.

Does anyone even know of an American adaptation of Japanese storytelling that portrays the work as intended?

Not really sure. Most of my experience there is in the horror flick genre and film conversions. I actually liked the American version of The Grudge better than the original, but usually (like with "The Uninvited / Tale of Two Sisters") they end up worse. (I should also note that The Grudge was remade for US audiences by the same director who made the original Asian one. *doh* So he was just benefiting from another working of the script + a larger budget.)
 

Jennywocky

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#26
Crash and burn, baby.
Crash and burn.

Was it the whitewashing?
Was it the focus on action versus the more philosophical elements?
Was it the inability of the studio to know how to market it / target an audience?

Not sure. I haven't seen it yet. I've heard the graphics and action is okay, but it just doesn't go as far as the anime version did from an ideas standpoint.
 

Blarraun

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#27
Meh. Ain't gonna watch it. Ain't gonna get worked up over no film no nothin.

It's probably good from the production standpoint and people tend to like it is what I gather from their opinions.

I don't want to erase the image of the characters I have and every film destroys the imagined pictures and superimposes its own. There's also an off chance that I'd count every hollywood thing they do, feeling quite pissed.
 

Kuu

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#28
Was it the whitewashing?
Jesus christ, Americans are so insane. Nobody else gives a fuck, because there IS NO GODDAMN WHITEWASHING. Whitewashing is about history and actual cultures that exist(ed), and literally washing over the politically important issues, and replacing natives with white saviours.... not fictional futures with raceless apolitical military killer cyborgs that wax philosophical, you retards!

(Don't mean you Jenny, just need to get it out of my system)

Not sure. I haven't seen it yet.
This is the reason why it's "failing" in the US. People didn't even bother to see it, yet already commented negatively on it, or just came in negatively biased after all the retard drama about absolutely fucking nothing. Meanwhile other films that are the worst tier of brainmelting trash or politically/culturally offensive rake in the money.


Is the movie good? I didn't have high expectations, so to me it's ok, maybe 6, 7 out of 10. It's decent for an adaptation, certainly much better than previous hollywood ones. It's not fantastic, and will of course disappoint the hardcore fans, because they have unrealistic expectations (the anime film was actually very barebones, it was the tv show that fleshed out the world and philosophy and characters... and you can't cram all that in one film).

It's not really cerebral, but it didn't turn into a Michael Bay explosions fest. It's actually very contained in its action, its more of a suspense thriller. The trailers actually make it seem like its a dumber movie than it is (fucking hollywood trailers just keep getting worse and worse).

Johanssen and others are ok, but the script isn't particularly inspired and there are a few really cringeworthy lines. Side characters don't get much development which is a real shame. The biggest thing that disappointed me was actually the music... it was just so damn weak. Like I wanted some sweet retro cyberpunk electro beats, not this generic ambient blandness...

The photography work was pretty great though, some interesting and unusual framings, and of course gorgeous sci-fi eye-candy everywhere. It was even good in 3D, which is rare.

I think studio meddling made it have an identity crisis; not enough idiotic action for the lowest common denominator viewer, but also doesn't sufficiently please the critical filmviewer nor satisfy the fanbase entirely... it's kind of caught in the middle of trying to cater a bit to both but reaching neither. I'm pretty sure there will be a director's cut to put back in material and fix some things.

In spite of its flaws I enjoyed it, and considering the hard task of adapting such material, I think the director deserves praise for at least making it watchable and not the shit-tier adaptations that have come before it.
 

Seteleechete

Together forever
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#29
[Silina: it was a decent movie(we wanted to experience seeing a movie at the theaters and this was the best option we had. Funnily there are many things we didn't directly learn in the anime that were said here(like the origins of this all since we skipped that bit. And what exactly a ghost was... Guess it was implied but the movie explained explicitly.) Also high tech in non-anime form is so much cooler!]
 

Jennywocky

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#31
Jesus christ, Americans are so insane. Nobody else gives a fuck, because there IS NO GODDAMN WHITEWASHING. Whitewashing is about history and actual cultures that exist(ed), and literally washing over the politically important issues, and replacing natives with white saviours.... not fictional futures with raceless apolitical military killer cyborgs that wax philosophical, you retards!

(Don't mean you Jenny, just need to get it out of my system)
Feel free, I only dropped it because I saw it as such a dominant point popping out in online articles I was reading. So I'm sure for some people, they just went with it. It really did not help that the release coincided with the Netflix Iron Fist series drop, which aside from any of these issues, had a pretty terrible pilot episode (and I never bothered with the rest). I think the issue has had teeth sometimes, although other times (like with Cloud Atlas) it was completely missing the point.

This is the reason why it's "failing" in the US. People didn't even bother to see it, yet already commented negatively on it, or just came in negatively biased after all the retard drama about absolutely fucking nothing. Meanwhile other films that are the worst tier of brainmelting trash or politically/culturally offensive rake in the money.
Oh come on, Baby Boss or whatever it is is likely such an EXCELLENT movie... :phear:

I do think the marketing campaign was kind of vague in terms of what the movie was, while seemingly managing to show a lot of stuff I'd rather not know until I watched the movie while focusing on visual spectacle.

Is the movie good? I didn't have high expectations, so to me it's ok, maybe 6, 7 out of 10. It's decent for an adaptation, certainly much better than previous hollywood ones. It's not fantastic, and will of course disappoint the hardcore fans, because they have unrealistic expectations (the anime film was actually very barebones, it was the tv show that fleshed out the world and philosophy and characters... and you can't cram all that in one film).

It's not really cerebral, but it didn't turn into a Michael Bay explosions fest. It's actually very contained in its action, its more of a suspense thriller. The trailers actually make it seem like its a dumber movie than it is (fucking hollywood trailers just keep getting worse and worse).

Johanssen and others are ok, but the script isn't particularly inspired and there are a few really cringeworthy lines. Side characters don't get much development which is a real shame. The biggest thing that disappointed me was actually the music... it was just so damn weak. Like I wanted some sweet retro cyberpunk electro beats, not this generic ambient blandness...

The photography work was pretty great though, some interesting and unusual framings, and of course gorgeous sci-fi eye-candy everywhere. It was even good in 3D, which is rare.
thank you, that's a helpful review to me since it's coming from someone familiar with the source and can speak intelligently on it, along with other elements of the film. I had planned to watch it at some point (I have a 60" 3D TV at home), but with so many movies coming out in the next four months that I wanted to see in theater, I'm kind of conserving my fun money.



I think studio meddling made it have an identity crisis; not enough idiotic action for the lowest common denominator viewer, but also doesn't sufficiently please the critical filmviewer nor satisfy the fanbase entirely... it's kind of caught in the middle of trying to cater a bit to both but reaching neither. I'm pretty sure there will be a director's cut to put back in material and fix some things.
That would be nice, although sometimes they haven't bothered. (I really wish they had released an official Director's Cut of Prometheus and reinserted the deleted/edited scenes, which would have improved the movie tremendously due to the zealous theatrical editing -- they even put out a 3D version and large set of the movie, why not actually have the director's cut?)

I have mixed feelings about studio meddling. On occasion it has seemed to save a movie; at the same time, I'm thinking that part of the debacle that was Suicide Squad was at least in large part due to studio meddling. It's not clear whether studio meddling in Rogue One improved or worsened the movie. And so on. Sure, they are taking the financial risk, but they don't typically operate from a holistic artistic vision or have the talent for that, so they can end up butchering a film in utero.

I still think Scott Pilgrim should have run off with Knives, Fantastic Four (Josh Trank) was a disaster, Hancock could have been a pretty subversive film for the superhero genre if they had had some balls, etc. But again, studio involvement.

Studios really should find directors they trust and then, well, trust them. Plus, know what kind of movie they want to sell, and spec the project / pick the topic based on it. I really hate it when they take one type of source material and make a completely different movie out of it that doesn't serve the source and leaves everyone unhappy because the topic is not mainstream enough to appeal to mainstream, but trying to water it down for mainstream kills the fan base.

In spite of its flaws I enjoyed it, and considering the hard task of adapting such material, I think the director deserves praise for at least making it watchable and not the shit-tier adaptations that have come before it.
Thank you.
 

The Grey Man

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#32
GitS 2017 borrowed a great deal from the original, including characters, setting, plot elements, and even the composition of several frames. Unfortunately it conveyed only the most trite philosophical ideas and I was left wondering if there was any reason for this movie's existence other than to line pockets in return for a vapid and temporary escape from real life (and I feel like GitS is serious enough science fiction that this is a valid complaint). Motokohansson's fretting about identity makes her seem like a child next to her animated counterpart. I would have preferred if it was more of a "Magnificent Seven" style remake that adapted basic concepts and characters from the original and developing them in a new way instead of superficially aping it. More ghost, less shell please. For a studio so concerned with catering to an American audience, setting the film in America seems like an obvious course of action.

Action was cool, but isn't that more or less de rigeur for Hollywood at this point?
 

Jennywocky

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#33
Finally saw this last night.

I have a dubious distinction of, aside from hearing the name for years, not knowing anything really about the manga series or anime movie. So I went in "cold" so to speak.

My thoughts:


- Some really great visuals, and I like especially stuff that is unsettling, kind of how I felt when watching the middle of Spielberg's AI. It's funny how the mind humanizes things that LOOK human even when just machine or a combination of, so then when those bodies don't move predictably, I feel like I am watching a grotesque distortion of reality versus what actually is just normal reality for non-bio entities. It's a cool juxtaposition. (examples: When something more cyber than not takes damage, or when the geisha scuttles around in weird positions...)

Some of those special effects (like the inside of the geisha's face, or when Major drops into something's AI) are pretty intricate, bewildering, and cool. How Kuza manifests and talks is pretty cool too.


- Some okay action sequences. They weren't bad, although the Big Bad at the end (the spider tank) felt kind of like a let-down, and Cutter is pretty lousy in the intimidating factor, as far as evil plan masterminds go. *yawn*


- Characters in the film were pretty bland and indescribable, except for maybe Doc Ouelet and Major's partner Batou. A movie can still be decent without a lot of character exploration (look at the John Wick movies) but they have to have other things going for them, to fill the gaps. Often this is the plot or the world building, and this movie, well....


- The plot was a rehash of every freaking scifi thriller movie out there, it's just been done to death, so you can't rely on it as your best feature or handle it in a hackneyed fashion.

Person becomes pawn of government/agency, they think the agency helped them, they regain their memories / find out the agency actually screwed them over to make them their pawn, person breaks free of system. I guess this is an important motif for Western culture -- rage against the machine that abuses us?

My impression is that the original series + anime film had a more complex less clichéd plot, so this was a major dumbing down. Like, why did they go for this [cliché] angle with other options on the table? Some of the individuals scenes were decent, but not the overall broad plot itself.


- Whitewashing... I had read the Japanese expected us to cast much of the film with white actor to reinvent for a new culture, so the Western social justice warriors seem more the offended parties here I guess. They did try to deal with it in the story, at least, versus just blatantly recasting Johansson without explanation.

Major is actually Asian. it's just her body that looks more Caucasian, and half the main cast is not Asian anyway. I can see an Asian company building some white-bodied templates due to either their version of exotic or simply to appeal to Westerners, although I'd expect there to be Asian full-bodied cyborgs as well. Also, making her not Asian would help her identify less with her old person in case problems came up. So tl;dr character is Asian, actress is not.


Ultimately, while I enjoyed the positive parts of the movie, it's only about average at best and kind of a large misfire considering the wealth of story detail that already existed, along with this being a well-known franchise in other genres besides live-action film. I mean, when you watch a movie, you're stuck with the good and the bad, and the bland soundtrack and plot and thin characters and the like are a real downer. However, I'll probably watch it again, because the stuff I liked, I really liked... and I'll suffer through the rest.

It is definitely inspiring me to go check out the original stuff. I'll try to watch the 1995 anime film soon.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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#34
loved it. full of powerful metaphorical artwork.

not as stale as i remember the anime with its japanese audio that puts me to sleep like nothing. took a while to drag me in though since at first it just seems like a lame cop hunts criminal story.

science fiction ought to be a reflection on humanity, evolution and contemporary struggles relating to it. its not an originality contest. as long as we do ourselves to death, we can't be surprised if sci-fi plots are also being done to death. i love how i draw a picture at age 16 and at age 40 they make a movie with that picture in it. it's archetypes of zeitgeist. some are even perennial. even more powerful. what matters is a proper integration of them. all together in their right place.
 
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