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Personality disorders and the MBTI

Joined
Nov 3, 2015
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#1
I'm only half not serious.
This is just an exploration of trait similarities.

INTP_

Schizoid - loner, socially withdrawn, inter-personally cold, aloof, can be hostile, few social connections outside of the family, unemotional

INTJ_

Borderline - moody, unpredictable, rageful, psychotic
Paranoid - mistrustful, validates inner perceptions, persecutory delusions
Narcissistic - grandiose, arrogant, haughty, uses projection

INFP_

Schizotypal - odd, eccentric, vulnerable, high openness, peculiar speech and dress, magical thinking
Borderline - moody, high openness, fears rejection, lacks stable identity

INFJ_

Paranoid - persecutory delusions, mistrust/condemnation, judgmental
Schizotypal - magical thinking, eccentric, ideas of reference
Histrionic - attention seeking, dramatic, moody

ENTP_

Schizotypal - odd/eccentric, can be hostile, acute discomfort with relationships, very high openness
Antisocial - lacks empathy, aggressive, inconsiderate of others' rights
Narcissistic - grandiose, arrogant, argumentative, over-confident, vulnerable to criticism

ENTJ_

Obsessive Compulsive - Controlling, domineering, selectively close minded
Narcissistic - arrogant, condescending
Antisocial - unempathetic, violates others' rights, hostile

ISTJ_

Obsessive Compulsive - Excessive insistence on rigid procedures, loathes innovation, rejects inconsistencies, dogmatic, domineering, close minded, perfectionistic, narrow-minded

ESTP_

Antisocial - proneness to boredom, need for stimulation, dominant, hostile, aggressive

ISTP_

Schizoid - see INTP*

ISFP_

Avoidant - lacks confidence
Narcissistic - unwarranted self-importance, need for admiration

ENFP_

Histrionic - attention seeking, vulnerable, high extroversion,

ESFP_

Histrionic - see ENFP*


--- Notes/Observations ---

Worthwhile to note that INxx types are the most similar to most mental illnesses, trait wise. Perhaps these individuals are the most susceptible as well.

High extroversion acts as a kind of buffer against mental illness, with the exception of illnesses characterized by extreme extroversion, such as HPD.

Intuition types share more similarities overall.

Missing suitable comparisons for some of the Cluster C PDs: Avoidant, Dependent... with the exception of the OCPD/ISTJ match up.
 
Joined
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#2
Surprisingly good.

Symptoms copy-pasted or kinda freewheeling?

I'd add dependent to ISFJ.

I'd add avoidant to the xxTP's.
 
Joined
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#3
Surprisingly good.

Symptoms copy-pasted or kinda freewheeling?

I'd add dependent to ISFJ.

I'd add avoidant to the xxTP's.
Freewheeling, naturally.

Thanks ♥

Dependent has most definitely been added to ISFJ.

Avoidant is kind of a wild card, seems to fit in the I _ _ P camp in general.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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#4
It seems you forgot to mention that ESFJ are the ideal human beings next to which all other types seem to be out of order, as described by those diagnoses. If you disagree your soul will be disconnected from the matrix immediately.

Personality disorders are originally accidents that happen during certain episodes of development. Each developmental transition, from stage to stage, consists of three steps, all of which can go wrong, resulting in partial developmental arrest, shadows and suffering. Since by definition a type grows through all stages of development, each type can run into 'similar' or 'identical' problems, if the recognition of those problems is sufficiently abstracted. The DSM is not necessarily sufficiently abstracted to fully differentiate between types and disorders, but this is most likely a fault and the consequence is that certain disorders will not be recognized in certain individuals, even though they have occurred.
 
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#5
It seems you forgot to mention that ESFJ are the ideal human beings next to which all other types seem to be out of order, as described by those diagnoses. If you disagree your soul will be disconnected from the matrix immediately.
Well, in one sense, ESFJ may be the representative of a normalized personality. In my experience I've noticed that many comments that begin with "Normal people ..." typically refer to the ESFJ archetype.

Personality disorders are originally accidents that happen during certain episodes of development. Each developmental transition, from stage to stage, consists of three steps, all of which can go wrong, resulting in partial developmental arrest, shadows and suffering. Since by definition a type grows through all stages of development, each type can run into 'similar' or 'identical' problems, if the recognition of those problems is sufficiently abstracted
Could you please elaborate on this?

The DSM is not necessarily sufficiently abstracted to fully differentiate between types and disorders, but this is most likely a fault and the consequence is that certain disorders will not be recognized in certain individuals, even though they have occurred.
A valuable insight Nanook, thanks. Really gets to the core of what I'm trying to portray... traits v. disorders notwithstanding of course.
 
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#6
Yea, I'd add avoidant to INTPS.. but as far as generalisations go, good job.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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#7
the three steps, each of which can go wrong, are, if i remember correctly 1) differentiation between this stage and the next is not achieved, which, i believe, implies that development is fully arrested at this point. 2) identification with the new stage is not achieved. this implies that the self feels tormented by the emergence of the next stage, much like by a super ego. 3) separation from the previous stage is not fully achieved. this means dissociated subpersonalities continue to exist and act out patterns from the previous stage.

my understanding of this is shaky, i could be wrong.

in regards to the idea of a fully arrested development we have to keep in mind that this is referring to the development of the self system, not that of all lines of intelligence.

this is a gross visualisation of the stages.

http://i.imgur.com/EijTfRJ.jpg

albeit it provides little to no insight into the nature of the early stages that are responsible for all the pathologies listed here.


i copy a few bits from

Collected Works of Ken Wilber, Volume 4: Ken Wilber: 9781590303221: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TNua1mjpL.@@AMEPARAM@@41TNua1mjpL

Transformations of Consciousness: Conventional and Contemplative Perspectives On Development (New Science Library): Ken Wilber, Jack Engler, Daniel P. Brown: 9780394742021: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FC46CD56L.@@AMEPARAM@@41FC46CD56L)





i probably should reread this book :/ fucking dementia.

fulcrum 1 (sensori physical development)
autistic psychosis (1st month)
symbiotic infantile psychoses (1-5 months)
most adult schizophrenia
depressive psychoses

fulcrum 2 (phantasmic emotional development)
a) narcicistic PD
b) borderline PD

fulcrum 3

a) borderline neuroses
b) psychoneuroses (neurotix anxiety or depression, obsessive compulsive, phobias, hysteria,hypochondria)

fulcrum 4 script pathologies (neuroses)
fulcrum 5 identity neurosis
fulcrum 6 existential pathology
...

(the mainstream is unaware of particular forms of disorders at 4, 5 and 6 - the terminology used for such problems is extremely inconsistent)
 

Animekitty

World A.I. transfomantion is Near
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#8
fulcrum 3
a) borderline neuroses
b) psychoneuroses (neurotix anxiety or depression, obsessive compulsive, phobias, hysteria,hypochondria)
I think I am past this as a passive feeling.

fulcrum 4 script pathologies (neuroses)
fulcrum 5 identity neurosis
fulcrum 6 existential pathology
For number 5 I keep going between whether I am The Antichrist of the second coming of Jesus. 4 just makes me think of all the negative and positive that go to 5. As for 6 Death does not scare me, pain does which goes to 3.

A few months ago I saw a vision brought on from the burning of my cognitive dissonance. (Tertiary Extroverted Intuition amplified the biblical connections)

Joel 2:28
"And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.


Talking to my sister a few minutes ago I told her that I like to click the buttons in windows 10 because objects inside the computer have no mass. I have experienced weightlessness before and it happened when my mind was clear. I want to be light as a feather like the objects inside the computer.
 
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#9
No major disagreements, nice stuff. Half serious is best level of serious for discussion.

Not sure about histrionic on INFJ, it sort of fits... but not quite. INFJs aren't that theatrical and outgoing. Feels like there should be something else to pin on them.

Btw there is a passive aggressive personality disorder in DSMV IV, so you can pin that on INTPs as well, and probably on quite a few other types.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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#10
being light as a feather, denying the body, have i mentioned failing to integrate the earlier stages? it's one of those steps that can go wrong. my description of those three was a bit wrong. i shall fix this tomorrow.
 
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#11
u must stop thinking in stages, and embrace the flux, the way you conceptualize the human psyche is by assigning an artificial morphology to vague notions and concepts in order to make them discrete, concrete and convincing, but by doing so they are also rendered in a false guise of rigidness hiding their approximative nature, thus they resist questioning, for any adjustments will have to at least partially shatter the morphology thereby robbing the concepts of the aforementioned qualities and so they hinder progress, their appeal is but a phantom manifestation of your te; when you reach the next stage in your personal development you will realize there are no stages and learn to perceive the permeating continuum of existence

if you disagree you are istj :elephant:
 

Alias

empirical miracle
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#12
We've forgotten ENFJs, it seems. Maybe a mix of histrionic and borderline.
 
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#13
u must stop thinking in stages, and embrace the flux, the way you conceptualize the human psyche is by assigning an artificial morphology to vague notions and concepts in order to make them discrete, concrete and convincing, but by doing so they are also rendered in a false guise of rigidness hiding their approximative nature, thus they resist questioning, for any adjustments will have to at least partially shatter the morphology thereby robbing the concepts of the aforementioned qualities and so they hinder progress, their appeal is but a phantom manifestation of your te; when you reach the next stage in your personal development you will realize there are no stages and learn to perceive the permeating continuum of existence

if you disagree you are istj :elephant:
That's the perfect balance between dry analytical rebuttal and frenzied false prophecy.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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#14
*goes and reads ISTJ description*

in case there was anything serious about your arguments, Bashar, i'd respond that the analytical language of the framework may seem rigid to the reader but does not imply anything about what the author sees in the eye of his imagination. you wouldn't say that a person who describes chocolate and shit as brown can't tell the difference between both or that colors should be abandoned because they are a rigid one dimensional classification.
 
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#15
fulcrum 1 (sensori physical development)

autistic psychosis (1st month)
symbiotic infantile psychoses (1-5 months)
most adult schizophrenia
depressive psychoses
fulcrum 2 (phantasmic emotional development)

a) narcicistic PD
b) borderline PD
fulcrum 3

a) borderline neuroses
b) psychoneuroses (neurotix anxiety or depression, obsessive compulsive, phobias, hysteria,hypochondria)
fulcrum 4 script pathologies (neuroses)
fulcrum 5 identity neurosis
fulcrum 6 existential pathology
...

(the mainstream is unaware of particular forms of disorders at 4, 5 and 6 - the terminology used for such problems is extremely inconsistent)
[bimg]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d6/5b/f7/d65bf7a9c5d20ae304a8c236ee901dd4.jpg[/bimg]

That's been an engaging way to look at the various historical theories on personality development all kind of unified into one. Bears a strong resemblance to each of the basics but really gets to the point.

Not for the faint of heart though.
Least of all the ones who fear it.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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#16
"At each fulcrum, the self identifies (normal preservation) with the corresponding basic structure, and thus is initially fused with, or undifferentiated from, that structure and its phenomenal objects. This is followed by a period of separation-differentiation (normal negation), wherein the self-system or self-structure learns to differentiate itself from both the objects of that level and the subject of the previous level (that is, it transcends its previous and exclusive subjective identification with the previous and lower basic structure). If at any fulcrum there is morbid preservation (fixation) or morbid negation (splitting, dissociation, repression), a characteristic pathology emerges, marked by the level of structural organization at which the lesion occurs. " Ken Wilber, Collected Works Vol. 4, page 107.
 
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#18
It does seem certain personality traits make people more prone to developing personality disorders. And even if a type resembles a personality disorder it doesn't mean they meet the criteria to be diagnosed with that disorder.
I would add avoidant to INFJ, Borderline to ISFP, and put obsessive compulsive under ESTJ.


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#19
It does seem certain personality traits make people more prone to developing personality disorders. And even if a type resembles a personality disorder it doesn't mean they meet the criteria to be diagnosed with that disorder.
I would add avoidant to INFJ, Borderline to ISFP, and put obsessive compulsive under ESTJ.

A really good choice with OCPD under ESTJ
Surprised borderline wasn't already under isfp, to be honest. Given the amount of effort the op took you would think that this very obvious choice should have made the first draft.
 

QuickTwist

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#20
Ofc I didn't see what I was diagnosed with...

In any case, this is shoddily done. Sounds like someone has been reading too much pop psychology.
 
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#21

QuickTwist

Soothsayer
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#22
Thanks, you have no idea what I am talking about.
 

Yellow

for the glory of satan
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#23
In any case, this is shoddily done. Sounds like someone has been reading too much pop psychology.
... and we're finally on the same page about something.

---

Some people in the field are suggesting that Personality Disorders aren't traditional illnesses, but something to be addressed by trauma-informed care. It's something we've been skirting around for quite a while, especially since knowing that many of them are completely unresponsive to pharmaceutical intervention.

For example, there's a lot of buzz about Borderline being caused by perceived abandonment by at least one primary caretaker in early childhood. It seems too simple, but since I've never met an exception to this hypothesis, I'm in no position to argue.

Similarly, OCPD is frequently associated with an insecure upbringing, where, in early childhood, the person believed that minor mistakes would result disproportionately negative consequences.

If we were to just accept the idea that at least some PDs stem from early childhood trauma, then we would have to look at this cognitively. This form of trauma physically inhibits the development of the frontal cortex. When cortisol levels rise in a developing brain, higher functions cease, and survival instincts heighten. Imagine if a child under 6 (when half the growth should be complete) had spent just 10% of his life in "survival mode": That's an enormous gap. That's assuming all else was equal, which it rarely is.

The point is, these people have a variety of personality traits, but those traits are sometimes underdeveloped, or overshadowed by their survival behaviors.
 
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