How do any local INTP feel about Piggy's role in Lord of the Flies (i.e, his ultimate fate)?
I don't even know what or whom you are referring. Who the fuck calls himself or a character in whatever Piggy. And, Lord of the flies? Do you play games that are intended for babies/kids? What is this shit?
..And what the fuck is "local INTP"?
And "ultimate fate"? Do you mean destiny? What the fuck is ultimate fate? The combination has such broad possible representation.
Damn your one sentenced thread confuses me.
So to answer your question: I feel confused. But I don't think I'm a local INTP; I don't even know what the fuck that means.
Piggy was naive, but what you you expect from a little boy? For example he asked his friend (Ralph) not to call him Piggy. He could have kept quiet as his friend slipped up by using that name in public. Once public, Jack the (ExTJ?) jumped on this chance to belittle him. These are little boys.How do any local INTP feel about Piggy's role in Lord of the Flies (i.e, his ultimate fate)?
Answer: It's a feeling response. It's done for expression.If you don't know what he's talking about, why reply?
Did Jack deserve more respect? Jack was the aggressive one and got what he wanted. But Ralph and Piggy had the right idea: Keep the fire going and they could be rescued. Jack ignored that and let the fire go out thereby muffing their rescue chance. If only Jack had paid attention, but he didn't.It was well deserved. He lacked a certain type of aggression, charisma, and pragmatism that must be coupled with his otherwise sensible philosophy in order for it to be successful. Ralph would have been capable of this in partnership with Piggy, yet Ralph ultimately led to Piggy's demise through his lack of maturity and flexibility in logical approach. Demerits? Really?
<-fanboy of Jack
Piggy was naive, but what you you expect from a little boy? For example he asked his friend (Ralph) not to call him Piggy. He could have kept quiet as his friend slipped up by using that name in public. Once public, Jack the (ExTJ?) jumped on this chance to belittle him. These are little boys.
But maybe I miss the point. We are supposed to figure out the steps that went wrong.
Well, actually that's not how the world works at all, not to say that your interpretation of the book is invalid.With Piggy, and to a lesser extent Ralph, symbolizing that intellect and democracy will always fall to physical strength, sexual prowess, and brutal savagery; Jack's strengths.
Jack, despite hit psychotic tendencies, offered more freedom; not through his careless, repressive, and arguably regressive ideology, but because he offered an alternative which increased the suite of choices available to the other members. It was when the vote to determine leadership was held (oh, the pitfalls of democracy) that a division among the group was obvious and could be exploited. It was therefore up to elected leader Ralph, especially when the adherence to routine and discipline began to falter, to bridge that gap in a more aggressively diplomatic manner. It was ultimately a failure on Ralph's part to identify the attributes of the group members and orchestrate an effective system using what was available.Did Jack deserve more respect? Jack was the aggressive one and got what he wanted. But Ralph and Piggy had the right idea: Keep the fire going and they could be rescued. Jack ignored that and let the fire go out thereby muffing their rescue chance. If only Jack had paid attention, but he didn't.
Fascinating post Solitare.
Well, actually that's not how the world works at all, not to say that your interpretation of the book is invalid.
Well said. These were boys whom we can look at to find what goes wrong with adults who have more complex situations.I think the point of LOTF was something along the lines of childhood behavior being merely an exaggerated mirror of adult behavior...
Then intellect and democracy have to have something done so they don't ALWAYS fall. Each has something the other doesn't. As long as people are isolated units, they can't share ... and sharing is the solution.With Piggy, and to a lesser extent Ralph, symbolizing that intellect and democracy will always fall to physical strength, sexual prowess, and brutal savagery; Jack's strengths.
His inability to read Jack and Ralph we can call deficient. But must we call his ideas repellent just because the rest of him might have been? Perhaps Piggy was meant to be repellent so we'd see what happens to reason when it isn't backed up by enough force???Aside from that, I found Piggy to be a rather repelling character. Preachy, somewhat cowardly, frail, and physically unattractive. His comeuppance was inevitable, being as emasculated by civilization as he was.
This is speculation, but my guess is Jack didn't think about that. I don't recall him exploding when the rescue did come. I believe he just concentrated on his immediate situation and his chance for some days of glory. Jack could have been made even more evil and then we'd need an even stronger Ralph.*Edit @BigApplePi I think Jack's intention all along was to avoid being rescued. Hence, his failure to light the signal fire.
What jack would do? Don't tempt meNow, feel free to respond, but try not to go stomping off again with "You're an idiot and I'm done with this.". Isn't that what Jack would do?
Jack offered more freedom? Maybe a fun alternative but not the freedom of rescue. I don't know about his ideology but who could have predicted what it would lead to (bad things) or that his refusal to honor Ralph's directive would lead to the fire going out. Ralph was lax in realizing Jack had other interests important enough to him to neglect the rescue interest.Jack, despite hit psychotic tendencies, offered more freedom; not through his careless, repressive, and arguably regressive ideology, but because he offered an alternative which increased the suite of choices available to the other members. It was when the vote to determine leadership was held (oh, the pitfalls of democracy) that a division among the group was obvious and could be exploited. It was therefore up to elected leader Ralph, especially when the adherence to routine and discipline began to falter, to bridge that gap in a more aggressively diplomatic manner. It was ultimately a failure on Ralph's part to identify the attributes of the group members and orchestrate an effective system using what was available.
Such a union would have realistically been the only chance of survival outside of random discovery as both Ralph and Jack were lax, albeit in different ways and with different motivations.
If only Simon were elected leader
Ah, but rescue was never a guarantee, even with a fire. Rescue also doesn't necessarily imply a greater freedom (is the grass really greener?), and indeed most of the group seems to have felt the same in time. I assume it depends on one's definition of freedom.Jack offered more freedom? Maybe a fun alternative but not the freedom of rescue. I don't know about his ideology but who could have predicted what it would lead to (bad things) or that his refusal to honor Ralph's directive would lead to the fire going out. Ralph was lax in realizing Jack had other interests important enough to him to neglect the rescue interest.
You mean going hunting was very important to Jack. He was able to seduce half the group. There was a conflict between Jack and Ralph right from the beginning but I've forgotten how that was expressed. (I saw the film.) Reason (Ralph) said one should keep all options open: build a fire AND hunt. Doing both weakens the resolve of either.Ah, but rescue was never a guarantee, even with a fire. Rescue also doesn't necessarily imply a greater freedom (is the grass really greener?), and indeed most of the group seems to have felt the same in time. I assume it depends on one's definition of freedom.
You mean going hunting was very important to Jack. He was able to seduce half the group. There was a conflict between Jack and Ralph right from the beginning but I've forgotten how that was expressed. (I saw the film.) Reason (Ralph) said one should keep all options open: build a fire AND hunt. Doing both weakens the resolve of either.