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Reading vs listening

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to read is to replicate and to interpret. we need to do the same in listening. when written we see white and black. we used to see the same in listening but since post modernism has spread through common thought we think in a grey area that is in deed up for interpretation. but through our judgment we conceive irrelevant thoughts to why and reasons of and how. are attention span is not all at fault. we sense and think in correspondence. we regard our senses as we would a true definer of one. its sad as ones distinguished being may define ones definite. as we read we recreate the created in our own conscience and if any thing judge ourselves. the subjected author is not assumed. can we fit so well as we do reading to listening.
 

Amy Winehouse

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Wow, dude I just sent my address to you in a PM send me some of whatever you're smoking O.O that was beautiful.
 

EditorOne

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Well said, but then - I listened. Or did I read? :-) Forums blur the line between reading and listening, don't you think? (Your books don't talk back.)

I stumble across stuff, tuck it away, and sometimes it bobbles up to the surface in time to be useful. So, two related thoughts:

1. The most important part of communicating is listening.

2. The person most likely to get satisfaction from a negotiation is the one who is best at listening.

(Negotiation can be anything. I will offer the young person who smoked pot in his room and needed to do some quick thinking as a good, recent example of a negotiation. I think he would have done even better than just continuing to be tolerated by his parents, who are, after all, somewhat hardwired to be tolerant regarding offspring, had he actively listened to what they were carrying on about.)

Second part: Active listening. Can you listen as well as you read? Yes, but it is a participator sport, not a spectator sport. When you read, you're thinking. When you're listening, you should be thinking, too, specifically thinking up questions that you will then speak out loud. People will elaborate if asked a question. You need to do that by offering back to them what they just said. Example and analysis:

Your friend: "I'm getting a Dodge pickup for my birthday."
You: "That's a truck?"
Your friend: "A leg up on a business, actually. I can use the truck on weekends to do hauling jobs."
You: "You're going to haul things?"
Your friend: "Not just anything. I'm going to go to estate auctions. Somebody's always buying stuff they then find out won't fit in the minivan."
You: "How will they know you're available?"
Your friend: "Magnetic signs that say "I haul cheap," with my cell phone number. I put them on the truck, park it on the entrance to the estate sale, and then walk around checking out neat stuff until the phone rings."
You: "How do you even know how much to charge?"
Your friend: "Good question. Any ideas?"

See, that's just using active listening for no real purpose except having a conversation. But you could, if you found what you learned to be intriguing, now negotiate your way into helping him out sometimes by coming up with a typical INTP process-related way to work out a fair freight charge based on the value of the item, the size of the item and the distance it has to be hauled. Include enough for him getting some help loading up the armoires. Now you have a not-too-demanding weekend gig.

But active listening also helps when it is important for you to understand something from an arrogant or otherwise reluctant conversational partner. When I was a reporter I found it often helped to act stupider than I was, kind of like Peter Falk playing the seemingly dull detective "Columbo" on television. And the problem I'd have wasn't necessarily not understanding, it was getting the person to say what I needed them to explain in their own words, so I could use their words as direct quotes to readers rather than paraphrasing. God's mouth to my reader's ears, in a sense. So if the woman I'm interviewing about her new business servicing other businesses is having a fine time dropping allusions she knows I don't get because I don't know her, I don't know her business, and I'm not one of the in-crowd, OK then. "So," I say, "You're saying you think the business will last at least six months under those conditions?" "No, you dolt, I didn't say that at all. I said it won't even take me six months to make this business sail." "Oh," sez I, "well if it's going to fail, why bother?" "Sail, I said sail, not fail." Now she's getting worried that a hearing-defective Forrest Gump is interviewing her. "Look," sez she, "I'm offering these businesses a service that combines ongoing operational advice with an annual tax preparation. I'm helping them run their business in ways that I know will make sure they don't overlook deductible items and I'm directing them in the act of keeping records that will support their tax return. They'll make more money and pay less in taxes."
"Thank you," sez I, closing the notebook. "It's been a pleasure."
It's been pulling my own teeth without anesthetic. So I lied. But I got the story.
And that's when the chameleon part of INTP can be put to use in active listening.
:)

Holy shit, you had a great post and this could be a useful thread. A lot of times we get into the discomfort zone because people mistake our silence for the act of listening. We're usually not. We're usually thinking, and not necessarily about anything going on in the room with us. When the truth is revealed, we are mildly despised as aloof, self-centered and probably arrogant and condescending. On the occasions when that's a concern, active listening is the answer.
 

Da Blob

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Odd how things flow together on this forum. i just finished writing about pretending to be stupid on a different thread.

Reading is listening with the eyes and one can read faces as well as words.

I guess I am blessed for after the first grade I never had to work to read anything. It was like I had a reader machine in my brain, that read everything for me and told me what it meant. A built-in story teller with access to my imagination has been my prime source of entertainment my entire life.

Active listening is a rare skill, IMO, for it involves a lot of nonverbal auditory cues such as vocalics, tone of voice, facial expressions. I think that those who are successful active listeners hear and organize auditory/communicative input as a type of music.

It is odd, I received a Master's degree in counseling, but the topic of active listening was never addressed in the curriculum. It makes me wonder about the educational industry. Learning to Learn/ Read/ Listen or learning to Question do not seem to be important goals set for students (?). Perhaps the Status Quo has arranged it to be so, planning pre-digested propaganda as a student's sole source of input. Input that can not be questioned...?
 

EditorOne

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"I received a Master's degree in counseling, but the topic of active listening was never addressed in the curriculum."

Nor is it addressed, so far as I can tell, in journalism courses. Or, if it is, none of the graduates were listening when they took that part of the curriculum, because they almost all needed to sit down and have this explained to them sometime during the first two weeks at a real job. Nor was it ever explained to them that the core of the job is finding things out; a lot of them thought they came to work already knowing everything, and I don't mean that in the usual sense of the word of "knowing their craft." Some of them, especially the ones with masters degrees, really came to work thinking it was now their job to set everyone straight with their writing.

Hindsight is wonderful but of course I was probably the same kind of insufferable prick I'm describing here when I was 21 years old, too. :D
 

Felan

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Not sure if active listening is enough, I've found that people often go out their way to avoid talking about what really bothers them. Active listening is essential but I think intuition is pretty key too.

Couple with PersonA and PersonB
PersonA: "You didn't take out the garbage again and I had to do it."
PersonB: "Look it's your birthday, lets not fight."
PersonA: "I make a comment and it is fighting?"
PersonB: "Well you were nagging on me about garbage. I'll try to do better but lets just drop it."
PersonA: "You seem to be a lot better at dropping things then I am."
<< Fight escalates >>

PersonB is frustrated because its just a trivial thing, yeah they forgot but its not a big deal. The problem is usually not the garbage though, it will usually be something else. PersonA is actually bothered by something more serious and sometimes they aren't even conscious of what it is. Perhaps PersonA feels like this is their birthday but PersonB is having all the fun and not trying hard enough to make PersonA feel included. Perhaps PersonA has noticed PersonB's secretary touched PersonB in a way that spoke of familiarity but wasn't not-innocent enough to mention without seeming paranoid. Perhaps PersonA just lost their job and haven't figured out how to PersonB about it.

Even if PersonB takes out the garbage the real problem is still there. The next thing PersonA brings will just reinforce in PersonB's mind that PersonA is just never going to be happy. A rift forms between them and after many repeations of failing to address the core problems things just seem too distant to mend, or rather be worth the effort of mending.

Often I think people fall into ruts too. This is more behavior than communication but the latter does play a part in it. PersonA might have mocked PersonB's intelligence once and everyone got a laugh out of it and it becomes a sort of running joke. PersonB might feel a strain on the relationship because of this running joke, but waits too long to mention it and eventually mentioning it would feel weak or lame. The frustration of that unaddressed issue will likely bubble up elsewhere in a way that even if PersonA addresses won't address the real issue. If PersonB brings it up it might be entrenched enough that PersonA minimalizes it, which is more strain. If PersonA takes it seriously it can be easy to slip into the rut of that joke, particularly in a group where it is established, and even against the wishes of PersonA themself.

It is amazing how many people seem to think that they are speaking clearly and what they want is obvious. It is rarely true. Even more amazing is that in spite of this apparently crippling weakness, people still manage to stumble along well enough that it doesn't matter too much.
 
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