# past, present , future

#### sushi

##### Active Member
past, present , future (direction of time)

in the flow of time, does present become past or does the present become future?

the most common conception now is that past--> present--> future

but some people say present becomes past.
then it would be future--> present--> past

according do you, what do you think the present becomes?

what would be flow of time and how would you arrange these three?

what would be the most logical arrangement?

#### Animekitty

##### (adopted potato) INFP - Dio
(time loops)

present -> future -> past -> present

#### Cheeseumpuffs

##### Proudly A Sheeple Since 2015
lol that's just semantics. Wordplay, if you will.

I suppose the most sensical answer would be that you (or anyone or any object) progress through time in a past--> present--> future direction while these silly notions of time progress future--> present--> past.

It's kind of a dumb question, though, because from the outset the meaning of "become" (in the sense of "the present becomes the past") carries a different implicit contextual meaning for the two possibilities you've presented.

#### sushi

##### Active Member
(time loops)

present -> future -> past -> present
I kind of agree with this.

lol that's just semantics. Wordplay, if you will.

I suppose the most sensical answer would be that you (or anyone or any object) progress through time in a past--> present--> future direction while these silly notions of time progress future--> present--> past.

It's kind of a dumb question, though, because from the outset the meaning of "become" (in the sense of "the present becomes the past") carries a different implicit contextual meaning for the two possibilities you've presented.
no, its either the present moves to future, or present moves to past.

it can't be both. or you can say its unecessary to have these three distinguishments. implying there is no past or future.

##### think again losers
If you define the present as the directly observable time, then it stays the present. The present moves gradually forward through time.

If you define the present as the particular point in causality that is occurring now, then the present becomes the past, and the future becomes the present.

I don't think the present ever becomes the future unless you're moving backwards through time. The future can become the present as explained above, but that's not the same?

I don't think it's a dumb question.

#### sushi

##### Active Member
If you define the present as the directly observable time, then it stays the present. The present moves gradually forward through time.

If you define the present as the particular point in causality that is occurring now, then the present becomes the past, and the future becomes the present.

I don't think the present ever becomes the future unless you're moving backwards through time. The future can become the present as explained above, but that's not the same?

I don't think it's a dumb question.
so time becomes future, and present moves to history?

or time becomes history, and present moves to future?

#### Nymus Anon

##### AnoNymus
The present always remains what is happening right now, the past is a collection of all the presents that have already happened and are now gone and no longer the present, the future is a collection of presents, holding everything that will happen, waiting to happen once we are done with the current presents.

The past is gone, the present is here and now, and the future is out there waiting for us.

#### Artsu Tharaz

##### Resident Resident
past and future exist as one, which is called the present. they are both uncertain.

in the flow of time, the experiencer of the present moves to the future.

##### -Ephesians4;20
Only Now' Everything else is relative,

#### sushi

##### Active Member
present becomes future, future becomes past (history)

that is my theory as according to kitty

whether it is loop is unknown

#### DexterMaster

##### Redshirt
Re: past, present , future (direction of time)

I think as the events and "time" happens even if we are alive or not, the most logical flow of time would be future, present then past, as everything that has to happens ( future) won't happens until the present inmediate of it, it's like having the future just like 0,01 before present then all becomes a memory which is the past then you must keep on the loop, which would be something like this, future - present- past- future-past-present-past or I think so as you think about eventual events that may occur in the future according to your past experiences and then it becomes the present then again a memory and we start again on future, past, present loop for the rest of our life in something we know until something new in the present change our way to see the past, its a really hard question, not a dumb one to be honest like others said, there's a lot to discuss on this.

Enviado desde mi D6603 mediante Tapatalk

#### Haim

##### Worlds creator

time is like "x" or "y" or "z" in a multi-dimensional complex equation.

If I want a more human answer then past,present,feature is just a result of our viewpoint, like if you are inside a moving car from your prescriptive the car does not move, while for someone outside the car the can are moving fast, yet the speed of the car is not different.

If I want the actual answer, it that there is just universe(or one multiverse), one data that keep on changing.

#### Blarraun

##### straightedgy
Time is a human concept, it doesn't exist objectively and independently.

Any instantiation of consciousness will perceive a different, though often analogous, concept of it. It is used to subdivide memories and experiences into discrete, orderly chains of events.

#### Pizzabeak

##### Heyoka
Past becomes future in the flow of time, the present is the experiencing of this. Semantically you can say future becomes the past because of how linear transitions work but it only does in a way akin to how the present becomes the past. While largely a human construct time will still exist in the natural processes of things.
The present becomes the past but when we're in the present, it's the future. Take a three minute song. You listen to it, then it's in the past. Before you listen to it you will have, which will have been a future event. Once you do, it was the future. Even if it's thousands years in the future it's the same. Past becomes future, although with quantum uncertainty the whole thing one unknown and uncertain, so it depends. It becomes the future but when you say it it's in the same way unavailable as the future is. Of course we as humans can only look at it that way. The future becomes the present because the present becomes the future. It doesn't necessarily flow backward in time. It's all available and the archetypes for time are in the present, that's why the future is the past. It's what PKD meant when he said he saw the Ancient Rome days of Christianity layered over reality, particularly in Radio Free Albemuth. Our brains are wired to filter it out. The basis for actual existence is in the now.

#### Architect

##### Professional INTP
Don't forget the pluperfect, the past as played out in the future.

#### Rixus

##### I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
Well, first of all, what exactly is time? People have been saying to me for years that time doesn't really exist. It is but a concept we have created that no other life form lives by. We invented clocks and labelled time with hours to organise our day. But surely that's just a measurement of something that already exists? We do exist in a 4 dimensional space, don't we? You can measure something by it's first 3 obvious dimensions and by it's measurement in time? A dimensions that, like the other 3, is ever expanding as the universe spreads out across both space and time? And you can use changes over time to chart courses between objects and objectives? But we know that if we do this, we can see discrepancies between the objects from the perspectives of the observer and the traveller - and this becomes ever more apparent across larger distances and higher speeds in an effect we call temporal dilation. What then are we witnessing? The passage of time or the slow and inconsistent degradation of particles? The entropy of the universe. Whatever it is, we clearly see this effect around us and we call it time.

What do philosophers mean when they say no other animal lives by the concept of time as we do? They live by day and night as we do. Psychologically, I've read that animals like dogs are unable to connect cause and effect over time on the same level that we do. But isn't that just because we think deeper about a concept that they understand on a more simplistic level?

But that still doesn't answer the question. How do we think about this time thing in a way that differs from other animals? I can't say I truly understand how a dog's brain functions, or even other peoples', but do I know how my brain does it. The first existence of an object or event in our 4 dimensional reality is in my mind - it will exist or occur and I think about it. Unless I'm unaware of it, obviously, but it is still going to exist primarily. Then it occurs in the present. Finally, it has past behind our linear perspective and becomes the past. It then exists in the past for as long as memory of it does. So the simple answer, in my opinion, is future-present-past. Our brains work in the opposite way to linear time motion in order to allow us to continue forward and analyse our past, only in order to continue to plan the future and move forward.

#### sushi

##### Active Member
time is (clock, space, motion) which is how it is measured

the clock can move forward, backward, or stop, but time can't

reality this is different

if clock=stop it means time stop.
if clock moves forward, future
if clock moves backward, past

Past becomes future in the flow of time, the present is the experiencing of this. Semantically you can say future becomes the past because of how linear transitions work but it only does in a way akin to how the present becomes the past. While largely a human construct time will still exist in the natural processes of things.
The present becomes the past but when we're in the present, it's the future. Take a three minute song. You listen to it, then it's in the past. Before you listen to it you will have, which will have been a future event. Once you do, it was the future. Even if it's thousands years in the future it's the same. Past becomes future, although with quantum uncertainty the whole thing one unknown and uncertain, so it depends. It becomes the future but when you say it it's in the same way unavailable as the future is. Of course we as humans can only look at it that way. The future becomes the present because the present becomes the future. It doesn't necessarily flow backward in time. It's all available and the archetypes for time are in the present, that's why the future is the past. It's what PKD meant when he said he saw the Ancient Rome days of Christianity layered over reality, particularly in Radio Free Albemuth. Our brains are wired to filter it out. The basis for actual existence is in the now.
no present becomes future

#### Cognisant

##### Prolific Member
Out of all possible realities why does only the one in which the series of events that lead me to typing the character # in this post exist?

Theory One
There's some reason why only this reality could exist therefore what we experience as time is utterly deterministic (just another dimension like the three spatial dimensions) and our experience of time's flow is just a subjective illusion as everything that will happen and has happened exists simultaneously in the fourth dimension.

Theory Two
This isn't the only reality, because that would be stupid, in which case there's the fifth dimension of possibility in which all possible outcomes exist simultaneously in a no less static deterministic state as in theory one.

Theory Three
The universe is not deterministic, all bets are off.

#### Artsu Tharaz

##### Resident Resident
Out of all possible realities why does only the one in which the series of events that lead me to typing the character # in this post exist?

Theory One
There's some reason why only this reality could exist therefore what we experience as time is utterly deterministic (just another dimension like the three spatial dimensions) and our experience of time's flow is just a subjective illusion as everything that will happen and has happened exists simultaneously in the fourth dimension.

Theory Two
This isn't the only reality, because that would be stupid, in which case there's the fifth dimension of possibility in which all possible outcomes exist simultaneously in a no less static deterministic state as in theory one.

Theory Three
The universe is not deterministic, all bets are off.
There is a deterministic and non-deterministic aspect of the world. Essentially, determinism results from one mind's attempt to interact with a greater world with a greater mind. It just says that, even if everything is free, we only control a small portion of it, and the rest is given to us.

Yes time is complex and multiple dimensions of reality exist, but we need only look at our own experience to understand the way in which freedom exists - the fact that we talk about it at all is suggestive that it truly exists on a fundamental level due to fractals. But we can just look at what is around us and recognise that our consciousness means that we have some degree of freedom, or else we would not be conscious, or so I believe.

#### air.ee.yell

##### Redshirt
Re: past, present , future (direction of time)

A lot of people say that the future is now. And that now will become a moment of history. Wouldn't that mean that the future is now the past? My previous future is now, which as each second ticks by, is essentially the past.

#### Cognisant

##### Prolific Member
But we can just look at what is around us and recognise that our consciousness means that we have some degree of freedom, or else we would not be conscious, or so I believe.
Your beliefs are synaptic connections in your meat brain, but that's complicated and scary so by all means continue living with your childish belief that you're more than matter and chemistry.

#### Rixus

##### I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
Do you ever wonder if time truly has to be the 4th dimension? We witness time unfolding as it expands along with the first 3 visible dimensions. But what if there are others? Imagine beings that existed within a 2 dimensional world. What would they think if you placed your hand within their world made a fist? Would they have words to describe how strange it would appear as your hand contorted in the strange new way? Would they even be able to see or comprehend the strangeness of it? What if there are others that we simply cannot comprehend with our 3 dimensional minds? What if to some strange aliens time is the 5th, 6th or even the 7th dimension and they comprehend physical shapes in some unknown level of space?

#### Seteleechete

##### Together forever
Silina: Past -> Present -> Future -> timetravel -> alternate/new past based on existing timeline -> ect.

The original past would need to happen for the "new" past to exist.

#### Pizzabeak

##### Heyoka
Do you ever wonder if time truly has to be the 4th dimension?
It's mostly just a figure of speech as there are a few different fourth dimensions. In physics time was one, but there are fourth spatial dimensions too, the way in which space is curved. There could even be other dimensions too. So there just wouldn't be four dimensions but usually more as well.
We witness time unfolding as it expands along with the first 3 visible dimensions. But what if there are others? Imagine beings that existed within a 2 dimensional world. What would they think if you placed your hand within their world made a fist? Would they have words to describe how strange it would appear as your hand contorted in the strange new way? Would they even be able to see or comprehend the strangeness of it?
Yet what does it imply? The sad truth is, there is no second dimension with flat creatures or beings with consciousness, it was just a thought experiment. If there is, we don't have access to it. But there still could be four dimensional beings since we aren't able to perceive it, only the shadows reflected in our three dimensions. It doesn't mean anything.
So what would they think, what would they see? Vague two dimensional shapes? What would we see if the same happened to us? What exactly, would the strangeness be?
What if there are others that we simply cannot comprehend with our 3 dimensional minds? What if to some strange aliens time is the 5th, 6th or even the 7th dimension and they comprehend physical shapes in some unknown level of space?
Who knows if it keeps going. It's where would they be. The closest thing is putting your finger toward some microbes or something like an ant, and seeing what it is to them. But it doesn't work. There are simply other realms where souls exist, but would it require more dimensions. It might work like that. The other dimensions could just be where other universes are, accounting for the "multiverse" theory of cosmology.

String theory is probably wrong but its dimensions are just space curved into tiny folds. There wouldn't necessarily be any beings in those. But maybe there are? I think, it might be something else. Or we just plain don't know how to differentiate and confirm the variety of religious ideas. Some also think gods or aliens inhabit the fourth dimension. It's a moot concept. The universe is a fractal so that accounts for all its dimensions and alien like phenomena as well.

#### sushi

##### Active Member
To understand dimensions, The most simplified model is relationship between two points. (as in a line segment with two points)

normally the relationship between two points on a piece of paper is distance.

but in real world, the relationship between two points also involves time and distance.

(as to probabilistic or predetermined, i think the beginning and end points of everything are set, but what happens in between is variable and can permutate)

#### INTPWolf

##### Contemplating reality, one script at a time
awe man my internet shut out on me and when i hit post it redirected to GC(FUKIN)I
And i lost my perfect analogy to argue both sides of the argument

But it boiled down to

Logical left brain male= Past->present->future
Emotional right brain female= Past<-present<-future

ill deal with this later when i feel inspired again

#### AndyC

##### Hm?
I'm worried what I'm going to write is going to be heavily criticized because it hasn't been said despite it being such a popular conception. eh... Alright. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is what gives us the 'flow of time' the ability to differentiate between past and future. The present determines the next instant, it does not 'become' the next instant.
I don't know how time could be the 4th dimension, I'm pretty sure that's just not right and a myth that is used to make sense of various 'directions' unless you describe it in terms of relativity, i.e. the nature by which space contracts and expands. My Ne is going crazy so I should stop.
I'm pretty much a layman and haven't gone to a single class or read more than an introduction to physics. pfft.

#### Niclmaki

##### Disturber of the Peace
Present -> Present -> Present

Yeah pretty much

#### sushi

##### Active Member
update: not sure

Time+ length--> distance

or time+distance--> length

length = length of time such seconds, hrs, weeks, years, eternity

also it seems time inevitably becomes length/distance given how the youtube red bar works when a video is played.

when a day passes, the earth completes a rotation, or when the clock ticks and changes position is another example of how time becomes distance.

#### Artsu Tharaz

##### Resident Resident
update: not sure

Time+ length--> distance

or time+distance--> length

length = length of time such seconds, hrs, weeks, years, eternity

also it seems time inevitably becomes length/distance given how the youtube red bar works when a video is played.

when a day passes, the earth completes a rotation, or when the clock ticks and changes position is another example of how time becomes distance.
Velocity is the term for the link between time and distance, and as we now know, the speed of light is a constant, thus light provides a basis for spacetime. There is some speculation about information that can travel faster than the speed of light, such as quantum entanglement.

And the speed of light has something to say about past, present and future: time changes in its measurement depending on how fast you are going, and if you do the maths on this, it ends up showing that there are certain events that if separated by a long enough distance cannot be said to have come after or before each other, because there was no way for either event to have had any influence on the other. So having an influence on something is what makes time able to be understood. If something influenced you, it came before you.

But then there's the multiverse hypothesis, or similar interpretations, and if my understanding is correct, this means that it is as if we can be influenced by the future as well. Except, it is not the true future, but a projection of the future contained in another time line. Also, from what I remember, scientific experiments have created a beam of light which went back in time. Presumably, the causality remains in tact during this time travel, perhaps because the light could not influence its own creation.

#### sushi

##### Active Member
this is actually pretty simple question if you have a driver license, or have experience driving a car.

But I don't yet, so i have simulate myself driving a car in head.

the present moves to future, and time moves to the past.

or

(the present moves to past, and time moves the future, which seems untrue)

#### Minute Squirrel

##### magician
I'm pretty sure time doesn't move. The past, present, and future are all just names we gave for the transformations matter experience in the domain we call time.

#### sushi

##### Active Member
I'm pretty sure time doesn't move. The past, present, and future are all just names we gave for the transformations matter experience in the domain we call time.
are you saying time is a matter of conscious experience , and in reality it does not exist?

#### sushi

##### Active Member
position + time--> future (where as posiion represent the present)

or postion + time--> past

or position+ future--> past

(or postion+ past--> future) this seems wrong

#### Artsu Tharaz

##### Resident Resident
position + time--> future (where as posiion represent the present)

or postion + time--> past

or position+ future--> past

(or postion+ past--> future) this seems wrong
future, and the past in a different kind of way, are not determined based on where one is but are approximated by it

do we need to know the direction of movement or can we tell with only 4-dimensional position? I think we need the average direction as well -> from the average we give a projection of past and future but actually the future will deviate from this due to randomness and free will, and can we ever really check with the past? it deviates too

--

additional thought: some say only the present is real, but actually the past and future are built into the present moment in a certain way, so we always act, whether we know it or not, with these as factors.

#### Artsu Tharaz

##### Resident Resident
future, and the past in a different kind of way, are not determined based on where one is but are approximated by it

do we need to know the direction of movement or can we tell with only 4-dimensional position? I think we need the average direction as well -> from the average we give a projection of past and future but actually the future will deviate from this due to randomness and free will, and can we ever really check with the past? it deviates too

--

additional thought: some say only the present is real, but actually the past and future are built into the present moment in a certain way, so we always act, whether we know it or not, with these as factors.
Woah, that's interesting. So, if we capture a still-frame of how reality is, but ignore the direction that each particle of that is traversing, then we could input a near-infinite myriad of possible direction-sets from that to obtain all kinds of different future, and past, projections.

I think the direction is innate though, isn't it?