Putting the Boot In !

[Perseus]

Preferred method (what you have been observed to do in practice?):

Faults. Which apply to you mostly (requires putting the boot on the other foot):

1) May be cuttingly derisive and sarcastic towards others
2) May be extremely caustic and insulting to others
3) A tendency to be arrogant or boastful, or to demean those who cannot see the same answers
4) May take every decision not made in agreement with their beliefs as a personal rejection
5) May become more and more rigid in their judgements and expectations of people (also, the don't listen to him syndrome)
6) May develop strong judgments that are difficult to unseed against people who they perceive have been oppressive or suppressive to them
7) May become morose or even antagonistic (or even physically assault an adversary) in situations offering little promise of advantage or the possibility to “do something.”

If you choose your ideal by answering a test question, you just might get a different result with what is observed by others of your behaviour. I am ionterested in the Others perception.

Be careful about your reply. I am never sarcastic so (1) cannot apply for me. I not appear sarcastic either as I simply don't really understand it.

I don't demean in the sense of a personal attack. The issue is what counts rather than the person who says it, so (3) is ruled out for me. The others are misguided so (4) is out as well. (6) is problematical, but I am never that sure?

 

[Perseus]

Perhaps, I could word this differently, by using an example.

The Council offical turns up at your doorstep and orders you to chop down your hedge because it is blocking the highway (a ridculous lie, but in this case he is really serious).

Or you carefully prepared wildlife garden, which the Council offical orders you to spray and remove because the neighbour does not like the weeds. Or the Slow Worms which she thinks are snakes (being from the concrete city where they do not have such things).

Do you.

1) deride his orders, perhaps in a sarcastic manner
2) reply caustically, which he may regard as an insult (treat the idea with contempt)
3) demean the complainant that caused the problem
4) think you have been rejected as a person because you think the comments are from malice
5) don't bother to even listen
6) make a mental note that the officials and complainants are both enemies
7) punch the official in the face or otherwise intimidate him in what way will be most amusing.

or being a Goddess

8) regard the whole episode as a storyline for the book you are never going to write, and choose to analyse the characters.

Meanwhile the characters are:

OPPOSITION, the CONSERVATIVES

Complainant: Mouse (ISFJ)
Decision-making Official: Bull (ESFJ)
Calling Official 1: Rat (ISFJ/ISTJ)
Calling Official 2: Horse (ESFJ)
Oversee Arbiter Official: Wolf (ENFJ)
Mobster 1: Dog (ISTJ)
Mobster 2: Camel (ESFJ variant)
Mobster 3: Beaver (ENFJ)

HOME TEAM, The BOHEMIANS or LIBERALS:

You: Phoenix (INFP/INTP)
Neighbour 1: Cat (ISFP)
Neighbour 2: Panda (ISTP variant)
Neighbour 3: Snake (ENTP)

REFEREE:

Police: Pig (ISFP/ISTP)

Second Police: Bull (ESFJ)

This is how World War III originally started. It was a Mouse that Roared!

 

[Perseus]

PS: Try to choose an example of what happened in real life, rather than your ideal choice, having had time to think it over.

 

[Ogion]

To some official i will probably be friendly and reserved, asking what exactly he wants, try to get off with as little unfriendliness as possible (for that he doesn't think of something else to harass me) and then get him off. Then i'd probably check, which of all of this really is necessary and legal, and then doing the minimal. Although it may sound that way, but it is not obedience. It is just a strategy to give him as little leverage as possible. Inwards i may call him what i want, but there is no sense in insulting him (if he is in any position to harm me later). I do get the same benefit from insulting him just in imagination, while it has less negative sides...

Hope that answered it (and didn't waste your effort).

Ogion

P.S.: WW3?

 

[Perseus]

Thanks for the answer Ogion. It does not always (and rarely) works that way.

Let us say that they have violated your integrity and you are annoyed, past the reasonable stage.

How do you react? (or have reacted in the past). They think (the bureaucrats) they are right and are not going to stop. I have put your reply down as a (5) veering to (6). Not listening: a common response (called the Blockhead). This goes under the line of a proper test (not the useless tests I have seen) to get at the Keirsey-style character.

I don't know the answers off-hand. I forgot to make a note. I will have to look them up again.

 

[Ogion]

Hm, you want to know my behaviour in an extreme case?
Let's for the moment just consider that the other person is no official, cause there i probably won't show my normal behaviour, but really just smoe Pokerface.
I don't know exactly, i'd probably become much louder (I'm a big person, have big lungs, and am quite strong, so probably that would come naturally). I have no idea if i am a good insulter, but due to little practise probably not. And i don't think i'd become violent, i never were.
It is hard to answer really, because i don't think i were in some situation before. I was harassed before, in school i was the "The 'strong' ones harass him to show of"-boy (If that can be called a category ), but even if they were really trying i never were really bothered. I mean, sure, annoyed, but i didn't think it was worth the effort to react in some way. And not reacting dissolved their interest in harassing me (at least for that moment) quickly.

Ogion

 

[Perseus]

It is a bit difficult Anger seems to screw up the whole personality type theory. Intuition should justify the findings, but it is very complicated. On the face of it, your (Ogion) reaction seems to meet the criteria of (ENFJ) (ISFP) (perhaps ENFP =8).

But this could be a once-off transaction.

See the Anger thread, which I did not look at, or else I would have posted the first message on that thread. It does seem INTPs incite and receive of what I have always called the Volcano (which is OK). But sometimes there is the Shadow eruption which is not OK. This is from the Dark Star (National Socialism).

 

[Ogion]

Well, anger is an emotion, and when it becomes overly strong it probably controls the behaviour. And since Emotions are not the whole personality, other parts of it get suppressed.
As i said in my Emotions-thread, i seem to have a very high threshold for emotional response/reaction (or the threshold is normal, but the emotions are just less strong; it is the same), and so i don't have much experience with emotional response. I never acted out of rage or anger, so i honestly don't know, which behaviour i would show. The only times i really had emotional responses and reactions were in quarrels with my parents. I think that is probably because my parents are people whom i care about, in opposite to for example the official you mentioned.
So perhaps i am not a good person to analyze emotional behaviour with...

Ogion

 

[Perseus]

It is a bit unusual for me, as I had (and still have got) a recent head injury that suppressed my Thinking. I became aware of a Feeling/Emotional world that only previously existed when I was near paralytic drunk.

Not sure I could cope with the upsurge of emotional stuff which is natural for other people, especially E* S* types.

The female of the race, do this, statistically, more akin to the Feeling than the Thinking. These types are dangerous.

 

[Ogion]

Well, i of course don't know the feeling types internally, but if they really rely mostly on their emotions, they probably would call Thinkingtypes dangerouus (I certainly regard relying on Emotions as 'dangerous', so...)

Ogion

 

[loveofreason]

My response would be an amalgam of 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6, followed finally by 8.

I'm actually basing this on an experience a while back with my former home. I had taken great delight in neglecting it back to a state of endemic heathland. Prior to selling I had real estate agent's appraisals that could not see the beauty nor value in wildflowers, and then was given a fire abatement order to clear the vegetation.

I was not pleased and ran through suppressed variants of the options, kept the sarcasm and caustic comebacks silent in my mind or so over their heads that the social game was not upset ("A fire hazard, oh really?" "It would sell better with a garden? Right."), quietly belittled real estate and local government, felt offended that mainstream society just didn't 'get' me or appreciate nature, put them in my temporary "hostile, handle with caution" file, pretended to be cheerful then sulked in solitude and finally decided the offense accrued deserved the best rebuttal I could muster - it would be turned into an article.

Actually the need to analyse and write about the incident was probably directly proportional to the degree to which natural responses 1 through 7 were repressed . The pen is the best revenge, and it offers a fantastic learning opportunity. Hooray for accidental antagonists.

Do I get to be Goddess of Things That Don't Matter?

 

[Perseus]

Interesting message Love of Reason.

In an amost identical incident, I reacted with what was interpreted as (2). I can see now why it was regarded as "acid bath murderer" stuff = caustic, but it would never have occurred to me at the time. I considered it an understatement. They got so frightened that they made a Police complaint, and then things escalated to attempted murder (of me). Christ, I only asked a question !?

PS: My rebuttal turned into an article, a decision to call a Scrutiny Committee at the Local Council, overturned by the Tories, threats and intimidation. Also false accusations of vandalism, theft, plus other rotten things from the National Socialists.

The Goddess alternative occurred after a night's sleep. It might be the rational one, but I am only borderline rational.

 

[Ogion]

*Ogion throws himself to the ground, praying for hours to the "dangerous female of the race" of the Goddesses of "Things that Don'T Matter", for that he himself in the future might crush his enemies with just the pen and a paper (or rather his computer and the Internet)!!
Will he now be crushed himself upon his heresy?



Ogion

 

[Perseus]

*Ogion throws himself to the ground, praying for hours to the "dangerous female of the race" of the Goddesses of "Things that Don'T Matter", for that he himself in the future might crush his enemies with just the pen and a paper (or rather his computer and the Internet)!!
Will he now be crushed himself upon his heresy?



Ogion

It goes a long way, the pen and the Internet, but violence and intimidation usually wins out.

 

[Jesin]

Do I get to be Goddess of Things That Don't Matter?

But that would give you dominion over everything in the Universe!

 

[Perseus]

But that would give you dominion over everything in the Universe!

You would be just a seventh level magician (Seven Steps to Satan) of your particular animal type. A Petit God.

 

[loveofreason]

Interesting message Love of Reason.

In an amost identical incident, I reacted with what was interpreted as (2). I can see now why it was regarded as "acid bath murderer" stuff = caustic, but it would never have occurred to me at the time. I considered it an understatement. They got so frightened that they made a Police complaint, and then things escalated to attempted murder (of me). Christ, I only asked a question !?

PS: My rebuttal turned into an article, a decision to call a Scrutiny Committee at the Local Council, overturned by the Tories, threats and intimidation. Also false accusations of vandalism, theft, plus other rotten things from the National Socialists.

The Goddess alternative occurred after a night's sleep. It might be the rational one, but I am only borderline rational.

I've learned to bite my caustic tongue. I'm even cautious now with the sarcasm. Not that it's a happy situation. I felt so much healthier with a complete disregard for the consequences of my comments.

*Ogion throws himself to the ground, praying for hours to the "dangerous female of the race" of the Goddesses of "Things that Don'T Matter", for that he himself in the future might crush his enemies with just the pen and a paper (or rather his computer and the Internet)!!
Will he now be crushed himself upon his heresy?



Ogion

Heretic?!

I'm in need of an acolyte... prepare the burnt offerings and supplicate!

But that would give you dominion over everything in the Universe!

You would be just a seventh level magician (Seven Steps to Satan) of your particular animal type. A Petit God.

I'd settle for my own small planet, not too fussy so long as it's warm, vegetated and out of the way.

 

[Perseus]

In Keirsey (Perseus adaptation), the Sensors are the Earthlings and all the Intuitives are introspective aliens. Some of the Earthlings do not believe in aliens, hence a few problems .....

Abduction is unethical. Earthlings should remains as they are. They get spooked.

 

[Jordan~]

Does anyone else think Perseus's avatar is appropriately odd? I just look at it and think, "Yep." In my mind, Persus is that kettle/gnome/native american thing.

 

[Perseus]

It looks more like a Hawk (INTJ) than a Eagle (INTP).

 

[Jordan~]

Looks like a kettle to me.

 

[Ogion]

Well, it is as strange as his posts sometimes (no offence intended, just an observation from my point of view).
But i wouldn't really call it native american...You know, in Germany we have these (ugly, really ugly) "Gartenzwerge" and they are quite old and, did i say it?, ugly.

Ogion

 

[Jordan~]

Would "gartenzwerge" be "garden gnome"?

 

[Ogion]

Yep, sorry, forgot to explain why i linked to the german wikipedia. There were just more images there
(By the way. On Wikipedia there is on the left a list of languages. When you are in some article, and want to read about it in another language you can look on the left and click on that language, that will bring you to the article on that topic in the other language, if available...very useful)

Ogion

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

I would have to say i see the emotions i express would resemble an explosion. I often overlook anyones attempts to make me angry. Things that most people would find annoying or would anger someone don't have much effect on me. The things that anger me are often little small annoyances or when people i care about do stupid things i told them not to. I would describe my temper as pretty fierce, its not very often i get mad but the emotions are strong.
There are different ways i handle my anger, this often is decided by what got me angry. If someone has insulted my intelligence i will get extremely spiteful with my words and will attempt to insinuate the person is stupid because they don't recognize my intelligence. Under more calm circumstances where im not as angry i more or less space out and go over the situation in my head over and over thinking of possible things i could say or do, also any reasoning the person might have to act the way they are. Ive never gotten angry to the point i have started a physical confrontation but i have been in plenty since i give the impression i dont care about what others are angry about....which i honestly dont care about...anger is a sad display of emotion in my opinion.

Hmmmm...after reviewing what ive written i think i should have went back and rewritten the whole thing...lol. I almost dont even want to post this rambling but i will, purely in the hopes it will start a good conversation lol.

 

[Perseus]

Its a kettle of the Tilicum

 

[Perseus]

I would have to say i see the emotions i express would resemble an explosion. I often overlook anyones attempts to make me angry. never gotten angry to the point i have started a physical confrontation but i have been in plenty since i give the impression i dont care about what others are angry about....which i honestly dont care about...anger is a sad display of emotion in my opinion.

Hmmmm...after reviewing what ive written i think i should have went back and rewritten the whole thing...lol. I almost dont even want to post this rambling but i will, purely in the hopes it will start a good conversation lol.

I have been attacked by people I did not even notice. I think the very fact that I ignored them stimulated their attack.

 

[Jordan~]

I would have to say i see the emotions i express would resemble an explosion. I often overlook anyones attempts to make me angry. Things that most people would find annoying or would anger someone don't have much effect on me. The things that anger me are often little small annoyances or when people i care about do stupid things i told them not to. I would describe my temper as pretty fierce, its not very often i get mad but the emotions are strong.
There are different ways i handle my anger, this often is decided by what got me angry. If someone has insulted my intelligence i will get extremely spiteful with my words and will attempt to insinuate the person is stupid because they don't recognize my intelligence. Under more calm circumstances where im not as angry i more or less space out and go over the situation in my head over and over thinking of possible things i could say or do, also any reasoning the person might have to act the way they are. Ive never gotten angry to the point i have started a physical confrontation but i have been in plenty since i give the impression i dont care about what others are angry about....which i honestly dont care about...anger is a sad display of emotion in my opinion.

Hmmmm...after reviewing what ive written i think i should have went back and rewritten the whole thing...lol. I almost dont even want to post this rambling but i will, purely in the hopes it will start a good conversation lol.

I recognise this, definitely. Anger is my primary weakness. The thing is, even once I'm very angry I try to conceal it, and just give people discouraging signs (my temper is legendary). Those who carry on, I attempt to ignore and tolerate, but when it gets too much, I explode. I'll have an outburst at the person, scream something venomous at them, then stomp off and loudly point out their flaws to whoever I'm talking to. It's pretty embarassing.
It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be, but I used to be an arrogant little ****. It's a good thing I'm big, or I would have ended up with a black eye a few times...

 

[Perseus]

Eysenck noted how the results were similar to the four ancient temperaments.

• High N, High E = Choleric
• High N, Low E = Melancholic (also called "Melancholy"/pl. "-ies")
• Low N, High E = Sanguine
• Low N, Low E = Phlegmatic

If this theory is correct, if we introvert our anger, we become melancholic. I just get high, become less reasonable (less rational) and regress to idealism and become more and more choleric, and introverted, high and stressed out.

 

[Perseus]

I get angry when my core values are attacked with a vengeance.

Then I just rise above such unfortunate circumstances.