Perspectives on INTP

[Beat Mango]

Ok this is similar to XIII's thread about how we're perceived by other types. I'm come to be a big fan recently of epistemological perspectivism, which is basically the idea that there are a whole bunch of ways of looking at truth, each offering its own validity, albeit with varying degrees of coherence. Wikpedia defines it: Perspectivism is the philosophical view developed by Friedrich Nietzsche that all ideations take place from particular perspectives.

Psychology, for example, is one such perspective, with MBTI one aspect of it. So I was thinking, what are some other perspectives of the INTP? There was one covered in the thread about "Old Souls": to them, INTPs are old souls who have been around the block a few times and are world weary etc. I thought that was a very interesting perspective. What are some others? I think to other people with different perspectives, INTPs can be people who are:

- arrogant
- reserved
- fascinating
- think too much
- indecisive
- all over the place
- cynical
- brilliant
- boring
- eccentric
- undisciplined
- hard on themselves
- had neglecting parents and maladapted


Any other possible perspectives on the INTP?

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

is there a difference between Weird and Eccentric would you say? presumably Weird would be less socially tolerable.

and...

- unfeeling

 

[Beat Mango]

Yeah I would say there's a difference. Eccentric has positive connotations, weird doesn't.

Unfeeling to some people for sure, or from a psychologist's perspective, maybe someone low on emotional intelligence.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

Yeah I would say there's a difference. Eccentric has positive connotations, weird doesn't.

Unfeeling to some people for sure, or from a psychologist's perspective, maybe someone low on emotional intelligence.

aha, precise...

i don't feel unemotional and callous but others see me that way. i feel quite a lot and hate just cold logic and do prefer purely unfounded actions. maybe INFP

 

[ArcusDog]

- cold
- ambiguous
- withdrawn
- wasted talent/potential
- unresponsive
- emotionally immature
- spock-like (I like this one, lol)

 

[Razare]

Spock an the Vulcan race are like remodels for INTP's.

- wasted talent/potential

Yep, that sums me up real well.

This is a matter of presentation rather than skill. An INTP can walk into a job interview and perform horribly at the interview but be more skilled at the job than any other candidate. The best skill in society is salesmanship of yourself, something an INTP innately lacks.

 

[snowqueen]

Banana - if you are really going to try to take a different epistemological perspective then you have to move away from your psychological vocabulary - 'arrogant' 'maladapted' etc are still epistemologically psychological.

In some ways I think Fleur's story thread is actually a completely different epistemology of INTPness.

Another epistemological perspective would be for example, neuroscientific - anyone know enough about it to venture an opinion?

There is also a Tibetan buddhist perspective of what we call 'personality' with 5 types and I would say we fall into the Vajra family:


The
vajra family is named after the vajra sceptre, the invincible, all-defeating weapon of Indra. It has five hard, sharp prongs, representing mastery over the five main mind poisons (ignorance, desire, hostility, pride and jealousy). Vajra types have a potentially sharp intellect, which can analyse clearly and logically the problems of mind and which knows how to view situations from many varying perspectives. Their problem is anger, which manifests when the trenchant intellect is immature and subject to over-rigidity. This character is symbolised by water, which is dangerous and turbulent when troubled yet mirror-like, clear and transparent when calm. The enlightened wisdom which crowns this family is the mirror-like primordial wisdom. Its direction is the East. It is the freshness and lucidity of dawn. Its colour is white, sometimes blue. The family is symbolised by the vajra sceptre.

For a perspective to be epistemologically different it needs a completely different way of organising knowledge.

For example, in psychiatric epistemology, hearing voices is a sign of psychosis, in the 17th century Britain it was a sign of possession by the Devil, in some cultures it's a sign of shamanism etc

(sorry but this is kind of my 'specialist subject') So start with the belief system and work from there. If you believe humans are descended from aliens, then who are the INTP? Razare thinks Vulcan - If so, Face is Q!

 

[Waterstiller]

Along with "spock-like" I'd like to add "Eeyoreish".

This character is symbolised by water, which is dangerous and turbulent when troubled yet mirror-like, clear and transparent when calm.

<----- :P

 

[Concojones]

Wasted talent/potential:

Yep, that sums me up real well.

This is a matter of presentation rather than skill. An INTP can walk into a job interview and perform horribly at the interview but be more skilled at the job than any other candidate. The best skill in society is salesmanship of yourself, something an INTP innately lacks.

Bullshit.
OK, we don't like to brag about ourselves. Still you can ace a job interview with no bragging. What has worked for me is let the resume brag for me (by putting a lot of effort into it, and slightly exaggerating accomplishments). In the interview itself I show my (genuine) burning motivation to have an impact (we INTPs are intrinsically motivated people right?) and it has worked amazingly well so far. Before I did that, I wasn't so successful in job interviews. I could elaborate, but we're digressing...

 

[Felan]

Some things people have said about me:
interesting
unique perspective
cockoo
understanding
perceptive
full of good ideas
calming
master of TMI (too much information)
software I write are durable, flexible, and easy to build on (huge plus)

I know from a work perspective I seem to have a knack for understanding what the business people really want and turning that into code. As opposed to many who get stuck on what they think the business wants.

Some traits I think I have:
fearless in sharing ideas
strategic thinking
procrastinator
alone even when surrounded by people

I agree with CocoJones about the interview thing. I actually interview really well. Passion for my work burns brightly in me.

 

[Waterstiller]

If I get an interview, I usually get the job. Employers <3 me. I've been too afraid to try lately though.

 

[Concojones]

Good point, Felan: 'understanding'! If there's one thing we do exceedingly well, it's probably that! Including understanding people, although we might have to do some extra effort to make that obvious to other people.

 

[spockguy]

- cold
- ambiguous
- withdrawn
- wasted talent/potential
- unresponsive
- emotionally immature
- spock-like (I like this one, lol)

I like that one as well

 

[Concojones]

you gotta be kidding me

 

[Red Mage]

(we INTPs are intrinsically motivated people right?)

Bullshit.

 

[cheese]

Bullshit.

I second, third and fourth that. Lazily of course.

 

[Ermine]

I think you're being a bit too negative, Banana Mango. Perhaps I'm just surrounded by nice flattering people but I've heard that I'm
creative
problem solver
understanding
great listener
articulate
an expert
leader (?? Where did that come from?)
funny
eccentric
spontaneous
open minded
witty
"scary, like take over the world smart"
analytical
artistic
adaptive
good student (always learning)

I'm not totally sure about all these, but I think it's my overanalytical Ti cynic.

 

[Beat Mango]

Snowqueen - with "arrogant' though, I was told that by a girl who liked me, so how is that psychological? I think it's the perspective of someone who expects everyone to small-talk and be sociable. In her world-view, people who don't are deliberately withholding it and therefore arrogant.

I think you're being a bit too negative, Banana Mango.

Yeah that's another one I get a lot...

Thinking about more positive ones, I've got "willing to try things" (sport context), "good ideas, passionate" (music context).

 

[FacetiousPersona]

Razare thinks Vulcan - If so, Face is Q!

Q's a good character!


For our current vocabulary, I think we require the multiple definitions for each word we presently have. This may complicate communication when you are not aware of which definition the other individual is using, but, ideally, you are and this benefits the exchange overall.

I typically grasp the usage of a word via the context, which requires the differing definitions to be noticeably different and for me to have the essential knowledge. If the differences of two definitions for one word are sufficiently separate, you should notice the differences and be aware which one is being used.

People seem to have become of building upon words instead of establishing new terms. This expands the language, yes, but perhaps the depth is less when you are only adding new definitions for present words. Multiple definitions for words are good while are vocabulary is limited in terms, though.

We have to wait until our literal English language to develop further for us to expres ourselves formally to a higher extent, yet it is possible for us to establish personal, subjective meanings to assist our expression until this occurs. The expansion of a language is positive when it allows deeper, more varied articulation, plus it allows us to have a higher number of tools to utilize to construct our work (thoughts or literature).

I think this is a reason for the development of slang and people's own interpretation of words. They only have to share the meaning with another person and it potentially becomes valid word for expression between the individuals aware of it. It only takes the knowledge of this new definition for it to possibly become integrated into people's vocabulary, not the formal acceptance of it to academia.

 

[secretsmile]

Hilarious
Sarcastic
Silly
"Cool"
Elitist (moreso than 'arrogant')
Well-rounded
Easygoing/laidback/calm
Pleasant
Passionate
Loyal
Individualistic
Moody
Spontaneous
Open to new experiences
Fun
Very GIVING............in bed. hahahaha

All I can think of for now...

 

[echoplex]

I think a good one would be: solitary truth-seeker.

We can also be somewhat psychedelic, although that may fit ENTP better.

I also think 'misfit' would apply to many INTPs, as I think many of us have felt that way much of our lives, living in an SJ world.

So, collectively, we are the island of psychedelic misfit truth-seeking toys. We'll probably never make it to Santa's sleigh; which is good. Screw that fat bastard and his double-checking of lists.

 

[snowqueen]

Snowqueen - with "arrogant' though, I was told that by a girl who liked me, so how is that psychological? I think it's the perspective of someone who expects everyone to small-talk and be sociable. In her world-view, people who don't are deliberately withholding it and therefore arrogant.

Where do you think she got that idea and vocabulary from (where do we all get it from?)

Q's a good character!

I know!

For our current vocabulary, I think we require the multiple definitions for each word we presently have. This may complicate communication when you are not aware of which definition the other individual is using, but, ideally, you are and this benefits the exchange overall.

I typically grasp the usage of a word via the context, which requires the differing definitions to be noticeably different and for me to have the essential knowledge. If the differences of two definitions for one word are sufficiently separate, you should notice the differences and be aware which one is being used.

People seem to have become of building upon words instead of establishing new terms. This expands the language, yes, but perhaps the depth is less when you are only adding new definitions for present words. Multiple definitions for words are good while are vocabulary is limited in terms, though.

We have to wait until our literal English language to develop further for us to expres ourselves formally to a higher extent, yet it is possible for us to establish personal, subjective meanings to assist our expression until this occurs. The expansion of a language is positive when it allows deeper, more varied articulation, plus it allows us to have a higher number of tools to utilize to construct our work (thoughts or literature).

I think this is a reason for the development of slang and people's own interpretation of words. They only have to share the meaning with another person and it potentially becomes valid word for expression between the individuals aware of it. It only takes the knowledge of this new definition for it to possibly become integrated into people's vocabulary, not the formal acceptance of it to academia.

Yes I find slang and small-scale language games fascinating because they do allow different perspectives and are a form of taking control of discourse - nicely subversive.

 

[ArcusDog]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the good stuff...

- Funny (those who actually get the jokes)
- Brilliant (I doubt this is actually true though)
- Talented (but I need to practice)
- Good Friend
- Very Interesting (and they only know about 10% of me)
- Easy Going
- Unique
- Sexy (I have no idea where they got that from)
- Quick Study

 

[Carnap]

Oh I'd give anything to have one of my professors tell me I'm wasting my huge potential like they did in the US. Here I just get "your paper wasn't good". Well, you bastard, I did it two hours before class ! Really is a blow to the ego to hear only negative comments.

I guess I've heard

weird
stubborn
dry
quiet
lazy
arrogant
pretentious
unsure of myself

 

[ArcusDog]

I wonder sometimes if people maybe ascribe the characteristics to me that either they want to, based on their own personality, or perhaps what I subconsciously mirror back at them (chameleon). Sometimes people say things about me that are pretty far off the mark and they state them as though they were fact. Just a thought.

 

[Beat Mango]

I wonder sometimes if people maybe ascribe the characteristics to me that either they want to, based on their own personality, or perhaps what I subconsciously mirror back at them (chameleon). Sometimes people say things about me that are pretty far off the mark and they state them as though they were fact. Just a thought.

Well yes, whatever someone says or thinks says as much about them as it does about what they're referring to (does that make sense? I found that hard to put in words)

 

[ArcusDog]

Yeah, that made sense. Had to read it twice though :P

What I'm wondering though, is if it is perhaps more common for others to "project" when dealing with INTP's, because of our tendency to be mirror-like.

 

[Beat Mango]

Yeah, that made sense. Had to read it twice though :P

What I'm wondering though, is if it is perhaps more common for others to "project" when dealing with INTP's, because of our tendency to be mirror-like.

Yeah I think so...

 

[Concojones]

- Funny (those who actually get the jokes)

"those who actually get the jokes"


And then an off-tangent:

Originally Posted by Concojones
(we INTPs are intrinsically motivated people right?)

Bullshit.

I wasn't implying that every INTP has actually found this vocation in life. Rather that a fancy title/salary alone aren't enough to motivate our type. It's certainly true for me, and I've got a hunch it's true for INTPs in general. Feel free to correct me if you think I am mistaken

 

[snowqueen]

"those who actually get the jokes"


And then an off-tangent:

I wasn't implying that every INTP has actually found this vocation in life. Rather that a fancy title/salary alone aren't enough to motivate our type. It's certainly true for me, and I've got a hunch it's true for INTPs in general. Feel free to correct me if you think I am mistaken

oh you meant intrinsically as opposed to extrinsically motivated? Yes I think predominantly but there still needs to be some kind of pull from outside ourselves from somewhere in the environment even if that is only something as abstract as an idea we read in a book.

 

[ArcusDog]

a fancy title/salary alone aren't enough to motivate our type

I'll agree with that. I often think that if only I were motivated by money I might actually be really successful. And if only I were motivated by success, I might then have a lot of money.

 

[Beat Mango]

I just had a thought that for us INTPs, our minds move quicker than normal and we are able to observe the world as it unfolding rather than just participating and reacting.

 

[snowqueen]

I just had a thought that for us INTPs, our minds move quicker than normal and we are able to observe the world as it unfolding rather than just participating and reacting.

Or we'd like to think so You've got an IQ of 170 or something ridiculous so I suspect that speed might be personal to you rather than universal to INTPs!!

 

[Ermine]

^ Nah, I think that's a very relative statement. With a lot of people, that statement holds true. However, I'm also just barely keeping up with other people.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i would have to agree that i am not extrinsically motivated by much. having money or popularity or a hot-shot job has never been a big deal to me. my interests are about the only thing that motivate me: my interest in learning about physics or philosophy have caused me to read more on those subjects then i ever have for anything during school, and neither of them will help me "achieve greatness" by societies standard.

as far as how people have seen me, i've been compared to the character House from the show "House" and Will Hunting from "Good Will Hunting" more then once, and people often ask me why i have to question everything so much.

 

[truthseeker72]

I don't think INTP's are particularly motivated by the traditional markers of success-money, power, and fame. I always preferred to view those perks as by-products of discovering new insights and truths, not the goals themselves.

 

[Tyria]

Does anyone else like new things a lot? I get energized by new ideas and new things... not sure if it is a trait or not.

-loves new things
-loves to think about how to make things better
-likes to optimize inefficient systems
-hates inefficiency/wastefulness

 

[Red Mage]

I don't think INTP's are particularly motivated by the traditional markers of success-money, power, and fame. I always preferred to view those perks as by-products of discovering new insights and truths, not the goals themselves.

I want those things, I just don't want to have to do the work to get them.

Does anyone else like new things a lot? I get energized by new ideas and new things... not sure if it is a trait or not.

-loves new things
-loves to think about how to make things better
-likes to optimize inefficient systems
-hates inefficiency/wastefulness

Sounds INTJ to me.

 

[Tyria]

Just things about me, does not have to do with MBTI.

I like working with those things because they start to lose the essence of what they are if I concentrate long enough... just about everything I can think of in life reminds me of some sort of system (from our genes to how birds fly in circles to music and everything in between). If we can learn to understand systems (and communicate our understanding), then we can make them better. Just a little thing that I like to do I guess.

I also like:
-people (gasp)
-watching night come over where I live
-being around others (even if their walk of life is different from mine)
-being at sports games

I am close on several parts of the MBTI, so I'm not suprised that my interests have me in different categories.

 

[Red Mage]

I didn't mean to imply you were INTJ. Just saying they're INTJ characteristics that, as far as I am aware, most INTPs don't share.

 

[Agent Intellect]

thinking about how to make things better is something i do a lot. video games, for instance, i often think of all sorts of content that i would add if i had that power.

 

[Beat Mango]

I can relate very much to all those things you said CK.

 

[Tyria]

*laughing* It's alright, none of the personality types are bad

I am somewhat curious though.... I wonder if I share traits with the INTP type as well. I probably do, but I'm tired and have to get up early tomorrow. I'll have to look over this thread and other INTP stuff tomorrow.

 

[Beat Mango]

Or we'd like to think so You've got an IQ of 170 or something ridiculous so I suspect that speed might be personal to you rather than universal to INTPs!!

Haha - I'd be surprised if its actually 170 now though. I took the test when I was 10 which was around my academic peak so its probably a bit skewed.

 

[Beat Mango]

*laughing* It's alright, none of the personality types are bad

I am somewhat curious though.... I wonder if I share traits with the INTP type as well. I probably do, but I'm tired and have to get up early tomorrow. I'll have to look over this thread and other INTP stuff tomorrow.

I assumed you were INTP?? Ah I can't keep up anymore...

 

[Tyria]

I assumed you were INTP?? Ah I can't keep up anymore...

I am an INXX. Not sure about the last two since they are both close to each other. Depends on what is going on and the situation I guess. MBTI is a funny thing...

I like your new avatar btw... I feel a desire to eat some fruit

 

[Concojones]

Does anyone else like new things a lot? I get energized by new ideas and new things... not sure if it is a trait or not.

-loves new things
-loves to think about how to make things better
-likes to optimize inefficient systems
-hates inefficiency/wastefulness

Welcome aboard, bro'

An example: most people dream of a huge mansion, I dream of small. As in: as small as possible. As small a design as my creativity will allow it to be (low maintenance).

I don't know how old you are, but when choosing a career, you might want to have a look at strategy consulting. Hard work though.

 

[snowqueen]

Does anyone else like new things a lot? I get energized by new ideas and new things... not sure if it is a trait or not.

-loves new things
-loves to think about how to make things better
-likes to optimize inefficient systems
-hates inefficiency/wastefulness

Yes I think about all of these things and love to discuss them but rarely get energised enough to do anything about it - but when I'm in a team I can inspire others to do things about it. If it involves something that matters a lot to me then I will put my ideas into action and create better systems. For example, I took over a Master's programme where the administration systems were appalling. I told the person I took over from that the first thing I would be doing was to get the administrator to sort them out. My predecessor said that she thought I should get to know the students first (she's INFP at a guess). Obviously I ignored her and spent a week reorganising all the systems - but my motivation is so I never have to pay attention to them again and can get on with things that are much more interesting!!

 

[QSR]

Does anyone else like new things a lot? I get energized by new ideas and new things... not sure if it is a trait or not.

-loves new things
-loves to think about how to make things better
-likes to optimize inefficient systems
-hates inefficiency/wastefulness

I'm with you 100% on this (and you can see how close I am to being a J.)

I'm actually trying to become a sort of efficiency consultant. In my previous work, I could point out flaws in systems, but I think the work was simply too detail-oriented for my personality. I need to have my hands in many different places at once to keep myself interested, and not so focused on a single aspect of something trying to find bugs.

If you love efficiency, you should read about the Toyota Production System (aka Lean manufacturing.) Several books have been published about it in recent years. How Toyota Became #1 is a good starter.

I really think our unique ability to understand complicated concepts and apply knowledge in an uncolored and constantly questioning way are very valuable to industry fwiw.

 

[Tyria]

I've chosen a career in healthcare (odd since efficiency is not high), but I really enjoy using computers and robotics to help people. I am not for taking the human element out of medicine (such as critical thinking), but many of the other jobs are done so much better by machines. Humans have to manage the machines of course, but the machines can free up more time for interaction between health personnel and patients (depends on how you feel about this as to whether it is a good or bad thing).

I'm also interested in nanotechnology/nanomedicine (very small stuff) and how it could change healthcare. Silencing RNA and other advances could also change the fundamentals of medicine; I hope people and technology can keep up and make these things a reality.